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Jim Whitesell and UB Part Ways


Kevin

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6 hours ago, squire17 said:

As far as the Bills-Sabres country goes, winning will sell. as the Bills-Sabres country goes, winning will sell.

There seems to be a floor under the attendance figures for both the Bills and the Sabres. Not sure why, because they do suck. Maybe it’s the media. 

If they suck, the stadium/arena will be empty.

I don’t agree. They have both been bottom barrel franchises for ages. The fans show up. And they pay a lot more than my wife and I do for our season tickets for the mens’ and women’s’ basketball games. The Bulls have been WAY more competitive than either of the two major league professional teams over the past ten years.

The closest UB Football has come to winning a National Championship was winning the MAC Championship & Bahamas Bowl, and the closest UB Basketball has come to a National Championship was getting crushed in the Round of 32.

Okay, and your point is? Keep paying the big bucks for your trips to KeyBank Center and whatever Rich Stadium is now called.

We're talking about an NFL team that's been here for 60 years and an NHL team that's been here for 50 years vs. a College Program that's been in Division 1 for only 20.

Ok. I'll admit I might be wrong about fan attendance. I was making an assumption based on what I've seen on other College Programs across the Country. 

My point is for the last 5 years, both UB Football & Basketball were starting to cement themselves into the Buffalo sports scene. Attendance went up, TV ratings went up. But now it's gone (at least for Basketball)

Now we're wondering, can Whitsell bring it back or can another coach bring it back? Not only get back to where we were under Oats but surpass it as well.

I apologize for bringing up a Conference change, but from what I've been reading I'm thinking that might help.

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8 hours ago, bmb2jn said:

As far as the Bills-Sabres country goes, winning will sell.

Even if UB was a Power 5 School. If they were good and competing for National Championships, fans will show up. If they suck, the stadium/arena will be empty.

UB does draw strong TV ratings when they have a big game on TV. Last year during the NCAA Tournament, they drew strong ratings. When the Football team faced Penn State, they drew strong ratings. They will probably draw strong ratings then they face Ohio State next year. Even higher then Sabres games.

The Bills have come close to winning the Super Bowl. The Sabres have come close to winning the Stanley Cup.

The closest UB Football has come to winning a National Championship was winning the MAC Championship & Bahamas Bowl, and the closest UB Basketball has come to a National Championship was getting crushed in the Round of 32.

And wrestling was national champions.

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  • Jeseph changed the title to Jim Whitesell

I am officially concerned that JW could turn out to be a disastrous hire...

Are we going to wallow in mediocrity for the last 2 years of a talented player like Graves (I do not see him returning)?

We just lost to Army for the same reasons we struggled last year. We've seen little hope out of JWs recruiting classes early.

It's only 2 games into an odd year but this looks like the same team as last year I am worried that we have taken a huge step back and with transfer rules becoming an issue for mid majors a rebuild could be increasingly difficult. The fun, winning culture from teams with a killer instinct who want nothing more than to win has complete evaporated.

Walk me back from the ledge...

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28 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

I am officially concerned that JW could turn out to be a disastrous hire...

Are we going to wallow in mediocrity for the last 2 years of a talented player like Graves (I do not see him returning)?

We just lost to Army for the same reasons we struggled last year. We've seen little hope out of JWs recruiting classes early.

It's only 2 games into an odd year but this looks like the same team as last year I am worried that we have taken a huge step back and with transfer rules becoming an issue for mid majors a rebuild could be increasingly difficult. The fun, winning culture from teams with a killer instinct who want nothing more than to win has complete evaporated.

Walk me back from the ledge...

I don't think the hire would ever be considered disastrous only for the fact JW's salary is nothing for a head coach at Ub's level and even in a pandemic it would be possible to get out of and hire some one new. The disastrous aspect would come if you continue to accept mediocrity for years with whitesell

I will say though if more games start to go the way the army game went will calls or whispers be heard to maybe right the wrong and bring hodgson back? Or go in a completely different direction

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I will again say what I said in another thread.  JW is a good dude and a hell of an assistant coach, but he is our head coach because of administration's refusal to put money into our basketball programs.

This is the way it will be under Alnutt...He is a football guy through and through... If Lance leaves for another job after this year, I guarantee Alnutt will not be cheap with that hire.

 

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6 hours ago, Jeseph said:

I am officially concerned that JW could turn out to be a disastrous hire...

Are we going to wallow in mediocrity for the last 2 years of a talented player like Graves (I do not see him returning)?

We just lost to Army for the same reasons we struggled last year. We've seen little hope out of JWs recruiting classes early.

It's only 2 games into an odd year but this looks like the same team as last year I am worried that we have taken a huge step back and with transfer rules becoming an issue for mid majors a rebuild could be increasingly difficult. The fun, winning culture from teams with a killer instinct who want nothing more than to win has complete evaporated.

Walk me back from the ledge...

I said it early on last season, we are in search for an identity. And that saying is carrying over to this year too. 

I like Jayvon Graves a lot, but, he really isn't a leader. He does not lead and that's not his personality. He is an inconsistent shooter, not a good free throw shooter, and is just okay on the defensive side of the ball. We just just have anyone right now at guard who can take the pressure off of him. He's the type of player who will be red hot and shoot 25 one game then come back 3 days later and score 7, thats just who he is. The main thing I think we need is just to find consistency shooting the ball as a whole.

I'm not gonna get too worried yet because Mballa is hurt, Chanse Robinson is hurt, and it's early in the season where we have to figure out the rotation and who gets put where and how many minutes a player should be getting. 

I think as the season goes on into conference play we will see what this team really is. But I think if we had Mballa and Robinson that game, we would have won. With a full roster I think we are slightly better than last season.

My concerns right now early are poor shooting and bad free throws and we need to move the ball better on offense.

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2 minutes ago, mikescherrer8 said:

I said it early on last season, we are in search for an identity. And that saying is carrying over to this year too. 

My concerns right now early are poor shooting and bad free throws and we need to move the ball better on offense.

This is just it. There's no sign that anything that needed improvement is headed in that direction. We ended last season with a home playoff loss (Reggie never even did that). How do we not start the season looking to prove that UB is still a force to be reckoned with?

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1 minute ago, Jeseph said:

This is just it. There's no sign that anything that needed improvement is headed in that direction. We ended last season with a home playoff loss (Reggie never even did that). How do we not start the season looking to prove that UB is still a force to be reckoned with?

I think injuries and it just being early in the season is a factor on why we aren't seeing immediate progress. We are just gonna have to get a bigger sample size to really figure out how good the team is, especially when we have a full roster on hand. 

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9 hours ago, Erie County said:

Wasn't this the thread that got wicked heated? I agree with everything you said here though. I think he's like 1 for 7 on recruits. He's playing walk-ons over some of the players he brought in for this class too.

I don't understand the statement about playing walk-ons over players brought in. Bivens played 1 minute at the end of the half due to foul trouble. Who was he playing over?  Chanse is hurt,  Zachery is suspended (or whatever the terms is that is being used) and Brewton isn't playing this season (from what we've been told). Regardless of the first two games, this team needs to be ready for MAC play, as it's nearly the entire schedule this year (and starts this weekend already). Hopefully Mballa will be ready to go or else we'll definitely be in for a long season. Getting Chanse back (and as good as billed) wouldn't hurt either! We'll know more in the next few games, especially after playing BG.

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23 hours ago, Jeseph said:

I am officially concerned that JW could turn out to be a disastrous hire...

Are we going to wallow in mediocrity for the last 2 years of a talented player like Graves (I do not see him returning)?

We just lost to Army for the same reasons we struggled last year. We've seen little hope out of JWs recruiting classes early.

It's only 2 games into an odd year but this looks like the same team as last year I am worried that we have taken a huge step back and with transfer rules becoming an issue for mid majors a rebuild could be increasingly difficult. The fun, winning culture from teams with a killer instinct who want nothing more than to win has complete evaporated.

Walk me back from the ledge...

Jeenathan looks to have taken a big step. Graves is who he is, I’d like to see more consistency but he’s still a very good player. Brock and Mballa on the court at the same time seemed very effective. Reinforcements from his recruits haven’t had the opportunity to make an impact. Robinson is hurt, Brewton appears to not have a waiver, and Zachary is obviously in limbo. It’s tough to blame Whitesell for those 3 not having an impact. If you want to say Skogman and Gallion should have more of an impact at this point that’s fine, but they’re both still 2 games into their sophomore season. I’m not thrilled with losing to army twice in two years, but I want to see how we do against MAC competition this year before getting too frustrated. FWIW I think if Mballa played we would have beaten army 

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I am not a Whitesell fan (heck...this 18 page thread has the evidence).  But even I am giving this a few more games considering Robinson is hurt and Mballa didn't play versus Army.

Let's see how the team competes at BGSU, regardless of who is healthy enough to play.  Unlike previous years, this is a MAC game early on, so I don't think this is one where we can use to figure out the rotation.

There will be plenty of time to add to this thread should things go south.  But let's not get there prematurely.

 

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I mean, we all love Nate and his team got wrecked last night. I doubt that their people are crushing his recruits, after several of them haven't played up to the preconceived standards after two games. On paper, our recruits have been "good gets", so to criticize the staff for last year's class that was 100% new after losing the original class followed by this class and their accolades seems misguided. It's been an odd year for everyone, so going after the coach seems very premature.

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6 minutes ago, skrabukes said:

I mean, we all love Nate and his team got wrecked last night. I doubt that their people are crushing his recruits, after several of them haven't played up to the preconceived standards after two games. On paper, our recruits have been "good gets", so to criticize the staff for last year's class that was 100% new after losing the original class followed by this class and their accolades seems misguided. It's been an odd year for everyone, so going after the coach seems very premature.

We saw little change to the playing style, preparation, play at home, defensive intensity, shooting, or (perceived) attitude throughout the season last year. We're starting this year with, IMO, the same issues (save for playing at home). At what point are these statements fair to make about JW and his coaching?

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17 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

We saw little change to the playing style, preparation, play at home, defensive intensity, shooting, or (perceived) attitude throughout the season last year. We're starting this year with, IMO, the same issues (save for playing at home). At what point are these statements fair to make about JW and his coaching?

I would say the answer is this year, but I think after two games around a pandemic is a little premature.  Expressing concerns is one thing, but I think this team deserves an opportunity to get comfortable in a season that is anything, but normal.

I'd like to give this team December to see improvement against some very difficult competition.  This might not always equate to wins, but this is an important month for this team.  

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I also think the team and Whitesell should get the benefit of the doubt.  There's nothing normal going on in the world and in sports.  It's early and hopefully there's improvement and more solid recruits in the pipeline.

Specifically in college hoops there's all kinds of wacky non-conference results.  Just yesterday George Washington lost at home to Hampton.   Georgetown lost at home to Navy (who hadn't beaten a Big East team in 35 years).  Kentucky lost to Richmond..  I'm sure UB losing to Army without one of our best players is not the biggest upset out there.

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1 hour ago, zigo230 said:

I also think the team and Whitesell should get the benefit of the doubt.  There's nothing normal going on in the world and in sports.  It's early and hopefully there's improvement and more solid recruits in the pipeline.

Specifically in college hoops there's all kinds of wacky non-conference results.  Just yesterday George Washington lost at home to Hampton.   Georgetown lost at home to Navy (who hadn't beaten a Big East team in 35 years).  Kentucky lost to Richmond..  I'm sure UB losing to Army without one of our best players is not the biggest upset out there.

I was literally going to post the same thing. Yes it sucks but teams are getting upset all over the country, we can’t dwell on one loss. I do believe if we had Mballa the game would be a lot different however 

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53 minutes ago, Dabulls said:

I was literally going to post the same thing. Yes it sucks but teams are getting upset all over the country, we can’t dwell on one loss. I do believe if we had Mballa the game would be a lot different however 

Don't forget it was without Chanse as well. 

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Another late scoreless streak. Another game with limited (none) production outside of top-3 and no leader who is ready to carry us.

Don't worry though, the Insta stories are full of highlights #WinningCulture!

I'll keep waiting for the team to "find an identity".

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20 minutes ago, mikescherrer8 said:

He did play 10 minutes yesterday, but was a complete non-factor. Wonder if his injury is still lingering.

He looked very much like a freshman playing his first college game with a couple glaring mistakes. I think we're all still excited about his future.

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14 minutes ago, Erie County said:

They have zero ability to score beside the big 3 without Mballa. 

Mballa wasn't great in his first game of the season, but man do they miss him. I can't sit and say either game would have gone there way though. 

The way they've finished back to back 4 minutes is dumbfounding. 

They have a get right sequence against Mercer and then a bad Miami team. If they don't look right in these, we have a much bigger discussion to have on this thread I think. 

I know this is a bit off topic but when is the NCAA reviewing waiver eligibility, having Brewton available would really help us

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