dutchcountry7

10 hours ago, ed said:

Point is, fans don't care about the arena, period, if there are compelling games. 

In a tropical vacation destination...

1 hour ago, ed said:

What D1 game / tournament is really "about the fans"? We going to Ireland for... the Irish u fans? We expecting a huge travelling contingent?

That’s the point... These holiday tournaments have nothing to do with a team’s home arena. 

Home games are important for building a fan base but the holiday tournaments are important for getting high quality games and recruiting  

58 minutes ago, mikescherrer8 said:

Except, I never insinuated that no other programs have done what UB is doing. In fact, comparing it to what Gonzaga and Butler have done. Stop being so dense. 

So you’re saying UB is like Gonzaga and Butler?

You mean where they were 20-25 years ago when they were getting at large bids?

9 minutes ago, rma said:

They're also 58 in RPI.  I don't think any of the stat rankings are going to be super accurate this early in the season

I think they're slightly below average.  Not bad, not good.

Ha ha. Come on... take off the blue tinted glasses.

We we all know the RPI is the least accurate early in the season. 

Currently it has Belmont #1 in the country and Liberty #5. 

Are you you really going to cite a metric that has The Citadel as a top 20 team nationally?

not to mention the NCAA is no longer using the RPI as theif statistical metric. 

30 minutes ago, rma said:

40 point win vs a not bad team (most importantly a team that has some name recognition, not eastern south carolina A&M&T state)

Dunk city

Ranked team

 

I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying if that was your first game you are surely coming back for more.

Not a bad team?

Dartmouth is #259 in Kenpom and #271 in Sagarin. 

That’s worse than EVERY team in the MAC. 

Sure, they are better than Central Penn, Nazareth, and Pitt-Bradford but is that actually considered not bad?

7 hours ago, MillenniumBull said:

Duke will still never play at Gonzaga. Keep winning and start seasons ranked and get invited to better tournaments.  Takes time. Unless this new arena is equipped with a time machine, don’t bother.  Blue bloods aren’t playing an away game anywhere they could possibly lose anyway.

Yup. 

9 hours ago, mikescherrer8 said:

1. Great Coaching (Mark Few)

2. Constant success in a mid major conference, Yes, it is a mid major conference, do not stray away from that. That constant success that lead to them building a fan base and into a national powerhouse (with a 6,000 seating capacity that didn't require to expand the seating capacity)

3. Ability to recruit players.

4.  The university's commitment to basketball. 

That's to just name a few.

Let this stick in your head...... 20 years ago, Gonzaga was a nobody, tiny mid-major team. Until Dan Monson found success with them and then they hired Mark Few and the rest is history with that team. 

I'm not saying the MAC is on the same level as the WCC, in fact, it's much worse. However, the WCC, IS STILL A MID MAJOR CONFERENCE......a conference in which UB can probably beat every single team in, perhaps except Gonzaga, sort of like UB can do in the MAC. Nobody cares Gonzaga is in a shit tier conference, Gonzaga beats really good teams every year, and that is something UB can do in the future on a consistent basis. But for you to take the easy route and say, oh well, obviously people around here aren't going to care that much, since they play in the MAC, what a weak take. This is Bills and Sabres country, an area with NO college sports atmosphere. 

UB finds true success in the last 5 years or so, and you expect Bills and Sabres country to just jump all-in and fill the stands? Not going to happen. It's going to take a while, a long while.. Nate Oats is already headed into that same direction as Butler or Gonzaga and is showing that he can contend with good teams. UB has to win, and win a lot. Pretty soon, WNY is going to notice, and they're going to fill that so-called "high school gym looking arena". It's going to take a long time for the community to catch up. And all of that has nothing to do with what conference they play in and what arena they play in. Gonzaga has already proved that, with winning, and winning a lot year after year. And that's just what UB has to do. Can Nate Oats take us there? I guess we will find out.

Sorry for the cluster from my stance. I think the blame of the arena and conference excuses is a weak cop out, and those are not the reasons from a lack of community support. 




 

You act like no other programs have done what UB is doing. 

Gonzaga is the extreme outlier that every program in the country playing in a one bid league aspires to be.  

7 hours ago, ed said:

And they just beat #1 Duke in a tourney that seats like 2000 people. Not a single f#ck was given by anyone about the stadium. 

You know Maui is not about the fans, right?

6 hours ago, mikescherrer8 said:

Does Gonzaga winning the WCC every year impress fans? Or is their ability to beat really good out of conference opponents and win numerous games in the NCAA tournament do the trick? 

Why do you think the team that is the only ticket in town and just knocked off Duke has a smaller facility than UB?

but let’s not pretend that Akron and Ball State are anywhere near the level of St Mary’s and BYU. 

Imagine this is the first game someone comes to because they see Buffalo was ranked. 

Do you think they enjoined the game and will want to return to buy tickets for more of this?

25 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

So in summary: we should win all games (especially against ranked opponents), make the sweet 16 (or better) every year, improve the arena, only play games on nights w/o local entertainment while all students are in town and improve student seating without taking good seats away from the public.

I think we should be able to do this all starting next year.

And don’t forget if you don’t do all of those things you’re accepting mediocrity...

43 minutes ago, bull_trojan said:

I don't get how it is a blue-tinted comparison, I did the research first, conclusion after, there was no intent to pair UB and SMU, because honestly I don't put SMU up there as a great basketball school.

WKU is a good comparison, although they were more consistently good 10 years ago than now. UNCW hasn't had our level of success. Moreover, only SMU has the competition from a NHL/NBA team.

Wins past 10 years:
UB 199
WKU 199
SMU 197
Bona 184
UNCW 141

Wins past 5 years:
SMU 126
UB 106
Bona 104
WKU 101
UNCW 92

NCAA Tourney past 10 years
UB 3 appearances, 1 round of 32
WKU 3 appearances, 1 round of 32
SMU 2 appearances
Bona 2 appearances
UNCW 2 appearances

When SMU or Bonas get bids it is because they are at-large type programs.  Even when teams from those conferences win the conference they have to beat at-large teams to get there.

That is a lot different than the MAC.  Buffalo hasn't had a at-large team yet.  We know this because at-large teams play in a seed at or above the play-in game. 

This is why you can't compare them to SMU.  Yes, they both compete with pro sports but when they are getting into the tournament they are at a much higher level nationally.

I don't think anyone cares about the MAC.  Winning the MAC isn't going to impress casual fans anymore than winning the Ohio Valley, CUSA, or the CAA.

Getting wins in the MAC aren't the same as getting wins in the A10 or the American. 

You notice Bonas hasn't had a spike in fans either and they have had at-large bids and play in a conference that gets them some really good home games with top teams. 

This isn't even going to be close. 

Get ready for the highlights. 

14 hours ago, bull_trojan said:

Can ya'll define "consistently good program" in both level of success to be considered "good" and length of time needed to be considered "consistent"

I think sometimes easy answers like "consistently good" are easy answers because they are undefined.

There is a difference between being good and being good enough to get people to bandwagon.  The Bulls have been good.  But winning the MAC isn't nationally good.  And nationally good is when you get the bandwagon effect.  Unfortunately, one win at the tournament doesn't do it.  It was a HUGE win but every year there are some Mid-Majors that get those wins and you don't see them suddenly packing out their stands.

The program needs a few years of winning games at the tournament.  The fans need to see that Buffalo is not just the best team in the MAC but one of the best teams in the country and that it is expected that they will be good every year.

It is still a ways off from turning the heads of people in the Buffalo community.  A lot of them like the idea of the Bulls doing well but getting them to show up to a game is a whole other issue. 

6 hours ago, bull_trojan said:

I did a lot of research and found 18 teams that last year had 4k+ on average AND filled 74%+ of their building. 

I included Buffalo and made a rudimentary metric to score the quality of their past 10 seasons, Gonzaga, Wichita State, Butler and Xavier were a clear tier 1, tier 2 was VCU, SDSU and Dayton, then there is a tier 3: #8 Creighton, #9 SMU, #10 Nevada, #11 Providence, #12 Davidson, #13 Buffalo, #14 Rhode Island, #15 WKU, #16 Richmond, #17 Bona. Then a clear Tier 4: #18 UNC Wilmington and #19 GCU.

As a reminder, this is a measurement only of the teams with the 4k average and 74% capacity (plus Buffalo).

SMU ended up being a really good comparison:

 

I think those are some blue tinted glasses.

I don't think SMU is a good comparison.  WKU and UNCW are probably the better comparison.

Also, as much as we rip on Bona not having anything to do down there, the reality is that most people at their games aren't from Olean.  Based on the conversations I have had with fans from the school most of their fans drive in from the games and many of them are from the south towns.

4 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:

Around that time SMU hired Larry Brown and he brought a lot to the program that increased interest, until they found violations.

Let's hope the same doesn't happen to UB...

42 minutes ago, ed said:

How many people in the community even know what the facilities are like? Hell, it'd be interesting to know what percentage of the STUDENTS don't know what the facilities are like.  

Seriously. 

I would first have to see that people are showing up the Bulls games and leaving saying "Never again will I go to that facility."  How many people are showing up to Bulls games in the first place?

2 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:

Well the World's Most Sexist Famous Arena, Madison Square Garden, is a multipurpose gym.  Basketball, hockey, tennis, concerts, dog shows, political conventions and more.  So multipurpose is not really a problem for getting people to a venue.

That is the reason no one will go to the Carrier Dome.   You can't share a football, basketball, and lacrosse facility.  The people will revolt and not show up in protest.

If it is one thing we know about people of Western New York it's that they are accustomed to fine things.  When you live a life of luxury, you expected to have the best arena in the world and wouldn't be caught seen in anything less!  

30 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

I don’t think Olean has internet service

Stop!

they have had dial up for at least three years now...

3 hours ago, bull_trojan said:

 

Same equation in a 10k building you'd have 4,500 seats at $20 up to 7,000 seats @ $13 to sell in order to afford that opponent.
 

First: Alumni Arena is a sunk cost. It is already built and fitted out. Building a new or expanded facility changes your figures drastically. 

Second: that’s not how buy games work. You can’t buy West Virginia for $90k. You can buy Hofstra or Vermont for $90k. 

1 minute ago, BullsFan14 said:

Don't mean to be a jerk.

You are comparing Katy, TX School District as a regular high school? 

They just completed a 70 million dollar football stadium for 12,000 people. (UB Stadium is the equivalent of around $40 million today)

Not being a jerk.

I think it is crazy that they, and other schools like them, are building those facilities.  St. Mary's has great success with a high school gym.  LINK

The reality is that there are high schools that are building lavish facilities.  But that doesn't mean that Alumni Arena is a problem for UB or that a renovation is a wise use of the limited money the program has. 

14 minutes ago, TML1000 said:

What high school gym(s) look or feel similar to Alumni?

I can think of a few but my favorite is the Katy Independent School District.   Link

It's just two different tournaments with some cross over games.  Just a little strange since all the programs are really peers of each other. 

The red areas in the picture above are a lot of dead space and has been the one things that has been on my list of things I would change, but with that said, the facility isn't a problem. 

And I agree 1000% that the football stadium is the real issue with facilities. 

Interesting that they moved up when their ranking is based on the WVU win and WVU has dropped a few games and then fell from the rankings.

I am cautiously optimistic but hope that the program isn't over ranked so that they fall hard with one stumble.  

2 minutes ago, mikescherrer8 said:

UB didn't start being remotely competitive at basketball until, what, 15 years ago? 

Sure, they have been competitive (top-150 team) on a pretty regular basis in the last 15 years but that doesn't really move the needle for the casual observer.  It isn't until they see some national recognition or competition against programs they respect that they take notice.  Beating WVU is big.  Beating Syracuse will be bigger. 

3 minutes ago, mikescherrer8 said:

 This UB men's team the last 4-5 years or so is the most consistent success of any major college sport in WNY history.

Niagara, Canisius, and St. Bona have had more success.  That is part of the reason they have fans.

The UB students who are at the school now and are going to games will be the fans that return to campus to buy tickets in five years.  Your graduating students who enjoy going to games are going to become your biggest fans and the most loyal to the program.

The program is so young.