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#17 UB in Olean, NY - (12/08 - 4:00pm ET)


Jeseph

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23 hours ago, UB85 said:

If you have to yell F this and F that then you’re pretty dumb bunch of fans. I didn’t go this game. But the AP article being read throughout the country prominently says  profanity-chanting fans. Beyond the obvious of it being fit only for drunkards and being vulgar Bona gets a black eye in the national press. I don’t see how you want your school known to be that way especially at a catholic university. I’m not a fan of the “you suck” chant when an opposing player fouls out either. I don’t think I’m high and mighty. Just think it’s disgusting and terribly inappropriate.  

Add the F-bomb to the list of some of the most overused words.  Iconic, homophobic (almost never used for it's true meaning), literally...

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4 minutes ago, MillenniumBull said:

“discovered the quality of our academic programs” made me laugh.  I always thought the school was bankrupt and just a cover for elaborate postal scams.  Isn’t their med program based on leaches and prayer?

They aren't terrible in terms of rankings.  Between Geneseo and New Paltz, above Niagara and one rank higher than Canisius.

Still lower ranked than my safety schools, but has some form of admission standards unlike some MAC schools.  Akron will let you in without a welding certificate.

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1 hour ago, weareub46 said:

With all of the negative exposure from Sat’s game from the student section I was glad and impressed with the memo from the UB president. I would hope most of the students and fans understand their is no place with that type of vulgarity and language at sporting events. Also I am sure there are still many who like  the one student who used the “It’s a free country and you should be able to say anything you want”, We were raised by our parents with certain rules and were always told that all of life decisions came with responsibility and accountability and to always think before you act and to treat others like you want to be treated. Sadly that has been lost in many instances in today’s world and at sporting events. Here’s hoping at our UB games we have passionate students and fans who treat others with respect and dignity. Go Bulls!!!

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Speaking of welding certificate.

So, I was probably a HS SR when the scandal broke. I vaguely remember some GR talk about Bona but couldn't tell you anything more than they had a program altering quasi academic issue.

So this week I read the wiki for the first time (cause they in my mind are kinda irrelevant and no need before this to research them) and it was one ineligible player? That was the program altering scandal? The U does that every 3 years.

It's like they built a house of sticks and when the wolf blew it down, they just retconned history to say that a hurricane hit to distract from the fact that the program was already poorly positioned for the future.

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3 hours ago, bull_trojan said:

Speaking of welding certificate.

So, I was probably a HS SR when the scandal broke. I vaguely remember some GR talk about Bona but couldn't tell you anything more than they had a program altering quasi academic issue.

So this week I read the wiki for the first time (cause they in my mind are kinda irrelevant and no need before this to research them) and it was one ineligible player? That was the program altering scandal? The U does that every 3 years.

It's like they built a house of sticks and when the wolf blew it down, they just retconned history to say that a hurricane hit to distract from the fact that the program was already poorly positioned for the future.

The scandal may have involved the enrollment of one player, but it had major repercussions throughout the university.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/04/sports/ncaabasketball/slowly-st-bonaventure-is-finding-its-way-back.html

 

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8 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:

The scandal may have involved the enrollment of one player, but it had major repercussions throughout the university.

I get that, but it was a postseason ban for the current year, and a loss of 3 scholarships. So 03-04 is sunk, 04-05 your team jumps ship and you have no recruits. but 05-06 you pick back up.

Seeing as 1) once they were on probation their program stalled and 2) the president and board was complicit with the welding certificate thing...

I'd say they probably did a lot more stuff on and across the line to support their program, and when they were forced to play it straight, their ceiling is a .500 team with a run in them once every 4 years.

Syracuse just recently had a postseason ban and lost 8 scholarships and they are still on probation, they're fine.

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1 hour ago, bull_trojan said:

I get that, but it was a postseason ban for the current year, and a loss of 3 scholarships. So 03-04 is sunk, 04-05 your team jumps ship and you have no recruits. but 05-06 you pick back up.

Seeing as 1) once they were on probation their program stalled and 2) the president and board was complicit with the welding certificate thing...

I'd say they probably did a lot more stuff on and across the line to support their program, and when they were forced to play it straight, their ceiling is a .500 team with a run in them once every 4 years.

I don't think that's the case.  I am pretty sure Jimmy Barron ran a clean ship.  He took over a struggling program at Bonas in the early 90s and didn't win a conference game in his first year.   Turned them into a regular NIT team and took them to an NCAA tournament where they nearly knocked off Kentucky.   

It seem like you think they were a world beater in those days before the scandal.  They were good team but never close to winning the conference.  They were right about where they have been the last few years. 

Anyway, the problem seemed to come after Barron was hired away to Rhode Island and Bonas hired Jan van Breda Kolff to replace him.  The new coach then hired some no name with limited coaching experience to be his assistant coach.  Then that assistant coach recruits a kid to play and when the athletic department says the kid isn't eligible, the assistant coach goes to his dad, the University President, and gets his dad to make the kid eligible even though multiple people in the athletic department told the President and the assistant coach the kid couldn't play.  

The athletic department ends up contacted the NCAA to see if they actually could play him.  They learned near the end of the season they the kid could not play and had to forfeit games.  The team had a losing record even with the kid playing. 

1 hour ago, bull_trojan said:

Syracuse just recently had a postseason ban and lost 8 scholarships and they are still on probation, they're fine.


Let's not pretend that Cuse started playing it straight. 

Edited by dutchcountry7
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2 hours ago, bull_trojan said:

I get that, but it was a postseason ban for the current year, and a loss of 3 scholarships. So 03-04 is sunk, 04-05 your team jumps ship and you have no recruits. but 05-06 you pick back up.

Seeing as 1) once they were on probation their program stalled and 2) the president and board was complicit with the welding certificate thing...

 I'd say they probably did a lot more stuff on and across the line to support their program, and when they were forced to play it straight, their ceiling is a .500 team with a run in them once every 4 years.

 Syracuse just recently had a postseason ban and lost 8 scholarships and they are still on probation, they're fine.

and the 3 scholarships were self imposed.  we talk about our clean program and the character of those who run it, but would we do that?  

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47 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

They were good team but never close to winning the conference.  They were right about where they have been the last few years. 

 

uh, where they were the last few years was finishing (tied for) 1st, 5th, and 2nd in their conference.  😄

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24 minutes ago, ed said:

and the 3 scholarships were self imposed.  we talk about our clean program and the character of those who run it, but would we do that?  

Most schools who are under investigation try to figure out what the sanctions are and self impose them before the NCAA comes down with the penalties.  Self sanctioning softens up the NCAA.

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12 minutes ago, ed said:

 

uh, where they were the last few years was finishing (tied for) 1st, 5th, and 2nd in their conference.  😄

The conference was tougher back then.  I just looked it up.  They got a bid to the NIT with a 6-10 conference record in 1998.  The A10 had 5 NCAA bids and 2 NIT bids.

They are about the same--nationally--as they were back then. 

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22 hours ago, MillenniumBull said:

“discovered the quality of our academic programs” made me laugh.  I always thought the school was bankrupt and just a cover for elaborate postal scams.  Isn’t their med program based on leaches and prayer?

The only schools in WNY who have medical schools are UB and the U of R. Anytime a school mentions a “pre-Med” program, it’s a hoot. There is no “pre-Med” program - anywhere. Medical schools in the US all have their own prerequisites  with respect to courses of study. Generally it includes a mix of courses in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and labs. Calculus is usually included as well as various other courses such as English (who would have thought). The prerequisites vary from med school to med school. 

When a journalist writes about anyone who was majoring in “pre-Med” only to abandon that study to pursue a position in pro sports, Hollywood, social work...you name it, he is simply attempting to suggest that their subject is cerebral. 

Not to disparage St Bona, but it has no med program. Nor do Colgate, Williams, or any college. 

One last thing. When anyone graduates from a medical school, he is a doctor. The road to practicing medicine, however, has merely begun. There are more hoops to jump before a doctor can practice medicine. Internship, Residency, Fellowship...it’s a long arduous road. When Obama calls the doctors greedy, I want to stick a finger down my throat.

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46 minutes ago, squire17 said:

The only schools in WNY who have medical schools are UB and the U of R. Anytime a school mentions a “pre-Med” program, it’s a hoot. There is no “pre-Med” program - anywhere. Medical schools in the US all have their own prerequisites  with respect to courses of study. Generally it includes a mix of courses in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and labs. Calculus is usually included as well as various other courses such as English (who would have thought). The prerequisites vary from med school to med school. 

 When a journalist writes about anyone who was majoring in “pre-Med” only to abandon that study to pursue a position in pro sports, Hollywood, social work...you name it, he is simply attempting to suggest that their subject is cerebral. 

 Not to disparage St Bona, but it has no med program. Nor do Colgate, Williams, or any college. 

 

i get your point - premed isn't a major (and you can be any major to go to medical school), but you're incorrect that schools don't have premed programs.  some schools have a specific program designed to prepare those who want to attend medical school, sometimes coupled with early / provisional acceptance into medical school.  

 

some googling, and here's bona's: https://www.sbu.edu/academics/pre-medicine 

 

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2 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

There is no proof of this.

I lived through 2 NCAA probations (but was not involved in either) if you're guilty you cut a plea.

Noted, being guilty isn't wrong, the infraction is wrong, acknowledging the wrong, fixing and educating is the basis of NCAA

So to say we were wrong and this is what were gonna do, is much preferred to the NCAA

Edited by bull_trojan
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3 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

It seem like you think they were a world beater in those days before the scandal.  They were good team but never close to winning the conference.  They were right about where they have been the last few years. 

 

I have no opinion on what they were pre-scandal, my point is I kept hearing SCANDAL and I was thinking something big, turns out, kinda run of the mill, and not really a big deal in most senses of college athletics (minus the President being in on the dirt, although if money is coming in, President's usually walk away so that's not that surprising either)

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1 hour ago, ed said:

 

i get your point - premed isn't a major (and you can be any major to go to medical school), but you're incorrect that schools don't have premed programs.  some schools have a specific program designed to prepare those who want to attend medical school, sometimes coupled with early / provisional acceptance into medical school.  

 

some googling, and here's bona's: https://www.sbu.edu/academics/pre-medicine 

 

I guess it’s a matter of semantics. Being accepted into a so called ‘premed’ program is no guarantee of acceptance at a US medical school. Far from it. Any high school senior, who’s interested in pursuing a career as a physician would be better served by determining what percent of a college’s graduates gain admittance to medical school rather than whether or not the college has a ‘premed’ program. Again, the medical schools are only looking at prerequisite courses and MCATs and the recommendation letters, etc. Premed programs? They mean nothing.

Edited by squire17
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I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that it's a free country and you can say whatever you want.  But that's only half of that - you also have the freedom to deal with the consequences of what you say/do.  We seem to forget that these days, in a time when "the customer is always right" has gone too far.  Like a customer who has the right to berate a waiter/waitress, but if they say anything back, that person plays the victim. 

What do you want?  You can say or act however you want, but if you want something from the people around you - respect, or to be viewed with respect, to feel like you're one of the "good guys" and be seen as such, you have to give something in return.  You have to act respectful and live by those values to get what you want.  If you proclaim a higher set of values, but don't live by them (or make honest attempts to do so), then you're a hypocrite.  I applaud their president for pointing this out.  We're all human, but that's not a reason to excuse acting out.  If you say you're a Catholic, you should be trying to act like it.

Realizing this in my 30's, I think I became a better fan.  Maybe we all realize we were never as clever as we imagined we were, and by acting like this we weren't giving it to the other team, we were making ourselves and the people around us look bad.  I realized that maybe I was the a-hole.  If you don't care, then whatever.  But if you do care, you have to consider the consequences, and what you want.  It's awfully convenient for people at places like Bona to strut around with their higher vision and values, but when they act the same as the people they compare themselves to, well then it's just "people being human."

Edited by enrique14150
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