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Ultimate Nate Oats Thread - Future/Staying/Growth/Articles

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13 minutes ago, bull_trojan said:

By that math, I think we should offer 923k over 10 years with no buyout if he is fired, and a healthy buyout if he leaves for another job.

What do you mean no buyout if he is fired?  Are you saying his salary is NOT guaranteed for 10 years?  If so, why would any coach agree to that deal? 

 

15 minutes ago, bull_trojan said:

So you have to say 9 million over the next 3 years, but possibly no Conference champs, no NCAA tourneys, and possibly fired after those 3 years. If fired, let's say you go to ASU and do the 150k associate coach thing for 7 years. Total earnings = 10,050,000 million over 10 years.

This isn't realistic.  He is young and energetic.  He is more likely to do like Reggie and take over another small program as a head coach.  So he would be making a lot more money even if he lost that power conference job.  And salaries will go up in the future. Not to mention the time value of money... You have to assume that money is being invested.

Your equation assumes if things don't work out for him.  You're pricing him based on failure.  I don't think you can do that.  If he is a coach worth $1M at Buffalo then he can have success at a major program. 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, bull_trojan said:

By that math, I think we should offer 923k over 10 years with no buyout if he is fired, and a healthy buyout if he leaves for another job.

That violates basic contract law.  All coaching contracts have to be paid off in full if a coach is not fired for cause.  Not winning enough is not cause.  You have to be fired like Briles was at Baylor to have a chance to not payoff a contract. Basic contract law requires the damaged party (fired coach) to mitigate damages (unless they get a clause in their contract like Gill had at Kansas, that the balance of the contract was to be paid off in equal installments 30, 60 and 90 days after termination, regardless as to whether or not a new job was obtained).  That means they have to look for another job and any money paid in the new job will reduce the amount of money owed by the firing institution.  The question that comes up is how far does a person have to look for a job geographically.  In connection with a UB coach they would have to try to get a job at St. Bonaventure, Canisus or Niagara, if an opening occurred.  A UB coach may not have to apply for a job at Gonzaga.

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2 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said:

That violates basic contract law.  All coaching contracts have to be paid off in full if a coach is not fired for cause.  Not winning enough is not cause.  You have to be fired like Briles was at Baylor to have a chance to not payoff a contract. Basic contract law requires the damaged party (fired coach) to mitigate damages (unless they get a clause in their contract like Gill had at Kansas, that the balance of the contract was to be paid off in equal installments 30, 60 and 90 days after termination, regardless as to whether or not a new job was obtained).  That means they have to look for another job and any money paid in the new job will reduce the amount of money owed by the firing institution.  The question that comes up is how far does a person have to look for a job geographically.  In connection with a UB coach they would have to try to get a job at St. Bonaventure, Canisus or Niagara, if an opening occurred.  A UB coach may not have to apply for a job at Gonzaga.

Consideration is overrated... 

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Sorry guys, I meant no buyout as in fully guaranteed. 

If he's getting offers for 6-10 million, I think it's only right to give him the full amount guaranteed over a long period that he's hopefully here for.

I'm against giving a guy like TG a fully guaranteed agreement before he proved he could do it at that level...although I think the AD's intention was "well now you can't fire him after 2 years cause you don't want to pay him for nothing" move, which backfired on all levels.

Edited by bull_trojan

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18 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said:

That violates basic contract law.  All coaching contracts have to be paid off in full if a coach is not fired for cause.  Not winning enough is not cause.  

Legally, could you write a contract that stipulates a minimum winning percentage, therefore failure to reach that percentage would be "for cause"

I go back and forth with that one, because you don't want a coach who will win at any cost, because that's how you end up with sanctions.

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4 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

If they keep their commitment at the same level, you're right.  But if they decide to make a commitment, that will change.  They can afford to pay big, if they want.  The question is if they want to.

Nate wants a whole lot more than being paid big!

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3 hours ago, bull_trojan said:

I think the AD's intention was "well now you can't fire him after 2 years cause you don't want to pay him for nothing" move, which backfired on all levels.

Cost was sunk before the ink on the contract dried

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23 minutes ago, rma said:

Cost was sunk before the ink on the contract dried

I'm sure that was Kansas' justification for firing him, although the money Gill was owed was sunk, the $$ they threw away on "big schematic advantage" were not.

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10 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Penn State can be a winner. 

He’s not going there. 

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On 2/8/2019 at 12:43 PM, BrooklynBull said:

That violates basic contract law.  All coaching contracts have to be paid off in full if a coach is not fired for cause.  

I can't imagine it violates basic contract law - plenty of non guaranteed contracts out there.

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I believe, with no legal training at all, that a contract is a binding agreement. The 'non guarantee' part would have to be part of the contract. And btw, I also believe that Brooklyn is a labor lawyer.

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19 hours ago, ed said:

I can't imagine it violates basic contract law - plenty of non guaranteed contracts out there.

A non-guaranteed contract is one that is subservient to a larger agreement, i.e. a collective bargaining agreement (think NFL).  When you agree to hire a person for a set number of years you must pay all of it unless you can terminate the person for cause or any other term placed into the contract to allow early termination.  Even the NFL contracts state that a player must make the team to be paid for each year.  A multi-year NFL contract is really a series of one year contracts that require the player to make the team in order to be paid. A fully guaranteed contract is what Carmelo Anthony has, with somebody paying him although he is not playing.

 

Not a labor lawyer, but took contracts in law school.

Edited by BrooklynBull

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https://watchstadium.com/news/goody-bag-meet-ochai-agbaji-lsus-game-changer-hot-coaching-names-more-02-14-2019/

Article mentions Oats as a potential target for Nebraska, Minnesota, penn state and Boston College. 

Two of those schools are football schools with little basketball history. And all 4 imo are lateral moves despite being in a P5 conference. I don’t see Oats jumping to any of those schools. 

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1 hour ago, DooleyBull06 said:

https://watchstadium.com/news/goody-bag-meet-ochai-agbaji-lsus-game-changer-hot-coaching-names-more-02-14-2019/

Article mentions Oats as a potential target for Nebraska, Minnesota, penn state and Boston College. 

Two of those schools are football schools with little basketball history. And all 4 imo are lateral moves despite being in a P5 conference. I don’t see Oats jumping to any of those schools. 

I don't think the article (blog post?) has much credibility. He also mentions Jason Kidd as a potential college coach...potentially at Cal or UNLV. Kidd played at Cal, but is not an alum. No degree and multiple arrests over the years are not resume enhancers. Lack of a degree almost automatically disqualifies him for an NCAA coaching job.  Might even be a requirement in the UC system.

Edited by sportscliche

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21 minutes ago, sportscliche said:

I don't think the article (blog post?) has much credibility. He also mentions Jason Kidd as a potential college coach...potentially at Cal or UNLV. Kidd played at Cal, but is not an alum. No degree and multiple arrests over the years are not resume enhancers. Lack of a degree almost automatically disqualifies him for an NCAA coaching job.  Might even be a requirement in the UC system.

Just don't check his references  and you're OK - Manhattan College

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23 minutes ago, sportscliche said:

I don't think the article (blog post?) has much credibility. He also mentions Jason Kidd as a potential college coach...potentially at Cal or UNLV. Kidd played at Cal, but is not an alum. No degree and multiple arrests over the years are not resume enhancers. Lack of a degree almost automatically disqualifies him for an NCAA coaching job.  Might even be a requirement in the UC system.

I am merely just passing along info and articles I come across.  The article is written by Jeff Goodman who has worked at various places including ESPN and CBS.  He is a college basketball insider.  He's just as credible as Jon Rothstein or Cory Evans.  Its not some random blogger.  Obviously his word isn't gold and he may be wrong but I would say its credible.

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1 hour ago, DooleyBull06 said:

https://watchstadium.com/news/goody-bag-meet-ochai-agbaji-lsus-game-changer-hot-coaching-names-more-02-14-2019/

Article mentions Oats as a potential target for Nebraska, Minnesota, penn state and Boston College. 

Two of those schools are football schools with little basketball history. And all 4 imo are lateral moves despite being in a P5 conference. I don’t see Oats jumping to any of those schools. 

I can see the speculation, which possibly isn't as Goodman definitely has access to insider info, but I do not see Nate touching any of these jobs. Of course ADMA needs to make a stepped up commitment to Nate after the season, if not before.

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18 hours ago, UB85 said:

I can see the speculation, which possibly isn't as Goodman definitely has access to insider info, but I do not see Nate touching any of these jobs. Of course ADMA needs to make a stepped up commitment to Nate after the season, if not before.

Nate has said more than one time in interviews that he wants to build something big here s long as the UB admin shows the same commitment. Talking about a athletic facility for basketball and the fact Nate and his family are happy here and with their home in Grand Island. As long as Mark Alnutt shows his commitment by giving Nate another raise I think he will want to stay, Nate has also said that all the money in the world won’t matter if you don’t have a winning team and culture and you have no fun in doing so. We need to keep this winning culture going. Go Bulls!!!!  

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19 hours ago, UB85 said:

I can see the speculation, which possibly isn't as Goodman definitely has access to insider info, but I do not see Nate touching any of these jobs. Of course ADMA needs to make a stepped up commitment to Nate after the season, if not before.

A really good and informative article about the hot coaches for next year’s jobs. There are many, many names out there other the Nate’s name. From the local standpoint unless you look at these type articles you will not be very informed and not be able to make good judgements on the coaching searches. Go Bulls!!!!!

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1 hour ago, MillenniumBull said:

If Minnesota comes calling, that’d be a hard gig to pass up.

They only paying 1.6 million right now Minnesota, the 9th or 10th best job in that conference, and overshadowed by WVB in the fall and hockey in the spring. Plus Wisconsin vs Minnesota rivalry. Only plus is that he could stick it to Wisconsin for not hiring him.

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1 hour ago, bull_trojan said:

They only paying 1.6 million right now Minnesota, the 9th or 10th best job in that conference, and overshadowed by WVB in the fall and hockey in the spring. Plus Wisconsin vs Minnesota rivalry. Only plus is that he could stick it to Wisconsin for not hiring him.

I can see how so many opinions out there think just because of the money and what the compensation is that Nate would jump. There are so many more issues than just the money. Nate wants to be able to win and I don’t see the Penn State’s and Minnesota’s being able to compete in the Big 10 against the big boys and win recruiting wars against them. The reality is in 3/4 years you can be out of a job again and starting all over. In today’s sports it seems all that is talked about are the big bucks and it is sad that is suppose to be the end all for everything you do in life. You can make less money and still have a successful life. The issue really is in today’s sports world the money has blown normal life out of proportion and our family are slowly losing all our enjoyment of sports in general. Go Bulls!!!!

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I think if the job isn't there the money has to be there. Everyone probably has a fantasy number, for most people it's probably in the 5 million so I can live off interest for the rest of my life area.

I think it helps the enjoyment, the carousel is enjoying, and it makes the guys who stay even more special. I do think we haven't learned anything from this era of coaching changes...

What makes a good coach? How do you find a good coach? How do you develop? How do you retain? We haven't substantially tried to answer these questions, we've just thrown money at everything (except the players)

Honestly if we had more money, instead of lucking into the Detroit area HS coach we're blessed to have, we'd probably have spent big money on a name that probably wouldn't have done half the good Oats has done...

Edited by bull_trojan

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