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Schools like UConn and Wazzu are also in the woods but their conference affiliations take care of that issue. So long as Bona is part of a strong, stable A-10 they will always be formidable. It's not like we are the 'SU' to the Little 3's 'Colgate' just yet, a rivalry that became dreadfully uneven but trudges along. That there were 3 classes of UB graduates who never witnessed a loss to the Griffs, along with beating NU in 2 seasons when they went on to NCAA bids, all before we enhanced our facilities, is a commendable start to pulling away in these rivalries.

Connecticut and St. Bonaventure totally different. Connecticut was smart playing in Hartford while St. Bonaventure was foolish staying in woods leaving Buffalo basically completely once Reilly Center opened in the late 1960's in my opinion. Look St. Bonaventure was a power house when they played in Buffalo, but when they left for Olean the program slipped. And it wasn't all because of the NBA Buffalo Braves or because of ESPN and power conferences because St. Bonaventure is in a power conference in my opinion the A-10. What do you think is easier? Selling a basketball player on First Niagara Center in Buffalo where major league teams play or Olean Reilly Center in the woods? Instead they settled for 5,000 fans at the Reilly Center in a small woods town like Olean which is fine. But it is what it is with no real room for improvement with Olean losing population with a loss of jobs and a community getting older in my opinion.

Most Buffalonians look at St. Bonaventure as small time now that missed the boat to stay big time in my opinion. St. Bonaventure should be like Marquette in Milwaukee's Bradley Center or whatever they call it today at First Niagara Center in Buffalo. That is how big St. Bonaventure should be and they missed the boat in my opinion. And there is a life lesson in that UB should think about. Your not going anywhere just staying in your campus community to oneself in my opinion. Someday UB needs to think bigger and yes that means basketball at First Niagara Center in the future because bottom line being a Northtowns team will only take UB so far, even with Alumni Arena redone in my opinion. First Niagara Center is much more centrally located for all of WNY to attend games, south, east, west and north. Plus giving UB basketball more room for growth.

With the way things are going downtown with more loft apartments, condos and the rebuilt waterfront. UB future isn't athletically in my opinion at the North Campus in the next 20 years if UB truely wants to be bigtime in Buffalo. Yes that means First Niagara Center games and maybe someday some football games at either Coke Cola Field downtown with actual chairback seating and much bigger and better video board played on real grass or possible new Buffalo Bills football stadium in downtown Buffalo in ten years in my opinion.

I realize now it is a money revenue thing were UB keeps all it's own money from UB Stadium and Alumni Arena but UB isn't going to grow much attendance wise in this situation in my opinion because the UB North Campus isn't centrally located for all of Buffalo and it is a problem in my opinion. Not for me because I am in the Northtowns but for the southtowns I would imagine it is just like driving to the southtowns sucks for me for Buffalo Bills games. I will be thrilled when the Buffalo Bills move downtown in the future.

There is a reason why the Buffalo Bills are leaving Ralph Wilson Stadium in my opinion in ten years when there next lease there about to sign is up for either downtown Buffalo or Niagara Falls not just to be closer to canada which is the main reason but also so they are more centrally located in my opinion. I realize in some communities woods is hot but Buffalo isn't one of them for drawing huge attendance when in Buffalo everything further then 25 minutes is like days away. So keep that in mind this is not a let's drive forever community in traffic in my opinion. Let's Go Buffalo

XIV

XIV

Very good.  At first glance I thought it was XII.  But you are correct.

XIV

Very good.  At first glance I thought it was XII.  But you are correct.

Cut, paste find and change all in word.  It makes it very easy and quick.

XIV

Very good.  At first glance I thought it was XII.  But you are correct.

Cut, paste find and change all in word.  It makes it very easy and quick.

And much less painful.

I realize now it is a money revenue thing were UB keeps all it's own money from UB Stadium and Alumni Arena but UB isn't going to grow much attendance wise in this situation in my opinion because the UB North Campus isn't centrally located for all of Buffalo and it is a problem in my opinion.

Actually, UB North is perfectly placed on a regional scale, when you consider it sits equidistant from Downtown Buffalo, the Downtown Falls, and Lockport. North Buffalo and the Northtowns, roughly from the 198/33 northward, East to Clarence, West to GI, and South of Lockport, contains 427,000 residents. That's 35% of the Erie-Niagara-Cattaraugus total pop. alone, all within a few minutes drive of Alumni. A vast majority of our students and a big chunk of local alums (like my wife and I) are here. Most of the area's highest-income areas are nearby and the majority of local growth (in-fill developments and some sprawl, sadly) is occuring around us. DT Buffalo has its merits but even its growth is not going to halt the city's population shift for years. The Eastside is still emptying and demolitions are going well, but the demand for the lower-density new builds in pockets is tepid. The Southtowns are comparitively low-density and fall away to exurbia just a few miles past RWS.

Look St. Bonaventure was a power house when they played in Buffalo, but when they left for Olean the program slipped.

As did NU and CC, but that was because conditions were most definately different decades ago. There are hundreds more D-1 schools today and the Little 3 have been lapped by others for players and league affiliation. The Aud was a bargain for the Big 4, while staging a game at FNC is not cheap.

Yet, Bona was still a formidable oppponent for us under JVB, Baron, and now under Schmidt, all because the A-10 was and remains a 'power'conference. That affiliation brings them guys like AN and Conger. They'll still draw 4-5K to see Butler and VCU in Reilly, even with losing Temple soon. You forget they don't just draw blue-haired Oleanders, their small student base show because it's the thing to do, and they have alums travel hours there, because it was the thing to do when they were students too.

UB doesn't need to focus on playing at FNC. A small group of NU posters insist they can 'take ownership' of the area if they play there, all because they look to Siena. But it's unsound logic. UB has far more alums than anyone, get better ratings, the true 'center' of the population is the Northtowns, and we don't need to give up tens of thousands for FNC games. We are the only Big 4 team who show we can host 'power con.' teams. AA would actually fit under the nBE's arena size guidelines today if we ever did gain an invite. CC and NU need a game there every so often only so the MAAC can serve as NCAA Tourny host. Bona has found it's better to play a game for alums at Blue Cross.

I realize now it is a money revenue thing were UB keeps all it's own money from UB Stadium and Alumni Arena but UB isn't going to grow much attendance wise in this situation in my opinion because the UB North Campus isn't centrally located for all of Buffalo and it is a problem in my opinion.

Actually, UB North is perfectly placed on a regional scale, when you consider it sits equidistant from Downtown Buffalo, the Downtown Falls, and Lockport. North Buffalo and the Northtowns, roughly from the 198/33 northward, East to Clarence, West to GI, and South of Lockport, contains 427,000 residents. That's 35% of the Erie-Niagara-Cattaraugus total pop. alone, all within a few minutes drive of Alumni. A vast majority of our students and a big chunk of local alums (like my wife and I) are here. Most of the area's highest-income areas are nearby and the majority of local growth (in-fill developments and some sprawl, sadly) is occuring around us. DT Buffalo has its merits but even its growth is not going to halt the city's population shift for years. The Eastside is still emptying and demolitions are going well, but the demand for the lower-density new builds in pockets is tepid. The Southtowns are comparitively low-density and fall away to exurbia just a few miles past RWS.

Look St. Bonaventure was a power house when they played in Buffalo, but when they left for Olean the program slipped.

As did NU and CC, but that was because conditions were most definately different decades ago. There are hundreds more D-1 schools today and the Little 3 have been lapped by others for players and league affiliation. The Aud was a bargain for the Big 4, while staging a game at FNC is not cheap.

Yet, Bona was still a formidable oppponent for us under JVB, Baron, and now under Schmidt, all because the A-10 was and remains a 'power'conference. That affiliation brings them guys like AN and Conger. They'll still draw 4-5K to see Butler and VCU in Reilly, even with losing Temple soon. You forget they don't just draw blue-haired Oleanders, their small student base show because it's the thing to do, and they have alums travel hours there, because it was the thing to do when they were students too.

UB doesn't need to focus on playing at FNC. A small group of NU posters insist they can 'take ownership' of the area if they play there, all because they look to Siena. But it's unsound logic. UB has far more alums than anyone, get better ratings, the true 'center' of the population is the Northtowns, and we don't need to give up tens of thousands for FNC games. We are the only Big 4 team who show we can host 'power con.' teams. AA would actually fit under the nBE's arena size guidelines today if we ever did gain an invite. CC and NU need a game there every so often only so the MAAC can serve as NCAA Tourny host. Bona has found it's better to play a game for alums at Blue Cross.

We can agree to disagree. The Buffalo Bulls basketball team is fine where they are for a mid major program. But if UB ever wants more it needs First Niagara Center because New York State in my opinion isn't giving UB an arena that is Big East capable when First Niagara Center is there for UB to use. Sometimes you need to spend some money to make money in my opinion. If UB evers wants Buffalo Bandits type crowds it needs a First Niagara Center in my opinion. That is the same mistake St. Bonaventure makes today and still makes. And we wonder why Big 4 basketball is so behind the times, none of the programs at the four schools can outdraw a indoor lacrosse team and it isn't because well the Buffalo Bandits win alot that to me is an excuse if basketball fans really believe that party line and all Big 4 schools all basically suck when it comes to being consistant winners with not much success on a national level in my opinion. That is one of the reason why attendance sucks along with no alcohol served in there buildings like the Buffalo Bills, Buffalo Sabres, Buffalo Bandits and Buffalo Bisons in my opinion.

The best way I can put it I am going to borrow from a basketball fan in Albany that posted after a Siena Albany basketball article. Why Siena draws and U. Albany doesn't draw much. It sum up my feelings on Big 4 basketball programs locally. Siena draws because it gets an adult crowd at Time Union Center where U. Albany doesn't draw so much because of alcohol can't be serve with a on campus facility. You can't serve beer and alcohol at Alumni Arena that is one reason if UB ever wants to draw more casual Buffalo sports fans it needs First Niagara Center for anything higher then mid major level basketball in my opinion. Same deal with UB football in my opinion. And this is coming from someone that doesn't drink alcohol at all but even I can see that is part of the deal with bigtime sports in my opinion for many fans.

Also I disagree with you on UB football being in a ideal location if that was the case UB would be drawing more and it doesn't draw with cheap tickets as low as $42 for a endzone season tickets and free parking. Even with a bad win lose record for UB if everything was great as you say about money and income in this area UB should be drawing over 20,000 for only 6 games and it doesn't. Like I said I live in the north UB being close is great for me personally but I disagree that just the northtowns could ever draw 29,000 for 6 games yearly per game average let alone 40,000 or more what it would take for anything higher then the MAC down the road in my opinion. There is no evidence since 1999 that what you are saying is the case. By now if money was as great for this northtown area which it is I am not disagreeing with that point about the income levels for the northtowns, what I disagree with is that because of income level UB is in an ideal situation for drawing. In my opinion UB needs all of Erie County to have any chance to make UB into something more then MAC or even high MAC in my opinion so we can agree to disagree central location in the city of Buffalo would be best. Let's Go Buffalo

X

If UB evers wants Buffalo Bandits type crowds it needs a First Niagara Center in my opinion.

Why are you trying to compare the Bandits to college BB? They draw between 15k-17K on average most seasons, and have only 8 home dates (scarcity + winning = high demand). Only 13 D-1 teams drew over 15K last season. Do you really believe any Big 4 team will draw Kansas or Wisconsin numbers simply playing at FNC? Bona and UB aren't missing out on anything not playing at FNC.

And we wonder why Big 4 basketball is so behind the times, none of the programs at the four schools can outdraw a indoor lacrosse team.

Based on your analysis, 99% of D-1 is behind the times then.  

You can't serve beer and alcohol at Alumni Arena that is one reason if UB ever wants to draw more casual Buffalo sports fans it needs First Niagara Center for anything higher then mid major level basketball in my opinion.

The VAST majority of college programs have dry sports facilites. So the point from that Siena fan shows he has not put any thought into a correlation. Siena BB is merely fortunate to be a long term, very good program in a terrible minor league sports market, where UAlbany is barely 10 years into D-1 (I used to live there so I know the market).

Even with a bad win lose record for UB if everything was great

Our attendance issues are completely related to our 1-A/FBS win-loss record. It's not like anyone in this market is immune: the Bills blackouts at the end of recent seasons, the Sabres dip to 13k in 2003 when they had a long losing streak just when the Regis/potential relocation drama hit, the Bisons today with few crowds over 7K as dissatisfaction with the Mets relationship and losing mounts. And even those mightly Bandits with all their winning seasons once saw their numbers dip when they had a rough stretch a few years ago.

There is no evidence since 1999 that what you are saying is the case.

Did we not bring 30k+ to Toronto when we did finally win something for a change?

Perhaps because my UB degrees are geography and urban planning-development, with some concentration in location analysis, I guess I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to UB North's location.

The NCAA first rounds draw just fine at HSBC(FNC) and they are dry.  
If UB football was winning 8-10 a year and beating a FBS school at  east once per year, we wouldnt have any problem with attendance on campus.  
We are so close in basketball  and last years attendance was improving
  We need consistent improvement on the court this year to maintain the trend in attendance.
All solutions for solving attendance that do not involve "just win" are a non-sequitor.  

(IMHO)

If UB evers wants Buffalo Bandits type crowds it needs a First Niagara Center in my opinion.

Why are you trying to compare the Bandits to college BB? They draw between 15k-17K on average most seasons, and have only 8 home dates (scarcity + winning = high demand). Only 13 D-1 teams drew over 15K last season. Do you really believe any Big 4 team will draw Kansas or Wisconsin numbers simply playing at FNC? Bona and UB aren't missing out on anything not playing at FNC.

And we wonder why Big 4 basketball is so behind the times, none of the programs at the four schools can outdraw a indoor lacrosse team.

Based on your analysis, 99% of D-1 is behind the times then.  

You can't serve beer and alcohol at Alumni Arena that is one reason if UB ever wants to draw more casual Buffalo sports fans it needs First Niagara Center for anything higher then mid major level basketball in my opinion.

The VAST majority of college programs have dry sports facilites. So the point from that Siena fan shows he has not put any thought into a correlation. Siena BB is merely fortunate to be a long term, very good program in a terrible minor league sports market, where UAlbany is barely 10 years into D-1 (I used to live there so I know the market).

Even with a bad win lose record for UB if everything was great

Our attendance issues are completely related to our 1-A/FBS win-loss record. It's not like anyone in this market is immune: the Bills blackouts at the end of recent seasons, the Sabres dip to 13k in 2003 when they had a long losing streak just when the Regis/potential relocation drama hit, the Bisons today with few crowds over 7K as dissatisfaction with the Mets relationship and losing mounts. And even those mightly Bandits with all their winning seasons once saw their numbers dip when they had a rough stretch a few years ago.

There is no evidence since 1999 that what you are saying is the case.

Did we not bring 30k+ to Toronto when we did finally win something for a change?

Perhaps because my UB degrees are geography and urban planning-development, with some concentration in location analysis, I guess I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to UB North's location.

1. I compare the Buffalo Bandits attendance because it speaks volumes of my point that you seem to ignore that UB campus isn't going to really get huge crowds because it isn't an adult thing to do for many people because the lack of alcohol inside UB Stadium in my opinion. I know this because when I was at Canisius games at the AUD drew very well where alcohol was served and games at KAC drew flies because alcohol wasn't served in my opinion. The difference was great atleast 5 to 1 or 6 to 1 in my opinion.

2. The Toronto game which I was at proves my point Rogers Center alcohol was served hence an adult Buffalo crowd. Look at that games attendance, most you never saw at UB Stadium much in my opinion because it was more a party event like the Buffalo Bills, Buffalo Sabres, Buffalo Bandits with the Buffalo Bulls at the International Bowl UB went too in my opinion. UB Stadlum lacks that and until I see UB changing there UB Stadium policy with alcohol nothing will change in my opinion even if UB wins the MAC yearly.

3. Because of all these things I think UB should stay in the MAC forever because inless UB is willing to change there alcohol policy even if the Buffalo Bills where to move out of Buffalo like some UB fans think all of sudden Buffalonians are going to go to UB games I don't agree with that at all. Because UB is lacking alot as a athletic program for basketball and football and it is more then just Buffalo Bills competition and losing. If UB changed some of these things I think UB with the low ticket prices would draw alot more then they do in my opinion with the Buffalo Bills still in Buffalo.

To sum it up I think the UB is wrong on this and I am not a polyanna UB does no wrong Buffalo Bulls fan. We can stick our heads in the sand or we can really look at things and realize UB is making alot of mistakes that just winning isn't going to competely solve in my opinion when it comes to attendance in basketball and football at UB. Because UB won before a MAC football championship and attendance didn't increase much and I belive the lack of an adult game is a party win or lose inside UB Stadium is a huge problem. I mention the Buffalo Bandits that some of you seem defensive about because the reality is the Buffalo Bandits haven't won every year but they draw because it is an adult game is a party win or lose at First Niagara Center. Alot of the Buffalo Bandits attendance is the young Buffalo fan that never attended UB, that you would think UB wants that are 25 to 45 years old that you don't see very much attending UB games in my opinion that has buying power that spends on the Buffalo Bills, Buffalo Sabres and Buffalo Bandits that is my point.

No one said you don't know what your talking about Hillbilly try not to take the post so personally these are just ideas from Buffalo Super Fan that knows this area well having lived here my whole life. But UB location is a problem in my opinion if they want to draw all of WNY like the southern tier, Erie and a larger crowd from canada which UB would need in my opinion for anything higher then the MAC conference as example. Downtown would be more ideal it is just my opinion plus getting games off campus Buffalonians can drink and enjoy a more adult type game event. You change the location and the culture and UB in my opinion could draw alot more then UB fans could ever dream of. We tried it UB's way and it is basically just flat or existing on campus basketball and football. If Buffalo Bulls fans want more and better change things long term is neccessary in my opinion. Until that nothing changes in my opinion but the year. And again for everyone nothing person we all have ideas to share.

But I do challenge UB fans that just say UB is great athletics wise now let's just keep doing what were doing and all of a sudden UB is Pittsburgh Panthers or whatever higher conference school in the future because I just don't see it with the way UB does things from a athletics presentation stand point. Which is fine if UB fans want MAC forever which again is fine with me as a Buffalo Bulls fan whatever UB chooses to do I will support UB athletics but the reality is there isn't enough of me where it doesn't matter in Buffalo in my opinion for anything more then the MAC without major presentation changes for UB basketball and football. But my post are more for the UB fans that want more I think UB would really have to make major changes to there overall presentation of UB basketball and football. It isn't just money or winning it is alot more in my opinion that UB seems to either be missing or just doesn't want that type of culture which again is fine. But for UB fans thinking doing want were doing that suddenly Buffalo is going to have this big change of heart about UB basketball and football, I guess I am saying I just don't see that happening with the way UB presents basketball and football to Buffalo in my opinion. And again I am sorry if you Hillbilly or any UB fan that took anything in my post personal because none of my post are personal or directed at anyone personally on this message board. All my post are basically are ideas and thoughts to think about with UB when it comes to athletics nothing more then that. Let's Go Buffalo

The KAC doesn't draw bc it's a crap gym with a crap program. There are high school gyms in WNY that are better, not to mention Buff St.

Didn't read the rest of that.

The alcohol at UB Stadium issue was discussed here ad infinitum a few years back.   Given the number of students who attend it becomes a nightmare with checking IDs to make sure beer is sold to only 21 year olds.  Remember UB is a state agency that cannot be selling alcohol to people under 21.

As I said in the  past if the only thing preventing a person from going a game at UB is the lack of alcohol, the person has a drinking problem.  If you cannot watch a game without a drink seek help.  As someone pointed out early the NCAAs at HSNC/FNC are dry.  I have been to the Final Four and that is dry.  Blue Jay games were dry in the old CNE Stadium (ironic since at the time they were owned by Labatts).  The lack of alcohol in a venue is not a factor on attendance.

XVIII

The alcohol at UB Stadium issue was discussed here ad infinitum a few years back.   Given the number of students who attend it becomes a nightmare with checking IDs to make sure beer is sold to only 21 year olds.  Remember UB is a state agency that cannot be selling alcohol to people under 21.

As I said in the  past if the only thing preventing a person from going a game at UB is the lack of alcohol, the person has a drinking problem.  If you cannot watch a game without a drink seek help.  As someone pointed out early the NCAAs at HSNC/FNC are dry.  I have been to the Final Four and that is dry.  Blue Jay games were dry in the old CNE Stadium (ironic since at the time they were owned by Labatts).  The lack of alcohol in a venue is not a factor on attendance.

XVIII

BrooklynBull like I said for me it isn't a problem because I don't drink alcohol of any kind. But I am a realist when it comes to sports and drinking ask yourself if UB looked at it obviously they think along the lines that I do that it is a problem and it affects attendance at UB or they wouldn't have look at it in the first place. Comparing a NCAA Tournment game at First Niagara Center is not a good example for an attendance comparsion at UB in my opinion. Plus that is a NCAA thing and it is silly. They make NCAA events arenas take down professional sports championship banners so the NCAA has alot of goofy things I wouldn't use them as some great example in my opinion. Plus most of those fans aren't Buffalonians filling those seats for the NCAA basketball tournment plus most of those sports fans are from college only towns that are use to that alcohol ban.

Buffalo is a pro sports town and yes as unfortunate as it is to me it is a drinking town in my opinion. There is a reason Buffalo has so many bars compared to other cities our size. Life is tough in Buffalo with it's long winters, it is a blue collar town and people drink that is reality weather you and I like it or not it is reality and yes it affects attendance at UB in my opinion. And like I said alcohol not being serve is only one of many problem with the way UB presents football and basketball to Buffalo in my opinion.

To me like I said it doesn't matter but for many I would guess it does in a town like Buffalo. Toronto Blue Jays one different country and two why do you think canadiens don't like going to Buffalo Bills games at Rogers Center? There is a reason and the reason it because there is no tailgating because of canada not allowing open containers in open areas in a public places that is one of the many reason why canadiens enjoy going to Buffalo Bills games in Buffalo. Look the bottom line most can behave and control themselves in my opinion so your saying because of a few UB isn't going to allow alcohol to be served because it is afraid of a few UB students it isn't like they come in any great numbers anyway week in and week out it is a weak excuse in my opinion.

I will give this UB students are a huge part of the problem not because of alcohol but because they just don't show up in any great numbers after the first game for as long as I have been going since 1994. To me that is part of the problem UB in my opinion needs to serve alcohol to help draw more from Buffalo in the community because relying on UB students in my opinion in any great numbers is just not going to happen. If UB athletics is ever to go anywhere when it comes to attendance it needs to come from the Buffalo community in my opinion. And that is just the thing if the Buffalo community ever did support UB sports in any great numbers then UB student would be interested in my opinion and complain they couldn't tickets to get in so it is all part of a cycle. That is why I support UB football moving in with the Buffalo Bills downtown in ten years if the Buffalo Bills potentially build a new downtown stadium then students from campus ID won't be a responsibility or liability whatever for UB. It only stengthens my point that UB should think about moving football downtown if the Buffalo Bills do go there in ten years after this lastest lease is over they sign. Because UB Stadium in my opinion was never really a football stadium and the cost would be just way to much to make it great for football venue more then what it is now which is just ok plus the whole student don't really go, plus the whole alcohol and students thing. UB Stadium can still be used for practices and stuff like that plus in 10 years UB stadium will be starting to be dated in my opinion. I think what I am saying has alot of validity down the road if things don't change with attendance at UB football games in the next ten years at UB Stadium in my opinion.

It is just the way it is in my opinion. We have seen this for years with a school like UB of what 27,000 plus they can't get a 1/4 of the students to attend UB football and basketball games that is just I don't know what to really say but sad. To me that is too bad with the alcohol student thing because I think attendance would go up if fans could drink and UB would have another revenue stream to make alot of money so UB can finally get a field house that we been waiting years for in my opinion.

If the Buffalo Bills didn't serve and allow alcohol in my opinion there games would be empty because Buffalo Bills fans would stay home watch on the game on tv and drink. It is just reality alcohol is part of sports. Look at the 11 part series of Ken Burns baseball in america on netflix that was on PBS years ago. I started rewatching the parts that I missed the first time anyway. Fans were drinking even in the late 1800's watching baseball and gambling too at the games. It is all part of the deal and in my opinion is never changing. Let's Go Buffalo

But I am a realist when it comes to sports and drinking ask yourself if UB looked at it obviously they think along the lines that I do that it is a problem and it affects attendance at UB or they wouldn't have look at it in the first place.

I did not say UB looked into it.  I said it was discussed here.

XIII again.