UBigbobby

On 3/28/2019 at 5:43 PM, John said:

OH Yeah!!! They will be fine like Canisius and Niagara. Two programs in total shambles with the best players transferring, coaches fired,coaches in total burnout and crumbling fan bases!!!!!

This is a bad comparison.  If you can't see the difference between UB and Canisius and Niagara, it's not worth even having the discussion.

10 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

I agree with some of your points but I think there's an undervaluing on stability. Sure there are long-tenured coaches that have "wallowed in mediocrity" or "settled into a limited ceiling", we don't want that. At the same time this sort of revolving door of coaches we could be headed towards (Hurley, Oats, next?, next?) isn't a proven model for success either? Having a coach build a program over a number of years would also allow them to establish somewhat of a coaching tree. The Hurley -> Oats -> Hodgson path sort of followed that but all were up-and-comers with limited experience that leave less of a "tree" behind them.

I'm rambling a bit and this is all complicated but I do want more stability than we're looking at now (with continued program growth).

IMO there are two proven models of success for a Mid-Major hoops program.  

1. Get absolutely amazing for a couple/few years in a row and parlay that into a jump to a bigger conference (Wichita State, Butler, Davidson)

2. Become Gonzaga.  

There are no other models that I've seen that result in serious long term success.  All other programs fall victim to the same mid-major issues around sustained success. 

9 hours ago, weareub46 said:

Also the whole SUNY not allowing us to be a flagship pisses me off so much. I’m so sick of them holding us back so all the other schools who don’t even have division 1A football can get a share. Idiotic 

As a UB alum that doesn't care about the rest of SUNY, yes, it's infuriating.  However think of it from a state-wide standpoint.  The goal of SUNY is to provide an EQUITABLE high quality education to NY residents.  The classic Ohio-style model of one amazing school (Ohio State) and 10 shit ones (Akron, OU, Kent, etc.) isn't very fair or equitable to Ohio residents.  If you want a top quality Ohio education you need to go to Columbus.  If you can't afford that or your circumstances don't permit you to, well..here's your diploma from fucking Toledo, I guess.  SUNY doesn't want that situation.  The 4 university centers are spread across the state and SUNY wants a similar level of education at each of them, so no matter where you're from the state, you have access to a high quality public education at a major university.  This is undoubtedly a more equitable, fair model.

So if I put my UB fandom aside, I'm glad SUNY does it this way because it is ultimately better for the people of the state to have this setup.  When I put my UB hat on though, fuck SUNY.  I see it both ways.

Just about every person on this board has expected since they became a UB fan that Buffalo would continue to be a middle of the road MAC school for the foreseeable future.  MAYBE, decades down the line they would find a way to move up a conference or two.  Our dream was always to just win a dang conference title or two and be one of the best programs in the conference consistently.

In the last 5 years the men have won 4 conferences titles, won two games in the NCAA tournament vs. Arizona and ASU.  Beat Syracuse in Syracuse.  Beat WVU in Morgantown.  Had a 32 win season with only 4 losses.  Essentially went pole to pole in the AP and Coaches Top 25.  Finished the season ranked #15 in the NET.

In the last 5 years the women have won 2 conference titles and have been to 3 NCAA tournaments (1 as an at-large!).  They have won 3 tournament games and made the Sweet Sixteen last year.  They played the closest game UCONN has ever played in the round of 32 in literally a decade or two.  The finished last season ranked in the top 25 and may again this year.  

Tell me with a straight face, that you ever thought those things would happen with Buffalo basketball.  Not, "Oh I knew they were capable one day", but you legitimately though, yes, this should, and will happen.  If you say you saw this coming, you're likely a liar.  

For me and I know many others, we obviously want to build on this success and make it more than a flash in the pan, but this was also our "one before I die moment".  To me, this insane run UB has been on it damn near as important to me as a Bills Super Bowl or Sabres Cup win would be.   

There is your positivitiy. It's hard to have any for the future right now, but make a good hire, and it can happen.  Let's see.  But by looking too far forward we overlook what we just experienced.  

On 3/28/2019 at 9:53 AM, SGBull said:

A lot of negativity about him over at the Alabama forum. 

To be fair, no matter who we hire there will likely be a lot of negatively here too lol.  The hardcore fanbase is rarely happy with a hire.  I recall UB fans in general being quite upset with UB promoting Oats without looking for another splash hired like Hurley...I wouldn't really trust a fan's opinion as worth much of anything haha.

15 hours ago, John said:

Here we go talking about the money issue again. What about what you are doing to the fan base and the players on the team when we feel betrayed. Oh, lets not get personal or emotional!!!Let’s be happy Oats can support his family and have his dream job. What about the dreams and fans that live and die with the team???? Without Hodgson and keeping this team somewhat together we will become like the also fans we were before Hurley/Oats.

I'm sorry, but this is a very bad, selfish, out of touch opinion.  In no world are the emotions of the fans that live and die with a sports team that exists purely for fun and entertainment EVER...EVER worth more than the actual real world earnings of an human being providing for their family and their future.  What you just said is essentially that your "fandom" is worth more than another human's actual financial life.  That's absurd, and I'd encourage you to take a step back and think about that.

A colleague of mine in higher education is extremely well connected in college hoops, especially the MAC.  He just told me that the talk among many people in the MAC and UB circles is that the leading candidate is Rob Lanier, associate head coach of Tennessee and former head coach of Siena.

29 minutes ago, John said:

That’s a good observation. you might be on to something!! From here on out let’s not believe anything a coach or someone in any high profile position says. Let’s believe they are all selling us a bill of goods based on their point of view to take advantage of their position. Better yet let’s stop following any sport and listening to people who feed us such a line of crap that the result is we think they are being honest. I do not agree with the statement from one person that this is how the business is and people do not want to understand it. Our family knows how this sports business is and it has been brewing for years an we have had enough. Instead of Oats starting off how great all is start by saying Hey if my dream job comes I am out of here but I m happy here and thanks for all your support and giving me an extension and thanks fans for your support but I am out of here if my dream job comes along. Kudos to all the faithful fans who somehow want to enjoy the game of basketball and continue to support UB or another team. 

You should watch the media scrum interview with Oats after he signed the extension.  That is EXACTLY what he said.  He is happy at UB, his goal isn't to leave and just springboard into any old P5 job.  He would tell his agent to tell schools thanks but no thanks unless it was dream job/major offer you have to listen to.  At no point did he lie or mislead anyone.  He said, "I love it here, my family loves it here, we'd like to stay and build something here.  We will do that unless a can't say no offer comes along that blows us away.  That is exactly what happened and he was up front about that.  People complaining that he lied or mislead are intentionally ignoring the times he said ON THE RECORD that he would entertain can't miss offers.

I will never blame a mid-major coach for leaving for a bigger job with bigger pay and a bigger stage.  Someone is supposed to stunt their career growth and make 3x less money for what?  To keep you, JoeFan happy?  Come on.  Now, not every move up is a GOOD move (Hello Turner Gill), but I would never fault them for it.  Should people call you out for taking a raise and new position at a new company because it will hurt the old company and your old clients' feelings?

3 minutes ago, ed said:

c'mon now, UCLA basketball, with all their issues, has still been way better over the last decade (and two) than alabama, and they still do a pretty outstanding job recruiting. the program and coaching has been a nightmare, but they're well positioned.  and they're f'in UCLA basketball.  and in westwood.  no contest.

Fair.  I will not give Indiana that kind of credit though.

This is the life of a mid-major basketball program.  Success breeds departures as coaches get hired away to bigger programs.  The only school that avoids this is Gonzaga.  

I think he'll be able to turn them into a team that is in the NCAA tournament far more often than not and can make runs into the Sweet Sixteen/Elite Eight.  I don't think he (or anyone) will turn Bama into Duke, but from a career perspective he doesn't need to.  He just needs to take them from a middle of the pack SEC program to a firmly top half of the conference SEC team and that should be enough to get him in line for a gig at a better basketball school in 3-5 years.  

35 minutes ago, everlast2504 said:

We can't. This is more of a NY SUNY system political issue then anything else. What would of done it was UB2020, but that turned into a complete dog and pony show once other schools complained that Buffalo would be better and students would want to go there. 

 

For those that don't know. UB2020 was a grand master plan to transform UB by 2020 in to an elite top of the top school, not only just for the state, but the entire country. Plans were drawn up the whole 9 yards. But when money was being requested for grants and such. UBs multi billion master plan turned in to something like 54million split between 5 schools. 

We also lost Simpson over it. 

Very good point.  SUNY has made it clear for decades that they do NOT want a situation like most other states have where there is one or two flagship HAVE institutions and the rest fight for the scraps and sit low in the rankings.  Like how Ohio State is a great but just about every other state university in Ohio is utter crap (Akron, Kent, Ohio, BGSU, Toledo are all bad schools).  SUNY is set on having their 4 university centers, Buffalo, Albany, Birmingham, Stony Brook operate on as equal footing as possible.  So no matter which area of the state you live in, you have a major university within a 2 hour drive that is no better or worse than the other three.  Then you have the colleges, which again, are designed to all be on roughly the same level.  From an equity of education perspective this is actually a really good way of designing the system to give everyone in the state a fair shot at the same quality of education.  Imagine what it's like in Ohio.  From the perspective of an alum of one of those schools who wants flashy, big time athletics or top 20 national academic rankings though, it sucks, because it would disrupt the level playing field of SUNY. 

1 hour ago, everlast2504 said:

I just thought it would be a Kentucky, Duke, UNC, UCLA, Indiana, etc. I would put 'Bama one step below them. 

Given the history the last decade or two, I'm not sure UCLA or Indiana are better jobs than Bama, and jobs like UK, Duke, Nova, Tennessee, Kansas do not open often, and let's be honest, Oats wouldn't be a candidate for them.  I think you listen to Bama in the SEC, but you pass up Vanderbilt.

Yes.  The NCAA is run by money.  Lots of it.  As much as UB has the profile of a P5 school they do not have anywhere approaching the funding or donors.  This is unlikely to change quickly.  

23 minutes ago, mikescherrer8 said:

All these lies of him building Gonzaga of the east of distilling false hope into so many people. The university was coming around to build this thing and we are back to square one. Wow.

In his defense he NEVER lied.  He said he wants to build that and would only entertain major, can't ignore them offers.  I would argue that with the massive resources of a school like Alabama..that's a can't ignore offer.  I trust that he would have said no thanks to UNLV, Nebraska, etc.  But would YOU say no to going to share an athletic department with Nick Saban?

This hits particularly hard because of the big senior class leaving.  They were the glue in the lockerroom.  Without them and now without Oats, why wouldn't Graves and Jordan explore turning their success into a spot on a P5 team?  Why wouldn't Segu and Jeenathan look elsewhere?  They can to compete at a high, national level, and it's obvious the program is going to need to seriously reload and probably be pretty bad for a year or two at least.

I guess Jordan doesn't think you need to hit freethrows in the P5?

I think Jayvon may be Oats' Shannon Evans and follow him to Bama

Can't pass up Alabama.  Much better job than Arkansas or Nebraska.  Alabama has all the resources in the world to build a national power in basketball.  Sad to see him go and see UB fall back to the pack in the MAC again, but, damn...I would have taken that job and I'm a Buffalo guy.

The faith furnace is going to be celebrating tonight.

UB Recruiting tweeted that UB is one of only 13 schools that went to a bowl game, women's tournament, and men's tournament this year.  The others?

Baylor, Mississippi State, Auburn, Kentucky, Iowa, Iowa State, Syracuse, Arizona State, UCF, Michigan, Michigan State, Oregon, 

Bad day for Mid-Majors yesterday, other than Murray State.  NM State's series of horrid decisions at the end doomed them.

Just now, 121Merrimac said:

You mean, AWESOME

Oh absolutely.  If ASU plays anything at all like this Friday, it will be a bloodbath.  However you're just as likely to get the team that beat Kanas as the team that lost to winless in the SEC Vanderbilt with Arizona State.

Both SJU and ASU are close to averaging 1 turnover per made basket.  That is atrocious.