Buffalo vs St. Bonaventure 12/4 - 4pm

[Ubbulls84]

1 hour ago, MuchMany said:

PLENTY to not like about that game and in the end it's a heart-shattering loss .But wow the 27th ranked team in America is crying tears of joy and their fans storming the court after beating our team full of disappointments and dead coaches walking.

We made a 13-2 run to tie it in what will be our most hostile road environment of the year. That's invaluable experience for critical MAC Tournament games to come and the guts they showed make me care about these kids even more.

How many would have already been driving down Maple Rd during that comeback based on this thread? Really unbecoming of our fanbase.

Jeenathan showed tremendous heart and skill, which are his absolute hallmarks. Rondo did as well. They need to have a chat with their fellow senior ASAP if they want the season to mean anything - embarrassing no show from Mballa today.  Whitesell and his staff don't bother installing offense in August like most programs, so I'm not sure we can do it now. No confidence we would execute a play like they did at the end.

I appreciate the positivity, but please don’t sugar coat it this is a bad loss. For the level we expected the team to come into this season and Bonnie’s missing their best, player, you have to win this game period. This is a senior laden team, don’t need to hear about how it was a great experience, they lost period.  Need to play better first half and not put themselves in this position every game. 

[UBlearns]

5 minutes ago, Ubbulls84 said:

Lol, he got no shot at the the NBA. Hes been killing whatever stock he has. Probably will be playing overseas or g league. 

I love the guy and he's a fantastic player for UB.  I mean this in the best way possible - he should really consider trying his hand at the NFL after his time at UB is done.  I'm convinced he could carve out a very, very lucrative NFL career in the vein of an Antonio Gates, Mo Alie-Cox, Chris Manhertz, basketball-PF-turned-NFL-TE scheme.  He could absolutely make a career playing basketball, of course, but I would love to see him in the NFL.  He could be a phenomenal TE.

[Jeseph]

2 minutes ago, Ubbulls84 said:

I appreciate the positivity, but please don’t sugar coat it this is a bad loss. For the level we expected the team to come into this season and Bonnie’s missing their best, player, you have to win this game period. This is a senior laden team, don’t need to hear about how it was a great experience, they lost period.  Need to play better first half and not put themselves in this position every game. 

There’s probably a scenario where losing tonight isn’t horrible. Being down ~10 almost the entire game, having almost no assists, getting out-rebounded by 10, and shooing abysmally while not defending a wide open 3 to lose isn’t that scenario…

[Buffalobonnie]

Just like to say that Williams is the real deal.  Not only did he almost bring you guys back all by himself, he also was very classy after the game congratulating the Bona players. That is not an easy thing to do after losing a game like that.

Good luck the rest of the year. Please stay in quadrant two.  If you ever want to give up on football I would be happy with you in the A-10.

See you next year. 

[Jeseph]

3 minutes ago, Buffalobonnie said:

Just like to say that Williams is the real deal.  Not only did he almost bring you guys back all by himself, he also was very classy after the game congratulating the Bona players. That is not an easy thing to do after losing a game like that.

Good luck the rest of the year. Please stay in quadrant two.  If you ever want to give up on football I would be happy with you in the A-10.

See you next year. 

Stay relevant!

good luck the rest of the year (this was very hard for me to say, like it was for Williams).

[enrique14150]

I listened on the radio.  It sounded like that despite shooting horribly most of the game, getting beaten on the boards, and getting a bad game from Mballa, they somehow almost found a way in the end.  Road games sometimes (often times) aren't pretty, and I think it's a good sign sometimes when a team finds a way when stuff isn't working.  Great reaction by the Bulls down the stretch; unfortunately Bona made their shot at the end.  They have a very good team - losing a close one on the road to them despite shooting badly isn't something I'd freak out about.

What is Bona's deal with facing UB?  They act like they're a big deal (they're not), and a bigger deal than UB, but at the same time they really get agitated about playing UB.  Witness rushing the court TWICE in recent memory against UB, including today when they're the higher ranked team.  I don't get it.

[MuchMany]

1 hour ago, UBlearns said:

I love the guy and he's a fantastic player for UB.  I mean this in the best way possible - he should really consider trying his hand at the NFL after his time at UB is done.  I'm convinced he could carve out a very, very lucrative NFL career in the vein of an Antonio Gates, Mo Alie-Cox, Chris Manhertz, basketball-PF-turned-NFL-TE scheme.  He could absolutely make a career playing basketball, of course, but I would love to see him in the NFL.  He could be a phenomenal TE.

All due respect to Josh, but if the physicality of mid-major college hoops appears overwhelming at times, he wouldn't make it through a single padded NFL practice. Nick Perkins on the other hand...

[UB92]

6 hours ago, mikescherrer8 said:

I don't think there was anymore of a Whitesell defender on this board than me. @Jesephcan concur to that. But those days are coming to an end. 

Wow!   You were a big defender of Whitesell.   I am surprised.

But there are others left to defend him on this board…as well as others to chastise people for complaining about the coach.   

[UBminicre]

2 hours ago, enrique14150 said:

I listened on the radio.  It sounded like that despite shooting horribly most of the game, getting beaten on the boards, and getting a bad game from Mballa, they somehow almost found a way in the end.  Road games sometimes (often times) aren't pretty, and I think it's a good sign sometimes when a team finds a way when stuff isn't working.  Great reaction by the Bulls down the stretch; unfortunately Bona made their shot at the end.  They have a very good team - losing a close one on the road to them despite shooting badly isn't something I'd freak out about.

What is Bona's deal with facing UB?  They act like they're a big deal (they're not), and a bigger deal than UB, but at the same time they really get agitated about playing UB.  Witness rushing the court TWICE in recent memory against UB, including today when they're the higher ranked team.  I don't get it.

Normally I’d agree, but sadly it seems like you can just cut and copy your first paragraph for any game we play against a team that is ranked 100 or better.

Ironically felt the same for UB football too. We had talent, but always found ourself playing terrible and digging ourselves in a hole before we decide to string some positives. Most the time too late…

[enrique14150]

UBminicre - I agree with you that they've been less effective against better opposition.  It's a test that they're going to have to face up to and raise their game.  Either they overcome that challenge, and prove themselves to be a truly good team, or they show that they're just okay.  We've seen both other the years, and we only know what we've got when they're tested.  I give some credit to our opponents - there's a reason Michigan is top 25, there's a reason Bona is 25 in one poll, and the Bulls this year are not.

The big question is going to be: how competitive will they be in the MAC?  Because this group did a great job last year overcoming that Covid break and going on a run in conference play.  That's what's going to matter again.

[UBminicre]

7 hours ago, enrique14150 said:

UBminicre - I agree with you that they've been less effective against better opposition.  It's a test that they're going to have to face up to and raise their game.  Either they overcome that challenge, and prove themselves to be a truly good team, or they show that they're just okay.  We've seen both other the years, and we only know what we've got when they're tested.  I give some credit to our opponents - there's a reason Michigan is top 25, there's a reason Bona is 25 in one poll, and the Bulls this year are not.

The big question is going to be: how competitive will they be in the MAC?  Because this group did a great job last year overcoming that Covid break and going on a run in conference play.  That's what's going to matter again.

That’s fair. I think we are mostly in agreement here. Back with oats we won some of these big games. Under whitesell and this group we have not. It’s that simple. And sadly our future looks way less talented then what we currently have. So forgive the fans for being a little worried here…

[MKBullsfan]

Hate to be pessimistic but we are staring at a big rebuild after this year. I’d be surprised if we won 10 games next year with the less experienced roster we have. Anyways let’s focus and enjoy this season but concern about the future roster is an understatement. 

[promotherobot]

I still can't get over the loss. We pressured the Bonnies, got them off their game, and managed to tie it up. Only to back off and give them all the time and space in the world to tee up the winning three. 

[mikescherrer8]

1 hour ago, promotherobot said:

I still can't get over the loss. We pressured the Bonnies, got them off their game, and managed to tie it up. Only to back off and give them all the time and space in the world to tee up the winning three. 

Gotta look ahead at this point, and hope we go on a late season win streak like last season. You never know. It’s a long ways to go. I’m over the loss. Time to get back to the MAC championship and win it this time and get back to the tournament where we belong. 

[Tee4three]

11 hours ago, promotherobot said:

I still can't get over the loss. We pressured the Bonnies, got them off their game, and managed to tie it up. Only to back off and give them all the time and space in the world to tee up the winning three. 

The defense hasn't been great this season, when they play a bit more aggressive on defense they seem to play better. 

After the sfa loss the team fixed some of the issues that caused that loss notably intensity and bench play/minutes

I'm hopeful that they come away from this loss with the idea to use the pressure defense a bit more. Think it will use the team's athleticism as an advantage also would force more bench minutes as well 

[DocCas86]

Thought I would share a listing of mediocre (as defined on ubfan.com -> rank between 76 and 100) MAC teams since 2015.

[clodney]

7 minutes ago, DocCas86 said:

Thought I would share a listing of mediocre (as defined on ubfan.com -> rank between 76 and 100) MAC teams since 2015.

Season     Team             Rank

2022           Buffalo             88

So you're saying we're mediocre this year. Got it.

[DocCas86]

3 minutes ago, clodney said:

So you're saying we're mediocre this year. Got it.

Not me, someone else did...In my opinion these are good MAC teams capable of winning in Cleveland.  Was trying to point out how some of the criticism has been a bit overstated.

[Jeseph]

2 hours ago, DocCas86 said:

Thought I would share a listing of mediocre (as defined on ubfan.com -> rank between 76 and 100) MAC teams since 2015.

One (1) of them won in Cleveland.

[DocCas86]

32 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

One (1) of them won in Cleveland.

A fair point - however, if you consider this corresponds to 3 years 2015, 2017 and 2021, in each of the three years, at least one of the these teams was in the final, winning it once. 

I will admit my expectations for the team this year are better than where things currently stands, as I was hoping for a year similar to 2018 Oats, ranking 60-70 range and a MAC championship.  The team has a chance with games against WKU and UCI to improve upon current rankings going into conference play.  Let's see what happens in remaining games this year. 

I view this year as setting the ceiling for Whitesell.  If we end year ranked 60-70, I am ok with Whitesell - would like better but realistically, I think coaches whose ceiling at UB is say, 40 / possible at large, are rare ; if we end year 85+ - I am not so enthusiastic about Whitesell.

I tried to look back at options; considerations when we opted for Whitesell - one primary goal was keep team together - that goal was achieved.  The alternatives that I am aware of Hodgson - may have panned out but was riskier given no HC experience, Lanier - does not appear to be a better choice (ranking in mid 100s for three years with Ga ST and Caputo / Anderson - may have been good options - however, not sure how serious they were being considered.  I may be missing some, please excuse oversight.

One final thought - I do have concerns for next year but I am a wait and see guy at this point.    I had suggested one more (SO/JR) transfer rather than three true freshman and one JUCO freshman last year.  Maybe Jones/Skogman step up next year in a big way and we find one / two transfers that fit in seamlessly.  I guess we shall see.

[UBminicre]

6 hours ago, DocCas86 said:

Not me, someone else did...In my opinion these are good MAC teams capable of winning in Cleveland.  Was trying to point out how some of the criticism has been a bit overstated.

I am the one who said mediocre and I stand by that. The reason I do is because I and many of the people on this board had higher expectations. I went into last few seasons with the expectation that 2 of our most talented players in UB history + segu and others was enough to continue our massive success. Obviously nobody thought we would be the same or better from Oats team! But I do think most thought we were closer to a 50-60 ranked team. Every telecast I listened to mentions us as an at large candidate this year, so clearly my expectation wasn’t off base. 

We have and continue to fall way short of that - much closer to mediocre (ie 80-100). If you think that is not mediocre, so be it, we will not agree on what is good vs mediocre for a D1 program. 

With that being said, of course it’s early and yes we can get hot in MAC play. That is our only way into tourney so that is all we can root for at this point. I am hopeful we put it together - Williams is the type of player who can carry the team but that doesn’t mean we can’t be honest with the results to date. 

[DocCas86]

44 minutes ago, UBminicre said:

I am the one who said mediocre and I stand by that. The reason I do is because I and many of the people on this board had higher expectations. I went into last few seasons with the expectation that 2 of our most talented players in UB history + segu and others was enough to continue our massive success. Obviously nobody thought we would be the same or better from Oats team! But I do think most thought we were closer to a 50-60 ranked team. Every telecast I listened to mentions us as an at large candidate this year, so clearly my expectation wasn’t off base. 

We have and continue to fall way short of that - much closer to mediocre (ie 80-100). If you think that is not mediocre, so be it, we will not agree on what is good vs mediocre for a D1 program. 

With that being said, of course it’s early and yes we can get hot in MAC play. That is our only way into tourney so that is all we can root for at this point. I am hopeful we put it together - Williams is the type of player who can carry the team but that doesn’t mean we can’t be honest with the results to date. 

My expectations were 60/70 so not that different than you. In general I am aligned with your sentiment.  I do tend to approach being a fan from a more positive perspective and keep thinking better days are ahead...as long as season is ongoing.  If they end up ranked closer to 100 than 50 for the season...then their needs to be some serious thought about if Whitesell is the guy.  But still a lot of season left.  Even if they manage wins against WKU and UCI I will still say a lot to accomplish.

[DooleyBull06]

5 hours ago, DocCas86 said:

A fair point - however, if you consider this corresponds to 3 years 2015, 2017 and 2021, in each of the three years, at least one of the these teams was in the final, winning it once. 

I will admit my expectations for the team this year are better than where things currently stands, as I was hoping for a year similar to 2018 Oats, ranking 60-70 range and a MAC championship.  The team has a chance with games against WKU and UCI to improve upon current rankings going into conference play.  Let's see what happens in remaining games this year. 

I view this year as setting the ceiling for Whitesell.  If we end year ranked 60-70, I am ok with Whitesell - would like better but realistically, I think coaches whose ceiling at UB is say, 40 / possible at large, are rare ; if we end year 85+ - I am not so enthusiastic about Whitesell.

I tried to look back at options; considerations when we opted for Whitesell - one primary goal was keep team together - that goal was achieved.  The alternatives that I am aware of Hodgson - may have panned out but was riskier given no HC experience, Lanier - does not appear to be a better choice (ranking in mid 100s for three years with Ga ST and Caputo / Anderson - may have been good options - however, not sure how serious they were being considered.  I may be missing some, please excuse oversight.

One final thought - I do have concerns for next year but I am a wait and see guy at this point.    I had suggested one more (SO/JR) transfer rather than three true freshman and one JUCO freshman last year.  Maybe Jones/Skogman step up next year in a big way and we find one / two transfers that fit in seamlessly.  I guess we shall see.

Great post a lot to unpack. I’m over the coaching search from a few years ago. It is what it is. Whitesell is the guy. That said he came in with a win now window that is set to close after this season. Without a championship within that window things going forward could revert back to the days before Hurley. A championship extends the window and more importantly is a major recruiting chip and program booster/builder.

This is just a question for all but am I the only one that doesn’t get caught up in ranking? Oats use to say players wanna go where they can win…winning games and more importantly championships is all that matters. The rest is window dressing. For example, let’s say we finish top 65 but get knocked out in the semis…are we really happy bc we are a top 65 school? 

[DocCas86]

7 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

Great post a lot to unpack. I’m over the coaching search from a few years ago. It is what it is. Whitesell is the guy. That said he came in with a win now window that is set to close after this season. Without a championship within that window things going forward could revert back to the days before Hurley. A championship extends the window and more importantly is a major recruiting chip and program booster/builder.

This is just a question for all but am I the only one that doesn’t get caught up in ranking? Oats use to say players wanna go where they can win…winning games and more importantly championships is all that matters. The rest is window dressing. For example, let’s say we finish top 65 but get knocked out in the semis…are we really happy bc we are a top 65 school? 

I see the ranking and prospects of winning MAC championship as highly correlated.  Definitely, I would settle for a slightly lower ranking, and win a championship over the other way around.  That said...which is better predictor of long term success.. We drop down to say 110, but team plays phenomenal in Cleveland and wins or team plays really well rest of way and gets rank up to 60, but loses final by a couple of points.   Maybe the window stays open in my mind with a rank of 60 / no championship, and maybe it closes a little with rank of 110 but MACC win.

[DooleyBull06]

11 minutes ago, DocCas86 said:

I see the ranking and prospects of winning MAC championship as highly correlated.  Definitely, I would settle for a slightly lower ranking, and win a championship over the other way around.  That said...which is better predictor of long term success.. We drop down to say 110, but team plays phenomenal in Cleveland and wins or team plays really well rest of way and gets rank up to 60, but loses final by a couple of points.   Maybe the window stays open in my mind with a rank of 60 / no championship, and maybe it closes a little with rank of 110 but MACC win.

I definitely agree that the higher the ranking the better. And that there’s a correlation between a high ranking and sustained success. I just think it’s something that’s more of a discussion at years end. Right now this team doesn’t pass the eye test. But it’s still very early. WKU and UCI are two good test before we hit conference play.