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8 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

 

here we go

 

Attendance numbers nearly identical to UB. Great job by the community supporting the women's team over the last few years, even with no promotion from the department. T-shirts given out for the men's games, that sold out anyway, but nothing ever for the women. Slap in the face to FLJ making her want to leave? I know that I heard it mentioned many times, but what do I know? Oh well, it was fun making the tournament on the women's side. This loss really hurts.

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1 minute ago, skrabukes said:

T-shirts given out for the men's games, that sold out anyway, but nothing ever for the women.

I have a FLJ shirt from her first year here, some pink UB apparel, a sweet 16 banner, a Victor E Bull bobblehead...

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3 minutes ago, rma said:

I have a FLJ shirt from her first year here, some pink UB apparel, a sweet 16 banner, a Victor E Bull bobblehead...

Care to compare the number of giveaways for the men's versus the women's over the past few years? The students were given how many shirts this season alone for the men, how many for the women? I looked at an empty student section for every single home game, even senior day.

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7 minutes ago, skrabukes said:

Care to compare the number of giveaways for the men's versus the women's over the past few years? The students were given how many shirts this season alone for the men, how many for the women? I looked at an empty student section for every single home game, even senior day.

Active student support was down for both teams, with almost none at all for the women. It’s a shame that they don’t know how lucky they were to have these two teams here over the past 5 years.

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1 minute ago, Jeseph said:

Active student support was down for both teams, with almost none at all for the women. It’s a shame that they don’t know how lucky they were to have these two teams here over the past 5 years.

Now they'll really have to work to get people at the games, especially on the women's side.

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1 hour ago, Jeseph said:

Active student support was down for both teams, with almost none at all for the women. It’s a shame that they don’t know how lucky they were to have these two teams here over the past 5 years.

I never know the ins and outs, but the active student interest was never higher than way back in 2004 + a few years following. That guy Eddie Asbie had a lot of tricks up his sleeve, no idea what he did lol. Obviously you guys killed it with True Blue but it was just wild seeing that massive wave of students for the NIU home game back before the seating renovations.

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10 hours ago, skrabukes said:

Now they'll really have to work to get people at the games, especially on the women's side.

How does it feel to look at a glass that is, objectively, half-full and call it almost empty?  Go back and read your posts here and on BullRun.   You literally opined that one of the reasons she would leave UB is over t-shirts.

I don't know why people don't get that the MAC IS A STEPPING STONE.  She has been successful here...now it is the time for another (better-compensated) challenge.  That's how this works.  That's how this ALWAYS works.

If she leaves, we thank her for her time and...next coach in.

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3 minutes ago, UB92 said:

How does it feel to look at a glass that is, objectively, half-full and call it almost empty?  Go back and read your posts here and on BullRun.   You literally opined that one of the reasons she would leave UB is over t-shirts.

I don't know why people don't get that the MAC IS A STEPPING STONE.  She has been successful here...now it is the time for another (better-compensated) challenge.  That's how this works.  That's how this ALWAYS works.

If she leaves, we thank her for her time and...next coach in.

Ok buddy, maybe your world is all about dollars. I know that is the way that most people look at it. Maybe that is why she is leaving. Maybe she is upset that more wasn't done to promote her program. I don't know what it is, but additionally I can't say for certain that we have done enough to try to keep these coaches here either. We gave them a raise, yippee. They earned it. They won games. They put more asses in seats than in year's past also. No matter what raise UB offered them, a "big program" easily can afford more, and has snatched them away. Could there have been more done for them, beyond a raise here that isn't comparable to another place? Could 500-1000 more people at each of the women's games made her feel that it was worthwhile to be here, versus go for more money and have less support? 

As for the "MAC IS A STEPPING STONE", I hear you. If I could sign up for a new coach every 3 years who will have the success of the past 2, making the NCAA tourney 2/3 years, winning a game or two along the way, I'd sign up for it. Surely, I'd rather have someone long term who could continue that pattern, but okay, I'll buy in to the stepping stone for a moment. How many "good" coaches do you think we can hit on? Can we hit a home run each time like we did the past two? Everyone hires who they feel is the best. Some are great like Nate/FLJ. Some are mediocre, like Reggie. Some are less than that. If we don't hit a home run with the next men's and women's coach that walks in the door, every single bit of the momentum is lost and we are back to the "Reggie days" or the "Dozier days". Our women's program had several misses prior to FLJ. I don't wish to sit in the stands among a couple hundred people anymore. I enjoyed the 2k-3k people at many games this year. 

I support UB athletics (basketball especially as I greatly enjoy it and have for 20+ years) and get quite tired of the same rhetoric spewed by UB fans saying "we can't" and "we won't" because of one reason or the next. We no kidding we can't or won't if we don't even try. I don't consider giving raises with buyouts that equal 15% of the term of the contract "trying". I don't consider 0 promotions for students during the MAC season for women's basketball "trying".

I don't work for UB. I am not a millionaire who can donate 7 figures annually. I'm a "regular person" with a "regular job" who loves his school and teams, and in turn, loves those who are a part of it. I'm happy to donate annually. If everyone who played sports at the school and/or graduated from the school donated even $100 annually, we wouldn't have to worry about low-balling a contract offer, because we'd have more than enough to pay anything. When they leave, a piece of me leaves too. It's why I got tired of hearing about "metrics" all season long. Why haven't I heard that word in the last week? Because it didn't matter. It never did. 31 wins in the regular season mattered, and we were still a 6 seed. Maybe that's why he left. How much better can a team do than 31 freaking wins, yet still get slighted with a 6 seed. Maybe getting only 2 MAC teams in, and getting set up against UCONN and ND in the 2nd round for those teams, not getting a 100% deserving Ohio team into the tournament, maybe that's why FLJ says that it can't be done here. Maybe it's all about the Benjamins. Regardless, I wish to support these teams.

Ok, rant over. I'm just sad to see 2 people who have been here for 6 years and made many hours of my life better, leave. We're better off having had them here, but I will absolutely miss them and their families. I simply hope that we can hit those home runs and build/maintain recent success. If not, it will become a very dark set of days for UB athletics. I'm hopeful, always the optimist, but also the realist.

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I am more concerned about recruits, current players and assistants here than on the men's side. Especially the Australian connection. There are plenty of good local candidates in my opinion. Coaches; 'Rocco, Graham-Kuberka, Redfern, Frost are a few that could keep continuity if the staff gets decimated. Unlike the men though I feel somewhat the someway, there are D1 local girls who will bring local fans out. 

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15 minutes ago, ButlerAlumDad said:

I am more concerned about recruits, current players and assistants here than on the men's side. Especially the Australian connection. There are plenty of good local candidates in my opinion. Coaches; 'Rocco, Graham-Kuberka, Redfern, Frost are a few that could keep continuity if the staff gets decimated. Unlike the men though I feel somewhat the someway, there are D1 local girls who will bring local fans out. 

I follow the local girls/womens basketball scene closely and there just is not the depth of D-1 in this area on a year-in, year-out basis to be able to provide a backbone of team depth or crowd support. Over the past decade, there have been about 2-3 D-1 players per graduating class in the WNY area, with the vast majority playing at low to mid-majors. Summer has arguably had the second most successful local D-1 career over the past 8-10 years, with Healy at Bonaventure being the first.

As for coaches, there are some promising locals in the area but making the jump from D3, etc with only a few years experience to D1, especially a team that has had recent success, would seem quite the undertaking.

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3 minutes ago, TML1000 said:

I follow the local girls/womens basketball scene closely and there just is not the depth of D-1 in this area on a year-in, year-out basis to be able to provide a backbone of team depth or crowd support. Over the past decade, there have been about 2-3 D-1 players per graduating class in the WNY area, with the vast majority playing at low to mid-majors. Summer has arguably had the second most successful local D-1 career over the past 8-10 years, with Healy at Bonaventure being the first.

As for coaches, there are some promising locals in the area but making the jump from D3, etc with only a few years experience to D1, especially a team that has had recent success, would seem quite the undertaking.

You've got Nwora going to a P5 school. DuBerry recruited by everyone, Wanzer, Pfeiffer, Dolan, and a few others. The local scene is now more than COH and South. Go to Park today and tomorrow and watch the best of the best locals.

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9 minutes ago, TML1000 said:

I follow the local girls/womens basketball scene closely and there just is not the depth of D-1 in this area on a year-in, year-out basis to be able to provide a backbone of team depth or crowd support. Over the past decade, there have been about 2-3 D-1 players per graduating class in the WNY area, with the vast majority playing at low to mid-majors. Summer has arguably had the second most successful local D-1 career over the past 8-10 years, with Healy at Bonaventure being the first.

As for coaches, there are some promising locals in the area but making the jump from D3, etc with only a few years experience to D1, especially a team that has had recent success, would seem quite the undertaking.

Don't forget Ciera is local. She played AAU here and even played a few games with Summer (my daughter was the PG playing up)

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4 minutes ago, ButlerAlumDad said:

You've got Nwora going to a P5 school. DuBerry recruited by everyone, Wanzer, Pfeiffer, Dolan, and a few others. The local scene is now more than COH and South. Go to Park today and tomorrow and watch the best of the best locals.

Yes, I have watched all of these players and many others dozens of times. My point is that there is not the depth where you can count on one or a few locals to come to UB every year, or even every few years. DeBerry is obviously a once in a generation type player who will likely play at a national power. The others you mentioned that are un-committed, one is a senior, one a junior(or 8th grade depending on which one you were referring) and one a sophomore. There are maybe 1 or 2 others per class with possible D1 potential.

Also, with the emergence of Daemen as a full-fledged D2 now, some locals who could have possibly provided depth to local D1's will now likely choose to still play on scholarship but get more time right away. 

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12 minutes ago, ButlerAlumDad said:

Don't forget Ciera is local. She played AAU here and even played a few games with Summer (my daughter was the PG playing up)

I was including only section VI/MMA players. Section V, III, etc tend to have greater D1 depth on a yearly basis, even if it is just slightly more. Another section V player is slated as an incoming freshman next season. Hopefully that trend of drawing some of the top local talent can continue no matter whom is coaching the team...even if the local depth isn't present.

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3 hours ago, skrabukes said:

Ok buddy, maybe your world is all about dollars. I know that is the way that most people look at it. Maybe that is why she is leaving. Maybe she is upset that more wasn't done to promote her program. I don't know what it is, but additionally I can't say for certain that we have done enough to try to keep these coaches here either. We gave them a raise, yippee. They earned it. They won games. They put more asses in seats than in year's past also. No matter what raise UB offered them, a "big program" easily can afford more, and has snatched them away. Could there have been more done for them, beyond a raise here that isn't comparable to another place? Could 500-1000 more people at each of the women's games made her feel that it was worthwhile to be here, versus go for more money and have less support? 

As for the "MAC IS A STEPPING STONE", I hear you. If I could sign up for a new coach every 3 years who will have the success of the past 2, making the NCAA tourney 2/3 years, winning a game or two along the way, I'd sign up for it. Surely, I'd rather have someone long term who could continue that pattern, but okay, I'll buy in to the stepping stone for a moment. How many "good" coaches do you think we can hit on? Can we hit a home run each time like we did the past two? Everyone hires who they feel is the best. Some are great like Nate/FLJ. Some are mediocre, like Reggie. Some are less than that. If we don't hit a home run with the next men's and women's coach that walks in the door, every single bit of the momentum is lost and we are back to the "Reggie days" or the "Dozier days". Our women's program had several misses prior to FLJ. I don't wish to sit in the stands among a couple hundred people anymore. I enjoyed the 2k-3k people at many games this year. 

I support UB athletics (basketball especially as I greatly enjoy it and have for 20+ years) and get quite tired of the same rhetoric spewed by UB fans saying "we can't" and "we won't" because of one reason or the next. We no kidding we can't or won't if we don't even try. I don't consider giving raises with buyouts that equal 15% of the term of the contract "trying". I don't consider 0 promotions for students during the MAC season for women's basketball "trying".

I don't work for UB. I am not a millionaire who can donate 7 figures annually. I'm a "regular person" with a "regular job" who loves his school and teams, and in turn, loves those who are a part of it. I'm happy to donate annually. If everyone who played sports at the school and/or graduated from the school donated even $100 annually, we wouldn't have to worry about low-balling a contract offer, because we'd have more than enough to pay anything. When they leave, a piece of me leaves too. It's why I got tired of hearing about "metrics" all season long. Why haven't I heard that word in the last week? Because it didn't matter. It never did. 31 wins in the regular season mattered, and we were still a 6 seed. Maybe that's why he left. How much better can a team do than 31 freaking wins, yet still get slighted with a 6 seed. Maybe getting only 2 MAC teams in, and getting set up against UCONN and ND in the 2nd round for those teams, not getting a 100% deserving Ohio team into the tournament, maybe that's why FLJ says that it can't be done here. Maybe it's all about the Benjamins. Regardless, I wish to support these teams.

Ok, rant over. I'm just sad to see 2 people who have been here for 6 years and made many hours of my life better, leave. We're better off having had them here, but I will absolutely miss them and their families. I simply hope that we can hit those home runs and build/maintain recent success. If not, it will become a very dark set of days for UB athletics. I'm hopeful, always the optimist, but also the realist.

My point was that you were very fatalistic.  Most of what you wrote above in this post, I agree with.  And, of course, if we don't maintain what we've built, it is easy to fall back.

If you are always the optimist and realist -- that's great.  And I strongly agree with you about the fans saying "we can't" and "we won't".    From my recent reading, however, you were seeing gloom and doom on the horizon.

Go Bulls.

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22 minutes ago, rma said:

So either she’s going somewhere else (currently Tennessee, Georgia Tech, and now Marquette are open - none of which I could see her taking) or we’re really building this.

Funny how that works when money isn't everything. 

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1 hour ago, Kevin said:

Funny how that works when money isn't everything. 

I wonder how much better of a job NO could have gotten if he didn't take Alabama.  Virginia Tech would have been a big upgrade, though no lake for his boat.  VT is a decent tier 2 team in the ACC, while Alabama is a bottom tier SEC team.

Penn State vs UB is an interesting choice.  I think there's some decent advantages to UB, but do agree that this seems to not be a "give me money, where do I sign?" transaction.

Location: Her son is in school at GW in DC, both BUF and SCE have direct flights.  Buffalo is 2 hours closer to mom in Syracuse. Advantage: UB, by a little

Program (Basketball): UB women's basketball in recent history is 100% FLJ.  Penn State has a lengthier history. Advantage: Penn State

Program (Overall): We can't compete Advantage: Penn State, by a lot

AD: I'm not sure of FLJ's relationship with ADMA, however I don't see why it would be anything but positive.  The Penn State fanbase is not happy with Sandy Barbour. Advantage: UB

Job Security: I am of the opinion that it would take a lot for FLJ to get fired at UB for performance.  Like 3-4 years at the bottom of the conference or 6+ years without a NCAA appearance.  Penn State might not be as forgiving. Advantage: UB

Salary: Penn State would roughly triple FLJ's salary. Advantage: Penn State

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