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Kevin

Buffalo in Charleston Classic - 2019

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Really big news with a great slate of teams. 

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I love the work Oats/Alnutt are doing to raise the profile of this program!

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1 minute ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Why did Penn State pull out of the event?

 

Decided to do the preseason NIT instead.

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Keeps the streak of MAC teams in it alive as well.  2018 was Ball State, 2017 was Ohio, and 2016 was WMU.  Hopefully UB does better though than Ball State (7th of 8), Ohio (7th of 8), and WMU (8th of 😎

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I just saw this. This is exciting. A quality tournament that gaurauntees 4 games. A campus site game (I assume we’d be the road team) and 3 neutral site games. I was hoping we would find our way into a non conference tournament. Big credit to the staff and administration. Should be fun and more exposure against quality teams.

*Note: some teams in this years field play a campus site game and some didn’t. Either way it’s 3 games for sure on a neutral court.

Edited by DooleyBull06

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2 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

I just saw this. This is exciting. A quality tournament that gaurauntees 4 games. A campus site game (I assume we’d be the road team) and 3 neutral site games. I was hoping we would find our way into a non conference tournament. Big credit to the staff and administration. Should be fun and more exposure against quality teams.

My understanding is that it is only a three game event.  However, teams are free to make their own agreement for an additional game, if they want, and can include it in the event at a fourth game.  But the teams have to negotiate those games themselves. 

 

This year's extra games:

Northeastern at Davidson

Ball State at Purdue

App State at Alabama

 

Opted out of playing an additional game:

Virginia Tech

Wichita State

 

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2 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

My understanding is that it is only a three game event.  However, teams are free to make their own agreement for an additional game, if they want, and can include it in the event at a fourth game.  But the teams have to negotiate those games themselves. 

 

This year's extra games:

Northeastern at Davidson

Ball State at Purdue

App State at Alabama

 

Opted out of playing an additional game:

Virginia Tech

Wichita State

 

Which is awesome to have that option to negotiate. Either way 3 for sure games against good teams and on American soil!

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2 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

Which is awesome to have that option to negotiate. Either way 3 for sure games against good teams and on American soil!

Yeah, but the year before (when Ohio was in it) there was only one extra game played--Auburn at Dayton.

If teams think Buffalo is going to be good, they might not want to play them that close to three other tough games.  Remember the game has to be played within a week of the tournament.

Might actually be harder to negotiate a game with a good team.  But if that's the case, it might be a good chance to get Towson or Missouri State to come to Alumni Arena!

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13 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Yeah, but the year before (when Ohio was in it) there was only one extra game played--Auburn at Dayton.

If teams think Buffalo is going to be good, they might not want to play them that close to three other tough games.  Remember the game has to be played within a week of the tournament.

Might actually be harder to negotiate a game with a good team.  But if that's the case, it might be a good chance to get Towson or Missouri State to come to Alumni Arena!

I would go this route.  Always nice to get a power conference game, but it would be on the road.  I would like to see them try and get Towson, Missouri State, or St. Joseph's to come to Alumni.  Might even have a chance at UConn.

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14 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said:

I just saw this. This is exciting. A quality tournament that gaurauntees 4 games. A campus site game (I assume we’d be the road team) and 3 neutral site games. I was hoping we would find our way into a non conference tournament. Big credit to the staff and administration. Should be fun and more exposure against quality teams.

*Note: some teams in this years field play a campus site game and some didn’t. Either way it’s 3 games for sure on a neutral court.

Love they were able to get into this tournament with a really strong field. It was fun playing in and winning a smaller tournament like we did this year, but win or lose it'll be fun seeing them compete with these.

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15 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said:

I just saw this. This is exciting. A quality tournament that gaurauntees 4 games. A campus site game (I assume we’d be the road team) and 3 neutral site games. I was hoping we would find our way into a non conference tournament. Big credit to the staff and administration.

Is it challenging to get into a pre season tournament? What does it take to do that?

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2 hours ago, yussi1870 said:

Is it challenging to get into a pre season tournament? What does it take to do that?

I don’t know specifics. Maybe one of the other guys with better knowledge can fill us in.

But I will say this...I assume it’s very challenging to get into certain tournaments bc those tournaments at the end of the day wanna make money. And not all mid majors bring in dollars. Perhaps it’s somewhat comparable to college football bowl selection.

I feel, and maybe you guys may agree, this could be the best tournament we’ve be in?

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3 hours ago, yussi1870 said:

Is it challenging to get into a pre season tournament? What does it take to do that?

It is more challenging for us than some other schools, but our league is so focused on football in November and December that they don't really help place schools in these tournaments.  If you look at the MAAC, they sponsor both the Belfast Classic and the Advocare Tournament in Florida and as part of sponsoring those, they make sure their teams get spots in each tournament.

The MAC schools need to do all the work on their own and get basically zero help from the league.

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It is easier if you're one of the better mid majors to get into these tournaments.

Only one team per conference is allowed to be in each tournament.  So that means if there are Eight teams they need a mid-major after the power conferences are filled.  So being one of the better Mid-Majors really helps you get an invite.  It is the reason Gonzaga, Dayton, VCU, and UConn get their pick of events.

This event, and most of the big ones, are owned by ESPN.  They don't actually look for the top teams but the teams with the most fans who will watch on TV.  These events are not about selling tickets to the arena but about getting people to tune in to ESPN.

It is hard to get into a specific event because you can only play in the same event once every four years.  This means that teams shuffle every year to different events and the top teams get their priority and enter contracts years in advance. It is hard to get into a good event if you haven't been good for a long time.

I have a feeling they wouldn't have been in a good event next year if not for Penn State pulling out.  Teams pulling out and switching events is rare and there were likely very few teams available for the last slot.  The later you're added to an event, the lower your priority for the event.  You will notice SWAC and MEAC schools getting added to events over the summer when tournaments just need some warm bodies for campus games.

Each event is formally sponsored by a host school or conference that sanctions the event.

There is an exemption for teams outside the mainland that allows them to play in the same event more than once a year if they are the host school.  Otherwise, even if you're the host, you can only play in the event once every four years.  (Example: Hawaii plays in the Diamond Head Classic every year but College of Charleston won't be playing in the Charleston Classic they host in their home gym.)  This is why Buffalo hosting an event wouldn't really help the team.  They wouldn't be able to play in it 75% of the time.

Schools and conferences that are the hosts of an event typically keep one slot to be filled by a team in their conference.  This is why Towson is in Charleston this year and Northeastern was in it last year.  Charleston gives one slot to CAA schools each year.  The same is true of most of the other top tournaments:  with the MAAC sponsoring the AdvoCare Invitational and Atlantis being sponsored by Conference USA, for instance.

Schools are often paid to be in an event.  But the payments are not always the same for each school and often times they only cover expenses.  It all depends on how vital you are for an event.  The winning team of the Battle 4 Atlantis was paid $1 Million in the early years but once the event was established they stopped doing that.  Not Teams are only guaranteed Travel, Lodging, and an appearance fee of about $150k for playing at Atlantis.  

Some bracketed events don't pay teams anything other than covering their expenses for the event.  They simply sell them on the location and the TV exposure. 

Playing in the minor bracket and playing road games can generate teams more money in some events.  The visiting team is often paid for their road games while the major team may be paid to be in the major bracket, or if they are not a big enough name, simply be provided with a home game or two in lieu of payment. When you see a four team bracket as a part of one of these events and one team seems like they don't belong, there is a good chance that they are basically paying for that luxury to get to play the other teams. And when you see a historically good school in a minor bracket, it is likely because they wanted to take the money.

For instance, it is common for a visiting team to be paid $80k to play in a four game event and then that team have to play two road games at an opponent's gym and then they get two neutral court games against similar tier teams.  Hotels will be paid for but all other expenses the team is responsible for.  While that might seem like an alright deal, this same school will most often be paid $85k for a single game when the go to an opponent's gym for a single game.  So they are making less than they would normally make for a road game.

This is the big issue with mid-major schools.  Do you take the exposure or the money?  If you take the exposure, you really don't want to go winless in the event.

 

Edited by dutchcountry7
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21 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

My understanding is that it is only a three game event.  However, teams are free to make their own agreement for an additional game, if they want, and can include it in the event at a fourth game.  But the teams have to negotiate those games themselves. 

 

This year's extra games:

Northeastern at Davidson

Ball State at Purdue

App State at Alabama

 

Opted out of playing an additional game:

Virginia Tech

Wichita State

 

If possible I think UB should actually try and go on the road with this one and maybe play at Florida if they can as part of this.  It would be a homecoming of sorts for Davonta Jordan, Antwain Johnson and Ronaldo Segu

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2 minutes ago, BullBoy said:

If possible I think UB should actually try and go on the road with this one and maybe play at Florida if they can as part of this.  It would be a homecoming of sorts for Davonta Jordan, Antwain Johnson and Ronaldo Segu

I don’t mind road games against P5 schools. Works better for the net rankings. And I like the swag of winning on the road.

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1 hour ago, dutchcountry7 said:

I have a feeling they wouldn't have been in a good event next year if not for Penn State pulling out.  Teams pulling out and switching events is rare and there were likely very few teams available for the last slot.

No doubt! Thanks Penn State. Oats mentioned last week in a podcast or radio interview that he was still having trouble scheduling for next season. I’m sure this will help immensely. 

You also mentioned taking money or exposure...I say we are still in that “becoming” period that either or is great for us. Exposure is money and money is, well it’s money. 

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6 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

It is easier if you're one of the better mid majors to get into these tournaments.

Only one team per conference is allowed to be in each tournament.  So that means if there are Eight teams they need a mid-major after the power conferences are filled.  So being one of the better Mid-Majors really helps you get an invite.  It is the reason Gonzaga, Dayton, VCU, and UConn get their pick of events.

This event, and most of the big ones, are owned by ESPN.  They don't actually look for the top teams but the teams with the most fans who will watch on TV.  These events are not about selling tickets to the arena but about getting people to tune in to ESPN.

It is hard to get into a specific event because you can only play in the same event once every four years.  This means that teams shuffle every year to different events and the top teams get their priority and enter contracts years in advance. It is hard to get into a good event if you haven't been good for a long time.

I have a feeling they wouldn't have been in a good event next year if not for Penn State pulling out.  Teams pulling out and switching events is rare and there were likely very few teams available for the last slot.  The later you're added to an event, the lower your priority for the event.  You will notice SWAC and MEAC schools getting added to events over the summer when tournaments just need some warm bodies for campus games.

Each event is formally sponsored by a host school or conference that sanctions the event.

There is an exemption for teams outside the mainland that allows them to play in the same event more than once a year if they are the host school.  Otherwise, even if you're the host, you can only play in the event once every four years.  (Example: Hawaii plays in the Diamond Head Classic every year but College of Charleston won't be playing in the Charleston Classic they host in their home gym.)  This is why Buffalo hosting an event wouldn't really help the team.  They wouldn't be able to play in it 75% of the time.

Schools and conferences that are the hosts of an event typically keep one slot to be filled by a team in their conference.  This is why Towson is in Charleston this year and Northeastern was in it last year.  Charleston gives one slot to CAA schools each year.  The same is true of most of the other top tournaments:  with the MAAC sponsoring the AdvoCare Invitational and Atlantis being sponsored by Conference USA, for instance.

Schools are often paid to be in an event.  But the payments are not always the same for each school and often times they only cover expenses.  It all depends on how vital you are for an event.  The winning team of the Battle 4 Atlantis was paid $1 Million in the early years but once the event was established they stopped doing that.  Not Teams are only guaranteed Travel, Lodging, and an appearance fee of about $150k for playing at Atlantis.  

Some bracketed events don't pay teams anything other than covering their expenses for the event.  They simply sell them on the location and the TV exposure. 

Playing in the minor bracket and playing road games can generate teams more money in some events.  The visiting team is often paid for their road games while the major team may be paid to be in the major bracket, or if they are not a big enough name, simply be provided with a home game or two in lieu of payment. When you see a four team bracket as a part of one of these events and one team seems like they don't belong, there is a good chance that they are basically paying for that luxury to get to play the other teams. And when you see a historically good school in a minor bracket, it is likely because they wanted to take the money.

For instance, it is common for a visiting team to be paid $80k to play in a four game event and then that team have to play two road games at an opponent's gym and then they get two neutral court games against similar tier teams.  Hotels will be paid for but all other expenses the team is responsible for.  While that might seem like an alright deal, this same school will most often be paid $85k for a single game when the go to an opponent's gym for a single game.  So they are making less than they would normally make for a road game.

This is the big issue with mid-major schools.  Do you take the exposure or the money?  If you take the exposure, you really don't want to go winless in the event.

 

This was a really helpful answer. Who sets these rules? The NCAA?

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14 hours ago, yussi1870 said:

This was a really helpful answer. Who sets these rules? The NCAA?

The NCAA member schools and conferences propose all rules and then vote on them for adoption.  The NCAA simply enforces the rules created by the member schools.

 

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