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Jim Whitesell and UB Part Ways


Kevin

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7 minutes ago, Erie County said:

Wow that's a really bad look. If I was there with my family, I would be embarrassed to watch the AD kick out the media.

One time we took a satirical look at Bobby Hurleys anger issues and got a call from someone in the department. After talking it over with the other guys I pulled it becuase it was just mean. But we replaced it with a straight analysis of the problem.

It's a hard call, I'm not going to fault Kevin for pulling it. 

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Well after that shitshow (that I admit I didn't have the stomach to watch), maybe we can focus the athletics department to more critical endeavors, like why we don't have another assistant coach, or why we suck at free throws, or why we don't play defense any more. 

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4 minutes ago, Erie County said:

Kevin's thread was removed/taken down/edited for being too negative and we really don't know why. Many have suggested they threatened his credentials I think.

Then I think everyone was telling stories of UB manipulating the media. The team then went and lost to Ball State and were never really competitive and this thread had more relevance today than Sunday.

I haven't posted much on here since signing up but man it's a catastrophe in here right now!!

Tough to know the full truth without hearing from him I guess but thank you for filling me in! What thread was it that was removed or edited or whatever?

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11 minutes ago, Ivantheturrible said:

Tough to know the full truth without hearing from him I guess but thank you for filling me in! What thread was it that was removed or edited or whatever?

First post in this thread got edited.

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The last time the Bulls lost their opening two conference games was the 12-13 season (they actually lost their first 3 that year).

Sigh.

I loved how the Bulls played during these last several years, even when they lost.  How they are playing now on both sides of the ball is depressing.  

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Can somebody please talk me down the ledge on this hire?

We kept JW largely for continuity - - players stayed and I commend him for that but what else has been positive?

This team plays undisciplined, often uninspired basketball and the defense is atrocious in almost every facet.

Roster changes happen and there are “growing pains” with a new coach but we now have 4 inexplicable, losses. There is NO excuse to get blown out by a MAC opponent after the 5 years of growth in this program.

As a fan and a recurring donor I am, to say the least, incredibly disappointed to see our momentum fizzle our and I am getting concerned about the future.

Please tell me that this is a knee-jerk reaction. I don’t like our trajectory.

Desperately hoping this post gets saved and thrown in my face when things get “fixed”...

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6 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

Can somebody please talk me down the ledge on this hire?

We kept JW largely for continuity - - players stayed and I commend him for that but what else has been positive?

This team plays undisciplined, often uninspired basketball and the defense is atrocious in almost every facet.

Roster changes happen and there are “growing pains” with a new coach but we now have 4 inexplicable, losses. There is NO excuse to get blown out by a MAC opponent after the 5 years of growth in this program.

As a fan and a recurring donor I am, to say the least, incredibly disappointed to see our momentum fizzle our and I am getting concerned about the future.

Please tell me that this is a knee-jerk reaction. I don’t like our trajectory.

Desperately hoping this post gets saved and thrown in my face when things get “fixed”...

It's definitely got me nervous. I was expecting a drop from last year (not going 32-4 obviously) but some of the games have been worrisome, especially the last 2. Again, I'm not jumping off a ledge, but my fingernails are definitely worn to nubs now.  I just can't understand the style of play right now. We have been a fast-paced offense in recent years, but yesterday it seemed as if we only had like a 8 second shot clock for most of the game, everything seemed so very rushed, followed up by easy shot after easy shot for the opponent in far too many possessions. I don't understand how we have been missing so many lay-ups of late. Jordan used to make nearly everything around the basket, but they haven't been falling lately. Same goes for pretty much everyone inside. It's only 2 games, but I surely hope we can right this ship for Saturday. Starting 0-3 would be extremely rough and way beyond what any of us would've thought.

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1 hour ago, Jeseph said:

Roster changes happen and there are “growing pains” with a new coach but we now have 4 inexplicable, losses. There is NO excuse to get blown out by a MAC opponent after the 5 years of growth in this program.

 

There are "Roster changes" and then there is losing 5 of your top 6 players. While everyone is talking up that the players remaining have been with us for some time that's not true for two of the starters who are both first year transfers.

I'm a bit concerned at this point, but I think being "on a ledge" is reactionary

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1 hour ago, Jeseph said:

Can somebody please talk me down the ledge on this hire?

We kept JW largely for continuity - - players stayed and I commend him for that but what else has been positive?

This team plays undisciplined, often uninspired basketball and the defense is atrocious in almost every facet.

Roster changes happen and there are “growing pains” with a new coach but we now have 4 inexplicable, losses. There is NO excuse to get blown out by a MAC opponent after the 5 years of growth in this program.

As a fan and a recurring donor I am, to say the least, incredibly disappointed to see our momentum fizzle our and I am getting concerned about the future.

Please tell me that this is a knee-jerk reaction. I don’t like our trajectory.

Desperately hoping this post gets saved and thrown in my face when things get “fixed”...

Not going to lie, I was one of the more optimistic ones recently, but this game took a lot of wind out of my sail.

I always knew this was going to be a rebuilding year and I typically do not get worried about a few bad losses, but this was bad and given the body language of the team I am worried about this spiraling out of control. Which could have a significant impact (players transferring and recruits decommitting)

Not to sound like a grumpy old man (because I am not that old yet), but it kind of bothers me how active this set of players are on social media. In the end it is their lives and they can choose to live it how they want, I just feel like it is distracting and it changes priorities/attitudes. Also, I understand how this is just how college kids are now, but it seems like it is way worse than last year.

 

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2 hours ago, Jeseph said:

Can somebody please talk me down the ledge on this hire?

We kept JW largely for continuity - - players stayed and I commend him for that but what else has been positive?

This team plays undisciplined, often uninspired basketball and the defense is atrocious in almost every facet.

Roster changes happen and there are “growing pains” with a new coach but we now have 4 inexplicable, losses. There is NO excuse to get blown out by a MAC opponent after the 5 years of growth in this program.

As a fan and a recurring donor I am, to say the least, incredibly disappointed to see our momentum fizzle our and I am getting concerned about the future.

Please tell me that this is a knee-jerk reaction. I don’t like our trajectory.

Desperately hoping this post gets saved and thrown in my face when things get “fixed”...

Yes, your reaction isn't logical.  We were spoiled the last year but all college basketball teams have head scratching losses and inconsistencies.  Just last night UVA lost to BC.

The program that the OP says is so great just lost last night to Drake and is no better than UB right now despite not having the turmoil our Bulls have faced.  I don't know a single program where the fans haven't said they lost a head scratcher of a game they shouldn't have this year.  It's not like we have more history and better recruits than UConn where Hurley is in his second year and suffered a confusing lose to St. Joe's.   All teams have a few of these.  There is a reason why we didn't run the table last year in the MAC despite being significantly better than every team.

The team took a step back as they rebuild and they are still one of the best teams in the conference.  That is what happens when you've got a great program and your coach is doing a good job.

Seriously, last year's team finished the OOC slate with one win over an NCAA at-large team.  And it looks like this year's team could do the same (DePaul is in the running for an at-large).  The only difference is a few setbacks early in the season. 

The sky isn't falling.  The program is in good hands. 

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9 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

I don't know a single program where the fans haven't said they lost a head scratcher of a game they shouldn't have this year....

...The team took a step back as they rebuild and they are still one of the best teams in the conference.  That is what happens when you've got a great program and your coach is doing a good job.

We have 4, 3 have been at home and 2 were not close.

Are we? What indications of that are you seeing?

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20 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Yes, your reaction isn't logical.  We were spoiled the last year but all college basketball teams have head scratching losses and inconsistencies.  Just last night UVA lost to BC.

The program that the OP says is so great just lost last night to Drake and is no better than UB right now despite not having the turmoil our Bulls have faced.  I don't know a single program where the fans haven't said they lost a head scratcher of a game they shouldn't have this year.  It's not like we have more history and better recruits than UConn where Hurley is in his second year and suffered a confusing lose to St. Joe's.   All teams have a few of these.  There is a reason why we didn't run the table last year in the MAC despite being significantly better than every team.

The team took a step back as they rebuild and they are still one of the best teams in the conference.  That is what happens when you've got a great program and your coach is doing a good job.

Seriously, last year's team finished the OOC slate with one win over an NCAA at-large team.  And it looks like this year's team could do the same (DePaul is in the running for an at-large).  The only difference is a few setbacks early in the season. 

The sky isn't falling.  The program is in good hands. 

I applaud your optimism. Bravo!

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14 hours ago, Erie County said:

That happened? Gee whiz. Outside of hate/threats/vulgar stuff, the university shouldn't be doing that kind of stuff

Now that I think about it more, I think on White’s case it was a reaction in part to the media’s negative coverage of NYBI. But the seating change occurred at the outset of the season and it could be argued that he did it to provide premium seats for fans and increased revenue for athletics. Murchie now sits there with several others. 

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Just now, Jeseph said:

We have 4, 3 have been at home and 2 were not close.

Are we? What indications of that are you seeing?

It is easy to feel that way after a bad loss but the season will ebb and flow.  The Bulls will turn out some great performances again.

Ball State isn't a bad team, a loss to them isn't shocking, it is simply how the team lost that is shocking.  So right now fans are depressed and wondering what went wrong.  But I am confident we will see a different result when we see them at Alumni.

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13 hours ago, zigo230 said:

Oh Well,... so much for that whole Gonzaga of the East thing...

The only person at UB who had that vision was Oats and some of the fans. No one in athletics. And certainly no one in the administration. SUNY was also a problem with limits on salary and reduced funding. 

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1 minute ago, UB85 said:

The only person at UB who had that vision was Oats and some of the fans. No one in athletics. And certainly no one in the administration. SUNY was also a problem with limits on salary and reduced funding. 

Oats didn't have that vision.  It was simply a line he told recruits.  He never was committed to it and he knew it wasn't realistic.

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2 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Oats didn't have that vision.  It was simply a line he told recruits.  He never was committed to it and he knew it wasn't realistic.

I can tell you straight that is utter BS! I know it makes people feel better to think otherwise. But it simply complete and utter BS. 

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8 minutes ago, UB85 said:

Now that I think about it more, I think on White’s case it was a reaction in part to the media’s negative coverage of NYBI.

The NYBI was a complete and utter failure.  White was too prideful to admit it but he knows it wasted a ton of money and didn't get any of the results it was suppose to get.  It alienated people.  It is why at his new job he changed his whole marketing strategy to be a complete 360 and marketed UCF as the local hometown team and pushed the local city only.  Something that would have been much more beneficial for UB.

 

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2 minutes ago, UB85 said:

I can tell you straight that is utter BS! I know it makes people feel better to think otherwise. But it simply complete and utter BS. 

That is not true. 

I mean, sure, it is true in the sense that he wanted to succeed and worked hard to succeed like every program and coach in the country does.  But otherwise it was simply a marketing line for recruits to make them feel like they were getting in to the hot new thing. 

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3 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

That is not true. 

I mean, sure, it is true in the sense that he wanted to succeed and worked hard to succeed like every program and coach in the country does.  But otherwise it was simply a marketing line for recruits to make them feel like they were getting in to the hot new thing. 

You. Are. Wrong. 

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2 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

The NYBI was a complete and utter failure.  White was too prideful to admit it but he knows it wasted a ton of money and didn't get any of the results it was suppose to get.  It alienated people.  It is why at his new job he changed his whole marketing strategy to be a complete 360 and marketed UCF as the local hometown team and pushed the local city only.  Something that would have been much more beneficial for UB.

 

You Market UCF as the "home town team" for a few reasons..

1 - It's not the highest level of athletics by a state school in Florida. HE's never going to get any buy in on "we're floridas team" when you have *FLORIDA* AND *FLORIDA STATE* in objectivly better conferences with real history. In NY you don't have that problem. UB as a state school is at the highest level and with far more history than any other institution. we *ARE* the leaders and our only competition for that mantle is a large private school and a military academy. Everyone else in the state has no FBS football, let alone *better* football.

2 - Orlando is significantly larger than Buffalo. The metro area is twice the population of Buffalo NY so you're fishing in a bigger pond

--

The NYBI logo and some of the sales pitch could have been better but the program as a whole undoubetly advanced the department and we are reaping the benefit of that time. Attendance went up, donations went up, performance went up. Our profile raised more under white than it did under Warde or than it has since White.

Warde did a great job laying groundwork, it was not sexy but it was critical. He handed White a healthy Athletic department white handed off an even better one.

As to the "it alienated people" I lay that at the feet of Bucky and Sully who spent years harping on uniform patches and slogans when they could have been introducing the people of Buffalo to Khalil Mack.

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