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The Search for a New Head Coach


Jeseph

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10 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

 

I would like this hire. Has prior coaching experience. Not an old geezer. From Buffalo. Ok so what he played at Bona. Family lineage. And he’s been an assistant for Rick Barnes. 

Yes with hiring an external candidate that would be a complete rebuild but I’m ok with that. Those recruits or current players that wanna leave be gone. 

Theres no certainty that they would stay if Hodgson gets the job. Plus it seems Hogdson has one foot out the door already. And he has no coaching experience. So think about that if you’re Alnutt. You wanna put it on the line with a first timer?

He does have coaching experience. What many coaches don’t have his recruiting experience and look what he has done here. How do you think the majority of coaches got their start. They were assistant coaches. Hodgson has all the attributes of a good coach. His big plus is he knows our players, our conference and has been successful and his reputation is top notch among the fans with knowledge. he would be a first time coach in the MAC, not in the ACC or SEC. All the the names mentioned for HC are retreads or assistant coaches or they have been fired from HC jobs. This is a disaster waiting to happen just like Canisius and Niagara.and I can name many other programs if you need intelligent input.

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9 minutes ago, John said:

He does have coaching experience. What many coaches don’t have his recruiting experience and look what he has done here.

If Lanier is a good recruiter as this tweet suggest look at the talent Tennessee had. Look at the players and how they have grown and developed there. Hodgson as coach won’t be blazing the recruiting trail he will have to hire someone to do that on his behalf...who will that be? Another first timer? What brand is that person gonna sell recruits? Lots of questions with Hodgson as coach. I support whoever takes over. I kinda want someone who has coached before. And if that person has coaching experience and is currently known as a good recruiter then that’s the best of both worlds.

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I actually haven’t been on here much since we lost to TT. That and then the oats news just really put me in a slump. I’m sorry people want to move on taking about just a new coach but I kinda wanna get my feelings out on the whole situation. Maybe it’ll make me feel better. 

I don’t really blame oats for tripling his salary. I’m just really upset about him saying he wanted to build something here. I know that’s just how this business works but damnit I just wish we could get someone here that was actually sincere about that. I’m so terrified of us dropping back to insignificance and the odds are seriously against us. Yea it’s just business but it really screws us over. We are going to lose recruits and I’m not going to be surprised one bit if we lose graves/segu/Williams. We just need to hope and pray the new coach can do what Oats did and kept the ball rolling here in buffalo. 

Im also pretty upset that there’s still been no statement from oats to us about anything and it all seemed so abrupt. I just can’t inagine that if he had any feelings towards buffalo that he would make this kind of decision in a matter of like 2 days. Seems like bama was really interested in him. You really think they wouldn’t wait a little bit? He’s already off offering people we had offered and he hasn’t even said goodbye. It’s a little bit of a slap in the face. The contract extension is good for us and maybe that was his parting gift to us but it’s still a sucky situation and we are going to be lucky if this doesn’t cause a massive downward spiral. I really just thought we were finally building an athletics culture here and now we’re screwed and likely back to square one. I’m thankful of the amazing last couple of years we had but I don’t want to just be a flash in the pan. Remember when Loyola-Chicago said that? Yea that didn’t age well...

I’m not really someone who knows what possible candidates there are out there I just want someone who will stay.. Hurley was great breaking the barrier and getting us in the tourney but there was no doubt from the start we would be a stepping stone so it almost hurt less. It hurt that he took our players but little did we know, that wouldn’t make a difference. I didn’t like how whiney he was even when he was with buffalo and we saw he still throws stupid hissy fits on the sideline at ASU so I’m not sad at all about him moving on. Oats hurts more though. Liked him much more as a person and a coach and I really want to build something here. I guess shame on me for thinking he was sincere. Although one of the current assistants might be our best bet to retain players and recruits I just feel like they would jump ship immediately after any success. If I was AD I’d be most interested in the person most sincere about staying. Not sure if Leipold has had any offers but we know he stayed at whitewater for forever and I’m under the impression it was tough getting him away. That’s the kind of person I want. 

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Rob Lanier does not excite me at all. If we're going with a guy with good assistant credits who didn't do much as HC then we may as well stick with Whitesell. If we're going outside of Oats staff, I'd kick the tires on Mike Anderson, Avery Johnson, John Becker, John Brannen, LeVelle Moton and see if they have any interest. 

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I’m not thrilled about Rob Lanier. Didn’t he fail at Siena? That’s basically like failing at Canisius or Niagara. He’s also job hopped around and interviews often. What if he starts looking again after only a year? Also, I could care less if he’s from Buffalo. I rather hire someone with deep aau or juco recruiting ties and Hodgson is that guy. Hodgson is still hungry while I think Rob has been collecting good salaries as Associate coach around many schools. Get someone younger, hungry and that will focus on building off this last 5 years. 

Edited by MKBullsfan
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I'm not as fixed as others on Lanier's 2005 success at Siena. He's been tied to Rick Barnes at strong programs for years now, I would hope that would set him up for better success in his next HC stint.

Conversely he's had a taste for P5 basketball and may be another "stepping stone" coach. At this point though, I'm not sold on anybody selling us on long term commitment at UB so it is what it is...

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42 minutes ago, MKBullsfan said:

I’m not thrilled about Rob Lanier. Didn’t he fail at Siena? That’s basically like failing at Canisius or Niagara. He’s also job hopped around and interviews often. What if he starts looking again after only a year? Also, I could care less if he’s from Buffalo. I rather hire someone with deep aau or juco recruiting ties and Hodgson is that guy. Hodgson is still hungry while I think Rob has been collecting good salaries as Associate coach around many schools. Get someone younger, hungry and that will focus on building off this last 5 years. 

Rob is indeed active on the recruiting trail.  He is often in this area and signed talent Bryan could not. i.e. Davonte Gaines 6'7" SF Health Sciences. At the moment I waiting to see what John Orogun will do. He's the 6'11 C UB offered as a Sophomore while at Park. 

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Just now, Jeseph said:

I'm not as fixed as others on Lanier's 2005 success at Siena. He's been tied to Rick Barnes at strong programs for years now, I would hope that would set him up for better success in his next HC stint.

Conversely he's had a taste for P5 basketball and may be another "stepping stone" coach. At this point though, I'm not sold on anybody selling us on long term commitment at UB so it is what it is...

If UB wants long term i.e. "Spoon" then you need where local ties are strong i.e.: Battle, McDonald, Jacob, Nwora, and assistants like Gamble

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2 hours ago, BasketBull said:

Rob Lanier does not excite me at all. If we're going with a guy with good assistant credits who didn't do much as HC then we may as well stick with Whitesell. If we're going outside of Oats staff, I'd kick the tires on Mike Anderson, Avery Johnson, John Becker, John Brannen, LeVelle Moton and see if they have any interest. 

They by all accounts have kicked tires with some of those names. Tough to know if they’d be will to go from 2M salaries to 600k 

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1 minute ago, Kevin said:

They by all accounts have kicked tires with some of those names. Tough to know if they’d be will to go from 2M salaries to 600k 

If they can bring in a name like that they should offer them everything our ex coach was getting. 

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3 minutes ago, UB05 said:

If they can bring in a name like that they should offer them everything our ex coach was getting. 

You have to have room to grow. Aside from making it attractive to the new HC we have to plan for them to succeed and earn raises/extensions. I think we were stretching with Oats' salary, using that as a baseline could be risky.

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3 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

You have to have room to grow. Aside from making it attractive to the new HC we have to plan for them to succeed and earn raises/extensions. I think we were stretching with Oats' salary, using that as a baseline could be risky.

You’re probably right. But if people expect us to become a big time program we have to be able to compete like one. Unless our donor base and boosters increase, we honestly don’t deserve to be in a different class than the rest of the MAC. Can’t think big if we don’t act big. 

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People are also complaining that there has not been information coming from UB who is being interviewed.

In reverse order:

  • Alnutt
  • Oats
  • Hurley
  • Leipold
  • Leggette-Jack
  • White
  • Quinn

Which one of these names did anyone hear about until almost the exact time of the official announcement?

Alnutt was predicted at 1:30 AM on this site the morning that he was officially announced.  The first regular media mention of him was about 5 minutes before the press conference.

For what it is worth the prediction on Alnutt came after some discussions with people outside of Athletics and seeing that he just been followed on Twitter by, now hold your breath, Nate Oats.

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35 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said:

People are also complaining that there has not been information coming from UB who is being interviewed.

In reverse order:

  • Alnutt
  • Oats
  • Hurley
  • Leipold
  • Leggette-Jack
  • White
  • Quinn

Which one of these names did anyone hear about until almost the exact time of the official announcement?

Alnutt was predicted at 1:30 AM on this site the morning that he was officially announced.  The first regular media mention of him was about 5 minutes before the press conference.

For what it is worth the prediction on Alnutt came after some discussions with people outside of Athletics and seeing that he just been followed on Twitter by, now hold your breath, Nate Oats.

Leipold got leaked because he has a family member that posted about it on Twitter.  Oats there was no reason to leak because he was already the interim coach.  There's unfortunately little coverage on WBB, which is why there was no leak about FLJ.  White to UCF was leaked.

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1 hour ago, ButlerAlumDad said:

If UB wants long term i.e. "Spoon" then you need where local ties are strong i.e.: Battle, McDonald, Jacob, Nwora, and assistants like Gamble

Lanier is from Buffalo... so there is a tie.

 

Also, do we really want "Spoon" again?  A lifer who challenges for a MAC title every four years?  This is a good problem we have on our hands.  We are successful, therefore we are looking for a new coach.  In reality, you're always looking for a new one unless you're a blue-blood program.  You're either winning and coaches are getting poached or you're losing and you're firing your coach.  Look at Va Tech.  They just were a 4-seed, challenged Duke to the final horn and now Buzz Williams is flirting with Texas A&M.  It happens everywhere not named Kansas, Duke, Carolina & Kentucky.

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Bobby Hurley and Nate Oats had tremendous success at Buffalo (Oats far greater, of course). This success, in my opinion, was driven in part by the same ambition that resulted in the departure of these coaches. We shouldn't be upset- that ambition first carried our program to greater heights than it had every seen. Instead of praying for four days in Cleveland each year we dare to take on the powers of the sport, seemingly any time and any place. We've taken our lumps, but dealt some out as well. The program is in greater shape now than ever before as a result of the results delivered over the prior 6 years.

That attitude was part of the allure of these coaches. They were outsiders who expected more from the players they recruited. The demanded more from the administration. Each left to pursue greater resources offered at larger institutions in bigger conferences while getting paid a salary that we can't match. Each used us to advance his career; each left us in a better position than they inherited and built the Buffalo brand. The perfect transactional relationship, one of mutual benefit.

I'd like our next coach to match this level of ambition. I don't want someone who is just happy to be in Buffalo. I don't give a damn about stability, and I certainly don't care if our next coach is from Buffalo. Why limit our possibilities? I don't want anyone who might settle for mediocrity. I want someone who is hungry. I want a coach who wants to compete for championships. Because the only way this program continues to move forward is if the coach demands improvement and wills success into existence. I want a builder, and I don't care if they don't finish the job or instead hand over the reigns again in 3-4 years. Next man up. Recruit your players, implement your system, impose your will. Defense like Chris Beard? Great. Offensive juggernaut like Oats? Fine. I don't care. Win basketball games, and do it clean. Onwards and upwards. 

As an aside, someone on this board suggested that Bob McKillop was a shining example of loyalty with the implication that he is the type of coach we should aspire for. He has advanced beyond the round of 64 once in 30 years at Davidson. Davidson is an outstanding program, but no thank you if you wish that as our ceiling. I loved Reggie Witherspoon. He was a Buffalo guy, ran a clean program, recruited the region. I was happy competing for MAC titles and hoping we might break through for a tournament appearance at some point. I was devastated when he was fired. I was wrong. Credit to AD DW for having the stones to expect more. As Buffalonians we sometimes forget- we don't have to settle.

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1 minute ago, JoeyRattlesnake said:

Lanier is from Buffalo... so there is a tie.

 

Also, do we really want "Spoon" again?  A lifer who challenges for a MAC title every four years?  This is a good problem we have on our hands.  We are successful, therefore we are looking for a new coach.  In reality, you're always looking for a new one unless you're a blue-blood program?  You're either winning and coaches are getting poached or you're losing and you're firing your coach.  Look at Va Tech.  They just were a 4-seed, challenged Duke to the final horn and now Buzz Williams is flirting with Texas A&M.  It happens everywhere not named Kansas, Duke, Carolina & Kentucky.

Sorry, forgot to list Rob as local though I believe UB would be a stepping stone for him. All one needs to do is look up state salaries here and compare with state schools with big time programs. No NYS employee has a 7 figure salary. 

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4 minutes ago, McBulls said:

Bobby Hurley and Nate Oats had tremendous success at Buffalo (Oats far greater, of course). This success, in my opinion, was driven in part by the same ambition that resulted in the departure of these coaches. We shouldn't be upset- that ambition first carried our program to greater heights than it had every seen. Instead of praying for four days in Cleveland each year we dare to take on the powers of the sport, seemingly any time and any place. We've taken our lumps, but dealt some out as well. The program is in greater shape now than ever before as a result of the results delivered over the prior 6 years.

That attitude was part of the allure of these coaches. They were outsiders who expected more from the players they recruited. The demanded more from the administration. Each left to pursue greater resources offered at larger institutions in bigger conferences while getting paid a salary that we can't match. Each used us to advance his career; each left us in a better position than they inherited and built the Buffalo brand. The perfect transactional relationship, one of mutual benefit.

I'd like our next coach to match this level of ambition. I don't want someone who is just happy to be in Buffalo. I don't give a damn about stability, and I certainly don't care if our next coach is from Buffalo. Why limit our possibilities? I don't want anyone who might settle for mediocrity. I want someone who is hungry. I want a coach who wants to compete for championships. Because the only way this program continues to move forward is if the coach demands improvement and wills success into existence. I want a builder, and I don't care if they don't finish the job or instead hand over the reigns again in 3-4 years. Next man up. Recruit your players, implement your system, impose your will. Defense like Chris Beard? Great. Offensive juggernaut like Oats? Fine. I don't care. Win basketball games, and do it clean. Onwards and upwards. 

As an aside, someone on this board suggested that Bob McKillop was a shining example of loyalty with the implication that he is the type of coach we should aspire for. He has advanced beyond the round of 64 once in 30 years at Davidson. Davidson is an outstanding program, but no thank you if you wish that as our ceiling. I loved Reggie Witherspoon. He was a Buffalo guy, ran a clean program, recruited the region. I was happy competing for MAC titles and hoping we might break through for a tournament appearance at some point. I was devastated when he was fired. I was wrong. Credit to AD DW for having the stones to expect more. As Buffalonians we sometimes forget- we don't have to settle.

I agree with some of your points but I think there's an undervaluing on stability. Sure there are long-tenured coaches that have "wallowed in mediocrity" or "settled into a limited ceiling", we don't want that. At the same time this sort of revolving door of coaches we could be headed towards (Hurley, Oats, next?, next?) isn't a proven model for success either? Having a coach build a program over a number of years would also allow them to establish somewhat of a coaching tree. The Hurley -> Oats -> Hodgson path sort of followed that but all were up-and-comers with limited experience that leave less of a "tree" behind them.

I'm rambling a bit and this is all complicated but I do want more stability than we're looking at now (with continued program growth).

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10 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

I agree with some of your points but I think there's an undervaluing on stability. Sure there are long-tenured coaches that have "wallowed in mediocrity" or "settled into a limited ceiling", we don't want that. At the same time this sort of revolving door of coaches we could be headed towards (Hurley, Oats, next?, next?) isn't a proven model for success either? Having a coach build a program over a number of years would also allow them to establish somewhat of a coaching tree. The Hurley -> Oats -> Hodgson path sort of followed that but all were up-and-comers with limited experience that leave less of a "tree" behind them.

I'm rambling a bit and this is all complicated but I do want more stability than we're looking at now (with continued program growth).

IMO there are two proven models of success for a Mid-Major hoops program.  

1. Get absolutely amazing for a couple/few years in a row and parlay that into a jump to a bigger conference (Wichita State, Butler, Davidson)

2. Become Gonzaga.  

There are no other models that I've seen that result in serious long term success.  All other programs fall victim to the same mid-major issues around sustained success. 

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My disappointment in Oats comes from all the 'sticking around/Gonzaga' talk followed by him evaporating without a word to anyone.

Him leaving for a bigger program, outside of what I mentioned, I'm fine with. Like I said before, we are a stepping stone program and will likely always be one for a number of reasons.

But we've already come a long way. Just being in Cleveland talking with alums, many who were walking on a cloud, who rediscovered their pride in UB because of our success. That was incredible and I think the administration understands the value athletic success brings.

So let's keep building on what we achieved. Might have to take a step back to reload. But let's send another coach to the bigs. (Just tell him, or her, to lay off the Gonzaga talk.)

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10 minutes ago, ButlerAlumDad said:

Sorry, forgot to list Rob as local though I believe UB would be a stepping stone for him. All one needs to do is look up state salaries here and compare with state schools with big time programs. No NYS employee has a 7 figure salary. 

If Alnutt does not hire Hodgson we will be decimated, lose all our momentum, lose our season ticket base which is our family along with many other fans I have talked to. Hodgson is loved and respected in this community and deserves a chance based on what he has accomplished here along with the other coaches. He is the best recruiter we have had with times all over the country. All of the successful coaches once started out as assistants and we don’t need to handier head coaches that have been fired and did not succeed in their jobs. Rob Lanier has had a ties to this community for years along with the other potential candidates.No Reggie as looks and acts like he is in burnout mode and said when he was here that it is too hard to recruit to UB. Every day that goes by is another downward negative reaction by many fans.  Bryan Hodgson gives us the best chance to succeed and as a first time HC would be more inclined to stay here for several years and why we would want to hire any coach who fans are talking about leaving as soon as they had some success.  As each ay goes by all hope is further and further away

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1 minute ago, John said:

If Alnutt does not hire Hodgson we will be decimated, lose all our momentum, lose our season ticket base which is our family along with many other fans I have talked to. Hodgson is loved and respected in this community and deserves a chance based on what he has accomplished here along with the other coaches. He is the best recruiter we have had with times all over the country. All of the successful coaches once started out as assistants and we don’t need to handier head coaches that have been fired and did not succeed in their jobs. Rob Lanier has had a ties to this community for years along with the other potential candidates.No Reggie as looks and acts like he is in burnout mode and said when he was here that it is too hard to recruit to UB. Every day that goes by is another downward negative reaction by many fans.  Bryan Hodgson gives us the best chance to succeed and as a first time HC would be more inclined to stay here for several years and why we would want to hire any coach who fans are talking about leaving as soon as they had some success.  As each ay goes by all hope is further and further away

Hodgson is also in Tuscaloosa dangling a Hawkins commitment (to us or Alabama) in our AD's face so I'm not sure how good of a culture fit this is moving forward. We need a sustained, positive culture for this program.

Maybe I'm wrong but as much as I initially wanted continuity and to play "save the recruits" at all costs, it just doesn't feel right anymore.

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1. Butler lost a series of coaches who experienced success there to bigger schools/leagues (Stevens NBA). Davidson, again, has advanced to the round of 32 fewer times in 30 years than we have in the last two. Wichita St is funded by Koch brother money. Where is our donor of that magnitude?

2. Gonzaga is stand alone unique. Difficult to emulate an N=1.

Stability is nice, but we haven’t reached a point whereby we can expect it yet. More to build first.

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