bull_trojan

4 minutes ago, xDerekRx said:

Like others have said, watching Texas Tech do the same thing, perhaps even more so to Michigan makes me feel better. Although I didn't stew too much about our loss even after

Much rather get blown out than heart ripped out. Imagine being UCF... they probably also lose their coach soon...

17 minutes ago, Kevin said:

So by leveraging the university to hire you because you earned more money at Alabama and will take the recruits, that's looking out for more than just yourself? Leaving at the first chance you can in 2-3 years would be that too? Once again, whose taking anything personally? I'm looking at this from a business end and If I'm Alnutt, what does this show me?  Before you even interviewed for the job you took a flight and a job down in Alabama. Case closed for me.

I'm going to disagree harshly that it isn't a precursor to protecting your "family". If anything, you've proven that when the going gets tough, you revert to caring about yourself. 

Again, it's not leverage. If the University hires someone else, he does not have a job at UB. For all intents and purposes he does not have a job at UB today. 

He has been transparent it seems and has said I'll take the UB head coach job OR the Bama Assistant job.

The honesty is what you have claimed for 24 hours that you wanted. If he said I'm all in on UB, then left once UB hired someone else as HC you'd be calling him a snake.

You're just mad, and throwing a tantrum and calling out people's character unfairly. 

Just now, Kevin said:

We get it, the whole thing is looking after himself. Not the program he has/had a large chance to take over.  This has to be part of Alnutt's dilemma, he probably wasn't aware he'd fly to Alabama day 1 before he could even do a search. The 1 week you spent playing both sides of the fence, costs you your recruits and team. Sometimes you take risks in life, and if he doesn't want to take it, go be with Oats now or at the very least get a commitment from him how long his job would be there. 

Alnutt has to stand up for the program, the second someone re-signs to go somewhere else and my team is already losing recruits, goodbye to you sir. 

If you want someone who isn't going to take care of himself and his family... he probably isn't going to take care of his team, his players, his recruits, and his fanbase...

Alnutt has to make a hire, not based on hurt feelings, but based on what is best for the program. 

I'm gonna stop engaging but my god, but please take the advice of 1995 Monica "Don't take it personal"

1 minute ago, Kevin said:

But in the meantime, I'm taking this Alabama job and getting starting with coach Oats already plucking recruits to Bama (Hawkins announces Saturday) and no one felt the need to reach out to Andre Allen himself to talk with him (per Allen himself).

"however now I clearly determine that Buffalo is better than Alabama even though coach Oats didn't, this doesn't have to do with the money that Buffalo paid more than Alabama's assistant job"

Are we sure Hodgson doesn't take the first offer that comes his way? He sure seems like he would.

So the flip side here is:

Hodgson continues recruiting for Buffalo, tells Oats to wait for him.

In the meantime, UB hires a external coach, he fires all the assistants and brings in his own guys. Oats says, I couldn't wait, he already finishes hiring his staff.

Hodgson is unemployed.

3 minutes ago, xDerekRx said:

I hate defending people that might hurt us but I guess Hodgson has to look at this way. Oats hit the ground in Bama and is already recruiting, if Bryan doesnt get the job with Buffalo, hes going to need to be the guy there as soon as possible.

Im guessing this is putting pressure on UB to either be yes or no to Hodgson in this process.

I don't want a gun to Alnutts head for Bryan. If Alnutt think there are a couple big names he can talk to, then let him go with Oats.

Also, HC hires assistants, he has no guarantee that he still has a job at UB.

If he hesitates at Bama, he has no guarantee that Oats will hold a job for him at Alabama.  He's both highly sought after and basically unemployed.

1 minute ago, UB05 said:

That’s pretty messed up. Might be sour grapes but I don’t want Hodgson if he’s flying with Oats to Tuscaloosa. What does that say to the kids he’d be trying to keep in Buffalo??

Doesn't it say a lot?

BH: "[Recruit] get on the jet, go to Bama, see the facilities, if you'd like to go, best of luck, but I got on the jet, I went to Bama, saw the facilities, and decided Buffalo was the best place for me, and I hope you decide the same."

22 minutes ago, enrique14150 said:

Correct me if any of that is inaccurate or incorrect.  I'm angry about how this has progressed, and I feel like we have good reasons to be.  It's not always what you do, it's how you do it.  I can't help but look at this so far and feel like we (everyone else in and around this program - fans, alums, players, administration) have been treated disrespectfully.  Especially considering the support and commitments put forth.  Honor and respect are earned, and a man is as good as his word, and it sure feels like these things were broken.  Again, if there's more to this I don't understand, I'm listening.  I'm not naïve, I understand how college sports works, but don't tell me there was much honor and respect in the way this went down.  It's tarnishing what should be a stellar reputation built over the past couple years.

I dont think you do...

3 minutes ago, Kevin said:

You guys can call me crazy, but i think there is more to the interim tag, which probably leads Bryan to look around in the first place. 

I may be alone, but I think Alnutt gives/gave Jim the first crack at this.

Tell that to Twist.

8 minutes ago, everlast2504 said:

#2 if that is happening and is found out. It will pretty much be the death sentence on his career and depending on if 'Bama knows it could be massive sanctions on them .

#2 depends on how the employment contracts work. As Hodgson's options are:

1) wait around at Buffalo and maybe become HC, maybe be retained, OR maybe be fired vs.
2) Go to Bama and maybe get HC job at Buffalo.

If I was Hodgson, I'd have probably already submitted my resignation at UB and am working at Bama. If UB wants to hire me, then I'd resign at Bama and sign my contract at Buffalo.

4 minutes ago, xDerekRx said:

In regards to Hodgson I feel UB might be hesitant on him in some respect or else they would have done it really fast? I don't remember how fast oats was retained after Hurley but it seemed pretty quick

Hurley left 4/9, Oats hired 4/11.

It's been what, less than 12 hours, but it feels like 12 days.

My big question is what is Hodgson doing right now?

1) Is he calling our recruits and telling them to stay? 

2) Is he calling our recruits and telling them to go Bama?

3) Or is he sitting on his hands while this process works out with Whitesell recruiting against Oats?

If #1, BH has no credibility with Oats saying he expects BH to go to Bama (possibly the motivation for Oats to say it)
If #2, Goodbye everyone and we better hire a hell of a coach to rebuild
If #3, Oats is gonna win all those battles

So in all scenarios I see, we need to make a move ASAP if we want to have any chance...

14 minutes ago, everlast2504 said:

Should we add Avery Johnson to this list?

Only if he brings Reggie back as an Assistant

17 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Avery Johnson was hired at Alabama at the same time we hired Oats.  They both served four years.

Avery was a failure while Oats was a hero.  But Alabama is paying big money and expecting to be at the top of the SEC.

Compare the KenPom ratings for the last few years (and the standing in the KenPom rating among SEC teams):

Buffalo (Nate Oats)
2016 - 138 (13th)
2017 - 122 (13th)
2018 - 67 (12th)
2019 - 21 (6th)
MEDIAN - 94 (12th)
AVERAGE - 87 (11th)

Alabama (Avery Johnson)
2016 - 96 (11th)
2017 - 56 (6th)
2018 - 57 (9th)
2019 - 65 (8th)
MEDIAN - 61 (8th)
AVERAGE - 68 (8th)

If Oats puts teams together like he did for us, he will be fired.  He has to do much better.

For context

Arizona State (Bobby H)

2016 - 93
2017 - 126
2018 - 49
2019 - 60
MEDIAN - 77 
AVERAGE - 82

Despite being +5 on Average ranking, Hurley got molly whopped by his successor, and has no real NCAA wins on his resume. Hurley got a raise, and did not get fired.

If I was to put a formula out there for coach success I'd say it would be:

1 - Sales ( With the exciting brand of basketball, sales should improve)
2 - Ranking Trend (As long as he's getting better every year, who cares about average?)
3 - Recruiting (Assume he'll continually bring in players)
4 - Ranking Average (gotta be at a certain competitive level with peers over time)
5 - Fan Sentiment (Assume fans will love Oats, we did)
6 - AD job security (it's Bama's AD's signature hire, he won't go with a quick firing)

4 minutes ago, John said:

Again that is really my point. No one in their right mind would blame someone for taking an upgrade in a job and pay. All I am criticizing is his tone about this team and this community and again I say being happy here with his kids and wife and all the support he received from the fans and wanting to stay here and getting raises the last two years. The problem with all these coaches and people in high profile positions is they get too full of themselves and don’t know when to stop talking. Any fan that knows today’s sports culture knew Oats probably would not be here forever but his sales job made it seem like being here at least another year or two. 

People are upset about the bold but should be happy about the bold.

Was he faking this whole time? No. But it does tell future coaches, you'll love it there, your family will love it there, you can win, and you wont regret going to Buffalo. Which is huge compared to 10 years ago, where Buffalo was seen as "a difficult place to live and an impossible place to win"

I love Buffalo but I cannot do what I do in Buffalo, so I don't live there. Oats can love Buffalo but he can't make 2.4 million and compete at the P5 level at Buffalo so he left. Leaving doesn't mean he hates the city.

16 minutes ago, John said:

I wonder if Nick Sagan had to approve the hire??Alabama finished 9th out of 14 in the SEC. Their facility seats 15,000 and they had 13,000 per game last year. Did not find their attendance this year. Seen that four of their top players are transferring and Oats is supposed to be out recruiting!!!!  Even more important for Alnutt to hire a coach to keep some of our players and to find other players to come here. I know Hodgson does not have head coaching experience but all these coaches have to start sometime and no better time than now.

10,224 average this year. Average season price of $235... generating about $2.4 million for this NIT level team...if he can pack the house that would generate 3.5 million and would make Oats a very reasonable expense

People getting so in their emotions. Athletics is hard because you generally can't control your: job security, pay, or location. It's not a bank or an accounting firm where you can work hard for 

As a result, you give 100% today, and deal with tomorrow when it comes. It seems to me Oats gave 100% to Buffalo and the idea that he could build it up, until tomorrow came, and he was gone. That's the nature of the game. The alternative is him giving 50-75% to Buffalo while he's here, so he can go to the next place...and that would be worse for us.

My concern as always is that the fanbase is focused on Coaches being all about the future of UB (which is naive) but we don't hold our administrators, (tasked with optimizing both UB Athletics' present and future) to the same standard. 

If we want a coach to truly want to stay at Buffalo, we have to develop and utilize our own talent.

5 hours ago, squire17 said:

Offer the salary needed to get that person: Not good considering...

If you can't afford them, they aren't the *right* person.

And just because you CAN afford the best, it doesn't mean they are the *right* person.

1 hour ago, everlast2504 said:

I would have to disagree. The moment Oats signed on that line he wasn't our guy anymore. He's does things to benefit Alabama now. Not Buffalo. Think about it this way if Oats was leaving a program to come to Buffalo, does this all look like Oats being Oats. I'm going with a hell yes on that one. 

3/17 Selection Sunday

3/18 UB travels to Tulsa

3/20 Bama loses in NIT

3/21 Bama and Avery Johnson start negotiating buyout

3/22 UB beats ASU

3/24 Buffalo loses in NCAA

3/27 Oats hired and in Bama

Unfortunately Bama blocks online tracking of their private plane. But obviously the Bama AD (via Arizona) knew about Oats.

I don't think Oats would interview the day before or the day of a game. I gotta think 3/18 or 3/19, Alabama took the short trip to Tulsa and slid Oats a number. Oats said yes in principle, and Bama went to work firing Johnson. Then you wait for UB to lose, give him a 24 hour period to give a solid answer once he's back home that would be 3/25... then 3/26 iron out a deal and on the plane 3/27.

In hindsight the emotion about losing the seniors, may have been intertwined with his emotion of knowing he was leaving. That said if my timeline is correct, he should have called a team meeting this morning and let his players know before the media tweeted it out. Oh well.

As far as "he lied to us"

My assumption is, he didn't know what "unreal" was until he saw all the zeros. I guess 'unreal' should have been a bad sign, because what does unreal mean? We took it probably as top 10, top 20 job in the nation... maybe Oats figured his ceiling was 1.5 million...if that was his belief, than 2.4+ is unreal. He's literally getting double what Hurley was paid to leave UB.

Some of the bad feelings then I think comes from the idea that many of us view him as a 4 million dollar coach, if you view him that way, he bailed on the cheap... but if he viewed himself as a million dollar coach, he's cashing out on an unreal offer.

I went #3. He's great but it's not a basketball school. ONLY possible saving grace is the AD was previously at Arizona, so he's plugged into basketball, so maybe he see's this as his priority outside of maintaining football.

But generally you can't out-perform your school's culture.

49 minutes ago, UB92 said:

Then we found our true love -- Nate Oats.  He said all the right things.  We thought we would have a long term relationship (like the one with Mark Few + Gonzaga).  But then, after committing to us, he was seduced away by $$$.  And now we are sad, mad, confused, hurt, etc.  He broke our collective hearts.  We need the good ice cream to get over this one.

I Do, unless something unreal comes up. - My actual wedding vows.

If she gets offered Tennessee she better take it.

Is Sharkey ready to takeover?

3 minutes ago, mikescherrer8 said:

What's it even matter at this point, this sets back the program bad. And even if we get a coach who performs at the same level of Nate, they're just going to up and leave, and this is going to be the same pattern. It's all the same with every mid major coach who does well and jumps ship. It's absolutely demoralizing. I actually believed Oats when he had visions of building something here, the Gonzaga of the East. And it was all a sham. Back to square one it is. Hope we recover....

That's like saying it's demoralizing CJ Massinburg has to graduate. Circle of life bro

1 hour ago, squire17 said:

Mid majors lose to the lose majors? Excuse me! 😂 

Lose majors i.e. Syracuse

5 minutes ago, squire17 said:

If UB is serious, why would it revert to 350k + bonuses? Or have I misunderstood? If UB truly wants to pursue the big time, diminishing the salary of the new coach sends the wrong message. It says, “ Hey, we need someone to run this team that we have to have because of the conference we’re in. We don’t really want this burden...but the conference is forcing us...hutt hutt 

1) Hire the right person.
2) Offer the salary needed to get that person.

Anything else is irresponsible.

24 minutes ago, squire17 said:

Gonzaga may be the exception that proves the rule. However, in UB’s case, Buffalo got a good thing going twice. Both times it got short circuited by bigger bucks. Some on this board feel that UB is on the cusp of the real players - in basketball, at least. On a continuing basis. It is about the money! St Bona is a blip of a school - Schmidt earns 900k+ a year. UB is gushing over the fact that their ex-coach was given $837k. He’s gone. 

It is about the money! 

It didn't get short circuited...we kept it going. Thats what you have to do at every level. Blue bloods lose to the Pros, High majors lose to the blue bloods, low majors lose to the high majors, mid majors lose to the lose majors, high schools and the assistants feed the mid majors.

Circle of life. Few at Gonzaga is coach #3 of Gonzaga's run. We're now on Coach #3.