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KJ to the U

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20 minutes ago, UB92 said:

If it was more than one player transferring and those in different situations, I'd think differently.

This is my worry however, that this is going to become a new "thing", not just for us, but for others also. If you're the backup QB or not going to get time (in any position) because you're stuck behind someone (or several), and decide to make a move in your final season in order to receive an opportunity to actually see the field, I understand it and wouldn't disagree with your choice. As a starter and all-league performer, this shouldn't be done. To me, it's a slap in the face of the school that developed you to the position that you've gotten to.

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So if KJ stayed and at next year's camp Lance said Charlie and Nunn were better and were gonna start over KJ, would you be talking about how we invested 4 years in him and how he deserves to start? No.

Nothing is guaranteed, you just want to win, that's fine, we all do, but don't drag down athletes who are just living their lives.

Like your argument is we gave him four years of training, he owes us the 5th year.

KJ would probably counter that he gave you four years of his life, battling to put this team in a better position. Now, he's taking the 5th year transfer he earned by graduating to do something for himself. He owes us nothing.

And you keep saying transfers makes us look JV. I think crying over individual players makes us look JV. You think we dont have another QB or WR on the roster...Look at Bama, Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State...they have the top QBs in the nation and back them up with even better QBs... If you're not stocking your cupboard like that (at whatever level you are at) then YOU ARE JV and that is what it is. This year we'll know if we're JV or not.

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What I don't understand is why these players feel they will have a better opportunity at a different school, particularly one that has not been a top program for quite some time. This isn't a player moving up a level from FCS or D2 to FBS where they may need to prove themselves against better competition. There are plentiful examples of MAC players, whether drafted highly or not, getting to the league and sticking in the league. KJ was already an NFL prospect because of the talent he possesses. In today's landscape, players are seen by everyone...if you are good enough, everyone knows it regardless of where you play.

I guess I just do not know what he, and many others, expect will happen once they play for a different program. NFL teams are not going to have an "Ah ha" moment if KJ has a few good performances for Miami much more so, if any, than they would if he stayed at UB. The only position I could somewhat agree with making a move like this, in certain circumstances, is QB. In my opinion, for a player like KJ, the odds are just as good that his stock may drop as they are that they will rise.

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2 hours ago, TML1000 said:

What I don't understand is why these players feel they will have a better opportunity at a different school, particularly one that has not been a top program for quite some timeThis isn't a player moving up a level from FCS or D2 to FBS where they may need to prove themselves against better competition. There are plentiful examples of MAC players, whether drafted highly or not, getting to the league and sticking in the league. KJ was already an NFL prospect because of the talent he possesses. In today's landscape, players are seen by everyone...if you are good enough, everyone knows it regardless of where you play.

I guess I just do not know what he, and many others, expect will happen once they play for a different program. NFL teams are not going to have an "Ah ha" moment if KJ has a few good performances for Miami much more so, if any, than they would if he stayed at UB. The only position I could somewhat agree with making a move like this, in certain circumstances, is QB. In my opinion, for a player like KJ, the odds are just as good that his stock may drop as they are that they will rise.

Well said, especially the bolded points. UB, in theory, could play against Miami or a comparable team in a bowl game (or set up a non-league contest against them down the road).  We shouldn't have guys who desire to leave to go to a place like Miami. It's not as if he's from Miami and wants to return home, he's from Michigan. To me, he just is saying that UB isn't good enough for him and he is showing his (now ex) teammates that is the case.

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6 hours ago, TML1000 said:

What I don't understand is why these players feel they will have a better opportunity at a different school, particularly one that has not been a top program for quite some time. This isn't a player moving up a level from FCS or D2 to FBS where they may need to prove themselves against better competition. There are plentiful examples of MAC players, whether drafted highly or not, getting to the league and sticking in the league. KJ was already an NFL prospect because of the talent he possesses. In today's landscape, players are seen by everyone...if you are good enough, everyone knows it regardless of where you play.

I guess I just do not know what he, and many others, expect will happen once they play for a different program. NFL teams are not going to have an "Ah ha" moment if KJ has a few good performances for Miami much more so, if any, than they would if he stayed at UB. The only position I could somewhat agree with making a move like this, in certain circumstances, is QB. In my opinion, for a player like KJ, the odds are just as good that his stock may drop as they are that they will rise.

I'd argue if I was KJ, I get 1 year of free grad school and 1 year competing with and against ACC players.

This tells me a lot:
1) Do I enjoy uprooting my life and learning new systems? 
2) Do I have what it takes to beat out top players at the next level for playing time?
3) Do I have what it takes to beat top defenders on the field?

If yes to #1, then going NFL with no control of my next move is OK, if no I might want to stay in grad school in south beach and keep control.
If yes to #2 & #3, then going to the NFL and fighting for a job is OK, if no, I might want to stay in grad school and try a different career.

Staying at Buffalo and dominating doesn't answer either of those 3 questions. I think some players are at their best when they are comfortable, some are best when they are challenged...

Seeing how we performed against our best opponents, a lot of our guys were probably better comfortable than challenged.

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I think too much is being made of this. It’s literally happening at every school or will soon enough.  Guys are transferring for a myriad of reasons. Some want more playing time before their college career is over forever (Hurts) and may require moving from a P5 to a G5 or FCS school,..some want to move up a level and challenge themselves, some may not like coaches or schemes where they are at,...it could be anything. But if a program puts it out there, that transferring is frowned upon and they will fight it from happening, then I bet that program will have a tough time recruiting anyone. Didn’t some big name QB just move from Georgia to Ohio State?  I think the really good QB from Eastern Washington just entered his name in the grad transfer portal. He wants more exposure I bet.

I doubt KJ has any ill will towards UB.  Like others have said, his star QB is gone, his stud WR teammate is gone, and losing some other great talent to graduation. He probably thinks it’s a great opportunity to change it up, play at a big program and spend his winter in warmth. He’s worked hard to be able to do this and get a once in a lifetime chance to play a year in the ACC against some giants in college football.

i really wish the guy well.  I hope to see him in the NFL someday repping UB. The 2019 Bulls will be fine. We have some great young players ready to break out.

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6 minutes ago, zigo230 said:

I think too much is being made of this. It’s literally happening at every school or will soon enough.  Guys are transferring for a myriad of reasons. Some want more playing time before their college career is over forever (Hurts) and may require moving from a P5 to a G5 or FCS school,..some want to move up a level and challenge themselves, some may not like coaches or schemes where they are at,...it could be anything. But if a program puts it out there, that transferring is frowned upon and they will fight it from happening, then I bet that program will have a tough time recruiting anyone. Didn’t some big name QB just move from Georgia to Ohio State?  I think the really good QB from Eastern Washington just entered his name in the grad transfer portal. He wants more exposure I bet.

I doubt KJ has any ill will towards UB.  Like others have said, his star QB is gone, his stud WR teammate is gone, and losing some other great talent to graduation. He probably thinks it’s a great opportunity to change it up, play at a big program and spend his winter in warmth. He’s worked hard to be able to do this and get a once in a lifetime chance to play a year in the ACC against some giants in college football.

i really wish the guy well.  I hope to see him in the NFL someday repping UB. The 2019 Bulls will be fine. We have some great young players ready to break out.

1-He wouldn't be repping UB, if he makes it, he'd be representing Miami.

2-Hurts is a backup QB (since Tua came along, obviously he wants a chance to show that he can play the position more and get more NFL opportunities), the "big name QB from Georgia also was playing as a backup, behind Fromm and wants to start.

Is too much being made of it, maybe. Regardless, this is a slap in the face to those in the room at UB in my opinion. The fact that this is happening at so many schools seems like a problem to the college football landscape. The "transfer portal" is said on ESPN daily and is being laughed about frequently. It's a common theme, bouncing around that has started at the high school level recently too. Everyone is "going to the league" and has a number of people in their ears telling them that.

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Did freshman KJO ask to sit out and redshirt a year, or did he do what he was told to do?  It doesn't feel right to fault someone for doing what is asked of them.

In other instances, it hasn't worked in the student's favor.  Gain 40+ pounds, play a new position, only to be let go because the next coach doesn't use that scheme.

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37 minutes ago, 121Merrimac said:

Did freshman KJO ask to sit out and redshirt a year, or did he do what he was told to do?  It doesn't feel right to fault someone for doing what is asked of them.

In other instances, it hasn't worked in the student's favor.  Gain 40+ pounds, play a new position, only to be let go because the next coach doesn't use that scheme.

Do you even understand why a coaching staff chooses to redshirt a player, because your comment seems as if you don't. He wasn't ready to play at the necessary level as a true freshman. After redshirting as a freshman, he still only had limited playing time the following year. Only recently has he developed into a higher end performer, and it was due to his extra year of training and learning of the game. Had he played that first year, he'd be done with his eligibility and surely not in a position to go to the NFL. He has one more year to continue to go on the upward tick, from which I'm sure UB had planned on it being in their huddle, not Miami's.

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38 minutes ago, skrabukes said:

...

Sure, I understand your frustration.  I even share some of it.  But, I also have empathy for the student's point of view.  Personally, I'm on the fence, and not invested enough to get worked up over it.  It's basketball season after all, so let's have some fun...

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On 1/10/2019 at 6:58 PM, skrabukes said:

 hope that you enjoyed the $200k of scholarship from UB and if somehow, some way you get drafted, on draft day, it will be "KJ Osborn from Miami". 

You act like his time at ub and him being redshirted was only for his benefit. He's put in his time and his obligation, and is moving on to what he thinks is in his best interest - best of luck to him. 

Do you get all mad when people leave a job too? All the training?! Where the loyalty st,?! Get over it. 

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In reality, both points of view are entirely understandable. KJ clearly thinks that transferring to a higher profile conference will improve his career opportunities. He has graduated and is well within his rights to make such a move. 

I won't happily cheer for him, however, in his new landing spot. KJ may feel that the move is best for him, and if so, is entitled to transfer. It is a slap in the face, however, to the school that has developed and educated him for the past four years. The covenant between school and player should be of mutual benefit. KJ was clearly not prepared to contribute as a freshman. The best move, for program and player, was to redshirt: Osborn maintains eligibility, learns the game, and grows stronger. It also ensures a fifth year of tuition free undergraduate or graduate education which is of lifelong benefit. UB earns a fifth year experienced player better ready to contribute down the line. In transferring for his senior season KJ still pockets his benefits, while UB loses out entirely on their investment.

Miami and other P5 schools further have no cause to pause when recruiting away a ready made graduate transfer from their G5 brethren. The NCAA, in order to maintain some semblance of a level playing field, needs to address the situation. Some form of compensatory transfer of scholarship(s) from the recipient institution to the donor, so to speak, seems most fair. Miami wants a polished 5th year starter from Buffalo? Two scholarships transferred to Buffalo in exchange. If we are to serve as a farm system to the schools we are expected to compete against we ought to have the benefit of casting a wider net up front. In this manner, player movement remains free but a cost is extracted from the bigger institutions almost always on the receiving end of top talent from the Buffalo's of the world.

For the record, I am a physician. I graduated from UB undergrad and medical school. Within the medical world people are generally upset when someone leaves a practice to work at a perceived competitor. Onerous restrictive covenants are commonplace. My own contract has a two year non-compete for the region with a buyout well into the six figures. Want to move to a "better job?" Be prepared to have a pound of flesh extracted and expect hard feelings from the former partners who have aided your professional development. 

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14 minutes ago, McBulls said:

In reality, both points of view are entirely understandable. KJ clearly thinks that transferring to a higher profile conference will improve his career opportunities. He has graduated and is well within his rights to make such a move. 

I won't happily cheer for him, however, in his new landing spot. KJ may feel that the move is best for him, and if so, is entitled to transfer. It is a slap in the face, however, to the school that has developed and educated him for the past four years. The covenant between school and player should be of mutual benefit. KJ was clearly not prepared to contribute as a freshman. The best move, for program and player, was to redshirt: Osborn maintains eligibility, learns the game, and grows stronger. It also ensures a fifth year of tuition free undergraduate or graduate education which is of lifelong benefit. UB earns a fifth year experienced player better ready to contribute down the line. In transferring for his senior season KJ still pockets his benefits, while UB loses out entirely on their investment.

Miami and other P5 schools further have no cause to pause when recruiting away a ready made graduate transfer from their G5 brethren. The NCAA, in order to maintain some semblance of a level playing field, needs to address the situation. Some form of compensatory transfer of scholarship(s) from the recipient institution to the donor, so to speak, seems most fair. Miami wants a polished 5th year starter from Buffalo? Two scholarships transferred to Buffalo in exchange. If we are to serve as a farm system to the schools we are expected to compete against we ought to have the benefit of casting a wider net up front. In this manner, player movement remains free but a cost is extracted from the bigger institutions almost always on the receiving end of top talent from the Buffalo's of the world.

For the record, I am a physician. I graduated from UB undergrad and medical school. Within the medical world people are generally upset when someone leaves a practice to work at a perceived competitor. Onerous restrictive covenants are commonplace. My own contract has a two year non-compete for the region with a buyout well into the six figures. Want to move to a "better job?" Be prepared to have a pound of flesh extracted and expect hard feelings from the former partners who have aided your professional development. 

Very, very well said!

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On 1/10/2019 at 9:58 PM, skrabukes said:

Oh, I'm sorry. Yay! Congratulations KJ! You're wonderful!

I hope that you enjoyed the $200k of scholarship from UB and if somehow, some way you get drafted, on draft day, it will be "KJ Osborn from Miami". 

Are we that lame that we are happy for him? If we are, I need to deeply reconsider my purchase of tickets and amount of donations in the future. 

the kid graduated.  It fulfilled his commitment by earning his degree and playing ball while doing so.  I cannot fault a kid for trying to better himself or his opportunities.  Also, $200k in scholarship?  Since when is tuition and room and board $25K per semester?

 

Good for him.  Sucks for us.  No need to belittle a kid for making a decision that is best for him. 

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38 minutes ago, JoeyRattlesnake said:

the kid graduated.  It fulfilled his commitment by earning his degree and playing ball while doing so.  I cannot fault a kid for trying to better himself or his opportunities.  Also, $200k in scholarship?  Since when is tuition and room and board $25K per semester?

 

Good for him.  Sucks for us.  No need to belittle a kid for making a decision that is best for him. 

Out of state tuition is approximately $25-30k/year, room & board, fees, books, meals and more = approx $50k/year. It's a lot of $$. 

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10 hours ago, McBulls said:

Miami and other P5 schools further have no cause to pause when recruiting away a ready made graduate transfer from their G5 brethren. The NCAA, in order to maintain some semblance of a level playing field, needs to address the situation. Some form of compensatory transfer of scholarship(s) from the recipient institution to the donor, so to speak, seems most fair. Miami wants a polished 5th year starter from Buffalo? Two scholarships transferred to Buffalo in exchange. If we are to serve as a farm system to the schools we are expected to compete against we ought to have the benefit of casting a wider net up front. In this manner, player movement remains free but a cost is extracted from the bigger institutions almost always on the receiving end of top talent from the Buffalo's of the world.

Just out of curiosity what would UB have had to give to Notre Dame (White) and Wisconsin (Rushing) last season?

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7 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:

Just out of curiosity what would UB have had to give to Notre Dame (White) and Wisconsin (Rushing) last season?

White and Rushing were backup players who received minimal time t best at their original schools, not all-league selections. I'd never question your allegiance BB, as you're all-in on UB always. I simply don't believe that we should be "happy" and "rooting on" players who leave us after we've invested and developed them as players, students and men. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the constant bouncing around of players all over the place, including high schools, which has become more frequent recently. It is what it is. Maybe our coaching staff will find a transfer/replacement for him who's even better. I'm just not going to root for him to have success elsewhere. I'm going to root for the UB players.

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The big difference between Osborn, compared to White and Rushing.  Osborn was a starter that was already getting plenty of playing time and, barring injury, was likely going to be UB's #1 receiver next year.    White and Rushing were getting very limited playing time at their previous schools and the transfer likely got them more playing time this past season than they would have received at their previous schools. 

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6 hours ago, skrabukes said:

White and Rushing were backup players who received minimal time t best at their original schools, not all-league selections. I'd never question your allegiance BB, as you're all-in on UB always. I simply don't believe that we should be "happy" and "rooting on" players who leave us after we've invested and developed them as players, students and men. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the constant bouncing around of players all over the place, including high schools, which has become more frequent recently. It is what it is. Maybe our coaching staff will find a transfer/replacement for him who's even better. I'm just not going to root for him to have success elsewhere. I'm going to root for the UB players.

I have not weighed in on way or the other on the issue.  I agree that the movement going on is becoming ridiculous.  My point was that if Mcbulls wanted "compensation" to be paid by Miami to UB for Osborn to be mandated by the NCAA.  It would have to work the other way as well when UB gets a graduate transfer from another school.

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Hey BB- totally agree, in such a situation I would feel that compensation is warranted for Notre Dame and Wisconsin from UB for such transfers. I don't know how to quantify the loss of an individual player player, but imagine a formula could be arranged dependent upon production/playing time at the prior institution and/or production/% snaps played at the institution to which a graduate transfer moves. If this compensation involved the transfer of available scholarships it would have to be trailing the post-grad season to allow such data to be formulated. 

As implied above, transfers from most P5 institutions to a G5 school involve a cast-off/afterthought player seeking playing time. Generally these players have a limited body of work from which the accepting institution can judge the merits of taking on such a player. A transfer from Buffalo to a P5 school? Typically the cream of our crop, with plenty of live game footage to back them up. Each has value, but probably not the same.

I think that the only way to temper the player movement explosion is to extract a greater cost on schools accepting transfers. The decision becomes much more difficult if poaching a KJ Osborn costs not only a one year scholarship and the possibility that his game won't translate to a "higher level" but also the opportunity to recruit future players who are seemingly less of a sure thing out of the high school/JUCO ranks. Until then prepare for the perceived lesser conference schools to hemorrhage top talent to blue bloods in football and basketball each year and the talent gap that admittedly already exists to become a gaping chasm.

And at that point- why even pretend that we compete with these schools as equals? If we don't view a school like this as a competitor and equal, and the transfer of a player to a program like Miami is met with cheers and congratulations for the player rather than lamenting the loss and feeling a sense of betrayal for our program and school, then why do we have a program at all? If your sense of accomplishment is passing along players to "better" D1 football schools, and more- if you offer congrats to KJ Osborn for living his dream by transferring to a "better" school at the D1 level- then shut the program down today. Spare me the placement of such schools on a pedestal, and spare me if I don't congratulate a former Bulls receiver who felt the same way. I don't begrudge KJ transferring, and I don't want him on my team if he wants to be elsewhere. But I also won't congratulate or root for him any more than I would my wife if she left me for another "better" man.

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11 hours ago, ChubbyHubby said:

The big difference between Osborn, compared to White and Rushing.  Osborn was a starter that was already getting plenty of playing time and, barring injury, was likely going to be UB's #1 receiver next year.    White and Rushing were getting very limited playing time at their previous schools and the transfer likely got them more playing time this past season than they would have received at their previous schools. 

So what you're saying is that they chose a situation that they thought was better for them, after another school had invested the time and effort into them.  i.e. different, but the same.  😛

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The recent increase in transfers does not only apply to student athletes, but also to the plain old student.

" Transfer student enrollment is projected to be the highest in three years at 1,735 students. "

- From one of the bullet points at the bottom of the following article.

http://www.buffalo.edu/news/releases/2018/09/017.html

Edit: I don't think it will slow down anytime soon.

Edited by 121Merrimac
Added my opinion.

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When a player that was recruited, signed, coached, nurtured at UB decides to fly the coop - regardless of whether that player was a star a bench warmer or bailed really early - I hope that player falls flat on his face. I will never root for him. He’s a traitor.

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Jeff Thomas pulls a Manny Diaz and returns to Miami.  With the talent coming in, I wonder how much playing time KJ will get.

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