Money

[squire17]

What do the 16 remaining schools have a lot of? What does almost every P5 team have a lot of? You know it’s money. A lot of money. As Ralph Wilson said many years ago, “Buffalo is a poor city”. And that says a lot about how high you can climb. UB has more than tripled the salary for men’s BB head coach over the past 7 years. It’s still a paltry trickle compared to the P5 universities. Good luck building the next Gonzaga.

[UBigbobby]

Yes.  The NCAA is run by money.  Lots of it.  As much as UB has the profile of a P5 school they do not have anywhere approaching the funding or donors.  This is unlikely to change quickly.  

[xDerekRx]

You can be Butler, Gonzaga, VCU. Its a smaller pool and much longer odds.

That being said we weren't going to be Texas Tech or Florida overnight, or ever. We might not even be Syracuse (to do a comparable rustbelt/northeast big school)

I don't know why we need to be a P5 comparable or build the next Gonzaga tomorrow. Theres honestly only ever been 1 Gonzaga. This success run as been great. You keep building. It takes a long time to do this but UB has the ability. We talk AAC a lot. Those are the small steps you make.

[dutchcountry7]

20 minutes ago, xDerekRx said:

You can be Butler, Gonzaga, VCU. Its a smaller pool and much longer odds.

That being said we weren't going to be Texas Tech or Florida overnight, or ever. We might not even be Syracuse (to do a comparable rustbelt/northeast big school)

I don't know why we need to be a P5 comparable or build the next Gonzaga tomorrow. Theres honestly only ever been 1 Gonzaga. This success run as been great. You keep building. It takes a long time to do this but UB has the ability. We talk AAC a lot. Those are the small steps you make.

The thing that helped Gonzaga and VCU were that they were in good sized cities that didn't have professional sports and they are basketball focused.

We have pro sports that people care about here and we are a football school.  We would already have a basketball practice facility if we were a basketball school.  The football facilities were top priority. 

[xDerekRx]

4 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

The thing that helped Gonzaga and VCU were that they were in good sized cities that didn't have professional sports and they are basketball focused.

We have pro sports that people care about here and we are a football school.  We would already have a basketball practice facility if we were a basketball school.  The football facilities were top priority. 

Yes UB has different circumstances. Almost hard to compare. You have to look more at schools like Houston, Memphis... Not just taking the schools that have pro city names but they have the same challenges being in pro markets. We can never really be a Gonzaga. 

The comparison is hard because even Houston has a much bigger sports market. We are medium sized. There is room for UB to the the #3 franchise here. Syracuse is a town that only has them so they become the #1 which is why they have their ceiling.

[bull_trojan]

Gonzaga is not really a money story.

They eventually upgraded their facility, they just upgraded their practice facilities. They had to shake down the WCC cause they cannot generate any more money.

But their coach makes 1.37 million and is happy to stay. That's the difference and that's what we had a chance to have if it wasn't about the money.

This is kinda like making your QB the #1 paid QB in the NFL, then blaming your GM for not following the "patriot way" because they signed a star DE....one of the major reasons for the Patriot's success, is Tom Brady repeatedly takes pay cuts ... you also have guys like Gronk who would rather retire than play for more money elsewhere...

Money helps, but It's not about the money.

[961819]

Genuine question. What does UB need to do to be able to eventually be one of those big money schools? Like how do they actually become able to pay coaches 3+ million a year?

[squire17]

1 minute ago, 961819 said:

Genuine question. What does UB need to do to be able to eventually be one of those big money schools? Like how do they actually become able to pay coaches 3+ million a year?

That is the $100 million question. Or is it the $100 billion question?

[verandaman]

9 minutes ago, 961819 said:

Genuine question. What does UB need to do to be able to eventually be one of those big money schools? Like how do they actually become able to pay coaches 3+ million a year?

So having a $3Million coach will make us great?

[everlast2504]

13 minutes ago, 961819 said:

Genuine question. What does UB need to do to be able to eventually be one of those big money schools? Like how do they actually become able to pay coaches 3+ million a year?

We can't. This is more of a NY SUNY system political issue then anything else. What would of done it was UB2020, but that turned into a complete dog and pony show once other schools complained that Buffalo would be better and students would want to go there. 

 

For those that don't know. UB2020 was a grand master plan to transform UB by 2020 in to an elite top of the top school, not only just for the state, but the entire country. Plans were drawn up the whole 9 yards. But when money was being requested for grants and such. UBs multi billion master plan turned in to something like 54million split between 5 schools. 

We also lost Simpson over it. 

[squire17]

15 minutes ago, bull_trojan said:

Gonzaga is not really a money story.

They eventually upgraded their facility, they just upgraded their practice facilities. They had to shake down the WCC cause they cannot generate any more money.

But their coach makes 1.37 million and is happy to stay. That's the difference and that's what we had a chance to have if it wasn't about the money.

This is kinda like making your QB the #1 paid QB in the NFL, then blaming your GM for not following the "patriot way" because they signed a star DE....one of the major reasons for the Patriot's success, is Tom Brady repeatedly takes pay cuts ... you also have guys like Gronk who would rather retire than play for more money elsewhere...

Money helps, but It's not about the money.

Gonzaga may be the exception that proves the rule. However, in UB’s case, Buffalo got a good thing going twice. Both times it got short circuited by bigger bucks. Some on this board feel that UB is on the cusp of the real players - in basketball, at least. On a continuing basis. It is about the money! St Bona is a blip of a school - Schmidt earns 900k+ a year. UB is gushing over the fact that their ex-coach was given $837k. He’s gone. 

It is about the money! 

[John]

5 minutes ago, squire17 said:

Gonzaga may be the exception that proves the rule. However, in UB’s case, Buffalo got a good thing going twice. Both times it got short circuited by bigger bucks. Some on this board feel that UB is on the cusp of the real players - in basketball, at least. On a continuing basis. It is about the money! St Bona is a blip of a school - Schmidt earns 900k+ a year. UB is gushing over the fact that their ex-coach was given $837k. He’s gone. 

It is about the money! 

It is 100% about the money no matter what someone says. The A-10 versus the MAC. Just a lot more money conference wise in the A-10.

[dutchcountry7]

15 minutes ago, squire17 said:

St Bona is a blip of a school - Schmidt earns 900k+ a year. UB is gushing over the fact that their ex-coach was given $837k.

And he is one of the lowest paid coaches in the A10.

The A10 assistants also make a lot more money.

[bull_trojan]

24 minutes ago, squire17 said:

Gonzaga may be the exception that proves the rule. However, in UB’s case, Buffalo got a good thing going twice. Both times it got short circuited by bigger bucks. Some on this board feel that UB is on the cusp of the real players - in basketball, at least. On a continuing basis. It is about the money! St Bona is a blip of a school - Schmidt earns 900k+ a year. UB is gushing over the fact that their ex-coach was given $837k. He’s gone. 

It is about the money! 

It didn't get short circuited...we kept it going. Thats what you have to do at every level. Blue bloods lose to the Pros, High majors lose to the blue bloods, low majors lose to the high majors, mid majors lose to the lose majors, high schools and the assistants feed the mid majors.

Circle of life. Few at Gonzaga is coach #3 of Gonzaga's run. We're now on Coach #3. 

[squire17]

3 minutes ago, bull_trojan said:

It didn't get short circuited...we kept it going. Thats what you have to do at every level. Blue bloods lose to the Pros, High majors lose to the blue bloods, low majors lose to the high majors, mid majors lose to the lose majors, high schools and the assistants feed the mid majors.

Circle of life. Few at Gonzaga is coach #3 of Gonzaga's run. We're now on Coach #3. 

Mid majors lose to the lose majors? Excuse me! 😂 

[UBigbobby]

35 minutes ago, everlast2504 said:

We can't. This is more of a NY SUNY system political issue then anything else. What would of done it was UB2020, but that turned into a complete dog and pony show once other schools complained that Buffalo would be better and students would want to go there. 

 

For those that don't know. UB2020 was a grand master plan to transform UB by 2020 in to an elite top of the top school, not only just for the state, but the entire country. Plans were drawn up the whole 9 yards. But when money was being requested for grants and such. UBs multi billion master plan turned in to something like 54million split between 5 schools. 

We also lost Simpson over it. 

Very good point.  SUNY has made it clear for decades that they do NOT want a situation like most other states have where there is one or two flagship HAVE institutions and the rest fight for the scraps and sit low in the rankings.  Like how Ohio State is a great but just about every other state university in Ohio is utter crap (Akron, Kent, Ohio, BGSU, Toledo are all bad schools).  SUNY is set on having their 4 university centers, Buffalo, Albany, Birmingham, Stony Brook operate on as equal footing as possible.  So no matter which area of the state you live in, you have a major university within a 2 hour drive that is no better or worse than the other three.  Then you have the colleges, which again, are designed to all be on roughly the same level.  From an equity of education perspective this is actually a really good way of designing the system to give everyone in the state a fair shot at the same quality of education.  Imagine what it's like in Ohio.  From the perspective of an alum of one of those schools who wants flashy, big time athletics or top 20 national academic rankings though, it sucks, because it would disrupt the level playing field of SUNY. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by UBigbobby

[961819]

Bulls fans uprising against the NYS government? I’m down if you are 

[DooleyBull06]

1 minute ago, 961819 said:

Bulls fans uprising against the NYS government? I’m down if you are 

The revolution will be televised. Free UB basketball.

[squire17]

I’m not going to get into why UB doesn’t have the money. I will state categorically, “UB doesn’t have the money”. If it did, it wouldn’t have lost Hurley. It wouldn’t have lost Oats. It lost both to schools that had WAY more money. No matter who the next coach is, the hook will be there: More Money. For Buffalo, this is Sysiphean.

[UB05]

We have the alumni base for big time boosters, but sadly not the history or tradition yet 

[squire17]

28 minutes ago, UB05 said:

We have the alumni base for big time boosters, but sadly not the history or tradition yet 

Yes UB has the base for big time boosters. Look at contributions by UB alumni - dismal... bottom of the barrel. Oh, wait...not the history or tradition yet. Look up Newton’s First law of motion.

[bull_trojan]

1 hour ago, squire17 said:

Mid majors lose to the lose majors? Excuse me! 😂 

Lose majors i.e. Syracuse

[SGBull]

I’m hoping that these past few years have made the administration realize how beneficial having competitive sports teams is and they will start to put more money into the programs. 

With the new football facility and how much they were willing to pay oats, I think we are trending in the right direction. Hopefully some of the alumni with real money will be willing to make a large donation.

[promotherobot]

3 minutes ago, SGBull said:

I’m hoping that these past few years have made the administration realize how beneficial having competitive sports teams is and they will start to put more money into the programs. 

With the new football facility and how much they were willing to pay oats, I think we are trending in the right direction. Hopefully some of the alumni with real money will be willing to make a large donation.

I hope that also includes trying to move up in conference, getting out of the podunk MAC.

[UB92]

12 hours ago, UBigbobby said:

Very good point.  SUNY has made it clear for decades that they do NOT want a situation like most other states have where there is one or two flagship HAVE institutions and the rest fight for the scraps and sit low in the rankings.  Like how Ohio State is a great but just about every other state university in Ohio is utter crap (Akron, Kent, Ohio, BGSU, Toledo are all bad schools).  SUNY is set on having their 4 university centers, Buffalo, Albany, Birmingham, Stony Brook operate on as equal footing as possible.  So no matter which area of the state you live in, you have a major university within a 2 hour drive that is no better or worse than the other three.  Then you have the colleges, which again, are designed to all be on roughly the same level.  From an equity of education perspective this is actually a really good way of designing the system to give everyone in the state a fair shot at the same quality of education.  Imagine what it's like in Ohio.  From the perspective of an alum of one of those schools who wants flashy, big time athletics or top 20 national academic rankings though, it sucks, because it would disrupt the level playing field of SUNY. 

Both of the statements in bold, by the way, are false.

Ohio State is either 1 or 2 (overall) in enrollment in the US, have the largest athletic program in the nation and get disproportionate amounts of help from the State (plus they give out very little in scholarships).  They are their own entity.  But the other schools in the State are not "utter crap" and are not "bad schools".  You are just showing your ignorance and if you do work in higher education (like I do), then you are poorly informed.  Those schools are good, regional universities and have some very strong programs in some areas.  I know we say "Can't Read, Can't Write, Kent State", but they have a fantastic program on liquid crystals that is known throughout the world.  Other schools that you mention have different areas of strength as well.  

 

Second, while SUNY may be set on their university centers, I never considered them on equal footing.  Having been to them all, I would say that Buffalo is the first among equals.  You say that the centers are "no better or worse than the other three", but I disagree with that 100%.

 

As far as the topic of this thread goes, we can't have a $3M coach in the MAC when the average salary is like $500,000 (or something close) for bball.  If we were ever to move to the AAC, our coaches would then make more money.  I would assume that our split of TV contracts, etc. would help pay for the additional salary.