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Jim Whitesell and UB Part Ways


Kevin

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4 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

Another double digit home loss. Smoked by a team missing one of their top scorers and dominated by a single player.

excellent improvement!

To be fair it was a very close game until a couple bad swings at the end caused the blowout. The biggest issues IMO:

- Graves was cold. Missed plenty of shots he normally makes, was slipping on the floor again causing turnovers

- Segu struggled trying to cover Jackson. Jordan out with 4 fouls was a killer.

- too much driving wildly to the net and chucking up prayer layups. Johnson seems to do this quite a bit and can’t seem to draw fouls on them. Caruthers is the only guy I’ve ever seen to do this regularly and pull it off. 

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3 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Do we have more home MAC loses under Whitesell than the last three years combined? 
 

it’s hard to see the growth plan here 

Do you think with Oats and this roster we’d have more success? I’m not sure we would, Whitesell plays VERY similar to the way Nate did. We lost 5 of our best, most experienced players. If we still look like this next season with Williams, Segu, and Mballa as juniors and Graves as a senior I’ll agree with you. 

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5 minutes ago, UB05 said:

Do you think with Oats and this roster we’d have more success? I’m not sure we would, Whitesell plays VERY similar to the way Nate did. We lost 5 of our best, most experienced players. If we still look like this next season with Williams, Segu, and Mballa as juniors and Graves as a senior I’ll agree with you. 

I love Oats, but I agree I don't think we would be that much better with him if we had this same roster. Last year Alabama was 18-16 (8-10), this year they are 15-13 (7-8). A coach can only do so much without Top 25 level talent that we had last year.

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6 minutes ago, UB05 said:

Do you think with Oats and this roster we’d have more success?

My answer is a loud yes. Here’s why...1) we have 2 games left and Whitesell is still tinkering with the starting lineup. Which takes to point 2) our rotation is still a question mark. There’s no rhyme or reason as to who comes off the bench and when and for how long. Whitesell seems to be grasping for answers. As a result our defense suffers bc there’s no cohesion. 3) he makes very questionable in game decisions...example under 5 minutes left in today’s game and Jordan and Mballa are on the bench?! You play them despite the 4 fouls. Defensive liabilities shouldn’t be on the floor when the game is 73-71. That’s coaching. 4) no improvement throughout the season against things like the zone defense. Again that’s coaching. 
 

Some things fall on the players sure. If we don’t have a go to guy or a leader that’s on the players for no stepping up rather than the coach. The lack of focus and fire is on the players. But then again maybe we don’t have a go to guy bc the coaches don’t put the team in the best position to win. This team in a week reverted back to the team we were in January. Just when I thought we were peaking. 

At this point we are who we are and that’s an inconsistent team.

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1 hour ago, DooleyBull06 said:

My answer is a loud yes. Here’s why...1) we have 2 games left and Whitesell is still tinkering with the starting lineup. Which takes to point 2) our rotation is still a question mark. There’s no rhyme or reason as to who comes off the bench and when and for how long. Whitesell seems to be grasping for answers. As a result our defense suffers bc there’s no cohesion. 3) he makes very questionable in game decisions...example under 5 minutes left in today’s game and Jordan and Mballa are on the bench?! You play them despite the 4 fouls. Defensive liabilities shouldn’t be on the floor when the game is 73-71. That’s coaching. 4) no improvement throughout the season against things like the zone defense. Again that’s coaching. 
 

Some things fall on the players sure. If we don’t have a go to guy or a leader that’s on the players for no stepping up rather than the coach. The lack of focus and fire is on the players. But then again maybe we don’t have a go to guy bc the coaches don’t put the team in the best position to win. This team in a week reverted back to the team we were in January. Just when I thought we were peaking. 

At this point we are who we are and that’s an inconsistent team.

Good post

I was wondering why at least mballa wasn't in the game; I get you want him for the final minute or 2 but whitesell waited too long to bring him back. Brock was getting murdered on screens

We got out coached today; Groce made good adjustments without cheese and had a game plan that attacked our weaknesses

We have sucked vs a zone defense for a couple seasons now, not just a this year thing(which does point to the coaches as they have been here). I was always surprised more teams didn't play it against us last year

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12 minutes ago, Tee4three said:

Good post

I was wondering why at least mballa wasn't in the game; I get you want him for the final minute or 2 but whitesell waited too long to bring him back. Brock was getting murdered on screens

We got out coached today; Groce made good adjustments without cheese and had a game plan that attacked our weaknesses

We have sucked vs a zone defense for a couple seasons now, not just a this year thing(which does point to the coaches as they have been here). I was always surprised more teams didn't play it against us last year

We did beat both Syracuse and EMU last year. Plus teams that don’t zone tend not to run it just for poops bc they will get burned. Except this year we can’t even burn teams that don’t play it when they deploy it against us. Coaching.

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4 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

We did beat both Syracuse and EMU last year. Plus teams that don’t zone tend not to run it just for poops bc they will get burned. Except this year we can’t even burn teams that don’t play it when they deploy it against us. Coaching.

Just because we won doesn't mean we didn't struggle against it. In the syracuse game our defense won that game. If I remember correctly we were down 10 at the half and held cuse scoreless in the final 4 minutes to win. And the game against emu there, we were down for bit until turnovers and fast break points beat them down

But yeah this year teams just throw it at us because they know it will work, which does point towards coaching. And it is maddening

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6 hours ago, Erie County said:

Was there a tweet today about losing due to how many games they played in how many days? 

I fail to understand why someone who considers themselves a "UB fan" would constantly knock the school/team/coaches. It's one thing to be critical of them, but the never ending downing of them doesn't make sense to me. How does putting them down with every single post help in the efforts? Have you bought tickets and been at every game getting behind the team, donated to the athletics fund to try to allow for increased opportunities, etc? Instead of constantly pushing your negatives, how about trying to help out in some way?

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The thing that bothers me more than anything this year is that even after losses, all the players put up highlights on social media within hours after a loss. When I was growing up playing sports I would never do that. Maybe it is just how college kids are now though.

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2 minutes ago, SGBull said:

The thing that bothers me more than anything this year is that even after losses, all the players put up highlights on social media within hours after a loss. When I was growing up playing sports I would never do that. Maybe it is just how college kids are now though.

I think that's just how it is now (your last line). I'm with you, I never would've been like that either. Changing times. 

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3 hours ago, skrabukes said:

I think that's just how it is now (your last line). I'm with you, I never would've been like that either. Changing times. 

Do agree that the sport culture has changed dramatically. I look at the fact when players are posting their stats even after losses they are thinking more like individuals not thinking of the team first attitude. Our family does not like when a player makes a shot and makes a gesture or yells something to the opposing bench. Also when we went to the Bona/Duquesne game a Duquesne player after Duquesne had the game in hand was yelling and gesturing toward the Bona students and fans and was being held back by the Duquesne coaches but kept going toward the fans and he did that running all the way from the court. We were brought up playing sports to be humble in victory. Again we love the college game and continue to support  our UB teams. Truly changing times and hope for a win against Miami on Tuesday. Go Bulls!!!!

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It shouldn't be an issue if someone is upset at the hire of whitesell, but what is the reason a good number of people think hodgson would have been a better hire? The guy has never been a head coach at any level. I think he will get a shot one day but is no where near ready.

Everyone wants to see the path that ub athletics and basketball in particular is headed continue but a Hodgson hire would have been a huge risk of making us look like a joke

In my opinion the guy that people should be upset that we didn't hire got hired at Georgia st. Rob Lanier. Has ties to the area, has power/major conference ties has been a head coach and can recruit.

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23 hours ago, Tee4three said:

It shouldn't be an issue if someone is upset at the hire of whitesell, but what is the reason a good number of people think hodgson would have been a better hire? The guy has never been a head coach at any level. I think he will get a shot one day but is no where near ready.

Everyone wants to see the path that ub athletics and basketball in particular is headed continue but a Hodgson hire would have been a huge risk of making us look like a joke

In my opinion the guy that people should be upset that we didn't hire got hired at Georgia st. Rob Lanier. Has ties to the area, has power/major conference ties has been a head coach and can recruit.

Exactly. Well said. 

Many on here think I was Hodgson's PR department. 

I was team Rob Lanier from the start and I have sources on good accounts that said he was our top candidate. He however was always going to go to Georgia State. I do believe Alnutt's hands were tied with brining in an external candidate at Oats' salary range.

Instead we keep the 1M in the bank and wont even use it for a CBI or CIT. 

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43 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Exactly. Well said. 

Many on here think I was Hodgson's PR department. 

I was team Rob Lanier from the start and I have sources on good accounts that said he was our top candidate. He however was always going to go to Georgia State. I do believe Alnutt's hands were tied with brining in an external candidate at Oats' salary range.

Instead we keep the 1M in the bank and wont even use it for a CBI or CIT. 

If Lanier was here and had a similar record to Whitesell, would people here be jumping all over him? I mean, Georgia State is only 18-12 this season (had 28 and 24 wins the last 2 seasons), so how is that any different than this year's UB record of 18-11? I don't know Georgia State or him well enough to question him or praise him, but I still prefer to stand by the coaches and players that are on UB.

Surely we all wish they were winning everything, but all we as UB fans can do is support our team. No one here (as far as I am aware) is able to make any decisions on hiring/firing/transfer/etc. so backing our squad is the best that we can give, unless we are either a) fair-weather fans or b) bandwagon hoppers. Since I was here as a student, athlete and now old guy in the stands at every game, I prefer to simply support the blue and white (or black or grey - yuck).

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On 3/1/2020 at 1:28 PM, Tee4three said:

It shouldn't be an issue if someone is upset at the hire of whitesell, but what is the reason a good number of people think hodgson would have been a better hire? The guy has never been a head coach at any level. I think he will get a shot one day but is no where near ready.

Everyone wants to see the path that ub athletics and basketball in particular is headed continue but a Hodgson hire would have been a huge risk of making us look like a joke

In my opinion the guy that people should be upset that we didn't hire got hired at Georgia st. Rob Lanier. Has ties to the area, has power/major conference ties has been a head coach and can recruit.

The only thing Hodgson would have done is likely keep most of not all of the recruits. Whether that would have made a difference no one can say just like if he or Whitesell would be the more successful coach. 
 

My concern is when turnover occurs and success isn’t maintained it’s far easier to fall back to Reggie ball than the success UB enjoyed the last six years. That’s why this year despite the turnover has always been a critical one. Let’s hope we have a run in us!

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The jury is still out on Whitesell. That said, I look at Conference games and can point to 2, possibly 3, stinkers: the first Ball St game, the second Ohio game, and the meltdown in the last 5 minutes of the second Akron game. While team free throw shooting has improved, team rebounding in the last two games has suffered - both losses at a critical period of the season. Three point shooting has been inconsistent but generally poor. I don’t think that Buffalo’s defense scares anyone. Kenpom, from November through March, has had 5 different MAC teams going to March Madness: Ball St, Toledo, Kent, Bowling Green, and Akron. He’s had them anywhere from a 12th seed to a 15th seed. In other words, this thing is up for grabs. I would be surprised if Western Michigan won it all...and that’s about it.

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11 hours ago, UB85 said:

The only thing Hodgson would have done is likely keep most of not all of the recruits. Whether that would have made a difference no one can say just like if he or Whitesell would be the more successful coach. 
 

My concern is when turnover occurs and success isn’t maintained it’s far easier to fall back to Reggie ball than the success UB enjoyed the last six years. That’s why this year despite the turnover has always been a critical one. Let’s hope we have a run in us!

Right to have that concern, getting to Cleveland and winning a game there would be huge for the continuation of the program

I'm hoping I get to drive to cleveland March 14th

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18 hours ago, Tee4three said:

 

I'm hoping I get to drive to cleveland March 14th

I'm holding out until late next Thursday evening (assuming we get to Thursday).  If either team wins Thursday night, we'll reserve for Friday/Saturday nights right away.  Make the drive on Friday a.m.  

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23 minutes ago, ChubbyHubby said:

I'm holding out until late next Thursday evening (assuming we get to Thursday).  If either team wins Thursday night, we'll reserve for Friday/Saturday nights right away.  Make the drive on Friday a.m.  

We're leaving Thursday morning (assuming we're in the 4/5 game). If we get the 3/6 game, we won't have to leave until afternoon and I can go to work instead of taking off, as it'd be the last game of the night. Hopefully I'm leaving Thursday morning!

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I was thinking about how much the top score's points per game  influences the teams overall performance.  I also, tried to estimate the impact of Jayvon's performance (2P%, 3P%, FT%) in 2020 being below how he performed in 2019.  The chart below shows MAC conference results Leading Scorer Points per game vs team win percentage.  This was generally pretty correlated.  To estimate the impact of Graves shooting percentage decline, I adjusted his points per game to reflect him taking the same number of shots, but shooting as he had in 2019.  This would move his points per game from 16.8 up to 19.8.  Based on the correlation observed,  I estimate that the slip in Graves performance resulted in one fewer win in 2020.  

image.png.97ba1008c8d9e04e8cb5b6c6c6df912c.png

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This is my first post. I’ve been following this board for a long time, but finally created an account. I’ve been going to games since Coach Weatherspoon took over the program when we hosted NC. 

I just finished listening to Coach Whitesell on the UB basketball radio show. I like Jim. He seems to be authentic and that’s certainly important quality in life. However passion is just as important IMO and that seems lacking at times with Coach. I was frustrated how satisfied he sounded by just beating Miami on Saturday. Coach Oats set a new standard for our program last year and we seem to have gone back to the old days. We should be blowing these MAC teams out.

We probably have the best roster of talent, but not the best team. That’s on Coach. I certainly believe it’s possible to win the MAC tournament, but probably equally possible to lose the first game. Hopefully Coach and his staff can inspire these players to get it done in Cleveland. A little more passion wouldn’t hurt. Go Bulls!

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2 hours ago, Chet said:

This is my first post. I’ve been following this board for a long time, but finally created an account. I’ve been going to games since Coach Weatherspoon took over the program when we hosted NC. 

I just finished listening to Coach Whitesell on the UB basketball radio show. I like Jim. He seems to be authentic and that’s certainly important quality in life. However passion is just as important IMO and that seems lacking at times with Coach. I was frustrated how satisfied he sounded by just beating Miami on Saturday. Coach Oats set a new standard for our program last year and we seem to have gone back to the old days. We should be blowing these MAC teams out.

We probably have the best roster of talent, but not the best team. That’s on Coach. I certainly believe it’s possible to win the MAC tournament, but probably equally possible to lose the first game. Hopefully Coach and his staff can inspire these players to get it done in Cleveland. A little more passion wouldn’t hurt. Go Bulls!

I don’t think the Bulls have the best talent this year. They do not shoot well from the field. Their foul shooting, albeit recently improved, is below par. Their defense is spotty.  Buffalo certainly does not have the best team based on where it is in  the Conference standings. You say that Whitesell sounded satisfied by just beating Miami on Saturday. You are assuming that Buffalo has a right to automatic wins based on the history of the past few years. This Conference is very evenly balanced in talent. The preponderance of close games is testimony to that. Is Whitesell a good or bad coach? Let’s wait awhile to make that judgement. We all want the Bulls to be blowing out the other teams. Passion won’t get it done. Ability, preparation, and focus may. 

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46 minutes ago, squire17 said:

I don’t think the Bulls have the best talent this year. They do not shoot well from the field. Their foul shooting, albeit recently improved, is below par. Their defense is spotty.  Buffalo certainly does not have the best team based on where it is in  the Conference standings. You say that Whitesell sounded satisfied by just beating Miami on Saturday. You are assuming that Buffalo has a right to automatic wins based on the history of the past few years. This Conference is very evenly balanced in talent. The preponderance of close games is testimony to that. Is Whitesell a good or bad coach? Let’s wait awhile to make that judgement. We all want the Bulls to be blowing out the other teams. Passion won’t get it done. Ability, preparation, and focus may. 

Agree with you that more time needed to decide if Whitesell can be successful.  Also I just watched the end of Arizona State 7 point loss to Washington (3-13 in PAC10) at home...so yeah a passionate coach isn't always going to get the win.

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1 hour ago, squire17 said:

I don’t think the Bulls have the best talent this year. They do not shoot well from the field. Their foul shooting, albeit recently improved, is below par. Their defense is spotty.  Buffalo certainly does not have the best team based on where it is in  the Conference standings. You say that Whitesell sounded satisfied by just beating Miami on Saturday. You are assuming that Buffalo has a right to automatic wins based on the history of the past few years. This Conference is very evenly balanced in talent. The preponderance of close games is testimony to that. Is Whitesell a good or bad coach? Let’s wait awhile to make that judgement. We all want the Bulls to be blowing out the other teams. Passion won’t get it done. Ability, preparation, and focus may. 

I think what Chet is saying (by the way, thanks for your first post Chet) is that the team has the talent (on paper, on previous performance, etc.), but this year's performance is not matching the talent.  What you say (e.g. they don't shoot well from the field, FT shooting is below part, spotty defense) is how they have actually performed and you are right:  they don't have the best team performance this season in the conference.

 

I kind of get what Chet is saying about Whitesell and beating Miami.  While I didn't hear this particular interview, I have heard him before.  He is a different guy than Oats and brings different things to the table.  Oats has great, great passion and did get guys to buy in.  That's not Whitesell's strength.  The expectation, of course, is that Whitesell's other strengths as a coach help get the team to perform to their level of talent (and beyond).   The season isn't over yet, so the jury is out on that one.  I am sure this thread will grow once the season ends and we have time to take a look at the entire season as a whole.    

The Bulls have seemed to come up big at the end of the season when they have needed to win games in the past to secure a good seed.  Let's hope it continues.

Go Bulls.

 

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