rma

1 hour ago, BrooklynBull said:

I am calling BS on the stadium as why people are not going to UB games.  I have decided against going to see any game because of the facility it was going to be played in.  I have never gone to a facility and said that I am not going to see another game because of the quality of the facility.  For all the people on this and other message boards or spying platforms (Discord for those of you scoring at home, or even if you are alone) claiming that the stadium has issues, I do not remember one person saying they were giving up going to games because of the facility, and yes I have gone to basketball and hockey games as well as concerts in the Aud.

For those who complain about soccer lines on the field, have you seen a Patriots' home game recently?  Soccer lines do not seem to be an issue for people in Foxborough.

Also, how many people beyond these boards are complaining about the stadium?  At most, and this is being very generous, there are maybe 15-20 people here who complain about the stadium.  As for removing the track, I know it has hurt UB for conference realignment in the past, but look at other stadiums that used to have tracks.  YOu can still see the make out of ht the track inside of them.  For four schools, take a look at Ohio State, Maryland, Wisconsin and James Madison.  If you look at the picture of the James Madison's facility in another thread, you can still make out the track.

Name one other FBS stadium that has worse sight lines and scoreboard than UB Stadium. UB Stadium is the worst and getting people to UB Stadium when they are used to Ralph Wilson Stadium (one of the worst in the NFL, but still much better than UB) is a hard ask.

UB can get people to big games, Army 2018 is the example, but in order to get more people inside consistently you need to be better than “the worst”. Your ability to put up with the worst stadium in FBS, from the sidelines presumably, is different than most other people that are watching the game from a mile away in the stands. Most other people are going to be more casual fans and if the experience sucks they aren’t going to come back. There’s a lot of people that are complaining (and not going) to home Sabres games because of arena issues there. No hot water in the upper level being an issue. 
 

People outside of these boards aren’t complaining because if the stadium sucks you just…don’t go and continue your September through November only following the Bills. Go on two bills drive and ask those people what they think of UB Stadium. 
 

The soccer lines on the field of Gillette are scrubbed from the field of play for football games so I don’t know why that would be relevant. When the Oakland Raiders played during baseball season I remember it was a huge hit with fans to see the dirt infield during football games. 
 

I’ve been to all four of the stadiums you listed and all of them the sight lines are better, and they have added seating closer to the field of play after removing the track. The track is awful to have but the sight lines need to be improved as well. 
 

I’m going to UB games regardless but a lot of people will not. BSF is 100% correct and if the admin just thinks that people will continue to show up without any major fan renovations in decades then there’s a real issue. 

Next Bull In

I replied to you on Twitter but here's a more comprehensive view of my take of his performance:

Accomplishments:

• Kept Felisha Legette-Jack in Buffalo for 3 more years. It was reported by credible sources, but never 100% confirmed, that in 2019 Penn State offered Jack. Alnutt got the support to get her one, two, three contract extensions and one final offer after the 2022 season that she was never going to accept. There's no doubt in my mind that if the Syracuse job did not open up, she would still be here.
• Oversaw upgrades to S-A facilities. He did not get a lot of the work done on fundraising it, but the field house was started and completed under his watch. The football team is upgrading their training facilities from a garage, and the Nan Harvey Natatorium can finally be renamed back to Nan Harvey Field and is capable of holding softball competitions instead of deep sea fishing competitions. The UB football locker room is at the P5 level now after not being renovated in a long time.
• Made a good Olympic hire, and made a commitment to another good Olympic hire. Scott Smith (Alnutt hire) has done an an amazing job with UB volleyball, a team that was a perennial doormat. This year UB volleyball (co-)won the MAC East for the first time ever and was the #2 seed in the MAC volleyball tournament. UB beat Big East DePaul and SEC Mizzou in straight sets, both of which finished their season .500 or better in conference. Alnutt also got longtime UB soccer coach Shawn Burke on a multi-year contract shortly before UB got their first ever team win over an Ohio State program. I'm personally not a fan of multi-year contracts for coaches (specifically football and basketball) but if there's no chance of him getting fired in that timeframe (there is not) he earned it.
• Got the UB Athletics Hall of Fame Back into annual inductions. I'm not exactly sure what happened here, but late in the Danny White years the annual inductions into the UB Hall of Fame ended. I don't know if Alnutt specifically started it back up, but under his watch it is back, which is good to see.
• Tiny, minor, upgrades to the fan experience. Things like beer sales, a food truck in UB stadium, and better football concession stand food this year are a good start. Concession stands are also cashless (in contract to other Big 4 programs) which makes things go faster. The Coca Cola fan zone this year was nice for the few people that were there, and I liked that it had a big screen showing other college football games. There's a lot of UB fans that are UB (the school) fans and don't follow other college football. I'd like to see some more college football fans at UB games that are rooting for UB. Hard to do in the northeast outside of Pennsylvania though.
• Not really much of an accomplishment, but one thing that I did like about him is he seemed to be one of the most visible ADs in recent times. He is at a lot of UB athletic events. One year he was out selling 50/50 tickets before a football game because it was during a break and there was no team to sell them. During the MAC tournament in 2018-19 he was out with a very non-donor UB crowd. The anti-Danny White.

Shortcomings:

• I could beat to death the Whitesell hire but you all can do that better than me. But my problem with the coaching search was that in both instances the coaching search was being done through agents and on Twitter. Whichever search firm we used sucks. Candidates that didn't get offers said in public that they were declining it. When Leipold left we had this. Regardless of if the searches were a mess or not it looked messy to outsiders. During the Danny White years, all of the searches and hiring processes would have been quiet if not for an enthusiastic niece. Bobby Hurley was leaked as the hire an hour before he was introduced as the new head coach.
• I really can't complain about the Linguist hire because I was a huge fan of it when it happened. But the nonstop rotation of coordinators is concerning.
• Lack of upgrades to the fan experience. I listed above the small upgrades. These move the needle a tiny bit, but there's still large capital improvements that need to happen. Alumni Arena needs air conditioning. Our scoreboard is an abomination, which over two years ago was "first and foremost." What happened since then? We still have a track stadium that has a football field, and next year UB is set to be the only FBS football team that plays in a track stadium. Even worse than football in a track stadium (on a field with soccer markings) is soccer on a football field (with football markings) in a track stadium. Shawn Burke deserves a ton of credit for getting some of the top soccer talent in WNY despite the stadium situation. Which brings me to...
• No facilities master plan. In the Athletic article I linked Alnutt said “We have a master plan that’s been put together and we’re going to go public with in the near future” and so far the "near future" is more than 26 months. The most recent master plan is almost 10 years old and includes facilities for varsity programs that do not exist anymore. Since that Athletic article was posted the Bills secured a new stadium location and got $850 million of taxpayer money. And New York taxpayers paid for about half ($20 million) of the Syracuse Dome renovations.
• It seems like everything is the Wal-Mart/downgraded version of what it was during Danny White. Nothing in particular that's huge, but a lot of small stuff.
  • The UB Hall of Fame, though it has been revived, went without inductees for a few years under Alnutt.
  • Gameday: Things like not being allowed to bring outside food into Alumni Arena, that seemed to never be a rule or enforced previously. I complained previously on here about being told that I had to sit in my men's basketball seats for a women's side of a doubleheader.
  • Advertisements. Awesome, we're running TV ads during football games to get people to UB Stadium! Not so fast my friend, the ad that is being run as recently as Thanksgiving day was for the CMU game almost 2 months ago. The football season is over. I thought this was just a network screwing up but I've seen the ad on multiple networks multiple times. As I am typing this now, watching the Ohio State-Michigan game, the same ad aired AGAIN (now twice in the same commercial break)! What the hell.
  • This year during the first couple football games we tried something new and innovative by having a shout from both sides of the stadium (think WE ARE! PENN STATE! or LET'S GO! MOUNTAINEERS!) but it's clear that both whoever planned that and the PA announcer had never experienced something like that. The PA announcer said all three sides of it multiple times-so nobody knew if you were supposed to say what he was saying or say it afterwards. And "Go Blue, Go White, Go Bulls!" is much harder to execute than "Let's Go! Buffalo!"
  • It's small, but another example is the cheap crap they gave away to STH last year as a concession for having only 5 games. One of them was a license plate cover. A year later it's pretty faded.
  • I'm sure there's a ton more.
• The merchandise situation has not improved. I really want a UB football jersey that is more recent than the one I have signed by TG. I refuse to buy the cheap AliExpress crap that is being sold because I can get one from AliExpress for half the price. If you don't want to deal with NIL find out some way to sell Mack jerseys. Or for basketball I think a lot of people would buy a good quality 5, 33 or (WBB) 24 jersey. The retro bull shirt was great but the roll out took too long to get it online. I shouldn't have to be buying shirts and shipping them to UBFan members, though I gladly did.
• I think there was a lack of due diligence done on the Becky Burke hire.  I'm speculating a bit here but it's an absolutely terrible look when your new coach only has one returner from the previous coach, seemingly on purpose (another cryptic tweet from a WBB mom the day her daughter went into the portal). Then one player quits during the season citing mental health in a now-deleted instagram post. And all of your coaches leave, one not loving basketball and wasn't happy. And most of your roster leaves after that first season (toxic environment?). This seems to be similar to what happened at USC Upstate too. Not a lot of that roster stuck around. It also says quite a bit that only one (1) player followed Burke here.

The new Bills stadium is going to price out a ton of western NYers from live football. I've always touted UB as the family and budget friendly alternative to the Bills and Sabres. UB will never replace the Bills, but you will have Bills season ticket holders that will move to attending a few games a year. Bills fans that might attend 3 or 4 games a year might drop to 1 or 2. Ticket prices are already up. There has to be a way to get people that are now watching the Bills from their couches on Sunday into UB Stadium on Saturday to watch live football. But you can't do that with a track stadium and a scoreboard that is worse than the one in RWS over 20 years ago. Time is of the essence and I really don't have a ton of confidence in Alnutt to not fumble the opportunity out of the endzone for a touchback.

It really sucks listing all this stuff out, but right now there's people that care. And that's much better than not having people that care.

29 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:

If the football program disappeared tomorrow, would UB's enrollment decline?

If the Buffalo Bills moved to San Antonio, would the population in Buffalo decline?

The answer is no to both questions, but people like football so that's why us taxpayers are paying $850 million (UB's annual operating budget) to a billionaire to build a new Bills stadium. And the same reason why UB students pay $265 a semester to subsidize athletics.

Taking a look at Big 4 Women's basketball sweeps

2023-24: Buffalo

2022-23: No Sweep

2021-22: N/A (Buffalo won vs Niagara/Canisius, DNP Bona. Bona beat Canisius in their only Big 4 game)

2020-21: N/A (Buffalo won vs Bona/Canisius, DNP Niagara. Niagara did not play any Big 4 games)

2019-20: Buffalo

2018-19: Buffalo

2017-18: No Sweep

2016-17: Buffalo

2015-16: Bona

2014-15: Buffalo

2013-14: Bona

2012-13: Bona

2011-12: Bona

2010-11: Bona

2009-10: Bona

2008-09: Bona

33 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:

Remember when they shoved the baseball team onto a little league field behind Northtown Center that was always flooded for half of its season

The D1 plan was always "fund the football program, everything else is a formality"

Trickle down economics has never worked

There was a plan to build an on campus baseball facility during the Danny White years. Meanwhile the football stadium has not had any significant upgrades to the average spectator in decades.

Burke gets her first Big 4 sweep. As Rana Elhusseini dribbled out the clock at the end, with less than a second to go there was a Bona player who tried to steal the ball. Looks like we should run up the score next time.

2 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:

Ok, but even if UB football won the MAC, went undefeated, and had a strong team with a player of Khalil Mack's caliber...they're still never getting invited into the college playoffs

So what's the point in having football exactly

Sounds like the system is broken. It's getting (kinda) fixed soon though.

Ivy League doesn't send their teams to the FCS playoffs, why do they play football? It's a marketing arm for the school, kids want to go to a school that have things to do other than just school. Encourages alumni involvement, etc.

Ladies up 7 with under 5 to play. Huge game from Watson so far.

17 hours ago, RapidsFan said:

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/217600-2023-ub-football-thread/page/54/#comment-8693886

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/217600-2023-ub-football-thread/page/55/#comment-8731393

Just because I saw it repeated there, the old TBN narrative of "drop UB football [entirely/to FCS], become a national power in basketball" does not work and never will work.

Canisius dropped football (and 5 other sports) in 2002. Since then Canisius has made 0 men's basketball NCAA tournament appearances, 0 NIT appearances, 1 NCAA women's basketball appearance, 0 WNIT appearances, 2 NCAA men's hockey tournament appearances.

Okay but Canisius was FCS, let's look at FBS:

Last program to drop from FBS to FCS was Idaho in 2017. The decision to drop to FCS was prompted in part by the football team being conferenceless, but putting that aside. Idaho has made 0 men's basketball NCAA tournament appearances, 0 NIT appearances, 0 NCAA women's basketball appearances, 0 WNIT appearances since the drop to FCS. Worth noting their longtime men's basketball coach was fired around the transition to FCS for NCAA violations. Even so, their men's basketball team last made the NCAA/NIT in 1990.

Next drop from FBS to FCS was FAMU in 2004. Much different school profile (HBCU vs Flagship) but since the drop to FCS they made the men's NCAA one time (lost to Niagara in a play in), 0 NIT appearances. Women's basketball has not made it to the NCAA tournament or WNIT either.

The next most recent team to drop from FBS was University of the Pacific after the 1995 season. Different profile as well (private vs Flagship). Their basketball team has gone to the NCAA tournament 5 times in the 27 possible seasons since the announcement, making it past the first round twice. They also made the NIT once. Their women's basketball team has made the WNIT a few times recently but hasn't made the big dance (ever).

Prior to that, Cal State Fullerton dropped football entirely in 1992. 3 men's tournament appearances, 1 NIT. 0 women's NCAA appearances, 0 WNIT. Worth noting Cal State Fullerton has a widely successful baseball team that had success prior to and after the discontinuation of football.

Next up, Long Beach State dropped football entirely in 1991. Similar situation. 4 men's NCAA appearances, 6 NIT one-and-dones. 2 women's basketball tournament appearances, 4 WNIT appearances. Coincidentally, football was dropped immediately after a stretch of women's basketball that included 2 final 4's. Long Beach also has a successful baseball team similar to Fullerton, with 2 CWS appearances in the 90's and a bunch of NCAA tournament appearances after 1991.

The best example that I can find of even a remote chance the "drop football become gud at basketball" argument works is Wichita State. After the 1986 season, the football program was discontinued because of financials. Since then 11 men's tournament appearances, 7 R32, 3 S16, 1 F4. Won the NIT in 2011. Women have 3 NCAA appearances, 4 WNIT.

However

Wichita State did not become a powerhouse basketball program until Gregg Marshall got to campus, which was a full 20 years after football was dropped. Between football being dropped and Marshall being hired there were 3 NCAA tournament appearances and 1 S16. There was a stretch of 7 years without a winning season.

Dropping football (to FCS) does not make an athletics program magically turn things around. It is the investment of the school that determines this.

James Madison University had a stadium that looked like this 20 years ago.

This is their stadium now:

We had a stadium that looked like theirs 20 years ago. And we still do.

It's the level of commitment from the university that is going to determine where resources go. When that photo was taken JMU had two conference championships: 1975 and 1999. Since then, they've added 8 conference and 2 national championships.

JMU has an endowment of $155 million and a budget of $628 million. We have an endowment of $1 billion and a budget of $850 million. Axing football isn't going to magically give those millions to basketball.

8 hours ago, Fedup said:

I’m done. I have forever written off this school’s athletics. I won’t spend another penny on season tickets or fund raising. Allnut and Mo have killed the program. BTW, Bball team got hammered by Hofstra. 20 loss season is coming. I’m done suffering Darcy.

You were around last year when the team lost to Holy Cross, but weren’t around for the bowl win against a decent Georgia Southern team (that beat Nebraska). Or the come from behind win against Toledo. Join us in the good times too, not just the bad times 🤘

Ready for Burke's first Big 4 sweep and to go 5 for 6 against them

9 minutes ago, clodney said:

Why can't we steal and up and comer from a school in a smaller conference like the NEC?

Did that with women’s basketball

Turns out nobody wants to play for her or work for her. 
 

Our best football/basketball coaches have been:

High school head coach turned UB assistant

D3 head coach

P5 head coach

P5 position coach/NFL front office

A10 assistant

No secret recipe for success

7 minutes ago, Tee4three said:

I'm worried the coaches that Nate oates beat by 30+ for a couple years in a row still remember and will take their turn doing right back to ub this season

There are a couple Mac teams that might beat this team by 50+

The only coaches left are Senderoff (Kent), Groce (Akron), and Kowalczyk (UT).

But unfortunately those are the teams that can beat this team by that amount.

2 hours ago, Sportsfan said:

not an affordability issue from what the story is

Was Nate Oats also not an affordability issue? What was the plan to pay Leipold close to $3 million per year at UB?

Hot. Don't think he's getting fired but don't think his contract will be renewed. 2.5 years left of his contract.

Stonehill threw up garbage shots all game and amazingly made some (though very few) of those shots. Air balls and shots that weren’t even close to the basket if they could even get a shot up during the lengthy shot clock were plentiful. UB should have won this game by 50, and Burke seemed to feel the same way. Shortly after the start of the second half she yelled something to the players on the court along the lines of “You have to play better, it’s embarrassing.” Normally a good lead at the half isn’t embarrassing but 23 points isn’t going to work in MAC play. 

2 hours ago, Blue03 said:

I fear Dec 2, I don’t want to hear all the Bonnie’s fans when they’re up by 40

For some reason even in the not great years we play them close. That being said I’m expecting to get blown out by them this year. Good thing there’s no rivalry though, I’d hate to lose to a rival.

EMU is reportedly getting rid of their track, the second to last one left in FBS. Looking forward to ours being removed as well. And it appears that we still have the same video board. Maybe, someday, that will get fixed. 

During the Oats years tickets were well below what they should have been. You aren't getting into a top 25 program anywhere in the country for $10 (M&T zone, cheapest ticket) a ticket. Even in rebuilding years I think we're the best value in town. Maybe you could make an argument for Bandits but you either have to pay to park or walk.

Looking at MAC schools we're right in the middle for cheapest seasons. For Big 4 we're above CC and NU (can't find Bona), and we're on the cheap side of SUNY

Ohio $100 ($60+$40)

Niagara $115 ($105+$10)

NIU $115 ($80+$35)

Akron $115 ($60+$55 or more?)

Miami $120 ($50+$70)

Canisius $130

Kent $140 ($85+$55)

CMU $145 ($95+$50)

EMU $150

Albany $175 ($100+$75)

Buffalo $175

Toledo $175 ($80+$95)

Binghamton $200 (or $165 MBB only)

Stony Brook $215 ($150+$65)

WMU $220 ($180+$40)

Ball State $223 ($169+$54, though WBB might be included with mens?)

BG $235 ($150+$85)

The cheapest Sabres season tickets are $1,100

12 Bisons tickets are $153, can't find a season ticket cost.

Bandits cheapest season are $230

That all being said I do have gripes about the ticketing. The cost for reserved seating in 101-105 (seats opposite the benches) is too high. Going off last year's prices of $425, the breakeven is 12 men's games (those seats go for $35 for single games). If you aren't going to women's games, you're likely better off just buying single game tickets unless you can make all of the home games.

Sometime in the past few years a $50 "donation" was added for the season tickets behind the benches. Those are the seats you want people in because they show up on TV.

Flexible tickets are the way to go and to get families to games. We had an option a few years ago that seems to have disappeared. UB is a family friendly atmosphere that isn't going to break the bank (free parking), but we need to get people in the door. Flexible tickets make it easier to get families in.

2 hours ago, JFH47 said:

Since I’m venting I also suggest that they fix the internet in the Arena.

Agreed. It seems to go in and out. Once I can connect to wifi it works but at times it's a struggle to do that.

From looking through past standings, both Buffalo and Ohio (both with 12-5 records) will be MAC East Champions with a win. At least in volleyball, possibly all sports, the conference does not tie-break division champions so the same result for both teams on Wednesday will result in a co-division championship. This is unless something changed since the 2019 volleyball season where CMU and Ball State were both recognized as division champions.

Hopefully Reggie's crew didn't say anything to hurt JB's feelings today. Either Canisius is turning it around or Syracuse is not good.

2 hours ago, Fedup said:

the State should withdraw this program from Div 1 and go to DIV 3.

Been there, done that. Awful decision.

4 hours ago, NC_UBfan said:

Well, we did have a freshmen of our own Lewis-Williams start and have a good game 16pt (6-13), 3reb, 3ast, 2stl, 1blk. Another Davis first off the bench put up 9pts(4-6) 5reb So I think it will be fun to see them match up in conference play

Good point. I forgot she's a freshman because she might have been the best player on the court vs Canisius. Paula Lopez (also a freshman) looked good defensively vs Daemen but didn't play much against Canisius.

1 hour ago, UBinMD said:

Should be a good game. On a sidenote, one our of previous recruits that was part of the Great Exodus, played her first game at Bowling Green, played 32 minutes, 20 points, 7-10 shooting (4-6 from 3), 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals and ran the point. She could be a major loss and 4-year thorn in our ass.

Hopefully a teachable moment for our coaching staff as to what not to do. Just have to think “what if” for the next four years.