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Arguing about the 2019-20 Schedule or something?


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13 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Oh, I totally get that.  Harvard is going to be good.  But they are not a big brand name team.  I would rather play Harvard at Harvard with a future game at Alumni than go to Toronto to play them. 

They're not a big name basketball school, but they've been on the rise recently, however in general they have to have one of the biggest University brands in the country [1]. Of course for us viewers it'd be nice to have it at home but getting a game against a top academic school and potentially a top 25 basketball team in another country is big for the university's brand academically and basketball wise. This game would be an ESPN+ game with a crowd of 5000 if this is played at Alumni. Buffalo instead gets to play in front of a city that is a growing local basketball hotbed (flip on the NBA finals lol), and now gets to say to recruits "look at the cool events we're being invited to play in".

[1] https://www.educationdive.com/news/what-are-the-worlds-top-10-university-brands/107305/

Edit: Brand comparison per Google Trends in Canada in the last 5 years

image.thumb.png.32ded64ae0bffd90aceb8e8f1e6f4b39.png

Edited by trueblue32
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6 minutes ago, trueblue32 said:

They're not a big name basketball school, but they've been on the rise recently, however in general they have to have one of the biggest University brands in the country [1]. Of course for us viewers it'd be nice to have it at home but getting a game against a top academic school and potentially a top 25 basketball team in another country is big for the university's brand academically and basketball wise. This game would be an ESPN+ game with a crowd of 5000 if this is played at Alumni. Buffalo instead gets to play in front of a city that is a growing local basketball hotbed (flip on the NBA finals lol), and now gets to say to recruits "look at the cool events we're being invited to play in".

[1] https://www.educationdive.com/news/what-are-the-worlds-top-10-university-brands/107305/

Edit: Brand comparison per Google Trends in Canada in the last 5 years

image.thumb.png.32ded64ae0bffd90aceb8e8f1e6f4b39.png

Well, that proves it.  We should schedule MIT in Toronto.  That will be a huge win for UB and will draw all of the Canadians out!  https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=CA&q=MIT,%2Fm%2F02cttt,%2Fm%2F03ksy

 

Or maybe look basketball searches and not ones for a research institution...  How about we compare the other three teams in the two games and how UB compares in Canada... https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&geo=CA&q=%2Fm%2F0288nr7,%2Fm%2F05h09hj,%2Fm%2F05gjcbh,%2Fm%2F04q6rqw

Harvard basketball doesn't draw interest. 

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30 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Well, that proves it.  We should schedule MIT in Toronto.  That will be a huge win for UB and will draw all of the Canadians out!  https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=CA&q=MIT,%2Fm%2F02cttt,%2Fm%2F03ksy

 

Or maybe look basketball searches and not ones for a research institution...  How about we compare the other three teams in the two games and how UB compares in Canada... https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&geo=CA&q=%2Fm%2F0288nr7,%2Fm%2F05h09hj,%2Fm%2F05gjcbh,%2Fm%2F04q6rqw

Harvard basketball doesn't draw interest. 

You completely missed the point, being associated with Harvard is good for the UB academic brand and playing in Toronto against anybody imo, but especially a team that may have a 25 next to their name is good for the basketball program.  Toronto is a growing basketball fanbase with no clear rooting ties, you showed that the Buffalo brand is higher than the other 3 there, so why would we not want to play one game there to hopefully increase that even more?  So we can get one worse game at home in front of the fans that already see them there 15 times per year?  In that case you should probably ask Whitesell to cancel the Charleston Classic so us fans can watch us play Marist at home.

Pros: 

-Increase UB academic brand.

-Increase UB basketball brand to a booming basketball talent hotbed.

-Get a good game vs. a potential top 25 team on a neutral (potentially pro-UB) floor.

-Play in a large showcase event that will draw more fans than a single UB home game.

Cons:

-Two hour roadtrip (I see this as a plus because Toronto is a fun city and you get two more games with your ticket).

Edited by trueblue32
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Keep this real simple...Harvard is better than Rutgers. Therefore I rather play Harvard on the neutral floor.

And if anyone has sour grapes about it not being a home game then get your butt to Toronto. Only a 2-3 hour drive. This should be a defacto home game. We should as a student body, fan base and administration do all we can to get there. 

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16 minutes ago, trueblue32 said:

You completely missed the point, being associated with Harvard is good for the UB academic brand and playing in Toronto against anybody imo, but especially a team that may have a 25 next to their name is good for the basketball program.  Toronto is a growing basketball fanbase with no clear rooting ties, you showed that the Buffalo brand is higher than the other 3 there, so why would we not want to play one game there to hopefully increase that even more?  So we can get one worse game at home in front of the fans that already see them there 15 times per year?  In that case you should probably ask Whitesell to cancel the Charleston Classic so us fans can watch us play Marist at home.

Pros: 

-Increase UB academic brand.

-Increase UB basketball brand to a booming basketball talent hotbed.

-Get a good game vs. a potential top 25 team on a neutral (potentially pro-UB) floor.

-Play in a large showcase event that will draw more fans than a single UB home game.

Cons:

-Two hour roadtrip (I see this as a plus because Toronto is a fun city and you get two more games with your ticket).

You're trying to rationalize the game to sell it as something that is great.


Very few people are going to sit through three games.  It is too much basketball for nearly all college basketball fans to watch in one sitting when they aren't at home.


Seriously, how many people do you think will be at the UB/Harvard game?    I would love to hear your prediction.

How many UB fans do you think are going to travel for the game?  How many local Canadians are going to stop in to casually watch UB play?

UB needs to solidify their home fan base first.  They have raised ticket prices at the same time as losing their head coach and haven't shown that they are offering the fans more in return.

It is too easy to be a flash in the pan.  The UB fanbase is too young to be expected to travel.  And even if they do travel, it doesn't mean they will make an impression in Canada.  If 3k fans travel (which would be amazing and impressive, it would still be a fraction that would watch at Alumni.)

Below are links to another event that this same event organizer hosted last year in Atlantic City at the 10k seat Boardwalk Hall.

These were the games in the event:

PRINCETON V. IONA (11:30AM)
PENN STATE V. NC STATE (2:00PM)
TEMPLE V. DAVIDSON (4:30PM)
VIRGINIA TECH V. WASHINGTON (7:00PM)

Take a look at the attendance for the Penn State vs NC State game.  Penn State has a ton of alumni who live in New Jersey.

https://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/sports/local/college/penn-state-feels-at-home-in-atlantic-city-but-n/article_1ad11abf-611d-538f-975e-3a858e945d84.html

Or take a look the attendance at the Temple vs DAVIDSON game.  Temple played closer to home than UB will be playing and Temple outdraws UB.

https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/temple/temple-davidson-recap-score-quinton-rose-dunk-steal-college-basketball-20181215.html

The Virginia Tech vs Washington flagship game didn't even bring in a crowd.  https://hokiesports.com/galleries/?gallery=130


The Toronto arena is similar in size to the Big Four Classic but will have fewer fans watching the UB game than watched UB play in the Big Four classic. 

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The major difference between the New Jersey event you pointed out and this one is that New Jersey basketball fans can watch it any time they want.  I know we're not Duke, but Duke was packing places with Canadian fans for exhibitions against D2 tier Canadian teams.  I can't provide a realistic prediction at this point without knowing how much it's promoted in the city but that would be the majority of the attendance I'd imagine and why I'm not hung up on how many UB fans travel.  If I'm wrong then so be it but I don't see how it could possibly be worse than a Saturday afternoon game against Dartmouth or whoever that would likely replace this game if we weren't to be invited to this event.

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12 minutes ago, trueblue32 said:

The major difference between the New Jersey event you pointed out and this one is that New Jersey basketball fans can watch it any time they want.  I know we're not Duke, but Duke was packing places with Canadian fans for exhibitions against D2 tier Canadian teams.  I can't provide a realistic prediction at this point without knowing how much it's promoted in the city but that would be the majority of the attendance I'd imagine and why I'm not hung up on how many UB fans travel.  If I'm wrong then so be it but I don't see how it could possibly be worse than a Saturday afternoon game against Dartmouth or whoever that would likely replace this game if we weren't to be invited to this event.

So when the attendance is weak (as expected) we will just blame a lack of marketing?

Does that mean that the event didn't get the UB name and brand out because there was a lack of marketing and thus it wasn't a good event?

So you concede that the UB fans won't travel and that this game results in UB fans missing out on a chance to see the team play?  You don't think it will be worse than the Dartmouth game was?  3,573 watched the Dartmouth game.  

Here are the tickets for the event.  Only the lower level will be opened for the event so they already aren't planning for the sale of more than about 10k tickets (which is reasonable since these events don't usually draw fans). Fans are not permitted to re-enter so fans are less likely to see more games.  And tickets not behind the end line start at $115 a seat.

So, yeah, I am pretty sure that this game will draw fewer fans than Dartmouth did at Alumni.  Considering there are 3 games and a complete sellout would allocate each of the individual three games about 3,500 in attendance if no one watched more than one game.  And these events rarely sell out.   

https://www1.ticketmaster.com/james-naismith-classic/event/100056A9A1C12568

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You're too hung up on the attendance number, and I won't continue to speculate on that point.  Even if there are 5 fans in the stands (me and the group I'm bringing), and nobody else, we still get:

-a neutral court game (NBA arena, like Cleveland and tourney) vs. a tourney team.

-More material to point at when recruiting, "In the past 4 years we've been invited to events in Toronto, Dublin, Cayman Islands, Charleston, etc."

-Some degree of brand recognition from any marketing/buzz around the event (whether the average Canadian knows or cares is besides the point, D1 caliber kids in the area will know/care).

-Potentially a national TV game?  Television info hasn't been released yet.

To me that is worth giving up one middling weekend game, sucks for the people that wanted to see Dartmouth but they can 1) go to Toronto 2) watch it on TV 3) go to one of the 14 other home games this year.

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5 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said:

Only $85.84 in US Dollars today.

I got mine for $36 USD + fees, I think it came out to $45.

Edit: oops misread, mine are behind the baseline.  I'm used to it, s/o True Blue haha

Edited by trueblue32
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3 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Well, in that case, I am sure the students will be flocking to Toronto!

1) I had no problem recruiting 4 friends, 3 of which are still in school.

2) Students sit baseline usually anyway and aren't typically known for spending up for nicer tickets anyways ($36 for 3 games is not bad).

3) It remains to be seen if there will be any free tickets available to them like there are for other big events.

Edited by trueblue32
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3 minutes ago, trueblue32 said:

You're too hung up on the attendance number, and I won't continue to speculate on that point.  Even if there are 5 fans in the stands (me and the group I'm bringing), and nobody else, we still get:

-a neutral court game (NBA arena, like Cleveland and tourney) vs. a tourney team.

-More material to point at when recruiting, "In the past 4 years we've been invited to events in Toronto, Dublin, Cayman Islands, Charleston, etc." 

-Some degree of brand recognition from any marketing/buzz around the event (whether the average Canadian knows or cares is besides the point, D1 caliber kids in the area will know/care).

-Potentially a national TV game?  Television info hasn't been released yet.

To me that is worth giving up one middling weekend game, sucks for the people that wanted to see Dartmouth but they can 1) go to Toronto 2) watch it on TV 3) go to one of the 14 other home games this year.

Attendance is significant because that shows the reach in that community.  If this is about reaching the Toronto Community then the attendance is important.

Sure, the game against Harvard is a good game.  But that should be a game that UB should be able to land.  We knew Harvard was going to be good this year before last season started.  Oats could have scheduled a home/home with them. 

The Charleston event is the only notable event.  Everyone plays in events these days. 

If UB gets a nationally televised game then the event is a success.  I agree with that point 100%.  But I don't think it will happen.

My big problem with UB is that they keep telling us that they are looking to build the program and they are always looking to games off campus.

Has anyone got a copy of the contract for the Toronto game to know how much they are making for playing in the event?

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I think it’s a cool event, I love Toronto and Harvard is a nice school to be playing. Much better than Le Moyne at alumni arena. I just dont understand anyone who thinks otherwise 

Edited by UB05
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4 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Attendance is significant because that shows the reach in that community.  If this is about reaching the Toronto Community then the attendance is important.

Sure, the game against Harvard is a good game.  But that should be a game that UB should be able to land.  We knew Harvard was going to be good this year before last season started.  Oats could have scheduled a home/home with them. 

The Charleston event is the only notable event.  Everyone plays in events these days. 

If UB gets a nationally televised game then the event is a success.  I agree with that point 100%.  But I don't think it will happen.

My big problem with UB is that they keep telling us that they are looking to build the program and they are always looking to games off campus.

Has anyone got a copy of the contract for the Toronto game to know how much they are making for playing in the event?

-Attendance: I agree but it doesn't happen overnight, that's why I see value in going there and starting to build that reach.

-Schedule: Sure we should be able to land it but we haven't been able to land it so I see no problem in locking it up anyway you can.

-Events: in name sure but this Toronto event is in addition to our exempt tournament, I don't recall ever being invited to something like this (not the Big 4 classic).  Aside from name it shows our program is travelling and playing good teams.

-Television: They explicitly state "Game times and television broadcast information will be released at a later date." which leads me to believe something is in the works. http://www.hoophall.com/news/torontos-scotiabank-arena-to-host-first-ever-james-naismith-classic-presented-by-citi-on-november-16/

-Scheduling, again: I'm sure they'd love to be playing good games at home, however that isn't realistic with where we're at, maxing our OOC schedule is our best shot at the program reaching it's potential, and it may cost some home games here and there.

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18 minutes ago, trueblue32 said:

-Events: in name sure but this Toronto event is in addition to our exempt tournament, I don't recall ever being invited to something like this (not the Big 4 classic).  Aside from name it shows our program is travelling and playing good teams.

-Television: They explicitly state "Game times and television broadcast information will be released at a later date." which leads me to believe something is in the works. http://www.hoophall.com/news/torontos-scotiabank-arena-to-host-first-ever-james-naismith-classic-presented-by-citi-on-november-16/

 

These events are new.  There didn't use to be all of these single showcase events but now there are a lot of them put on by many different entities. That is why so many teams are just now getting invited to them.

All of the Hall of Fame events say that they are working on TV when they release them.

Here are all of the events that this event organizer hosted last year that got TV coverage (notice our tournament that they put on in Belfast isn't listed since it didn't get TV): http://www.hoophall.com/news/basketball-hall-of-fame-announces-television-schedule-for-upcoming-college-basketball-events1

Since UB already offers video streaming of home games, it is really only national television that is better.  The worst is if you end up with FloSports coving the event.  It is an expensive subscription service with poor quality.

If they don't put all three games on TV and only go with one or two games, who do you think is left out?  Rutgers is a big market team that actually has fans watch even when they aren't good. And Washington/Tennessee will get TV.   I see UB/Harvard being the game that is snubbed.

Edited by dutchcountry7
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27 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Here are all of the events that this event organizer hosted last year that got TV coverage (notice our tournament that they put on in Belfast isn't listed since it didn't get TV): http://www.hoophall.com/news/basketball-hall-of-fame-announces-television-schedule-for-upcoming-college-basketball-events1

Since UB already offers video streaming of home games, it is really only national television that is better.  The worst is if you end up with FloSports coving the event.  It is an expensive subscription service with poor quality.

If they don't put all three games on TV and only go with one or two games, who do you think is left out?  Rutgers is a big market team that actually has fans watch even when they aren't good. And Washington/Tennessee will get TV.   I see UB/Harvard being the game that is snubbed.

Our tournament in Ireland was on national TV though? If they were only to broadcast two, I'd imagine Buttgers and South Carolina's replacement (Bona) are the ones on the outs.

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1 hour ago, trueblue32 said:

You're too hung up on the attendance number, and I won't continue to speculate on that point.  Even if there are 5 fans in the stands (me and the group I'm bringing), and nobody else

I remember Skeete showing up to the last UB game in the GTA.  So hopefully 6 minimum

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What is even the sense of arguing over this. It’s a good game against a top team in a good showcase. May or may not end up on national tv. Either way it’s a short drive, and I can’t wait to see the other 2 games as well. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Why the hell is there an argument about attendance at a one day showcase in Toronto?  It's not about how many Torontonians show up to watch.  It's a game against a good team that may be ranked.  And we're arguing about how many people will show up there?  Who gives a flying fuck?  Let the organizers at the HOF worry about marketing it. Next are we going to complain that if Kent State doesn't sell out their shitty little barn when UB comes to town that it's a great disrespect to the UB brand?  Get real.   And they call my generation entitled...

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$84.50 per seat! Times 2 equals $169...I think that’s more than half the cost of our center court season tix last year. Instead of driving the 2+ hours each way and contending with the bridge, it might make more sense to fly (assuming a BUF/TOR direct flight). Then again...

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On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 5:41 PM, UBigbobby said:

Why the hell is there an argument about attendance at a one day showcase in Toronto?  It's not about how many Torontonians show up to watch.  It's a game against a good team that may be ranked.  And we're arguing about how many people will show up there?  Who gives a flying fuck?  Let the organizers at the HOF worry about marketing it. Next are we going to complain that if Kent State doesn't sell out their shitty little barn when UB comes to town that it's a great disrespect to the UB brand?  Get real.   And they call my generation entitled...

What are you talking about?

By that logic, playing at Harvard is just as good because the game will still happen. 

Or maybe playing at a high school on the NYS thruway or Mass turnpike would be better.  Don't sell any tickets so no fans show up and it would be truly neutral court game.

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