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On 10/25/2021 at 10:10 AM, dutchcountry7 said:

Does anyone know the order of the games?

I think the three games are:

Daemen vs Franklin Pierce

UB vs Canisius

Niagara vs Albany

 

Our Bulls are suppose to play around 5.  Is that the last game of the night?

Not to be a debbie downer but what a pathetic slate of games. How is that supposed to grow these programs and sell tickets to casual Buffalo sports fans?

I understand that St. Bonaventure was probably reluctant but they are a MUST for these type of events. Have them schedule a bigger name opponent or play Niagara/Canisius. They are a Top 25 team this year with a diehard fanbase. You want 10,000 fans, have them and Buffalo play relevant games.

Worst case scenario, you can't and Buffalo plays Canisius like they will this year. That way you can actually sell tickets and build interest.

Literally no one cares about Canisius or Niagara right now and Daemen is even lower on the radar though I'm happy for their program to be a part of this. Downtown games should be a big event. Not just something you do for the sake of doing it. There won't be more than 3,500 people there.

Edited by Big 4 Hoops Blogger
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12 hours ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

Not to be a debbie downer but what a pathetic slate of games. How is that supposed to grow these programs and sell tickets to casual Buffalo sports fans?

I understand that St. Bonaventure was probably reluctant but they are a MUST for these type of events. Have them schedule a bigger name opponent or play Niagara/Canisius. They are a Top 25 team this year with a diehard fanbase. You want 10,000 fans, have them and Buffalo play relevant games.

Worst case scenario, you can't and Buffalo plays Canisius like they will this year. That way you can actually sell tickets and build interest.

Literally no one cares about Canisius or Niagara right now and Daemen is even lower on the radar though I'm happy for their program to be a part of this. Downtown games should be a big event. Not just something you do for the sake of doing it. There won't be more than 3,500 people there.

I went to the last Big 4 event downtown: UB v Canisius and Bona v Niagara. And attendance stunk for those games too. About 4K.

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12 hours ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

Not to be a debbie downer but what a pathetic slate of games. How is that supposed to grow these programs and sell tickets to casual Buffalo sports fans?

I understand that St. Bonaventure was probably reluctant but they are a MUST for these type of events. Have them schedule a bigger name opponent or play Niagara/Canisius. They are a Top 25 team this year with a diehard fanbase. You want 10,000 fans, have them and Buffalo play relevant games.

Worst case scenario, you can't and Buffalo plays Canisius like they will this year. That way you can actually sell tickets and build interest.

Literally no one cares about Canisius or Niagara right now and Daemen is even lower on the radar though I'm happy for their program to be a part of this. Downtown games should be a big event. Not just something you do for the sake of doing it. There won't be more than 3,500 people there.

Key Bank Arena was required to host a regular season basketball event this year.  
 

They are a host site for the 2022 NCAA tournament and as part of the requirements to host is a dry run event during the season.  
 

The MAAC is the host of the NCAA tournament.  The MAAC and KeyBank have to work out the terms for the hosting revenue and the dry run.  
 

It sounds like one side or the other had no interest in investing into a quality dry run event with top teams.  Sounds like they went as low budget as they could go to meet the requirement.  
 

Would be great to bring in some notable teams from outside the area. 

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1 hour ago, promotherobot said:

I went to the last Big 4 event downtown: UB v Canisius and Bona v Niagara. And attendance stunk for those games too. About 4K.

I think each school got 2,500 tickets to that one.   They didn’t plan to open the upper level.  
 

Amazing how few fans will go downtown to games.  I really don’t understand why the schools weren’t able to bus students in for the games and have a nice crowd. 
 

It would seem like the student sections are a large part of the attendance at any home game.  You have to think it would be better to have people there than to have that huge venue be empty.  Either the venue didn’t want people there that weren’t paying (so they wouldn’t have to clean up a few extra seats where the students would sit) or the schools put no effort into getting students there and didn’t want to invest in some busses. 
 

Either way, it seems like we have been doing the MAAC and Key Bank some favors.

Though I suppose it’s better to have our road games against Canisius at Key Bank rather than going to their gym.  We have an advantage at Key Bank for sure. 

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3 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Key Bank Arena was required to host a regular season basketball event this year.  
 

They are a host site for the 2022 NCAA tournament and as part of the requirements to host is a dry run event during the season.  
 

The MAAC is the host of the NCAA tournament.  The MAAC and KeyBank have to work out the terms for the hosting revenue and the dry run.  
 

It sounds like one side or the other had no interest in investing into a quality dry run event with top teams.  Sounds like they went as low budget as they could go to meet the requirement.  
 

Would be great to bring in some notable teams from outside the area. 

Appreciate that info. Never knew that but it makes a ton of sense.

So it essentially seems like they’re running this event out of obligation and not to reward Buffalo basketball fans.

That’s disappointing because I do think this is something that could draw a good crowd if they put it together right but it appears our local schools don’t have any interest or the budgets to do so.

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Its been talked about before but assuming ub continues to trend upward and the bonnies as well. Having that game at key bank could be an awesome atmosphere and help grow the game of basketball in WNY

Thinking back to the 2019 game in alumni which I believe was sold out; so the game can move tickets 

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51 minutes ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

Appreciate that info. Never knew that but it makes a ton of sense.

So it essentially seems like they’re running this event out of obligation and not to reward Buffalo basketball fans.

That’s disappointing because I do think this is something that could draw a good crowd if they put it together right but it appears our local schools don’t have any interest or the budgets to do so.

It's not clear to me that it is the local schools holding back.

I think it is actually Pegula Sports and Entertainment.  Getting people interested in Big Four basketball doesn't help the Sabres.  It just gives them more competition for winter sports fans.  More people watching the Buffalo Bulls all winter isn't good for them. 

I think they are really interested in hosting the NCAA tournament so they can bring people to their arena and to Canalside to stay in their hotels and eat at their restaurants.  But they are most interested in bringing in the fans from Ohio State, Murray State, Tennessee, St. Mary's or whoever is assigned to play at the Buffalo site to make money off and not too interested in cultivating a local college basketball fan base.

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1 hour ago, Tee4three said:

Its been talked about before but assuming ub continues to trend upward and the bonnies as well. Having that game at key bank could be an awesome atmosphere and help grow the game of basketball in WNY

Thinking back to the 2019 game in alumni which I believe was sold out; so the game can move tickets 

I recall Alnutt saying that the majority of tickets UB sells are to people who live around Amherst.  They didn't see playing in the city as a big benefit.  And they don't like the idea of giving up home court advantage.

We just started a four game home/home with St Bona.  I don't think there is any interest for us to go down to them and then give them a neutral court site where they have been able to sell more tickets to games in the past.  Playing in front of half a house of St Bona fans at Key Brank doesn't really help us, does it?

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27 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

I recall Alnutt saying that the majority of tickets UB sells are to people who live around Amherst.  They didn't see playing in the city as a big benefit.  And they don't like the idea of giving up home court advantage.

We just started a four game home/home with St Bona.  I don't think there is any interest for us to go down to them and then give them a neutral court site where they have been able to sell more tickets to games in the past.  Playing in front of half a house of St Bona fans at Key Brank doesn't really help us, does it?

I was going for more that all the games between them would get played in key bank. So neutral site each year

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11 minutes ago, Tee4three said:

I was going for more that all the games between them would get played in key bank. So neutral site each year

If the schools committed to making it a neutral site rivalry game and bussed students in it would be awesome.  

Have 7,500 fans in attendance for the neutral site games where both sides have a lot of fans at the game.

That sounds good.  No need to turn fans away from either school.  

But each school undoubtedly makes more money at a home game every other year than they would from this.

I can’t see Key Bank giving financial incentives that would make it better for the two schools. 

Seems like the winner there would be KeyBank who gets another event to come to their facility to make money for them.  

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2 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

If the schools committed to making it a neutral site rivalry game and bussed students in it would be awesome.  

Have 7,500 fans in attendance for the neutral site games where both sides have a lot of fans at the game.

That sounds good.  No need to turn fans away from either school.  

But each school undoubtedly makes more money at a home game every other year than they would from this.

I can’t see Key Bank giving financial incentives that would make it better for the two schools. 

Seems like the winner there would be KeyBank who gets another event to come to their facility to make money for them.  

The idea would be the loss of revenue would be made up for in brand/promotion/marketing/recruiting for both schools

It could become part of the "ub or Bonnie college experience" not just for the student athlete but the student body

Not to merge or change the subject but if successful its also something ub could show a larger conference

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1 hour ago, Tee4three said:

The idea would be the loss of revenue would be made up for in brand/promotion/marketing/recruiting for both schools

It could become part of the "ub or Bonnie college experience" not just for the student athlete but the student body

Not to merge or change the subject but if successful its also something ub could show a larger conference

Revenue is number one on both schools’ list of priorities. 
 

They are by far the best program we play at home basically every year we get them at Alumni.  The game can already be a big rivalry without the need to give up revenue to a pro sports team. 

It would be nice if it were a big event but without a sponsor who wants to bankroll it, I don’t see how it would happen. 

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5 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

It's not clear to me that it is the local schools holding back.

I think it is actually Pegula Sports and Entertainment.  Getting people interested in Big Four basketball doesn't help the Sabres.  It just gives them more competition for winter sports fans.  More people watching the Buffalo Bulls all winter isn't good for them. 

I think they are really interested in hosting the NCAA tournament so they can bring people to their arena and to Canalside to stay in their hotels and eat at their restaurants.  But they are most interested in bringing in the fans from Ohio State, Murray State, Tennessee, St. Mary's or whoever is assigned to play at the Buffalo site to make money off and not too interested in cultivating a local college basketball fan base.

Apples and bananas. Hockey fans watch hockey. Basketball fans watch basketball. There's little overlap.

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I personally have always loved the downtown basketball games but they don't have the pull they did for the previous generations. I think the first one I personally attended was back in 2004 when we played Indiana St (and pounded them) before Bona played Canisius. 

I also think UB vs Bona this year would have been fun simply as a neutral site game between 2 really good local teams. 

Id agree the lineup is sad. I know the "Big 4" thing isnt going to happen as we want it but something better than NU/Albany. At least the one in 2004 you had Bona there. I feel like if they could have even gotten the Bonnies playing a cake opponent somehow it would have been a better "card"

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50 minutes ago, promotherobot said:

Apples and bananas. Hockey fans watch hockey. Basketball fans watch basketball. There's little overlap.

What you call “little overlap” professional sports franchises would call casual fans and would consider a significant risk to long term profits.  
 

Let’s think about this another way.  
 

If UB did become a Gonzaga, do you think the Sabres would not be impacted?  
 

Do you think Sabres viewership and attendance wouldn’t be impacted on nights that UB (Gonzaga) was playing?


Do you think the people who casually watch the Sabres now on TV and occasionally go to a game every few years would increase their sports viewership and sports spending?  Do you think they will watch both games when the two sports are on at the same time?  Or would they watch the same amount of sports and spend the same amount of money to attend sports and just divide it up differently with some people choosing to no longer watch hockey because basketball was on?

Do you think the Buffalo area corporate sponsors would increase their sports sponsorship budgets to support two major programs?  Or do you think they would redirect sponsorship dollars from the Sabres to the Bulls?

I can assure you, there would be a major impact.  
 

The Sabres, as all pro sports, are first and foremost in the entertainment business.  They aren’t a hockey business.  They are an entertainment business.  Their entertainment is sports.  Their sport of choice is Ice Hockey.  
 

It’s the reason pro sports owners own so many different teams in various sports.  They recognize this fact.  
 

They don’t was to risk even a 1% of that.  They don’t want to do anything to help their competition.  And they know that college basket is their competition.  

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22 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

I think each school got 2,500 tickets to that one.   They didn’t plan to open the upper level.  
 

Amazing how few fans will go downtown to games.  I really don’t understand why the schools weren’t able to bus students in for the games and have a nice crowd. 
 

It would seem like the student sections are a large part of the attendance at any home game.  You have to think it would be better to have people there than to have that huge venue be empty.  Either the venue didn’t want people there that weren’t paying (so they wouldn’t have to clean up a few extra seats where the students would sit) or the schools put no effort into getting students there and didn’t want to invest in some busses. 
 

Either way, it seems like we have been doing the MAAC and Key Bank some favors.

Though I suppose it’s better to have our road games against Canisius at Key Bank rather than going to their gym.  We have an advantage at Key Bank for sure. 

UB and Canisius should not need to bus students downtown. They both have the subway from their campus downtown. They could partner with the NFTA and deck one subway car in UB colors and the other in Canisius colors and do a PR stunt showing the trains heading to the arena.

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1 hour ago, yussi1870 said:

UB and Canisius should not need to bus students downtown. They both have the subway from their campus downtown. They could partner with the NFTA and deck one subway car in UB colors and the other in Canisius colors and do a PR stunt showing the trains heading to the arena.

Decided to take a look to see how efficient it would be.

Visited the NFTA Metro website and this is what they gave for their trip planner... NFTA - Page Not Found

So I did some googling and found this which is linked from the NFTA website:  From University At Buffalo to Keybank Center (Arena Keybank) by Bus or Light Rail (moovitapp.com)

If I want to leave at 10:40 AM from the Amherst Campus, I will get to the arena at 12:10 PM at the earliest. So, a 90 minute trip, one way.

Or if going by car/bus it is a 23 minute trip.

I don't think Students will travel by transit and waste three hours of their day commuting.   There is a reason other schools have invested in running their own shuttles.  They know that you can't depend on students taking public transit.  

Temple Students can take public transit from their dorms to games but the school runs shuttles for them: Temple Football Game Day Shuttles | Calendar of Events

Pitt has public transit to take students to football games.  Yet they still offer shuttle busses directly for students: Heinz Field Shuttle | Parking, Transportation & Services | University of Pittsburgh

You can not rely on public transit if you actually want to get students to the game.  That's part of the problem.  There hasn't been enough care and consideration given to making sure students get involved.  It must be as frictionless as possible.  There needs to be efforts to make sure students get there.  It isn't enough to make them aware that the event is happening.  It needs to be done in a way that gets students there even if they don't really care about the sporting event.  It needs to be a social event where they are simply moving with the crowd of other students and everything is effortless.

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1 hour ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Decided to take a look to see how efficient it would be.

Visited the NFTA Metro website and this is what they gave for their trip planner... NFTA - Page Not Found

So I did some googling and found this which is linked from the NFTA website:  From University At Buffalo to Keybank Center (Arena Keybank) by Bus or Light Rail (moovitapp.com)

If I want to leave at 10:40 AM from the Amherst Campus, I will get to the arena at 12:10 PM at the earliest. So, a 90 minute trip, one way.

Or if going by car/bus it is a 23 minute trip.

I don't think Students will travel by transit and waste three hours of their day commuting.   There is a reason other schools have invested in running their own shuttles.  They know that you can't depend on students taking public transit.  

Temple Students can take public transit from their dorms to games but the school runs shuttles for them: Temple Football Game Day Shuttles | Calendar of Events

Pitt has public transit to take students to football games.  Yet they still offer shuttle busses directly for students: Heinz Field Shuttle | Parking, Transportation & Services | University of Pittsburgh

You can not rely on public transit if you actually want to get students to the game.  That's part of the problem.  There hasn't been enough care and consideration given to making sure students get involved.  It must be as frictionless as possible.  There needs to be efforts to make sure students get there.  It isn't enough to make them aware that the event is happening.  It needs to be done in a way that gets students there even if they don't really care about the sporting event.  It needs to be a social event where they are simply moving with the crowd of other students and everything is effortless.

When I was a student in the early 2000's I had an internship downtown. I would drive from the North Campus to the South Campus and then take the subway to to the internship which was right near the baseball stadium. I want to say it was more like 45 minutes or so \each way.

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1 hour ago, dutchcountry7 said:

If I want to leave at 10:40 AM from the Amherst Campus, I will get to the arena at 12:10 PM at the earliest. So, a 90 minute trip, one way.

Or if going by car/bus it is a 23 minute trip.

I don't think Students will travel by transit and waste three hours of their day commuting.   There is a reason other schools have invested in running their own shuttles.  They know that you can't depend on students taking public transit.

Yeah for a while they ran shuttles from the dorms to the games.  I think it's a good idea, but it shows how easy you have to make it for a large percentage of students to get to a game.  If people weren't taking the Stampede to the union and walking to Alumni from there, I'm not banking on them taking the Stampede, walking to the subway, riding the subway, then walking into Key Bank.

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  • 2 weeks later...

SBU was going to play Niagara in this event, but got a chance to paly in the Hall of Fame shootout in Charlotte against Virginia Tech.  To add to the attendance woes the Bills may potentially have a home game against the Panthers that day,  The NFL has yet to set the date of that game.  It could be Sunday, but seems pretty likely to be on Saturday.  Good luck going up against that.  

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5 hours ago, Buffalobonnie said:

SBU was going to play Niagara in this event, but got a chance to paly in the Hall of Fame shootout in Charlotte against Virginia Tech.  To add to the attendance woes the Bills may potentially have a home game against the Panthers that day,  The NFL has yet to set the date of that game.  It could be Sunday, but seems pretty likely to be on Saturday.  Good luck going up against that.  

I wonder if they could move the game to Sunday is need be? At least play later in the evening so you aren't up against the Bills.

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