12/29 - Miami (OH) at Buffalo - Gamethread

[skrabukes]

Just now, clodney said:

One thing is for sure, we will still have fans saying “nothing is wrong, we should expect to lose by double digits at home in the MAC. Did you see [major team] lost to [midmajor team]?”

Not I. This team needs to regroup, fast, and watch what make the Nate teams great. Team basketball and good defense. Hitting shot is nice, but the first 2 will go a long way towards consistency.  This group showed none of the 3 today.

They should've crushed this team today. Why not get the ball in low to Mballa and Skogman? Didn't happen in the final 10 minutes, instead we bomb away and try to make fancy plays. 58 points given up to this team in the 2nd half??? Wake up, or it's over before it began. 

[Ubbulls84]

9 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

How can Whitesell be blamed for this game? The team disappeared in the second half. Wouldn’t the blame by your logic fall on Thorpe? Who was on the sidelines. We dominated the first half after a rusty start. Look at the stats…everything went Miami’s way in the second half. It was a lack of effort on the court. Hustle, will to play defense. Execution of shooting FTs. Which I’m sure they practice. I’m not Whitesell’s biggest supporter….but let’s just call it how it is…the players sucked in that 2nd half. 

Agree the players stunk and they lost the game. But Whitesell does take blame because he lost what Hurley and Oats built the last 6 plus years!! This team has no hustle, no grit, no one takes charges anymore, and we are back to playing half court basketball and no defense. Guys don’t get back on defense and are soft in the post on defense, and the other teams know it. The lack of depth is also insane not one player has shown any real promise to be the next guy, hope that changes but so far a lot of nada coming off the bench besides Fagan who gives some solid minutes. 

[yussi1870]

I’d be pleased if this were a rebuilding year. The team plays and acts like one. I can’t image what a real Whitesell rebuilding year team will look like. Seems like he has enough supporters to ensure we’ll get a chance to find out.

[Tee4three]

This is a bad team. Never thought I would say that

They just aren't good

They shoot way too many 3s can't make free throws and play zero defense

[Big 4 Hoops Blogger]

 

[Chet]

14 minutes ago, Tee4three said:

This is a bad team. Never thought I would say that

They just aren't good

They shoot way too many 3s can't make free throws and play zero defense

It's not the amount of 3s. It's the complete out of rhythm and contested 3s. They have quickly became unwatchable. 

[Tee4three]

15 minutes ago, Chet said:

It's not the amount of 3s. It's the complete out of rhythm and contested 3s. They have quickly became unwatchable. 

True. Can live with good shots that miss

They still play "fast" but its completely without any natural pace and rhythm

 

The team plays like they just take turns being the number one option rather than an actual team that should just find the open guy 

[121Merrimac]

9 minutes ago, Tee4three said:

… The team plays like they just take turns being the number one option …

I’ve mentioned it for years, but now I’ll ask (everyone, not you specifically) until it’s answered.  Did the team backfill the mental health coach position after Nate went down south?   
Who has the responsibility to fill this position, head coach or athletic director?

[MKBullsfan]

Pathetic. Let’s start over next year. I bet this Coaching job will get a ton more attention then last time and I have no idea how we messed it up before. Maybe we need to pay more. Be ready to start the search right after the season ends in the first round at home at the on campus game. Then hire a well known name that is has played the game like Gerry McNamara or a former NBA player or a top HS or AAU coach. Be bold and get a name that can attract recruits. This program should not be in decline but growing into an every top mid major. I hate it when people on here mock those who expect more and there is nothing wrong with having high standards and expectations. Let’s turn the page soon and start fresh.

[yussi1870]

12 minutes ago, MKBullsfan said:

Pathetic. Let’s start over next year. I bet this Coaching job will get a ton more attention then last time and I have no idea how we messed it up before. Maybe we need to pay more. Be ready to start the search right after the season ends in the first round at home at the on campus game. Then hire a well known name that is has played the game like Gerry McNamara or a former NBA player or a top HS or AAU coach. Be bold and get a name that can attract recruits. This program should not be in decline but growing into an every top mid major. I hate it when people on here mock those who expect more and there is nothing wrong with having high standards and expectations. Let’s turn the page soon and start fresh.

Haven’t we gone with a top HS or community college coach before? 
 

St Johns can explain the benefits of a former NBA player coach.

[enrique14150]

I actually liked a lot of what they did today.  I thought at times, they forced bad shots (two consecutive shot clock violations in the first half) and boxed out better for defensive rebounds.  Fought for and kept alive some balls on offense (especially first half).  I thought big players stepped up today - Mballa, Williams, Segu.  What I have said time and time again, and I thought they'd kicked this habit for good last season, was that this group has a terrible tendency to lose it over the last couple minutes/half dozen possessions.  Again and again.  This game was what, 73-73 with like 3 minutes to go after Rondo hit a 3, and Miami followed with three consecutive 3's.  Right there, ballgame.  I didn't realize it, but looking at the stats, they shot 38%.  As I said after the Canisius and Bona games, you cannot expect to win games by shooting that badly.   A friend behind me said this team is missing that intensity on defense (though I thought they did better today first half), and they're especially vulnerable to quick, assertive guards (Miami had two).  UB teams over the past 2 decades have prided themselves on defensive intensity and having a guard who really gets that going.  Who on this team can you imagine drawing a charge?  This team is missing a shooting guard - while they have two guys who can shoot three's effectively, one is a small forward (Williams) and another is a point guard (Segu).  They're missing a go-to player at SG.  The team has talented parts but it's incomplete; thus they're often less than the sum of those parts.

Mballa - I criticized him for not showing up against Canisius; I'll commend him for showing up today.  When he wants to, he can be a dominant player at this level.  I don't know why he's gotten worse at free throw shooting.  And leave the three pointers to others.
Segu - had a nice quick burst to the basket tonight and scored a couple nice layups.  A couple big threes when we needed them - including one in the first half from Tony Watson-range!
Skogman - didn't have the shot today but did well on rebounding.
Jack - it was not his day.

Miami - they were a similarly senior-laden team.  Until the Bulls are better at free throws, teams are going to have the same game plan - don't worry about fouls, they'll rotate guys to keep taking them.  They were in the double bonus with 10 minutes left and I was sure a few would foul out - none of this hurt them.  
Mekhi Lairy and Dae Dae Grant aggressively go to the hoop and draw blocking fouls, but no one was up for getting a charge.  Every time they said "Mekhai Lairy" I thought of "that idiot Ashy Larry" from Chappelle Show's "World Series of Dice".

I was impressed by the run that this team went on last year in MAC play that led them all the way to the title game.  I thought these issues were behind them.  One lesson I learned after the Battle/Bortz team was that each group has their potential and their ceiling.  They're not the same, and sometimes you can't get more out of them.  I worry overall that we've seen this group's ceiling and I don't know if they're capable of more.  They're different than the CJ/Perkins teams - they're talented but they don't have the same drive, the same intensity, the same composure down the stretch.  I don't know if those are the kind of things that someone can give you, or if they're the things that you find in yourself.  (Like, we have to ASK or DEMAND a senior D-1 player to play hard, or focus when it matters?  Really?)

I hate these e-tickets.  That UB app crashes every time I bring it up.  My brother couldn't make the game, so I tried to get him to transfer his ticket over to me, but even though the men's game hadn't started yet, it was a double-header ticket, it wouldn't let him since the first game already began.  I had no problem with physical tickets.  The crowd wasn't very lively, but for an afternoon game, you get what you can.  The guys next to us never once cheered for something good, but were quick to whine.  Why bother going? Where is the fun in that?  I found I really liked getting a little amped up and nervous down the stretch, I've missed that.

They lost it, again, on a couple possessions at the end.  And overall, can't shoot this badly and expect to win.

Edited December 30, 2021 by enrique14150

[Tee4three]

I'm gonna say something and its not sarcastic or a joke

The last 2 games this team has missed and needed brock 

The guy isn't the best player and shouldn't be playing a ton of minutes but he settles the team down and provides energy when other guys are lacking it. He seems to have this contagious energy that no one else on this team has

[BrooklynBull]

I have not seen this skimming through the thread, but the is one simple reason they lost, foul shooting.

Miami: 20-24 .833

UB 19-32 .594

[UBminicre]

Didn’t watch, in Europe. Observation of the box score though, over 80% of points from 3 players…. All who are graduating. Serious question, will we even win 10 games next year? 

[mikescherrer8]

Josh Mballa the first 5 games was 24-30 80% from the line. The last 5 games he’s played, 18-38 47% from the line. Just completely unacceptable. Last night alone he missed 9 free throws. There is no excuse. 
 

The big 3 last night showed up, but nobody else did, and that’s not going to get it done. Maceo Jack, Fagan, Skogman, and Brewton need to step it up. 

[DocCas86]

2 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:

I have not seen this skimming through the thread, but the is one simple reason they lost, foul shooting.

Miami: 20-24 .833

UB 19-32 .594

This certainly contributed, the other category where we were beat, 3 PT shooting, we shot 27% vs 47% for MOH.  You can't win many games allowing that high a percentage.  Last year when they had there run...they were playing good perimeter defense.   Do they miss Graves in that department or are they simply not putting in effort to defend?  Need to improve defensively if they want to contend. 

[clodney]

15 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said:

How can Whitesell be blamed for this game? The team disappeared in the second half. 

Amazing, Coach Whitesell has somehow found a loophole in the blame game. He was hired for the sole purpose of retaining these players, yet he's not responsible when these players perform poorly. 

[DooleyBull06]

49 minutes ago, clodney said:

Amazing, Coach Whitesell has somehow found a loophole in the blame game. He was hired for the sole purpose of retaining these players, yet he's not responsible when these players perform poorly. 

Not saying he found a loophole. Nor am I saying he escapes blame for how this team has played all year. Compartmentalizing…yesterday we dominated the first half. Overcame rust and crushed the boards built a double digit lead. Then in the second half allowed 58 points! Couldn’t make a free throw. That blame falls on the players. Yes bigger picture ultimate blame starts and end with the head coach. But at a certain point between the white lines the players can’t escape blame too. This game was tied at the under 4 minute timeout…where were the big 3 then? Who stepped up? No one.

[DooleyBull06]

4 minutes ago, Erie County said:

He built and kept this roster. It all starts and ends with the coach who couldn't add a single recruit in the last 2 years to add to this. Jack hasn't made a three in 14 shots, Brewton is a walking mistake, and the only bench contributions they get are from Fagan (Oats). 

Again…I agree. I even stated that. I’m not a Whitesell supporter. And the more the season progresses the further he pushes me away. I was willing to give him 3 years to see if he can get it done. I’m hitting the panic button sooner than I thought I would. But two things can be true at the same time. Coaches coach and players play. Whitesell can’t  run on the court and shoot FTs for Mballa. Whitesell can’t run on the court and defend the perimeter. It begins and ends with the coach but in the middle the players bare responsibility also. It’s a collective failure at this point. Trending towards rock bottom. 

[clodney]

I'm not targeting you specifically, Dooley, I was just calling out the whole "it's the players' fault" theme that keeps coming up. 

We can't blame this loss on Mballa's missed free throws when we gave up 91 points and he was the only one playing any defense. He was the only starter to register a block(5) or a steal (1) in the game. The bigger issue imo is that we don't have a single good on-ball defender in our guard set and that is something that falls directly on the coach's shoulders. Whitesell never found a replacement for Davonte Jordan 2yrs ago or Jayvon Graves last year. 

[Chet]

3 hours ago, clodney said:

I'm not targeting you specifically, Dooley, I was just calling out the whole "it's the players' fault" theme that keeps coming up. 

We can't blame this loss on Mballa's missed free throws when we gave up 91 points and he was the only one playing any defense. He was the only starter to register a block(5) or a steal (1) in the game. The bigger issue imo is that we don't have a single good on-ball defender in our guard set and that is something that falls directly on the coach's shoulders. Whitesell never found a replacement for Davonte Jordan 2yrs ago or Jayvon Graves last year. 

Really great points. Ball screen defense was bad. Credit to Miami who hit shots, but our team's defensive intensity appears lacking at times. We can play tough for the majority of the shot clock, but poor communication and effort resulted in many buckets late in the clock.
 

Miami's offensive sets looked a lot like Canisius and it grinds u. The team looked worn down by the end of the game. 
 

We need another guard to give us some quality minutes. Our freshman PG plays doesn't appear ready just yet. Maybe Blocker is next Bull up?

[yussi1870]

Many coaches require their players to shoot free throws as part of practice. Does JW?

[skrabukes]

6 minutes ago, yussi1870 said:

Many coaches require their players to shoot free throws as part of practice. Does JW?

Come on, surely this can't be a real question. These guys all are like pros. They practice shooting everything tons, both within the actual sessions and on their own (not to mention film and the like). Nate's teams often had rough games (or stretches of seasons) at the line as well. The FT misses are not on the coach. If you want to find fault with other things, that's your choice, but don't lay that one at his doorstep.

[UBminicre]

The team is regressing. Everyone has regressed under JW going back to Graves and co. This year is just the pinnacle. Our extremely experienced and mature group only plays well for 5-10 minute stretches of each game. That’s on the coach. So while you can’t blame JW for every missed shot or ft, you can blame him for overseeing the extreme regression in our program over the last 3 years with this year turning out to be the most disappointing of the bunch - which really sucks.

 

[yussi1870]

12 hours ago, skrabukes said:

Come on, surely this can't be a real question. These guys all are like pros. They practice shooting everything tons, both within the actual sessions and on their own (not to mention film and the like). Nate's teams often had rough games (or stretches of seasons) at the line as well. The FT misses are not on the coach. If you want to find fault with other things, that's your choice, but don't lay that one at his doorstep.

I don’t know. Teams that have great FT shooting percentages, and I mean like first standard deviation, they ask the coach how he does it, it’s not a given just because of the team’s talent. Usually the coach answers with some practice, practice, practice kind of thing, like no one leaves until they’ve made 10 in a row.