Jim Whitesell and UB Part Ways

[Kevin]

Discuss Jim Whitesell's first season as UB's head coach here

[dutchcountry7]

7 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Whitesell spent MANY years in mid-major basketball. He went .503 overall and .417 in league play. Stats don't lie. 

A good Loyola program, was pretty down for 7 seasons under him, except one year.. He had 4 losing records. He really models Reggie in many overall statistics.

I stopped reading here since this post is clearly nonsense.  
 

Loyola was not a good program before Jim.  They had one winning season in the 15 years before they hired him Jim.  That was three different coaches tried to win at Loyola in that time. 
 

Jim has three winning seasons in his seven years there.  He also was playing in the Horizon Conference with Butler who made the NCAA finals. 
 

Jim made the program respectable and lates the groundwork for the promotion to the Missouri Valley Conference.  
 

 

[BullBoy]

6 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

I stopped reading here since this post is clearly nonsense.  
 

Loyola was not a good program before Jim.  They had one winning season in the 15 years before they hired him Jim.  That was three different coaches tried to win at Loyola in that time. 
 

Jim has three winning seasons in his seven years there.  He also was playing in the Horizon Conference with Butler who made the NCAA finals. 
 

Jim made the program respectable and lates the groundwork for the promotion to the Missouri Valley Conference.  
 

 

I stopped reading once I saw Kevin. If I didn’t know that he was already a hack I would have assumed that Bryan Hodgson has a burner account on here. 

[John]

18 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

I stopped reading here since this post is clearly nonsense.  
 

Loyola was not a good program before Jim.  They had one winning season in the 15 years before they hired him Jim.  That was three different coaches tried to win at Loyola in that time. 
 

Jim has three winning seasons in his seven years there.  He also was playing in the Horizon Conference with Butler who made the NCAA finals. 
 

Jim made the program respectable and lates the groundwork for the promotion to the Missouri Valley Conference.  
 

 

Do agree. I guess it is up to some of us to take opinions from some with a grain of salt. When we see opinions on some topics I have always tried to research and get facts before commenting. Let’s face it today that can be the problem with threads and of course the social media craze that there are many comments that are totally false and just want to create controversy. Let’s face it that it is hard to separate emotion on topics from facts and intelligence. It can be hard sometimes when you are so passionate and have supported something for all your life and in this case supporting UB. Go Bulls!!!!

[Kevin]

53 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

I stopped reading here since this post is clearly nonsense.  
 

Loyola was not a good program before Jim.  They had one winning season in the 15 years before they hired him Jim.  That was three different coaches tried to win at Loyola in that time. 
 

Jim has three winning seasons in his seven years there.  He also was playing in the Horizon Conference with Butler who made the NCAA finals. 
 

Jim made the program respectable and lates the groundwork for the promotion to the Missouri Valley Conference.  
 

 

It should read CURRENT. I edited it. 

Though, I'm assuming you knew that but decided to knock it anyways. 

The rest of the post still holds true.

[Kevin]

47 minutes ago, BullBoy said:

I stopped reading once I saw Kevin. If I didn’t know that he was already a hack I would have assumed that Bryan Hodgson has a burner account on here. 

Why am I a hack? 

Also, Maybe I am Bryan's burner account. 

[SGBull]

As I said in the other thread, Whitesell is the reason the whole team stayed. He had almost no time to bring in recruits.

This is a rebuilding year because we lost 5 of our top 7 players and 2 of our 3 seniors are not playing well. Basketball is a game predicated on chemistry, remember the 2010 Miami Heat? They started the season 10-8, they had 3 of the best players in the league, but it took time for them to learn how to play together. 

I will be worried if at this time next year we are having the same conversation. Typically in sports, when a team hires a new coach, they get 2-3 years to show that they are the right man for the job. 

[Kevin]

8 minutes ago, SGBull said:

As I said in the other thread, Whitesell is the reason the whole team stayed. He had almost no time to bring in recruits.

This is a rebuilding year because we lost 5 of our top 7 players and 2 of our 3 seniors are not playing well. Basketball is a game predicated on chemistry, remember the 2010 Miami Heat? They started the season 10-8, they had 3 of the best players in the league, but it took time for them to learn how to play together. 

I will be worried if at this time next year we are having the same conversation. Typically in sports, when a team hires a new coach, they get 2-3 years to show that they are the right man for the job. 

I think I agree with most of that if the previous coach was fired or unsuccessful.

Whitesell was here working with these exact 9 players last year who are now getting minutes (minus Mballa). 

The coach brought in P5 level recruits (Graves/Jordan/Williams/Segu) and was promoted to P5 with his ability to use his MAC level players and recruit. 

Chemistry and roster was the reason the coach was selected.

 

[dutchcountry7]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

It should read CURRENT. I edited it. 

Even that would be wrong.  Loyola is not doing any better than the Bulls and they didn’t have the turmoil. 
 

take a look yourself...

https://loyolaramblers.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats/2019-20/indianapolis-exhibition-/boxscore/4976

 

https://loyolaramblers.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats/2019-20/coppin-state/boxscore/4979

[Kevin]

14 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Even that would be wrong.  Loyola is not doing any better than the Bulls and they didn’t have the turmoil. 
 

take a look yourself...

https://loyolaramblers.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats/2019-20/indianapolis-exhibition-/boxscore/4976

 

https://loyolaramblers.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats/2019-20/coppin-state/boxscore/4979

They beat Ball State by 12. They've lost once or twice since those and are in good shape, I mean they made the final four two years ago. It wasn't a comparison with the current UB team more than the current accomplishments of Loyola to when he had them.

They are 89-50 under Porter since 2014. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Kevin

[DocCas86]

Overall, I think it is too soon to get overly concerned despite disappointing performance  in opening game. 

Reasons for optimism - Offensively the points per possession (which factor in eFG%, offensive rebounds (a strength) and turnovers) has been trending up over the course of the year.  This is resulting from improved shooting as of late, and efforts on the offensive boards.  I was also encouraged by the reduction of turnovers.

Reason for concern is a creep in Points per Possession for their opponents as well:

So  I will look for them to tighten up the defense in coming games as the biggest priority.

Edited January 6, 2020 by DocCas86

[Tee4three]

You really think that Robinson and freeman chose a school because of ub's 2nd assistant coach and nothing else?

Whitesell should be a topic here, but I'm not completely following what your reasons are

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Tee4three

[Tee4three]

2 hours ago, DocCas86 said:

Overall, I think it is too soon to get overly concerned despite disappointing performance  in opening game. 

Reasons for optimism - Offensively the points per possession (which factor in eFG%, offensive rebounds (a strength) and turnovers) has been trending up over the course of the year.  This is resulting from improved shooting as of late, and efforts on the offensive boards.  I was also encouraged by the reduction of turnovers.

Reason for concern is a creep in Points per Possession for their opponents as well:

So  I will look for them to tighten up the defense in coming games as the biggest priority.

It's still too soon to worry and just watching ub and other teams, ub has good offense for a mid major and better than some major teams too ive watched. The issue this year has been defense. Seems like teams are constantly having at least one half a game with 60% shooting percentages

[dutchcountry7]

12 hours ago, Kevin said:

They beat Ball State by 12. They've lost once or twice since those and are in good shape, I mean they made the final four two years ago. It wasn't a comparison with the current UB team more than the current accomplishments of Loyola to when he had them.

They are 89-50 under Porter since 2014. 

Oh... so now you're willing to ignore one season of results for a coach?  Why is that?  Because they are... in rebuilding mode?

Yeah, who is more likely to be impacted by rebuilding, a coach who took his team to the Final Four on a surprise run and then got a huge boost in recruiting or a coach who took over a program where the previous staff of slime balls told all their recruits to jump ship and go elsewhere?

Just admit you formulated your conclusion first and went looking for evidence to try to support your conclusion.  At least then you're being honest and we can take you seriously.

[Kevin]

2 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Oh... so now you're willing to ignore one season of results for a coach?  Why is that?  Because they are... in rebuilding mode?

Yeah, who is more likely to be impacted by rebuilding, a coach who took his team to the Final Four on a surprise run and then got a huge boost in recruiting or a coach who took over a program where the previous staff of slime balls told all their recruits to jump ship and go elsewhere?

Just admit you formulated your conclusion first and went looking for evidence to try to support your conclusion.  At least then you're being honest and we can take you seriously.

A rebuilding team that took his team to the final four? Lol ok. We can call making the final four lucky in order to try to prove our points back, I guess. 

What season am I ignoring? I ignored zero seasons. I said since 2014 and nothing about that is incorrect. 

Also, yes UB's recruiting coach and coordinator found and offered their current recruits. That's his job, that's what he's supposed to do.

You are also still trying your best to take one sentence about his .500 program from 20 years ago, in which I called him their Reggie, to invalidate the rest of the post, which was the most important part of this discussion. You know since this is a UB board and all.

[UB92]

2 minutes ago, Kevin said:

A rebuilding team that took his team to the final four? Lol ok. We can call making the final four lucky in order to try to prove our points back, I guess. 

What season am I ignoring? I ignored zero seasons. I said since 2014 and nothing about that is incorrect. 

Also, yes UB's recruiting coach and coordinator found and offered their current recruits. That's his job, that's what he's supposed to do.

You are also still trying your best to take one sentence about his .500 program from 20 years ago, in which I called him their Reggie, to invalidate the rest of the post, which was the most important part of this discussion. You know since this is a UB board and all.

Regarding this thread, it is fair to have a thread about a new coach in my opinion.  That's what fan bases do...talk about the coach.

 

At any rate...Ball State has had an up-and-down OOC, with blowout win against GaTech, but also a few stumbles (a home loss to Western Illinois stands out).  It is has been more good than bad, however, for Ball State.   They beat Toledo in their MAC opener and now host the Bulls.   Since this UB team seems to use losses as motivation, I would expect Whitesell to have his guys ready to go and engaged throughout.  But we'll see.

 

Also...what's going on with UB and their recruiter?  

[Kevin]

3 minutes ago, UB92 said:

Regarding this thread, it is fair to have a thread about a new coach in my opinion.  That's what fan bases do...talk about the coach.

 

At any rate...Ball State has had an up-and-down OOC, with blowout win against GaTech, but also a few stumbles (a home loss to Western Illinois stands out).  It is has been more good than bad, however, for Ball State.   They beat Toledo in their MAC opener and now host the Bulls.   Since this UB team seems to use losses as motivation, I would expect Whitesell to have his guys ready to go and engaged throughout.  But we'll see.

 

Also...what's going on with UB and their recruiter?  

He has been let go and they will not be looking for a replacement in season

[dutchcountry7]

30 minutes ago, Kevin said:

A rebuilding team that took his team to the final four? Lol ok. We can call making the final four lucky in order to try to prove our points back, I guess. 

Going to the Final Four is a great accomplishment for Mosher.  But he still is having a rebuilding year.  Even with the stability in his program.

It is foolish to think that the coaching change didn't impact recruiting and the ability of the team to come together with all of the uncertainty and short notice for planning.  But of course you blame him for the recruits jumping ship even while your boy was actively telling recruits to not go to Buffalo.

Anything to make your boy look good, right?  This is all about trying to make it seem like UB missed the boat by telling your boy to get loss, right?

[UB92]

59 minutes ago, Kevin said:

He has been let go and they will not be looking for a replacement in season

So I assume that the recruiting duties have either been given to one of the assistants on an interim basis or everyone is involved (at least until April)?

[Bull_In_Exile]

I'll stick to what I said on Bull Run...

( https://www.ubbullrun.com/2020/1/5/21050436/niu-loss-three-quick-thoughts )

 

Quote

 

I cannot believe I already see people jumping on Whitesell...

Well, it’s the internet I can believe it, but it’s still disappointing. It’s his first season and by most comparisons it’s going very about the same as Nate Oats campaign went. A lot of new faces, a lack of chemistry, some pretty mixed performance in the out of conference slate and a week one home loss to start MAC play.

Don’t get me wrong on this one. I’m not getting a “Whitesell rulz” tattoo added just under the Hurley ink I had put on last year. He could very well not be the guy to keep UB at a high level, it’s WAY too early to know.

The players all seem to respond to him, he lost not a single guy in the coaching transition and did a pretty decent job gathering JUCOs given he had a very late start in the season.

And everything I have seen this season, in the way of short comings, are as easily attributed to four new starters, as it is a new head coach. You have to give Whitesell this season to build things up, at this point in 2016 few were saying “heck yea, were gonna win the MAC” as Oats limped into conference play.

====

 

 

Many of the same voices starting to pile on Whitesell now were crapping on Oats in the first half of his first season at UB. But a lot of people want so badly to be right about calling out the mistakes of others that the rush to judgement.

UB could make 20 wins this season, honestly given the transition of staff and players that would be an accomplishment. If the Bulls find their footing they have shown they can be an amazing team.

[Jeseph]

It's not that I would have expected us to be undefeated at this stage in the game. But are we really calling HOME losses to Dartmouth, Army and NIU "growing pains" or "consequence of rebuilding"?

It's either coaching or lack of focus from the team IMO. These are inferior teams that we're losing to, at home. The other losses are fine, those 3 are concerning to me.

I will be ecstatic if JW rights the ship but I do think the ship needs to be right-ed.

[SGBull]

5 minutes ago, Bull_In_Exile said:

I'll stick to what I said on Bull Run...

( https://www.ubbullrun.com/2020/1/5/21050436/niu-loss-three-quick-thoughts )

 

 

Many of the same voices starting to pile on Whitesell now were crapping on Oats in the first half of his first season at UB. But a lot of people want so badly to be right about calling out the mistakes of others that the rush to judgement.

UB could make 20 wins this season, honestly given the transition of staff and players that would be an accomplishment. If the Bulls find their footing they have shown they can be an amazing team.

I completely agree.

[Kevin]

57 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Going to the Final Four is a great accomplishment for Mosher.  But he still is having a rebuilding year.  Even with the stability in his program.

It is foolish to think that the coaching change didn't impact recruiting and the ability of the team to come together with all of the uncertainty and short notice for planning.  But of course you blame him for the recruits jumping ship even while your boy was actively telling recruits to not go to Buffalo.

Anything to make your boy look good, right?  This is all about trying to make it seem like UB missed the boat by telling your boy to get loss, right?

I have no idea what you are even talking about now. Who is my boy? 

I'd prefer we stick to the topic, Jim Whitesell coaching UB in year 1 so far. 

Not my boy (not sure if you are talking about coach B or Oats or someone else here) or Mosher vs Whitesell. It was one blurb at the beginning of this post. 

[Tee4three]

1 minute ago, Jeseph said:

It's not that I would have expected us to be undefeated at this stage in the game. But are we really calling HOME losses to Dartmouth, Army and NIU "growing pains" or "consequence of rebuilding"?

It's either coaching or lack of focus from the team IMO. These are inferior teams that we're losing to, at home. The other losses are fine, those 3 are concerning to me.

I will be ecstatic if JW rights the ship but I do think the ship needs to be right-ed.

The home losses are what is concerning especially to teams that we are much better than. If those same losses happened on the road it wouldnt be as much of a red flag. I've seen improvement in the offense, would like to see the same on the defensive side too

But lets remember this team was going into the season with brock as its starter until at the last minute mballa received a wavier. How do we interpret that? That they expected this to be a throw away season? Or that the staff is in over their head? Id lean towards throw away season, with the level of recruits we have coming in next season

 

[Kevin]

1 minute ago, Tee4three said:

The home losses are what is concerning especially to teams that we are much better than. If those same losses happened on the road it wouldnt be as much of a red flag. I've seen improvement in the offense, would like to see the same on the defensive side too

But lets remember this team was going into the season with brock as its starter until at the last minute mballa received a wavier. How do we interpret that? That they expected this to be a throw away season? Or that the staff is in over their head? Id lean towards throw away season, with the level of recruits we have coming in next season

 

I just don't get the "rebuilding" argument. 

This coach, was hired, mostly because he was able to keep this team together and not lose any of the core that was built. The last I checked, Segu, Williams, Johnson,  Graves, Jordan, and to a lesser degree Fagan, Brock, and Grant were all here working with Whitesell last season and growing with the team.  This isn't a rebuild of failure which everyone was fired for underperforming. This was a promotion for a coach because of success. That's why he got this job. CONTINUITY and KNOWLEDGE of the team that's in place. He sure didn't get the job selling it as a rebuild to Alnutt.

But now we want it both ways where it's now a "rebuild" when it isn't going to plan. 

This team is coming off back to back seasons winning a game in the tournament and posting their best seasons ever. 

Teams like EMU and Miami lose like 3 starters to transfers every year, while keeping their coaches. This is rebuilding. No one wants to stay or play for these teams.