Jim Whitesell and UB Part Ways

[UBlearns]

Was browsing Reddit today and came across a bit of a sobering stat - someone posted Torvik rankings from Feb 15 to present.  He had used that methodology to figure out which teams were playing the best during the final few weeks of the season through the conference tournaments, and picked a bracket off of that.

Niagara was ranked 10 spots ahead of UB.  Not good.

(wasn't really sure what thread to post this in, seemed like the best fit)

Edited March 18, 2022 by UBlearns

[DooleyBull06]

31 minutes ago, UBlearns said:

Was browsing Reddit today and came across a bit of a sobering stat - someone posted Torvik rankings from Feb 15 to present.  He had used that methodology to figure out which teams were playing the best during the final few weeks of the season through the conference tournaments, and picked a bracket off of that.

Niagara was ranked 10 spots ahead of UB.  Not good.

(wasn't really sure what thread to post this in, seemed like the best fit)

Neither team is dancing so, how good were they really playing? We also were undefeated in the month of February. Obviously turned out to be fools gold.

The minute Niagara makes a tourney, Paulus is gone. 

[MuchMany]

1 hour ago, Jeseph said:

I'll leave this alone in the spirit of a fun offseason LOL

What were you going to add? I didn't see the opportunity for brief, pessimistic snark.

[121Merrimac]

4 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said:

… The minute Niagara makes a tourney, Paulus is gone. 

Anywhere but a few miles south. 

[DooleyBull06]

30 minutes ago, 121Merrimac said:

Anywhere but a few miles south. 

You predicting Schmidt moves on from Bonaventure and he steps in? 

[121Merrimac]

6 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

You predicting Schmidt moves on from Bonaventure and he steps in? 

No, I didn’t mean that far south.  I don’t think he should be the replacement that JW haters want. 

[DooleyBull06]

3 minutes ago, 121Merrimac said:

No, I didn’t mean that far south.  I don’t think he should be the replacement that JW haters want. 

Oh haha. JW gonna be around till he wants to retire.

[Jeseph]

8 hours ago, MuchMany said:

- but I'm not sure he's of the quality we're seeking

- to get back to the level we all want.

This is exactly what we've been saying about JW (including his HC stint before UB, poor/mediocre performance at a meh school)

And the second just made me chuckle because I'm constantly told that we're at a high enough level.

[121Merrimac]

4 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

Oh haha. JW gonna be around till he wants to retire.

My apologies for using ‘hater’.  I don’t like being considered a ‘supporter’, either.  These are terrible words.  Personally, I just don’t like the unknown.  Unless there is another coach willing to work for what UB can afford, I don’t see the point in arguing one way or the other. 

[UBinMD]

17 minutes ago, 121Merrimac said:

My apologies for using ‘hater’.  I don’t like being considered a ‘supporter’, either.  These are terrible words.  Personally, I just don’t like the unknown.  Unless there is another coach willing to work for what UB can afford, I don’t see the point in arguing one way or the other. 

Our only possible choice given the current financials we are willing to distribute is the next Nate Oats style high school coach, give him 4-5 years and he will either fail or end up at a bigger school. Our HC salary is even lower than most P5 assistant coaching salaries, so unless they really want to be the head guy (ala Coach Mo), high level "stud" assistants will take a paycut to be "the guy". I guess we will see. I'm 99.9% sure JW will be the UB coach in 22-23.

[MKBullsfan]

Would it be that big of a deal if we started over with a new coaching staff over this offseason? I mean we have half the team leaving because of graduation and our recruiting pipeline is less than average so why not make the big move now. Why prolong the rebuild another year or two? It’s not going to get any better. Let’s cut our losses and be bold by moving on. I don’t care about his contract. Pay the buy out. We were cheap in the beginning by hiring him so paying him the buyout would basically payback what a top earning coach would have been paid during the last few years. Do it. Let’s close this chapter. Move on. I don’t want to be stuck in mediocrity. Go bulls.

Edited March 19, 2022 by MKBullsfan

[121Merrimac]

9 minutes ago, UBinMD said:

... I'm 99.9% sure …

I really don’t care who the next coach will be.  My intent was to break the great ubfan divide.  Just because someone doesn’t slam a player twenty times every game thread, doesn’t mean they don’t want a better coach… as long as that coach is within budget. 

[121Merrimac]

4 minutes ago, MKBullsfan said:

Would it be that big of a deal if we started over with a new coaching staff over this offseason? I mean we have half the team leaving because of graduation and our recruiting pipeline is less than average so why not make the big move now. Why prolong the rebuild another year or two? It’s not going to get any better. Let’s cut our losses and be bold by moving on. I don’t care about his contract. Pay the buy out. We were cheap in the beginning by hiring him so paying him the buyout would basically payback what a top earning coach would have been paid during the last few years. Do it. Let’s close this chapter. Move on. I don’t want to be stuck in mediocrity. Go bulls.

‘Less than average’ - citation required. 

[MKBullsfan]

19 minutes ago, 121Merrimac said:

‘Less than average’ - citation required. 

No citation needed. Our recruiting has regressed. It’s not even average. I bet others on here agree. 

[DooleyBull06]

UB isn’t going to pay two men’s coaches. We barely pay the one we have. Plus the Alnutt is gonna have to commit money to FLJ this off-season if we have any hope of retaining her. Whitesell is under contract for 3 more seasons. UB won’t fire him bc we are trending down. Things have to bottom out more than this. Just the reality. 

[UB92]

31 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

UB isn’t going to pay two men’s coaches. We barely pay the one we have. Plus the Alnutt is gonna have to commit money to FLJ this off-season if we have any hope of retaining her. Whitesell is under contract for 3 more seasons. UB won’t fire him bc we are trending down. Things have to bottom out more than this. Just the reality. 

From TBN

 

Whitesell’s contract extension includes an agreement that the school would owe him $600,000 if he is terminated by UB before April 5, 2022, and that buyout would drop by $100,000 in each of the following years, until the expiration date of the contract.

If Whitesell is to leave before April 5, 2022, he would owe UB $600,000, and that figure would drop by $100,000 in each of the following years, until the expiration date of the contract.

[SGBull]

7 hours ago, UB92 said:

From TBN

 

Whitesell’s contract extension includes an agreement that the school would owe him $600,000 if he is terminated by UB before April 5, 2022, and that buyout would drop by $100,000 in each of the following years, until the expiration date of the contract.

If Whitesell is to leave before April 5, 2022, he would owe UB $600,000, and that figure would drop by $100,000 in each of the following years, until the expiration date of the contract.

That is a pretty cheap buyout but I don’t see it happening. I guess if it is going to happen it will on April 5.

[DooleyBull06]

9 hours ago, UB92 said:

From TBN

 

Whitesell’s contract extension includes an agreement that the school would owe him $600,000 if he is terminated by UB before April 5, 2022, and that buyout would drop by $100,000 in each of the following years, until the expiration date of the contract.

If Whitesell is to leave before April 5, 2022, he would owe UB $600,000, and that figure would drop by $100,000 in each of the following years, until the expiration date of the contract.

Ok and what’s the justification for firing him? If I’m reading this correctly, 600k followed by 500k and so on until his contract is up is still a big chunk of change for a cheap school like UB. Then you’d pay him that plus paying a new coach’s salary. Ain’t happening. 

Point I’m making is based in reality, UB isn’t gonna fire a coach off a “winning” season. Doesn’t really show to a potential coach program stability. Sorry to say, but things have to get uglier before he’s fired. A sub .500 record and no Cleveland appearance. Which potentially could be next season. 

[121Merrimac]

9 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

… Point I’m making is based in reality,…

Be careful, you’ll likely be labeled a supporter.  😂 

[121Merrimac]

11 hours ago, MKBullsfan said:

No citation needed. Our recruiting has regressed. It’s not even average. I bet others on here agree. 

Believing more than half the fans agree with you isn’t the type of data I was hoping for.  

[DocCas86]

37 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

Ok and what’s the justification for firing him? If I’m reading this correctly, 600k followed by 500k and so on until his contract is up is still a big chunk of change for a cheap school like UB. Then you’d pay him that plus paying a new coach’s salary. Ain’t happening. 

Point I’m making is based in reality, UB isn’t gonna fire a coach off a “winning” season. Doesn’t really show to a potential coach program stability. Sorry to say, but things have to get uglier before he’s fired. A sub .500 record and no Cleveland appearance. Which potentially could be next season. 

Agree.  While there are signs for concern, those concerns, in reality, may not be enough to result in coaching change at this point.  That said my hopeful nature is that Whitesell is able to bring in some good transfers and compete for a championship next year.  The one key will be if they are able to develop a bench in addition to getting a couple of starters to complement Skogman / Jones.  The question is how you do this...if you bring in a player like Sellers from Ball St...this would likely be viewed badly by Blocker However, having potentially a good starter /reserve combo ...the team is better.  Not singling Blocker out or saying Sellers will be good fit  but trying to use as an example to ask how you are able to develop the bench.  We weren't the only team in MAC that had that problem so clearly not an easy thing to pull off.

[DooleyBull06]

19 minutes ago, DocCas86 said:

Agree.  While there are signs for concern, those concerns, in reality, may not be enough to result in coaching change at this point.  That said my hopeful nature is that Whitesell is able to bring in some good transfers and compete for a championship next year.  The one key will be if they are able to develop a bench in addition to getting a couple of starters to complement Skogman / Jones.  The question is how you do this...if you bring in a player like Sellers from Ball St...this would likely be viewed badly by Blocker However, having potentially a good starter /reserve combo ...the team is better.  Not singling Blocker out or saying Sellers will be good fit  but trying to use as an example to ask how you are able to develop the bench.  We weren't the only team in MAC that had that problem so clearly not an easy thing to pull off.

That’s why the portal is dangerous. You aren’t bringing guys in via the portal to sit them. Then if you bring in a player does one of our own portal out. Very delicate balance. We have to develop our younger guys. Blocker, Mading and Williamson. I say embrace the rebuild and let them play. We’ll be better off in the long run. 

[121Merrimac]

8 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

That’s why the portal is dangerous. You aren’t bringing guys in via the portal to sit them. Then if you bring in a player does one of our own portal out. Very delicate balance. We have to develop our younger guys. Blocker, Mading and Williamson. I say embrace the rebuild and let them play. We’ll be better off in the long run. 

I agree that it is a difficult, delicate balance.  Extrapolating this example into the future though, it seems like a team would have to buy into an endless cycle of nothing but incoming freshmen.  While that might be a good rule, I think there will always be situations where transfers are appropriate. 

[DooleyBull06]

20 minutes ago, 121Merrimac said:

I agree that it is a difficult, delicate balance.  Extrapolating this example into the future though, it seems like a team would have to buy into an endless cycle of nothing but incoming freshmen.  While that might be a good rule, I think there will always be situations where transfers are appropriate. 

I look at the portal like free agency. Use it to fill holes. Not build a roster. To his credit that’s what Whitesell has done. But the players he’s brought in have been misses.

[DaBulls99]

Quick note - Rhode Island just gave Archie Miller a 5 year $8.5 million deal. Just for comparison sake. Annual salary ranges from $1.4-1.9 million throughout the deal.