The Gonzaga Path

[bull_trojan]

I wanted to try to map out the Gonzaga path to see if we could learn anything.

Over a 5 seasons period starting with the team's first or second all-time NCAA tourney appearance (since 1995):

• over 105 wins
• over 65% win pct
• At least 2 NCAA tourney appearances
• At least 1 NCAA Tourney win
• Mid-Major program

9 Teams fit the bill.

Gonzaga (1994-95 thru 1998-99)
Valparaiso (1995-96 thru 1999-00)
Butler (1996-97 thru 2000-01)
College of Charleston (1996-97 thru 2000-01)
Kent State (1998-99 thru 2002-03)
Harvard (2011-12 thru 2015-16)
Florida Gulf Coast (2012-13 thru 2016-17)
Stephen F. Austin (2013-14 thru 2017-18)
Buffalo (2014-15 thru 2018-19)

[bull_trojan]

Gonzaga (1994-95 thru 1998-1999)

During Run:

• Record: 109-47 (69.87%)
• NCAA Appearances: 2
• NCAA record: 3-2
• Coaches:
  • Dan Fitzgerald, Retired after 1996-97
  • Dan Monson, Top Assistant under Fitzgerald, went to Minnesota after 1998-99
• Attendance
  • Average: 3,428
  • Increase over period: 5.27%

Five years after the Run:

• Record: 133-32 (80.61%)
• NCAA Appearances: 5
• NCAA record: 6-5
• Coaches:
  • Mark Few, Top Assistant under Monson
• Attendance
  • Average: 4,240
  • Increase over previous 5 year period: 23.69%

Overall

• Facility upgrade 
  • Arena: 2004 (10 years after start of run)
  • Practice Facility: 2018 (24 years after start of run)
• Conference Change
  • None

[bull_trojan]

Buffalo (2014-15 thru 2018-19)

During Run:

• Record: 115-52 (68.86%)
• NCAA Appearances: 3 
• NCAA record: 1-3
• Coaches:
  • Bobby Hurley, went to ASU after 2014-15
  • Nate Oats, Top Assistant under Hurley
• Attendance
  • Average: 3,898
  • Increase over period: 45.35%

Overall

• Facility upgrade 
  • Arena: N/A
  • Practice Facility: N/A
• Conference Change
  • None

[UBFan99]

Stop wasting time and money on a football program than can’t even win the MAC and invest everything you got in hoops. The market is better for that too. Strive to be Gonzaga, Villlanova. Etc. 

[MillenniumBull]

Yup. I won’t let my kids play football.  Why watch it.  Why be a fan of a sport where kids are killing them selves.  Even rugby is better.

[MillenniumBull]

Pay the man and see where this goes.

[Jeseph]

We just built a field house, the football team isn’t going anywhere.

[MillenniumBull]

The field house isn’t going anywhere.  Sweet.

[McBulls]

List above shows the Gonzaga path is easier said than done. Also, add one: SIU 01-02 through 06-07.

155-46 (77.1%)

NCAA Appearances: 6

NCAA Record: 5-6

Coaches: Bruce Weber (2 years), Matt Painter (1 year), Chris Lowery (3 years).

Over the ensuing 12 years they went 183-200 (47.8%). Lowery was fired after 11-12 and Barry Hinson resigned after this season. Save for Butler, nobody from that list has made the leap from Mid-Major to the big leagues. How do we ensure we do so? What makes us the special case?

 

[BrooklynBull]

6 hours ago, bull_trojan said:

Conference Change

• None 

 

There was no conference change because they do not play football.  All of the conference moves of late have been football related.

Edited March 10, 2019 by BrooklynBull

[DooleyBull06]

UB is a basketball school. But football will always lead the way. Bc football is where the money is. So if it doesn’t make sense for football isn’t doesn’t make sense for the school. Which is why we have to table talks about conference realignment. And open talks about the things that could keep Oats here. Things like raises for him and the staff. New practice facility.  Things that provide stability and growth of a program. We make these upgrades we can make it enticing to keep Nate and bring in recruits and keep winning. All the while hopefully the football team continues their rise and wins the conference and bowl games and bring in dollars. Only when the stars align for football will things come to a head. But until then we have to do everything to keep the recent success of our football and basketball programs going.

That all said we are closer to a championship in basketball than we are in football. But we can ever scrap or turn our backs on football. They have to work in concert. See what UCF is doing.

[rma]

11 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said:

There was no conference change because they do not play football.  All of the conference moves of late have been football related.

Wichita State's undefeated-in-33-years football team agrees.

4 hours ago, UBFan99 said:

Stop wasting time and money on a football program than can’t even win the MAC and invest everything you got in hoops. The market is better for that too. Strive to be Gonzaga, Villlanova. Etc. 

Football makes way more money. 

[squire17]

2 hours ago, rma said:

Wichita State's undefeated-in-33-years football team agrees.

Football makes way more money. 

Approximately how much money does Buffalo’s football team net each year. I thought that it lost money - not taking into account intangibles.

[rma]

1 minute ago, squire17 said:

Approximately how much money does Buffalo’s football team net each year. I thought that it lost money - not taking into account intangibles.

All sports lose money IIRC.  But football takes in a lot more than the others.  Dropping football would case huge title IX problems too.

[bull_trojan]

7 hours ago, UBFan99 said:

Stop wasting time and money on a football program than can’t even win the MAC and invest everything you got in hoops. The market is better for that too. Strive to be Gonzaga, Villlanova. Etc. 

Villanova has football.

3 hours ago, McBulls said:

Also, add one: SIU 01-02 through 06-07.

So I focused on "new money" teams who's runs were from their first or second NCAA tourney appearance. By 01-02, SIU had already gone to the Dance 4 times. But your over-arching point is valid, it's hard and what can we do to prevent this from losing steam.

2 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:

There was no conference change because they do not play football.  All of the conference moves of late have been football related.

Gonzaga flirted with Mountain West as a Basketball only, that's really the only outlet they have without going somewhere with crazy travel. The MW is all in on it, but Gonzaga is not. They have a pretty good thing going being the huge fish in a small pond, and by publicly flirting with the MW they got the WCC to give them more $ and security (i.e. the double bye)

[bull_trojan]

4 minutes ago, rma said:

All sports lose money IIRC.  But football takes in a lot more than the others.  Dropping football would case huge title IX problems too.

Football attendance 2018: 110,280. 
Basketball attendance 2018-19: 74,054

[rma]

And how much did we get paid to beat up on Rutgers?

[squire17]

3 hours ago, McBulls said:

List above shows the Gonzaga path is easier said than done. Also, add one: SIU 01-02 through 06-07.

155-46 (77.1%)

NCAA Appearances: 6

NCAA Record: 5-6

Coaches: Bruce Weber (2 years), Matt Painter (1 year), Chris Lowery (3 years).

Over the ensuing 12 years they went 183-200 (47.8%). Lowery was fired after 11-12 and Barry Hinson resigned after this season. Save for Butler, nobody from that list has made the leap from Mid-Major to the big leagues. How do we ensure we do so? What makes us the special case?

 

Shouldn’t Wichita St be in that group. They made the jump to the American and are having an off year, but they’ve been pretty consistent over the past 7 or so years.

[DooleyBull06]

20 minutes ago, bull_trojan said:

Football attendance 2018: 110,280. 
Basketball attendance 2018-19: 74,054

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuxlyecnoHe/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

 

According to UB Athletics total attendance was 100,806. I believe that’s for both men’s and women’s.

Edited March 10, 2019 by DooleyBull06

[121Merrimac]

1 hour ago, bull_trojan said:

... Basketball attendance 2018-19: 74,054

+1

(sadly, your numbers are more accurate than the school’s own site)

[John]

6 hours ago, rma said:

Wichita State's undefeated-in-33-years football team agrees.

Football makes way more money. 

I am not trying to be uninformed but does anyone have factual numbers as to what the football program brings in as far as dollars for the school?? With the number of scholarships and players along with coaches and support staff how much are they really making?? UB can not get much revenue from ticket sales and how much do they really get when sharing money with the MAC?? Maybe at some point someone has had factual numbers but I am sure a lot of the average supporters would like some facts to support arguments both ways. Again I am in no way saying we should drop football but does it make monetary sense for UB? Go Bulls!!!!!

[rma]

3 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuxlyecnoHe/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

 

According to UB Athletics total attendance was 100,806. I believe that’s for both men’s and women’s.

25k is amazing for WBB.  It was not too long ago when you could hear a pin drop during games.  The gameday ops people would go to the band to fill in for promotions (and we would get to pick which promotion we wanted).  We can still grow "The Village" more though!

[rma]

Just now, John said:

I am not trying to be uninformed but does anyone have factual numbers as to what the football program brings in as far as dollars for the school?? With the number of scholarships and players along with coaches and support staff how much are they really making?? UB can not get much revenue from ticket sales and how much do they really get when sharing money with the MAC?? Maybe at some point someone has had factual numbers but I am sure a lot of the average supporters would like some facts to support arguments both ways. Again I am in no way saying we should drop football but does it make monetary sense for UB? Go Bulls!!!!!

I could reiterate the numbers that Bull Run has posted numerous times.  However think of it like this.  In the past 10 years, 12 teams have joined FBS football.  One has moved down to FCS (which kinda made sense given their travel situation).  There must be some value to FBS football especially in a conference as geographically small as ours.  I'm not saying that it makes money, but rather there is marketing/brand value in a D1 FBS football program.

[UBFan99]

5 hours ago, bull_trojan said:

Villanova has football.

I’m aware. FCS football would be fine like them I guess.  

 

[MillenniumBull]

We are not dropping football. Never.  We just need to stop overpaying for it.  UB at the very best is a stepping stone for a coaches next job.  So admit it to ourselves, and only pay for cheap hungry young coaching talent, wave to them on their way out, and get another.  I wouldn’t even mind if other MAC schools could poach our football coaches.  The dream football season, we go undefeated, ranked all year, and we may still end up in a meaningless bowl game on that stupid blue field in Boise.  Oh, and noone gets hurts.  Invest in basketball.