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Jim Whitesell and UB Part Ways


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2 hours ago, Gxtrex said:

After this year we wont have to worry about Jordan's TO's and poor FT%.  He has done alright overall but unfortunately he cant seem to be "the guy." Also, Johnson and Grant who overall have not reached  expectations will graduate and we have a good young core in Hardnet, Mballa, Segu, Williams, plus incoming highly rated recruits (including Skogman).

Do agree with some of your opinions. Again we were hoping Jordan and or Graves would be our leaders and go to players and neither has been successful. Jordan has become worse in all aspects of the game and Graves has been up/down as each game is played. Segu has been very inconsistent from one game to the next. Williams has only one move that is the drive to the basket and teams know that now and will stop his moves along with him having no outside shot at all. Grant and Johnson have not come close to providing us any semblance of consistency. Why Hardnett is not playing more minutes and why Gallion is not given a chance to play is a question for the coaching staff. Bertram is not close to being able to help on wither end of the floor and Nickelberry looks totally lost in the few minutes he is getting. All that is left is to see how the rest of the year turns out and hope we can see some improvement somewhere from someone on the roster. Mballa looks like the only player that looks like he can become a very good D-1 player. The little that Skogman has played the jury still could be out on him as very slight of built and does not seem very quick. Hope that this team can win some home games to keep the fans coming to games. Go Bulls!!!!

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33 minutes ago, John said:

Do agree with some of your opinions. Again we were hoping Jordan and or Graves would be our leaders and go to players and neither has been successful. Jordan has become worse in all aspects of the game and Graves has been up/down as each game is played. Segu has been very inconsistent from one game to the next. Williams has only one move that is the drive to the basket and teams know that now and will stop his moves along with him having no outside shot at all. Grant and Johnson have not come close to providing us any semblance of consistency. Why Hardnett is not playing more minutes and why Gallion is not given a chance to play is a question for the coaching staff. Bertram is not close to being able to help on wither end of the floor and Nickelberry looks totally lost in the few minutes he is getting. All that is left is to see how the rest of the year turns out and hope we can see some improvement somewhere from someone on the roster. Mballa looks like the only player that looks like he can become a very good D-1 player. The little that Skogman has played the jury still could be out on him as very slight of built and does not seem very quick. Hope that this team can win some home games to keep the fans coming to games. Go Bulls!!!!

Skogman has not played at all this season and is redshirting so he will be considered a freshman next year with 4 years of eligibility.  Hardnett has done very well in his limited playing time and should definitely play more.  Mballa is very promising.  Segu has his ups and downs but is only a sophmore and will hopefully improve.  Williams seems to be all or nothing, and needs to improve his finishing around the rim.  I dont know what to say about Nickelberry... I had high hopes for him coming into the season. Brock as been serviceable in limited time to back up Mballa, but he cant be counted on for much.

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So this year many have blamed our decline on youth/new lineup/lack of a leader. How, I ask, is that problem solved next year?

We thought Jordan would step up and lead - he hasn't.

We thought Graves could take over the team and be a true number one - he hasn't.

Our transfers have played well in small spots.

We have struggled against anything better than a bad defense. We turn the ball over a ton. We don't make FTs or practice good fundamentals on shot selection.

Who fixes it, and how?

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29 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

So this year many have blamed our decline on youth/new lineup/lack of a leader. How, I ask, is that problem solved next year?

We thought Jordan would step up and lead - he hasn't.

We thought Graves could take over the team and be a true number one - he hasn't.

Our transfers have played well in small spots.

We have struggled against anything better than a bad defense. We turn the ball over a ton. We don't make FTs or practice good fundamentals on shot selection.

Who fixes it, and how?

I don't think anyone has that answer, but the three things you pointed out were youth/new lineup/lack of a leader.

Youth - Mballa, Williams, Graves, Segu, Hardnett, Bertram, and Nickelberry are all getting minutes and will be a year older next year. Right now we have 2 seniors who play a lot of minutes and haven't been that great anyway, the third does not get that much PT. Last year we had 5 seniors who all got a good amount of minutes and contributed a lot.

New lineup - see my point above. We will be losing 70 MPG, going into next year. We lost 128 MPG going into this year. We also lost our top 3 scorers from last year. Next year we will have 3 of our top 4 returning.

Lack of a leader - Segu and Williams have been the only two on the team who stay after the game to keep getting shots up for the past two year. This is a sign of leadership to me. They will be upperclassmen next year and I hope they are able to take the leap into leadership roles. Only time will tell though. 

Again, I am not saying we are going to be better next year, but here are three solutions to the three problems you presented. 

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2 hours ago, Jeseph said:

So this year many have blamed our decline on youth/new lineup/lack of a leader. How, I ask, is that problem solved next year?

We thought Jordan would step up and lead - he hasn't.

We thought Graves could take over the team and be a true number one - he hasn't.

Our transfers have played well in small spots.

We have struggled against anything better than a bad defense. We turn the ball over a ton. We don't make FTs or practice good fundamentals on shot selection.

Who fixes it, and how?

In short, the entire team and hard work. 

So we have a young core - each of them has to look in the mirror and say what do I need to work on to be consistently better next year.  There is good athleticism, but each has areas of their game where they can improve. 

Add in a veteran player who can shoot from outside.  I wonder if drop off in shooting efficiency for Graves is due to departure of CJ Perk and Harris.  Having other players to defend last year may have allowed him more open looks.

Coaching staff needs to also evaluate their contributions and look for ways to get player to feel more comfortable sharing the ball and supporting one another on D. 

 

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1 hour ago, SGBull said:

I don't think anyone has that answer, but the three things you pointed out were youth/new lineup/lack of a leader.

Youth - Mballa, Williams, Graves, Segu, Hardnett, Bertram, and Nickelberry are all getting minutes and will be a year older next year. Right now we have 2 seniors who play a lot of minutes and haven't been that great anyway, the third does not get that much PT. Last year we had 5 seniors who all got a good amount of minutes and contributed a lot.

New lineup - see my point above. We will be losing 70 MPG, going into next year. We lost 128 MPG going into this year. We also lost our top 3 scorers from last year. Next year we will have 3 of our top 4 returning.

Lack of a leader - Segu and Williams have been the only two on the team who stay after the game to keep getting shots up for the past two year. This is a sign of leadership to me. They will be upperclassmen next year and I hope they are able to take the leap into leadership roles. Only time will tell though. 

Again, I am not saying we are going to be better next year, but here are three solutions to the three problems you presented. 

I am not picking on you SGBull, but I had to laugh when I read the phrase I put in bold.  I had a bout of deja vu.  

I am not really sure when this board or its ESPN predecessor started, but I have been there from the beginning.  Ten or 15 years ago, when posters on this board would project how UB would do the following year, there was seemingly always the comment that "guys are getting minutes and they'd be a year older".   I know it stands to reason that having experience and another year under their belt will be beneficial, but somehow (collectively) it never seemed to have the impact that the poster anticipated. 

I feel bad that we are back there, to be honest, in "hoping" guys will step up with experience for us to take a step.   

It was over so quickly...but I did enjoy the ride.

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3 hours ago, Jeseph said:

So this year many have blamed our decline on youth/new lineup/lack of a leader. How, I ask, is that problem solved next year?

We thought Jordan would step up and lead - he hasn't.

We thought Graves could take over the team and be a true number one - he hasn't.

Our transfers have played well in small spots.

We have struggled against anything better than a bad defense. We turn the ball over a ton. We don't make FTs or practice good fundamentals on shot selection.

Who fixes it, and how?

I think it's easy to look at these questions as personnel questions - i.e. we're losing X, will Y be able to replace him?

I kinda want to approach it a little differently - how can UB's "system" be changed to accommodate the players they have.  This is an uptempo, frantic-paced offense that gets off a lot of shots.  This also invariably leads to turnovers.  It's also predicated on playing defense, creating turnovers, getting out in transition.  In years past, they had such a potent offense and a very solid defense, that made it easy to overlook the turnovers.

This offense is not the offense of last year.  They do not appear to have - at least right now, all of these guys are progressing so who knows where they end up - the offensive consistency to play like they did last year and win like they did last year.  What they do still have, IMO, is premier athleticism compared to the rest of the MAC.  They massively outrebound every team they play.  

Whitesell did not run these kinds of offenses at Loyola-Chicago.  I suspect that he kept the same offensive identity because it's what worked in the past, and what helped bring in recruits, excitement for the program.  UB does not need to play like they do.  I'm not saying go back to Reggie ball, or play some Tony Bennett defense, but what I am saying is that there has to be a better system for the players on this team.  The only player on this team who really struggles to get to the rim is Segu.  UB should be able to out-hustle and out-muscle every team in this conference.  That's not gonna win you every game, but it's a great head start.  

I'm just sorta rambling at this point.  I don't know what the answer is.  But this team looks far too lost on both sides of the ball at times, takes too many ill-advised threes, that I can't imagine there isn't a better fit overall scheme out there.  Maybe it's time to dial back this offensive gameplan.

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26 minutes ago, UB92 said:

I am not picking on you SGBull, but I had to laugh when I read the phrase I put in bold.  I had a bout of deja vu.  

I am not really sure when this board or its ESPN predecessor started, but I have been there from the beginning.  Ten or 15 years ago, when posters on this board would project how UB would do the following year, there was seemingly always the comment that "guys are getting minutes and they'd be a year older".   I know it stands to reason that having experience and another year under their belt will be beneficial, but somehow (collectively) it never seemed to have the impact that the poster anticipated. 

I feel bad that we are back there, to be honest, in "hoping" guys will step up with experience for us to take a step.   

It was over so quickly...but I did enjoy the ride.

No offense taken, that is why I said " I am not saying we are going to be better next year".

One of the problems Jeseph presented was "Youth". Naturally the team getting older makes them less youthful.

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2 hours ago, SGBull said:

I don't think anyone has that answer, but the three things you pointed out were youth/new lineup/lack of a leader.

Youth - Mballa, Williams, Graves, Segu, Hardnett, Bertram, and Nickelberry are all getting minutes and will be a year older next year. Right now we have 2 seniors who play a lot of minutes and haven't been that great anyway, the third does not get that much PT. Last year we had 5 seniors who all got a good amount of minutes and contributed a lot.

New lineup - see my point above. We will be losing 70 MPG, going into next year. We lost 128 MPG going into this year. We also lost our top 3 scorers from last year. Next year we will have 3 of our top 4 returning.

Lack of a leader - Segu and Williams have been the only two on the team who stay after the game to keep getting shots up for the past two year. This is a sign of leadership to me. They will be upperclassmen next year and I hope they are able to take the leap into leadership roles. Only time will tell though. 

Again, I am not saying we are going to be better next year, but here are three solutions to the three problems you presented. 

I have seen both Gallion, Mballa and Nickelberry after some games. I agree we all can speculate why this team has not been successful and I have had my opinions about all the players and some of the reasons for their struggles but only time will tell if they can turn the year around and play some consistent ball. Go Bulls!!!!

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It seems everyone thought Jordan graves Johnson and Grant would be able to hold the ship steady. They have struggled too.

This teams future has always been with williams and segu, it also now includes mballa and hardnett as well as the in coming freshmen.

We desperately need a couple shooters. We are missing a Jeremy Harris 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Tee4three said:

It seems everyone thought Jordan graves Johnson and Grant would be able to hold the ship steady. They have struggled too.

This teams future has always been with williams and segu, it also now includes mballa and hardnett as well as the in coming freshmen.

We desperately need a couple shooters. We are missing a Jeremy Harris 

 

 

I confess I don't know a lot about the transfer portal, specifically what players would be likely to transfer to Buffalo, but this guy looks like he could be good option.

Brendan Barry / Sr / Dartmouth

He shot close to 45% from 3pt in 3 years, averaged 6 3pt attempts a game last year.  Not sure why he isn't playing this year.  He had 6 points and 6 rebounds against us last year. 

Story about Barry not playing this year.

Edited by DocCas86
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I’ve accepted the fact that this team just isn’t very good and isn’t clicking. We lost our best players and we currently have no leader. Patience is the name of the game. We have to trust that guys like Segu, Williams, Hardnett, and Nickelberry step up in a big way next year. Hopefully Skogman develops and we get productive minutes from him. And hopefully Gallion also develops into a productive guard. 
 

Lots of potential on the team but Johnson, Grant, Jordan, and often times Graves have just been so inconsistent. 
 

Im not giving up on Whitesell as he’s a guy whom the players enjoy playing for but I don’t think he has the team yet on what he wants to accomplish and play in the style of play he wants. 
 

I can’t help but to think about 2015 and where we were after Hurley left. You never know if UB makes a run and turns it around. We will see.

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5 hours ago, mikescherrer8 said:

I’ve accepted the fact that this team just isn’t very good and isn’t clicking. We lost our best players and we currently have no leader. Patience is the name of the game. We have to trust that guys like Segu, Williams, Hardnett, and Nickelberry step up in a big way next year. Hopefully Skogman develops and we get productive minutes from him. And hopefully Gallion also develops into a productive guard. 
 

Lots of potential on the team but Johnson, Grant, Jordan, and often times Graves have just been so inconsistent. 
 

Im not giving up on Whitesell as he’s a guy whom the players enjoy playing for but I don’t think he has the team yet on what he wants to accomplish and play in the style of play he wants. 
 

I can’t help but to think about 2015 and where we were after Hurley left. You never know if UB makes a run and turns it around. We will see.

Making a run is exactly what we did in 15, around this time of year too if I'm not mistaken

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So overall a good road win this evening.  Six games remaining and how we feel about the teams performance this year will be heavily influenced by these games.  One encouraging trend lately, the defense has stepped up.  If the Bulls continue to play at this level it will help their chances even if they have a subpar offensive performance.  Here is a chart of opponents points per possession in MAC play.  This had helped the team win 7 out of the last 10.  Ball St. will be a good test, as they had the highest points per possession against us thus far.

870829946_Screenshot_20200214-2216012.thumb.png.0597ce2144f993e4ee216ab1347fc4bb.png

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It's amazing how many on here wanted to ship the coaching staff out of town and now they're all quiet (especially one or two loud ones). The team is 8-5 in league currently, on pace for a 20 win season, after losing 5 seniors (2 of whom are probably top 5 all time players at UB and 2 others were All-MAC selections), 2 bench coaches and multiple other basketball personnel , and an entire recruiting class (and even a bench coach right at the start of the season). Great coach Coach JW, JQ, AT in quieting the doubters and putting yourselves and the team in position for a bye heading into the MAC playoffs. Big game on Friday!

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37 minutes ago, skrabukes said:

Great job Coach JW, JQ, AT in quieting the doubters and putting yourselves and the team in position for a bye heading into the MAC playoffs. Big game on Friday!

I'm cautiously optimistic but I still think that most if not all of my criticism holds true. This has been a much better stretch but I need to see how we close out the season before I'm going to join the "great job" side.

As I posted, we're trending up and I like it!

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I was wondering how the Bulls' performance on "D" compared to how each team has performed against other MAC opponents.  Also trying to get perspective of trend.  I put together the following chart:

image.png.b0192081a395e5ba3c24f508b7e1e8fe.png

The chart evaluates offensive (Bulls' defensive) performance using points per possession.  The NCAA D1 average is about 100, so below 100 is better than average.  The red dots represent the best points per possession of each team, the green dots are the worst points per possession.  The blue line represents what  each teams' performance was against the Bulls.  As I look at the chart - you can see that early in the season we are midway between best / worst  or close to the worst (Northern Illinois and 1st Ball State game).  In recent games, (Akron, C. Michigan, Toledo and 2nd Ball State game - all wins), the Bulls held their opponents to close to their worst offensive output.  This clearly demonstrates improvement through the year.  It also underscores, how important they keep this up over the last five games and into MAC tournament. 

Edited by DocCas86
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9 hours ago, skrabukes said:

It's amazing how many on here wanted to ship the coaching staff out of town and now they're all quiet (especially one or two loud ones). The team is 8-5 in league currently, on pace for a 20 win season, after losing 5 seniors (2 of whom are probably top 5 all time players at UB and 2 others were All-MAC selections), 2 bench coaches and multiple other basketball personnel , and an entire recruiting class (and even a bench coach right at the start of the season). Great coach Coach JW, JQ, AT in quieting the doubters and putting yourselves and the team in position for a bye heading into the MAC playoffs. Big game on Friday!

The mean # of wins that this board (N = 24) predicted after the OOC, but before the conference games started, was 12.67.  We are at 8 wins and would have to win all five remaining games to eclipse the average.  So congrats to "Great coach Coach JW, JQ, AT" if they win the next five games, to meet the average expectations of 24 people.

The reason why the average was 12.67 was because the talent level on this team, compared to most of the rest of the league, is high.  Obviously not "last year" high, but still high.  

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4 hours ago, DocCas86 said:

I was wondering how the Bulls' performance on "D" compared to how each team has performed against other MAC opponents.  Also trying to get perspective of trend.  I put together the following chart:

image.png.b0192081a395e5ba3c24f508b7e1e8fe.png

The chart evaluates offensive (Bulls' defensive) performance using points per possession.  The NCAA D1 average is about 100, so below 100 is better than average.  The red dots represent the best points per possession of each team, the green dots are the worst points per possession.  The blue line represents what  each teams' performance was against the Bulls.  As I look at the chart - you can see that early in the season we are midway between best / worst  or close to the worst (Northern Illinois and 1st Ball State game).  In recent games, (Akron, C. Michigan, Toledo and 2nd Ball State game - all wins), the Bulls held their opponents to close to their worst offensive output.  This clearly demonstrates improvement through the year.  It also underscores, how important they keep this up over the last five games and into MAC tournament. 

I was actually wondering about this point the other day, so I am glad you posted this.  And you did it in a way that, I think, is informative (i.e. you asked and answered the right question). 

Perhaps the identity of this team right now is hard-nosed defense.  I wouldn't have thought it starting the season (especially), but your data indicates that they have really buckled down in this area.  Someone else posted about Mballa really upping his defensive game as well as the season progressed.   Let's see how they do the rest of the way.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, UB92 said:

The mean # of wins that this board (N = 24) predicted after the OOC, but before the conference games started, was 12.67.  We are at 8 wins and would have to win all five remaining games to eclipse the average.  So congrats to "Great coach Coach JW, JQ, AT" if they win the next five games, to meet the average expectations of 24 people.

The reason why the average was 12.67 was because the talent level on this team, compared to most of the rest of the league, is high.  Obviously not "last year" high, but still high.  

Anyone predicting 13-5 heading into the season was really thinking pretty positively. 13 wins in this league isn't easy. Just because we got 16 last year and Akron had 17 a few year's back, doesn't mean that 13 wins is a given for anyone. The talent levels are much closer than most think in the MAC. A 67% win percentage only gets you to 12 wins, and winning 2 out of every 3 is no small feat, especially the year after graduating 4 All-MAC players. Beyond Jordan and Graves getting solid minutes over their careers here, and AJ getting good minutes 2 years ago (and sitting out all last year), this team didn't have a lot of game play experience at the D-1 level. Mballa, Williams, Segu didn't play very much last year. Grant didn't play tons at Houston 2 years ago (again, sitting out all last year). Hardnett sat out all last year, Brock has sparingly played, Nickelberry from JUCO last year and Memphis beforehand, and Gallion is a newcomer. The players now have gained a great deal of experience over the course of the season and are gelling at the right time, getting their defensive games in order and growing with each other. If you want to knock the coaches, you're crazy. If you don't think that this team is far better now than earlier in the season, you're even crazier. While all teams have the goal of getting better throughout the season, it doesn't always happen. Injuries, fatigue, in-house drama, etc. occur hindering growth. This team is definitely looking like a team ready to roll as opposed to ready for the season to end.

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6 hours ago, UB92 said:

I was actually wondering about this point the other day, so I am glad you posted this.  And you did it in a way that, I think, is informative (i.e. you asked and answered the right question). 

Perhaps the identity of this team right now is hard-nosed defense.  I wouldn't have thought it starting the season (especially), but your data indicates that they have really buckled down in this area.  Someone else posted about Mballa really upping his defensive game as well as the season progressed.   Let's see how they do the rest of the way.

 

 

 

Glad you found it helpful.  I also hope to see this trend continue especially since this team struggles with their shooting.  The offensive rebounding has been the biggest factor helping their offensive performance.

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One area where I think our expectations were likely higher than the actual performance thus far is the offensive output for Johnson, Jordan and Graves.  Here are the combined stats for the trio (MAC Conference only):

image.png.327ffe122df5e466d368d71e999fcbb9.png

As you can see, their shooting percentages are down.  I can think of three possible reasons:

  • Their shots this year are more contested as teams would have focused on CJ and Perk as first two options. 
  • The shot selection is not as good.  
  • They are having an off year as a group.

I believe it is likely a combination of these three factors..  I may need to compile similar stats for Mballa, Williams and Segu.  I believe the team has compensated for the trios output lagging with offensive rebounding and increased defensive intensity.

 

 

 

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