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Ball State/UB Saturday


John

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We did win right? Against the team that beat the #1 Toledo team last week? Wouldn't know after reading these posts. Hard fought win, needed that after 2 routs of teams that weren't playing any D. Hopefully 2 more wins next week on the road before the doubleheader next Saturday. 

Personally,  it was an entertaining game and a win. Good time had by all, in the limited and relatively sedated crowd.

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Given where this team is currently, this was a good win. We can no longer expect this team to be the team we’d hope it would be. We are who we are. So given that…it was a good victory. Not the cleanest of games by any means. Too many turnovers and sketchy execution at the end but we battled back from an 8 point second half deficit. That could boost confidence going forward. Needed the win, got the win. A lot to clean up on hopefully this win streak doesn’t go to their heads as we have seen in the past.

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That was a good old fashioned MAC conference game in February.  The erratic officiating, the opponent that got on your nerves after a while, the gradually increased intensity.  Around halfway through a sloppy second half performance, I looked at the stats and saw UB was shooting 35%.  Down 8 points, I was all ready for my usual "you can't win basketball games shooting 30-something percent"...and then they woke up.  I wonder if that sequence where Williams got run over in the lane, then it went out of bounds on the other end and Rondo got in their face, turned on a switch.  After that they were a little sharper on offense, and little tougher on D, enough to take the game over and ride it out.  Sometimes conference games get a little messy, but they stepped up down the stretch and took it.

Rondo - he's developed that mid-range jumper into a key part of his game.  I feel like teams know he's going to get a step and drive to the basket, and try to force him to the end-line.  I was surprised he turned it over twice at the end - he's the guy out of everyone that I would want to have the ball there.
Williams - my brother pointed out, his game doesn't always stick out but at the end you see he has all these points.  Hit a big 3 from the corner to get them back into this.
Skogman - he was doing a great job of timing his jumps for rebounds.  Didn't take as many shots today.  His spin move along the baseline is getting stopped more but it's opening up other things.  He shoots free throws like a tall guy leaning across the table at beer-pong.
Mballa - did some good things on the defensive end, but just still can't get his touch around the net back.  
Curtis - took a charge in the lane at a time when I wondered if anyone was willing to.
Jack - frustrates the heck out of me all game (as do any experienced shooting guards who can't shoot open shots) but then makes a 3 AND gets a huge put-back at the end.
Fagan - gave us some more good, fighting minutes.

Ball State - Sparks is going to be a handful going forward.  But I thought the Bulls learned their lessons and played him better in the second half today.  Bumbalough - "Bumbalough looks like a 'bro' who's going to do stupid things on spring break." "Bumbalough looks like a guy who in 5 years is going to be way too intense in a weeknight game at the Y." "Bumbalough is going to win a Halloween contest for going out as the dude from Sugar Ray...but he wasn't dressing as anyone."  Cochran - it amazed me how someone could play that hard and not have many fouls (until the end).

Crowd - I couldn't make the game on Tuesday, so it was so nice to have the band and students back, some college basketball atmosphere.  The program needs to make a priority of engaging the commuter students during December and January to get some life in there.  They cannot afford to go a third of the season without it in the building.

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4 hours ago, MuchMany said:

Happy Birthday Jeenathan! Looking for a big game from him and the boys today. Expecting the largest crowd of the season today.

Another big game for Jeenathan as his 3-pt % continues to climb. Double digit pts in every game this season, among the other top 4 scorers in the MAC only Sears from Ohio has also done that. His current season scoring average of 18.9 would be the highest of any UB player during the MAC era. 

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Most ridiculous game thread of the season. Every negative play noted, almost zero positives. Oh well.

Can we give Jeenathan Williams his due respect before he's gone? Kid is an absolute stud. He's as hard of a worker as there is, does everything right off the court.

Whitesell (and section 114) did his best to get the crowd into it. It was an uphill battle but by the last five minutes the crowd was engaged. The refs played a big role in firing the crowd up, some awful stuff down the stretch. Jim (obviously) understands how big the next month is to the program and  his tenure. Now if he could only draw up an inbounds play.

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8 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Most ridiculous game thread of the season. Every negative play noted, almost zero positives. Oh well.

Can we give Jeenathan Williams his due respect before he's gone? Kid is an absolute stud. He's as hard of a worker as there is, does everything right off the court.

Whitesell (and section 114) did his best to get the crowd into it. It was an uphill battle but by the last five minutes the crowd was engaged. The refs played a big role in firing the crowd up, some awful stuff down the stretch. Jim (obviously) understands how big the next month is to the program and  his tenure. Now if he could only draw up an inbounds play.

+1

This game thread is comical. It was a fun game to be at. Typical bad refs but is what it is. Sparks is going to be a problem in the future but again, fun game and our team executed enough to get the win. Williams is quietly an all-time great and taking the charge down the stretch was HUGE. 

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22 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Most ridiculous game thread of the season. Every negative play noted, almost zero positives. Oh well.

Can we give Jeenathan Williams his due respect before he's gone? Kid is an absolute stud. He's as hard of a worker as there is, does everything right off the court.

Whitesell (and section 114) did his best to get the crowd into it. It was an uphill battle but by the last five minutes the crowd was engaged. The refs played a big role in firing the crowd up, some awful stuff down the stretch. Jim (obviously) understands how big the next month is to the program and  his tenure. Now if he could only draw up an inbounds play.

The lights must have been turned off again, all us positive 'roaches' have returned.

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2 hours ago, enrique14150 said:

That was a good old fashioned MAC conference game in February.  The erratic officiating, the opponent that got on your nerves after a while, the gradually increased intensity.  Around halfway through a sloppy second half performance, I looked at the stats and saw UB was shooting 35%.  Down 8 points, I was all ready for my usual "you can't win basketball games shooting 30-something percent"...and then they woke up.  I wonder if that sequence where Williams got run over in the lane, then it went out of bounds on the other end and Rondo got in their face, turned on a switch.  After that they were a little sharper on offense, and little tougher on D, enough to take the game over and ride it out.  Sometimes conference games get a little messy, but they stepped up down the stretch and took it.

Rondo - he's developed that mid-range jumper into a key part of his game.  I feel like teams know he's going to get a step and drive to the basket, and try to force him to the end-line.  I was surprised he turned it over twice at the end - he's the guy out of everyone that I would want to have the ball there.
Williams - my brother pointed out, his game doesn't always stick out but at the end you see he has all these points.  Hit a big 3 from the corner to get them back into this.
Skogman - he was doing a great job of timing his jumps for rebounds.  Didn't take as many shots today.  His spin move along the baseline is getting stopped more but it's opening up other things.  He shoots free throws like a tall guy leaning across the table at beer-pong.
Mballa - did some good things on the defensive end, but just still can't get his touch around the net back.  
Curtis - took a charge in the lane at a time when I wondered if anyone was willing to.
Jack - frustrates the heck out of me all game (as do any experienced shooting guards who can't shoot open shots) but then makes a 3 AND gets a huge put-back at the end.
Fagan - gave us some more good, fighting minutes.

Ball State - Sparks is going to be a handful going forward.  But I thought the Bulls learned their lessons and played him better in the second half today.  Bumbalough - "Bumbalough looks like a 'bro' who's going to do stupid things on spring break." "Bumbalough looks like a guy who in 5 years is going to be way too intense in a weeknight game at the Y." "Bumbalough is going to win a Halloween contest for going out as the dude from Sugar Ray...but he wasn't dressing as anyone."  Cochran - it amazed me how someone could play that hard and not have many fouls (until the end).

Crowd - I couldn't make the game on Tuesday, so it was so nice to have the band and students back, some college basketball atmosphere.  The program needs to make a priority of engaging the commuter students during December and January to get some life in there.  They cannot afford to go a third of the season without it in the building.

It was a good win regardless of the opponent we were playing, It was one of the more exciting games and great when we come out on the winning side. In spite of more poor shooting by Jack and Brewton they came together at the end especially on the defensive end. We definitely played Sparks better in the 2nd half fronting and double teaming him to prevent easy shots. We just hit the big shots in the last few minutes and hit some free throws that resulted in the win. I still do not understand the playing time Brewton is getting but a win is a win. I thought Ball State would be a tough game after they beat Toledo and losing in overtime to CMU after they tied the game on a 3 with six seconds to go. On to the next game and Go Bulls!!!!

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3 hours ago, DaBulls99 said:

Also, as per most games this year, crowd def filled in much more after tip off. Nothing like it used to be, but much better than the “5 minutes to tip” photos show. 

Attendance was 3,014. Decent for this season but nothing like past years. Normal crowd showed for tip-off. Students trickled in later.

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Good job for UB to battle adversity and come away with a win. They were clearly the more talented team today but had some rough stretches overall.

Jeenathan came up big with Rondo, Skogman and Mballa stepping up when needed in the 2nd half.

With the way the standings are shaping up, unless UB can get themselves the 3-seed, they can expect a difficult game like this in the quarterfinals in Cleveland against most likely, Kent State or Akron.

This is what MAC Tournament games are like. They passed the test today but will have many more to come.

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If we win a close game you trash the team.  I’m sorry we couldn’t have beaten a better team today.  This was the team on the schedule.  They also just beat Toledo.  
 

When we blow a team out in a highly entertaining fashion you are silent.  We get it, no need to post dreary.  
 

Go bulls!  This season and the next.  Let’s keep winning and get ready for the tournament.  Let’s support this team and enjoy the rest of the season.  

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1 hour ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

Attendance was 3,014. Decent for this season but nothing like past years. Normal crowd showed for tip-off. Students trickled in later.

Not enough on a Saturday afternoon imo. My criticism falls mainly on the students. Just walk over to alumni watch a game then get ready to party at night. I mean study.

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8 hours ago, Erie County said:

This is where we are at I guess. Gloating about winning at home against the 241st ranked team in college basketball. This was the year we were promised when the coach was kept because of continuity. "they were rebuilding" in 2019. We as fans are going to feel fooled when they aren't performing. They went up by losing this game at UB. This team was expected to win the MAC and is 1-3 against the top 4. I'd guess the game thread was ugly because of how bad the team was in stretches, including a 6 point 10 minute stretch again, and the inability to inbounds the basketball. Everyone on here predicted and expected them to win this game.

The good - They won. They've beaten CMU (330 who just lost to the worst team in college basketball WMU), Ball state, and EMU (291st). That is a boost considering the losses to Canisius(277) and Miami (255). 

The bad - they have many issues that continue to show up against bad competition.

Why the thread was the worst of the season..........

Screen Shot 2022-02-12 at 11.14.38 PM.png

In the chart above, you can point out that the team played poorly for a stretch.  Every team is prone to that, look at Ohio down by 15 to EMU yesterday. Also, you can point to a team that tightened its defense and played better offense down the stretch to overcome the poor stretch and most importantly, win.  One could point to this game and suggest the team has grown (time will tell), as earlier in the season, they probably would not have come back.   No gloating here as I would have liked a larger margin, but I am happy it was a 'w'.

Based on season to date, has this team been what I expected, no they have not.  However, they have a shot of finishing season closer to that expectation and winning 3 games in Cleveland.  That is what I will continue to root for.

Edited by DocCas86
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11 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said:

Not enough on a Saturday afternoon imo. My criticism falls mainly on the students. Just walk over to alumni watch a game then get ready to party at night. I mean study.

Saturday afternoon games were always rough for me as a student because of Friday night lol 

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Maybe people here haven’t been college basketball fans for all that long. I don’t know. I get it, we all thought we would be better than we are. Get over it.
 

It seems people expected us to maintain the level we were at when Oats left. As in one of the best seasons in college basketball history, especially for a G5. Even Nate Oats wouldn’t have matched that season the next year, had he come back. But what in college basketball history tells you it will be maintained? It was a special group of players. But we’ve been consistently good since then too, but more MAC good. It’s ok to want more. But to set that as your baseline expectation isn’t realistic. 
 

Let’s enjoy Jeenathan and Rondo while they’re here. It doesn’t mean everything is rosy, Whitesell has his worts for sure. But I’m sure Toledo, right now the best team in the conference, doesn’t think Ball State is garbage. It was a nice win in a game we sometimes haven’t shown we can pull out. Some things to work on but a fun team nonetheless. Let’s Go Bulls!

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54 minutes ago, DaBulls99 said:

Maybe people here haven’t been college basketball fans for all that long. I don’t know. I get it, we all thought we would be better than we are. Get over it.
 

It seems people expected us to maintain the level we were at when Oats left. As in one of the best seasons in college basketball history, especially for a G5. Even Nate Oats wouldn’t have matched that season the next year, had he come back. But what in college basketball history tells you it will be maintained? It was a special group of players. But we’ve been consistently good since then too, but more MAC good. It’s ok to want more. But to set that as your baseline expectation isn’t realistic. 
 

Let’s enjoy Jeenathan and Rondo while they’re here. It doesn’t mean everything is rosy, Whitesell has his worts for sure. But I’m sure Toledo, right now the best team in the conference, doesn’t think Ball State is garbage. It was a nice win in a game we sometimes haven’t shown we can pull out. Some things to work on but a fun team nonetheless. Let’s Go Bulls!

While it wasn’t realistic to expect them to remain at the level they were during Oats’ final two seasons, I think many were hoping for more than what they’ve shown during the past three years.

There have been numerous programs over the past two decades that have elevated themselves after special seasons and tournament runs.

Jim Whitesell has done well based on previous UB standards but many saw potential for growth in the program and that’s why they’re critical.

I honestly understand both perspectives and think the positive and negative posters are equally biased and flawed in their approaches.

Edited by Big 4 Hoops Blogger
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One other thing to add to the conversation, if you asked Nate Oats, Bryan Hodgson, Jeenathan Williams and Rondo Segu about where this current UB squad is at, what do you think they’d say?

I spoke to everyone of them except for Oats before the year. Williams and Segu mentioned winning a regular season title with Williams adding the words “Sweet 16.”

The people that are critical right now are upset because the team put those type of expectations out there.

Now, things don’t always play out the way you want and you have to re-adjust your goals during the course of a season. To the positive posters out there, there’s still a lot to play for. You guys are all correct. But this year is what it is, pretty meh with some hope of a run in Cleveland. Just gotta hope for the best!

Edited by Big 4 Hoops Blogger
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1 hour ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

One other thing to add to the conversation, if you asked Nate Oats, Bryan Hodgson, Jeenathan Williams and Rondo Segu about where this current UB squad is at, what do you think they’d say?

I spoke to everyone of them except for Oats before the year. Williams and Segu mentioned winning a regular season title with Williams adding the words “Sweet 16.”

The people that are critical right now are upset because the team put those type of expectations out there.

Now, things don’t always play out the way you want and you have to re-adjust your goals during the course of a season. To the positive posters out there, there’s still a lot to play for. You guys are all correct. But this year is what it is, pretty meh with some hope of a run in Cleveland. Just gotta hope for the best!

 

This is a really bad take.   The previous post you said "Jim Whitesell has done well based on previous UB standards".  Are you looking back to Tim Cohane as "previous UB standards" or early Reggie?  The last two coaches prior to this one has taken them to a certain level, so I have no idea what you mean by "has done well".  The position you have taken on this is really difficult to defend.

Then...in this post...you mention that "the people that are critical right now are upset because the team put those type of expectations out there."    It wasn't just the team -- I did a poll prior to the season and the fan base (as represented from this website) was very optimistic.  https://ubfan.com/bb/index.php?/topic/1587-predict-ub-regular-season-victories/

You think the fanbase is biased?  Check out the MAC preseason coaches -- they had UB first overall.  11 of 12 coaches had UB first.

 

https://getsomemaction.com/news/2021/11/3/mens-basketball-preseason-coaches-poll-all-mac-teams-announced.aspx

---

The season (so far) has been underwhelming.  On that there can be no debate.  Even the most ardent Whitesell supporters are likely a bit disallusioned at this point.

But...all of the goals are still there ahead of them. 

Always remember (and I think many posters forget about this, regardless of your POV), everyone wants UB to win.  It may not seem like that in a game thread, but everyone wants wins.  Our team, picked first in the MAC, lost to Canisius, so any win (whether this topsy-turvy Ball State game or the previous blowout) is something to be celebrated.

Go Bulls.

 

 

 

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