Kent State 1-21-22

[MuchMany]

Positives

+One of Jeenathan's 5 best games as a Bull? 25 pts 11 reb 6 ast 3 stl on 64% shooting, 4-4 from three. Only 1 turnover on a ton of usage. If he continues to find his shot and that helps him settle more into his overall game heading into Cleveland, we could be in business

+Skogman scoring inside early, looking pretty damn automatic. JW subbed him too fast to get the rotation into the game early, but he was on fire when we went up 10-4. Maybe run a pick and roll for him and Jeenathan and get a switch isolated, he'll shoot 90% over MAC small forwards.

+If Mballa plays his first half defense the rest of the season, we're MAC favorites. Maybe the most active and tuned in especially off the ball he's been. 2 stl 2 blk shows up in the box score but he did way more. Tough shooting day but I think he's trending up overall.

+Defense overall was strong. By far our best AdjD game of the year on BartTorvik. Kent is pretty bad on offense honestly, blowing a half dozen layups and never consistently threatening. But active hands in lanes, winning 50/50 balls, and hard close-outs made them even worse. Curtis Jones had one awesome effort close-out (he was quiet but continues to show some nice development).

+Rondo's alley oop from Jeenathan. These guys deserve to have some fun. Imagine being the class of 2022; cancelled soph postseason in '20 (😬), then Covid hugely impacts their junior and senior seasons. It hasn't been a smooth road for them, from the coach that recruited them exiting, to what had to be the strangest couple of years to be college kids of all-time. They're our best two recruits ever, two of the most talented guys to ever play at UB. Sometimes inconsistency shows in their games too much and their development feels a little stunted, especially with the unavoidable comparison to the maturity of the CJ/Dontay group. I've come to think of the current group as just it's own thing, and what they lack in maturity and polish, they can only try and make up for in energy and swag (the bench was the most alive group in Alumni tonight). It's late January already and while there are still tons of details they'll work to iron out, it might be time to just let the team be who they are and make a run at it.

Negatives

-Shooting, FT and 3 need to be better obviously. Everything was short. 

-Inbounds plays remain a real issue for the fifth year. Not ideal come March.

-Need to work on closing the first half strongly and putting teams away in the second. Both feel like the same issue, the team stalls in moments that have an outsized impact on the course of the game. It would be nice to see JW run some deliberate offense or throw a light press on when this happens to spark things.

-General inconsistency play-to-play and lack of attention to detail. I get why people could come away frustrated from this one. Even though we were the far better team, there was enough wrong to leave doubts about how far we can really go.

 

The game was a blast overall. Felt lucky, after everything we've all been through, to be in Alumni on a Friday watching a really talented group represent us. I hope sports fans in Buffalo-Niagara catch on after the Bills win the Super bowl and fill the place up. Sorry for the long one!

Edited January 22, 2022 by MuchMany

[squire17]

1 hour ago, dutchcountry7 said:

The MAC average is nowhere near $700k. 

 

You are right. I am way off the mark on that.

[squire17]

I was way off with my claim that the average salary in the MAC for a men’s BB HC is $700k. I just looked it up some of the data is out of date, because R Murphy, and K Davis, (plus others) for example are no longer coaching in the MAC. But using the data anyways, not counting supplemental add ons or bonuses, the average base salary is a little over $350k. Mea Culpa.

[UB92]

6 hours ago, skrabukes said:

Just got up after being at a game, where UB led the whole way and wins by 13, yet nearly every post in this thread has a negative tone. Really? I guess even double digit wins aren't good enough anymore against what has been considered a "rival" for years. We must have perfection evidently. Sorry that it wasn't. Spoiler...next game won't be perfect either, nor will any following it. 

I, for one, enjoyed my time at the game tonight, and thoroughly enjoyed the win over Kent. Tough week ahead. At least a split would be good. Winning both would be very big.

 

I didn't realize there was a game until after it was over -- was busy yesterday.

I read the board/this thread just now after knowing the score and how the game played out.    The post above and the other one about crowd atmosphere (and lack of it) seems common after games, whether win or lose.

This team may be talented, Williams may have been our best recruit ever, Whitesell may be a great person, Segu may be a highlight reel, etc., etc., but there is just something overall about this team/coach that most people just have not attached to.  It sort of is in the background of most posts and comes out a little more during the games/threads.

I have been on this board and the other one for two decades, but I haven't actually felt this sort of disdain for the team, even after a victory.   Even when the team was not as talented as others and were overwhelmed in some games, there was this understanding that the guys were just not as talented as others that we were playing.

At any rate, another win.  Keep the momentum going.  Go Bulls!

 

[C1ubP1fanaticM7]

I attended the game yesterday. I can attest. Absolutely zero energy in Alumni. It was rather sad. In fact, I feel bad for the players. What recruit would want to come play for a school whose home fans don’t cheer for them? Us fans had a far worse performance than the players did.

The bench was loud and in the game which was great to see. Defensively, they played hard and had active hands. We won most of the 50-50 plays.
 

Offensively, we still seem to have no cohesion. The ball just doesn’t move. There’s no motion to the offense. I believe that’s on the coaching staff. And the free throw shooting is atrocious. That’ll bite us in the butt down the stretch in the Mac Tourney. The players need to take some pride in getting free points.

I also think the offensive is far better when we are playing through Stogman in the post. He just makes great decisions with the ball in his hands. Great court vision, passes out on double teams. 
 

But all in all, that’s 4 in a row! Wins against Toledo and Ohio, which I believe this team has the talent to do, and we’re looked at as the favorites again in the MAC!

Go Bulls!! 🤘🏽

[enrique14150]

Apologies from the start - this is long.

This team is coming to compete - which is something one wouldn't say a month or two ago.  I don't know the inner workings of the team - so I don't know if that's a matter of the coaches lighting a fire under them, or the lightbulbs finally going on in their heads, or the veteran leaders stepping up, or a mix of all those.  But that means they're not losing their focus down the stretch; they're playing better defense and doing a better job rebounding; they're keeping plays alive on offense.  I had a kids practice to coach so I missed the first ten minutes, but it sounds like they came out of the gate flying and had Kent chasing the game from the start.  The team showed up and even through some dry spells, didn't let things snowball.  Jeenathan stepped up at the end like a go-to senior should and hit a dagger 3 to push the handle on the Golden Flushes' chances.  I really liked how they were more active today getting their hands in there, tipping balls away on defense and keeping stuff alive on offense.  The kind of effort we expect from our teams.

Williams - had a double-double in a game when it seemed like he was a little off at times.  A long 3 at the end when the shot clock was winding down and they were up 7 put it away.
Mballa - good and bad.  The good was he was really hustling for rebounds and loose balls.  The bad was he was hesitant on offense, and he shouldn't shoot 3's no matter how open he is.  I want to give him the benefit of the doubt coming off covid.  I still don't know how he used to be good at free throws and no longer is.
Skogman - you can see the confidence growing.  He pulled a couple fakes and went for the basket in the second half, the kind of moves you didn't see from him even a month ago.  Came down with some big rebounds against some big opponents on defense.
Jack - his shots aren't going, but he's been tough on defense.
Rondo - had a dry spell where he like others were underthrowing their shots but kept at it.  He's getting better at leading the team with intensity.
Fagan - I'm loving what he brings because it's exactly what they need - a big body off the bench who's going to match up with some big guys and fight for rebounds, draw a couple fouls.  Especially with Hardnett hurt.  

Ever since Hurley came here, the style has been "take turns at dribble penetration, either go for the layup or kick it outside for a three."  I'm not criticizing that at all, but I love when a guy like Rondo, or Wes Clark, or Turner Battle has the ability to stop and hit a jumper.  It blows up that whole defensive setup geared towards stopping a team that's only going for either three's or layups.

Defense - it looks like they're not just doing a better job at boxing out for rebounds, but also dealing with the dribble penetration from aggressive guards.  Kent tried to do that a lot in the second half and they did a good job cutting it off.

Kent - they had a lot of big guys who on some days would've been a matchup problem for the Bulls.  I'm with some other people, I don't like Kent and I remember some really heated games in the past but it doesn't feel like the same rivalry right now.

Crowd - some good questions about that from others.  It's so tough to create a traditional college basketball atmosphere without the band and students.  (Even then, I've been critical that most of the students quietly sit on their hands, but at least they're there).  I think most of the students who go to games live on campus.  How much of the student body commutes, half at least?  What kind of outreach can the program do to try to get them to come to games?  I kinda get if you drove up from Hamburg or OP for classes, went home afterwards, you may not want to drive back up there in the evening.  I admit to being remiss about trying to organize another "Return of the Mighty Maniacs" game like the past couple years (even with a couple of us, it was a LOT of fun), there was a game or two in there I looked at but they got postponed.  I can't wait to feel the life back in the building when the band and students are back.  Who's going right now?  Alums who are either originally from the area and stayed here, or were from elsewhere and found a job here after school; plus probably some general basketball fans. But if the students who go to games and are into the team aren't from here, and how many leave here after graduation (without the same family and local connections to keep them here as much), there's a disconnect there in terms of who's going to keep coming to games.  One idea is to do like the Engineering Alumni used to - have each program's alumni group take one game and try to get their people there, have a social time before/afterwards.  

Winning feels good - especially against Kent.

Edited January 22, 2022 by enrique14150

[skrabukes]

1 hour ago, C1ubP1fanaticM7 said:

I attended the game yesterday. I can attest. Absolutely zero energy in Alumni. It was rather sad. In fact, I feel bad for the players. What recruit would want to come play for a school whose home fans don’t cheer for them? Us fans had a far worse performance than the players did.

 

The masks stifle a lot of the noise (what little noise there is). I think that hurts a lot of the emotion that the crowd wants to provide.

The lack of band and students is a joke. The fact that the school can't get any students to attend during a break is embarrassing. I know that when I went to school there, I attended pretty much every game, break or not (not asking for a pat on the back or anything, but there was literally a completely empty end zone last night). Fingers crossed that they'll have a bigger crowd (and maybe a band) next Friday against Ohio. 

[SGBull]

2 hours ago, skrabukes said:

The masks stifle a lot of the noise (what little noise there is). I think that hurts a lot of the emotion that the crowd wants to provide.

The lack of band and students is a joke. The fact that the school can't get any students to attend during a break is embarrassing. I know that when I went to school there, I attended pretty much every game, break or not (not asking for a pat on the back or anything, but there was literally a completely empty end zone last night). Fingers crossed that they'll have a bigger crowd (and maybe a band) next Friday against Ohio. 

UB has such a big commuter population too, it shouldn't be hard o get them there. Not sure if others had similar experiences, but when I was there it seemed like a lot of people who were from the Buffalo area and commuted were just not into UB sports while most of the biggest fans were from other parts of the sate. 

[SGBull]

5 hours ago, UB92 said:

I didn't realize there was a game until after it was over -- was busy yesterday.

I read the board/this thread just now after knowing the score and how the game played out.    The post above and the other one about crowd atmosphere (and lack of it) seems common after games, whether win or lose.

This team may be talented, Williams may have been our best recruit ever, Whitesell may be a great person, Segu may be a highlight reel, etc., etc., but there is just something overall about this team/coach that most people just have not attached to.  It sort of is in the background of most posts and comes out a little more during the games/threads.

I have been on this board and the other one for two decades, but I haven't actually felt this sort of disdain for the team, even after a victory.   Even when the team was not as talented as others and were overwhelmed in some games, there was this understanding that the guys were just not as talented as others that we were playing.

At any rate, another win.  Keep the momentum going.  Go Bulls!

 

The main thing for me (and I could be very wrong) but it just seems like the players care more about personal achievement and highlight plays than actually winning. They talk a lot of trash and are cocky, we have seen multiple technical fouls because of this. It would be more bearable if their play matched their attitude but then they lose to teams like Canisius. 

I think I am one of the more optimistic people on this board and was being patient with Whitesell. So I loved watching them win yesterday, but then of course Williams and Segu do something stupid at the end to leave a bad taste in my mouth.  

[skrabukes]

18 minutes ago, SGBull said:

 

I think I am one of the more optimistic people on this board and was being patient with Whitesell. So I loved watching them win yesterday, but then of course Williams and Segu do something stupid at the end to leave a bad taste in my mouth.  

God forbid they had something to smile about.  I'd wager that was Segu's first ever alley oop (receiving end) in his college career.  It might be his only. He's like 6', 160lbs, plays his behind off always, on both ends. I'd let it go. Could we have done without the pull ups on the rim? Ok, that's a bit excess. In the end, who cares, they led from pole to pole and win by double digits, now 4 straight wins. Enjoy it guys (and gals).

[yussi1870]

4 hours ago, enrique14150 said:

Apologies from the start - this is long.

This team is coming to compete - which is something one wouldn't say a month or two ago.  I don't know the inner workings of the team - so I don't know if that's a matter of the coaches lighting a fire under them, or the lightbulbs finally going on in their heads, or the veteran leaders stepping up, or a mix of all those.  But that means they're not losing their focus down the stretch; they're playing better defense and doing a better job rebounding; they're keeping plays alive on offense.  I had a kids practice to coach so I missed the first ten minutes, but it sounds like they came out of the gate flying and had Kent chasing the game from the start.  The team showed up and even through some dry spells, didn't let things snowball.  Jeenathan stepped up at the end like a go-to senior should and hit a dagger 3 to push the handle on the Golden Flushes' chances.  I really liked how they were more active today getting their hands in there, tipping balls away on defense and keeping stuff alive on offense.  The kind of effort we expect from our teams.

Williams - had a double-double in a game when it seemed like he was a little off at times.  A long 3 at the end when the shot clock was winding down and they were up 7 put it away.
Mballa - good and bad.  The good was he was really hustling for rebounds and loose balls.  The bad was he was hesitant on offense, and he shouldn't shoot 3's no matter how open he is.  I want to give him the benefit of the doubt coming off covid.  I still don't know how he used to be good at free throws and no longer is.
Skogman - you can see the confidence growing.  He pulled a couple fakes and went for the basket in the second half, the kind of moves you didn't see from him even a month ago.  Came down with some big rebounds against some big opponents on defense.
Jack - his shots aren't going, but he's been tough on defense.
Rondo - had a dry spell where he like others were underthrowing their shots but kept at it.  He's getting better at leading the team with intensity.
Fagan - I'm loving what he brings because it's exactly what they need - a big body off the bench who's going to match up with some big guys and fight for rebounds, draw a couple fouls.  Especially with Hardnett hurt.  

Ever since Hurley came here, the style has been "take turns at dribble penetration, either go for the layup or kick it outside for a three."  I'm not criticizing that at all, but I love when a guy like Rondo, or Wes Clark, or Turner Battle has the ability to stop and hit a jumper.  It blows up that whole defensive setup geared towards stopping a team that's only going for either three's or layups.

Defense - it looks like they're not just doing a better job at boxing out for rebounds, but also dealing with the dribble penetration from aggressive guards.  Kent tried to do that a lot in the second half and they did a good job cutting it off.

Kent - they had a lot of big guys who on some days would've been a matchup problem for the Bulls.  I'm with some other people, I don't like Kent and I remember some really heated games in the past but it doesn't feel like the same rivalry right now.

Crowd - some good questions about that from others.  It's so tough to create a traditional college basketball atmosphere without the band and students.  (Even then, I've been critical that most of the students quietly sit on their hands, but at least they're there).  I think most of the students who go to games live on campus.  How much of the student body commutes, half at least?  What kind of outreach can the program do to try to get them to come to games?  I kinda get if you drove up from Hamburg or OP for classes, went home afterwards, you may not want to drive back up there in the evening.  I admit to being remiss about trying to organize another "Return of the Mighty Maniacs" game like the past couple years (even with a couple of us, it was a LOT of fun), there was a game or two in there I looked at but they got postponed.  I can't wait to feel the life back in the building when the band and students are back.  Who's going right now?  Alums who are either originally from the area and stayed here, or were from elsewhere and found a job here after school; plus probably some general basketball fans. But if the students who go to games and are into the team aren't from here, and how many leave here after graduation (without the same family and local connections to keep them here as much), there's a disconnect there in terms of who's going to keep coming to games.  One idea is to do like the Engineering Alumni used to - have each program's alumni group take one game and try to get their people there, have a social time before/afterwards.  

Winning feels good - especially against Kent.

The elementary schools used to bring a bus load of kids every game. That’s out with covid.

[SGBull]

1 hour ago, skrabukes said:

God forbid they had something to smile about.  I'd wager that was Segu's first ever alley oop (receiving end) in his college career.  It might be his only. He's like 6', 160lbs, plays his behind off always, on both ends. I'd let it go. Could we have done without the pull ups on the rim? Ok, that's a bit excess. In the end, who cares, they led from pole to pole and win by double digits, now 4 straight wins. Enjoy it guys (and gals).

I have watched a lot of basketball in my life and 99% of the time you don't do that if the other team isn't fouling and trying to extend the game. This is stuff you learn in youth league sports. Will it stop me from watching the team and cheering for them? Of course not, but it is all the small stuff like this that adds up and makes them unlikeable. Hopefully they show up in the MAC tournament when it truly matters and they are playing the best teams.

 

Edit: Just to add on to this. It is just a personal opinion not saying everyone should feel the same way I do, just saying I don't like the way they act.

Edited January 23, 2022 by SGBull
Add on

[skrabukes]

50 minutes ago, SGBull said:

I have watched a lot of basketball in my life and 99% of the time you don't do that if the other team isn't fouling and trying to extend the game. This is stuff you learn in youth league sports. Will it stop me from watching the team and cheering for them? Of course not, but it is all the small stuff like this that adds up and makes them unlikeable. Hopefully they show up in the MAC tournament when it truly matters and they are playing the best teams.

 

Edit: Just to add on to this. It is just a personal opinion not saying everyone should feel the same way I do, just saying I don't like the way they act.

I don't disagree with the point, but I'm not going to make a big deal about it either. I'm just happy they won (relatively handily) and have a 4 game streak heading into a challenging pair of games next week. 

[Dabulls]

As a student at UB I try to make every home game. On occasion the school tries to promote games, usually games against rivals or talented opponents. It’s still pretty disheartening to see the lack of student support recently, I think some students just don’t care because they’re not a top 25 team like a few seasons ago. Another reason for the lack of students at the moment is because it’s winter break. Hopefully when the spring semester starts we see a rise in overall student bodies at the games. 

[MuchMany]

Student endzone has been full for a bunch of games I've been too this year. Obviously winter break right now. They aren't particularly loud or invested it seems (the glow of cellphones illuminates the sections), but they turn out for the most part.