2022-23 Men's Basketball Expecations

[DocCas86]

1 hour ago, clodney said:

I don't understand why you keep comparing these coaches by simply looking at their overall win-loss records. In my mind they are wildly different:

 - Boals inherited a sub-500 team that forced the prior coach, Saul Phillips, out of a job. His teams have shown constant growth in his 3 years with records of 17-15, 17-7 and 25-10 and he's managed to not only win the MAC but win in the NCAA tournament as well.

 - Groce may be a slightly better comparison while at Akron but he took over a bare bones roster with only 3 returning players with any minutes after being fired by Illinois. He took a few years to install his system after Dambrot's Reggie-Ball style but he's shown a ton of progress and he won the MAC last year. Don't forget he took Ohio to the Sweet 16 a few years back.

 - Whitesell was literally hired to maintain an insanely talented roster and while I give him credit for doing so, he also managed to completely dismantle our blue collar system of defensive intensity and counter attacks. He squandered that talent and the team showed minimal growth over his 3 years ending with 0 MAC Championships and 2 horrendous first round upsets.

I just don't see the comparison. 2 teams have shown growth and development while the other has completely lost its identity. It's beyond simple wins and losses.

 

You make a fair point about different starting point for Ohio.  However, while Whitesell did inherit 4 talented players, he did lose 72% of the team points from prior season, and some of the players he inherited didn't pan out - Johnson and Grant and he did lose some talented recruits due to coaching change. 

I agree that Whitesell's teams have not consistently played defense at the level needed.  His best year so far, 2020-21 / Kenpom rank of 77, the team did play solid d, with Mballa leading the way.  However last year Mballa was not the same player, and the d suffered, leading to the drop to 130.  Not sure what caused the drop-off. 

This year I do think it is fair to compare Groce, Whitesell and Boals head to head.  At the moment Kenpom shows the following: Groce / Akron (110); Whitesell / Buffalo (181) and Boals / Ohio (205).  I think they are reasonably accurate for Groce.  If I were to bet, I would say both Ohio and Buffalo exceed their projected rankings.  My prediction would be Ohio (~135) and Buffalo (~145) this year.  

Bottom line, this year is Whitesell's team through and through.   I am hoping he gets them playing tough d and they are in the mix in March.  Time will tell. 

 

[DaBulls99]

6 hours ago, clodney said:

I don't understand why you keep comparing these coaches by simply looking at their overall win-loss records. In my mind they are wildly different:

 - Boals inherited a sub-500 team that forced the prior coach, Saul Phillips, out of a job. His teams have shown constant growth in his 3 years with records of 17-15, 17-7 and 25-10 and he's managed to not only win the MAC but win in the NCAA tournament as well.

 - Groce may be a slightly better comparison while at Akron but he took over a bare bones roster with only 3 returning players with any minutes after being fired by Illinois. He took a few years to install his system after Dambrot's Reggie-Ball style but he's shown a ton of progress and he won the MAC last year. Don't forget he took Ohio to the Sweet 16 a few years back.

 - Whitesell was literally hired to maintain an insanely talented roster and while I give him credit for doing so, he also managed to completely dismantle our blue collar system of defensive intensity and counter attacks. He squandered that talent and the team showed minimal growth over his 3 years ending with 0 MAC Championships and 2 horrendous first round upsets.

I just don't see the comparison. 2 teams have shown growth and development while the other has completely lost its identity. It's beyond simple wins and losses.

 

Whitesell lost 4 of the best seniors to ever play here and an entire recruiting class going into his first year. Williams and Segu were good on paper but hadn’t played much at all at that point. The roster was not what you think it was. Graves was good, not great and Cocoa couldn’t shoot and was a huge liability to be in close games down the stretch. No way did it compare at all to 18-19. 
 

He’s not the best coach in this league, I don’t think anyone is arguing that. He’s not compensated like he is either. He’s also far from the worst. 

[DocCas86]

24 minutes ago, DaBulls99 said:

Whitesell lost 4 of the best seniors to ever play here and an entire recruiting class going into his first year. Williams and Segu were good on paper but hadn’t played much at all at that point. The roster was not what you think it was. Graves was good, not great and Cocoa couldn’t shoot and was a huge liability to be in close games down the stretch. No way did it compare at all to 18-19. 
 

He’s not the best coach in this league, I don’t think anyone is arguing that. He’s not compensated like he is either. He’s also far from the worst. 

This was my sentiment too, but I think you may have stated it more clearly.  Thank you.

[ChubbyHubby]

Mballa finding out what the pros wanted him to work on hurt our team badly.  As you mentioned, he was not the player that he was the year before.  Really seemed like he spend his court time trying to better his chances for the future at the cost of the team.  

[James477]

I think if you honestly compare last years roster and to this year’s we should be in a better place.   I saw a lot of good things in the 1st game.  A freshman in the 5 who wasn’t lost and is athletic.

[DocCas86]

18 minutes ago, James477 said:

I think if you honestly compare last years roster and to this year’s we should be in a better place.   I saw a lot of good things in the 1st game.  A freshman in the 5 who wasn’t lost and is athletic.

It certainly appears to be deeper.  What can make them more successful than last year, more team oriented ball on offense and stepping up the defense.  I believe they can do that.

[ChubbyHubby]

I agree with both of you.  I'm optimistic.

[UBinMD]

18 minutes ago, DocCas86 said:

It certainly appears to be deeper.  What can make them more successful than last year, more team oriented ball on offense and stepping up the defense.  I believe they can do that.

I agree, the passing was excellent and it was crisp. You can tell they had been working on ball movement. I really liked Jack in that game. He made some really good, aggressive "big man" moves and finished well. He will have some growing pains, but these days a true, back to the basketball big man that can score is rare. That's what I loved about Mballa before his NBA experiment. He was a beast inside (ala Nick Perkins). If you get a guy like that, I'm ok with him putting up a 3 or 2 each game if it makes them feel better about themselves. Give me rebounds and points in the paint and I'm happy. It opens things up for everyone. If he can develop into a passer out of the blocks like Skogman was becoming, that will be a solid pickup.

[Chet]

16 hours ago, UBinMD said:

I agree, the passing was excellent and it was crisp. You can tell they had been working on ball movement. I really liked Jack in that game. He made some really good, aggressive "big man" moves and finished well. He will have some growing pains, but these days a true, back to the basketball big man that can score is rare. That's what I loved about Mballa before his NBA experiment. He was a beast inside (ala Nick Perkins). If you get a guy like that, I'm ok with him putting up a 3 or 2 each game if it makes them feel better about themselves. Give me rebounds and points in the paint and I'm happy. It opens things up for everyone. If he can develop into a passer out of the blocks like Skogman was becoming, that will be a solid pickup.

I agree! But what made Perkins great was his ability to space the floor and hit the three. Really opened up the lane for others to get into the lane and score at the rim. 

[bullsbball]

On 11/3/2022 at 10:24 PM, ChubbyHubby said:

Mballa finding out what the pros wanted him to work on hurt our team badly.  As you mentioned, he was not the player that he was the year before.  Really seemed like he spend his court time trying to better his chances for the future at the cost of the team.  

I thought Mballa showed some good signs on offense after his first season. I was disappointed in his last 2 seasons.  He also had a drop off in minutes and rebounds.  He just didn't seem to have the intensity.

At Ole' Miss, in his first game, he only played 6 minutes and scores 2 points.

[UBinMD]

I don’t see him as an impact player at Ole Miss. somewhere he seems to have gotten mentally off track. He has the physical skills.

[UBlearns]

16 hours ago, UBinMD said:

I don’t see him as an impact player at Ole Miss. somewhere he seems to have gotten mentally off track. He has the physical skills.

I still maintain that Mballa could be a very solid NFL TE, in the mold of a Mo Alie-Cox or Chris Manhertz (or of course Antonio Gates / Tony Gonzalez).  I'd love to see him give the NFL a shot, assuming (unfortunately) that he's off the NBA radar.