DooleyBull06

I don't think Fagan is going anywhere.  Here's why...if he transfers he has to sit out a season, losing his junior year (unless he has the ability to redshirt???).  If he doesn't redshirt it leaves him with one season of eligibility.  Is it worth it at that point?  Or should he stay and hope to grow and fight for a role next season and beyond.  When, like UB92 said, there will be opportunity next season. I think his best option is to stay.  

As for Hawkins...love the height and size.  He has some major offers out there and we are jumping in a bit late so hopefully we can make an impression.  Lets get him. 

On 1/20/2019 at 3:44 PM, BrazenBull said:

Hard to storm the courts with attendance numbers like BGSU had yesterday. Granted, the game was moved because of the impending storm, but still.

Which made NIU's court "storm" even more embarrassing.

7 minutes ago, squire17 said:

Gonzaga has won 518 games since the 2001-2002 season. They have danced every year. It’s my opinion that they have been over-rated in many of those seasons as evidenced by their early bails in the NCAAs. Still, that is a model of consistent standing. Oats is doing a fabulous job at UB and I’m not alone in hoping that he stays and continues to bolster the program. Let’s wait a few years before we compare UB to Gonzaga.

I agree with you that Gonzaga has been over rated.  No argument there.  And I definitely agree that I hope Oats stays and continues to bolster the program.  But again...I'm comparing us to the 1990s Gonzaga build up.  Similar build up.  Similar in that we had a coach leave for "greener pastures".  Similar that we now have a young hot commodity head coach.  Lots of similarities.  What I am not saying is that we are on 2018-19 Gonzaga level. Nor am I saying that we have had the consistent period of sustained success as Gonzaga from 2000 on.

This may be our peak, who knows.  But as long as Oats is here I'm confident that in our down cycle we will still contend for MAC titles and in our up cycles we can do big time damage.

Interesting side note: when Wisconsin beat Michigan and WVU beat Kansas the students stormed the court...if someone in the MAC knocks us off on their home court be ready for a court storm.

6 minutes ago, squire17 said:

How can we compare UB to Gonzaga? It’s absurd. Look at next year. I don’t care who is coaching the team, UB is losing Perkins, Massinburg, Harris, Caruthers, and McRae: 62 points per game. Plus the defense that they give. And the leadership. Who will pick up the slack? I like Graves - he’s athletic and can shoot from three and get to the rim. I love Jordan - he’s a defensive stud and a real team player, but not a real scorer. Now we get to the current freshmen: Segu, Williams, and Fagan.

Segu is quick but short and light. Not much to go on so far from his body of work, but like his hustle and looking for the open man.

Williams is a rangy and raw talent. He’s got to be reigned in though. He’s a shoot first guy and when you’re 2 / 31 from three that’s bad. Too early to see what type of defense he’ll provide, but I haven’t been impressed.

Fagan - just have no idea.

The transfers and JCs: ?

Does anyone really think that the Bulls will dominate the MAC next year? If Oats remains to coach next year, they have a slim chance of returning to the dance. If Oats gets hired by one of the big boys for big bucks, God help his successor.

Obviously our future success depends on Oats staying.  Obviously next year will be a "down year" by comparison to this season.  But there is one big thing we must remember...if we can win 3 or 4 straight games in the MAC tourney we go dancing.  So in a way we control our destiny, always.  Next season will be about testing ourselves in the non conference, again, and building for the MAC tourney. But as long as Oats is here its all about building the program into a mid major power like a Gonzaga.  We aren't comparable to Gonzaga as they currently are but if you go back in time and review how they came up the comparison is valid. The trajectory of the rise of the programs are similar in terms of winning conferences, making the NCAAs, gaining notoriety and pulling some upsets. And if Oats takes a page from Mark Few and stays then over the course of next 10 years hopefully we can have continued top 25 success like a Gonzaga.

1 minute ago, rma said:

If there's one UB player I'd never want to play in HORSE, it's Cierra.  If it was legal for her to put it through the basket on the inbound, I'm sure she would have done it.

Any chance she plays in the WNBA?

1 minute ago, rma said:

Partially.  The DJ will likely not get the entire time out when the band returns.

The DJ should be gone lol.  It seems like a gimmick, and I think we've reached the point where we are above that.  Success has made me snooty lol 

Big time come from behind win on the road.  Glad to see Summer doing it up after the issues in fall.  Talk about a resilient team and coach.

3 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

BGSU is rolling right now. Tough stretch of games coming up. How long can we keep this streak alive?

At this point we gotta hope BGSU keeps winning so that when we play them it will be a good road win.

As for us...4 games in 11 days.  3 of those 4 on the road.  Capped by that matchup against BGSU.  Very difficult stretch that will test our endurance and depth.  Hopefully we can get some big leads so that the minutes can be spread out. Bright side is after this stretch we get like a week off.  That will be huge for rest and practice purposes.

Barring a complete collapse we are playing for a high seed. With every win I get more amazed.

Is this DJ nonsense happening bc the band isn't back yet?  Plus if its taking up seats then its an even bigger waste.  Last night the crowd was more lively than the last few games.  Even Oats acknowledged that when the students get back the place will be rocking. The attendance was the 8th largest crowd...so its safe to say the arena should be standing room only from here on out.  

Great win.  Gotta clean up the turnovers. Tough stretch of games coming up.  If there is a time we get beat its now.  So we have to be ready and bring our best.

1 minute ago, dutchcountry7 said:

No.

Gonzaga made the Elite 8 in the 90s.

And the 90s are 20 years ago now...

Their first Elite 8 appearance was 1999...their first season under Mark Few.  After all the build up of the 90s they finally broke through.  Wouldn't you agree that its similar to how we are building?

2 minutes ago, ed said:

yes, gonzaga is a conference power.  that's not what makes gonzaga special - being a conference power is nice, but not that noteworthy - that was gonzaga in the mid 90s.  what made gonzaga special starting in the late 90s was that they were a consistent, perennial threat that made a few deep runs, and that they continue to build on it. 

Exaclty! It didn't happen over night.  That is my point.  The parallel is that we are currently where Gonzaga was in the 90s.  And if Oats stays we can get to where Gonzaga was in the 2000s and eventually to where they are now.  If Oats stays I feel it can happen quicker bc the landscape is different than it was then.

3 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Gonzaga is not Gonzaga because they have made a lot of NCAA tournaments.  That is what made New Mexico State and other programs like them.

Trying to draw parallels between UB an Villanova is asinine. 

It is hard to put together a top-20 team.  Few do it.  Which is why we are loving this season! 

But it is even harder to do it again and again.  Even when coaches stick around they rarely repeat it. 

We hope there is no drop off after this year but the team is filled with seniors.  Five of the top-7 minutes played are coming from seniors.  That is a huge hole to fill.

Let's look back at some other programs that had great years and their coach returned:

2018 - Loyola-Chicago, Final Four.  Moser returned to coach. Not at an-large team this year.
2017 - St Mary's, spent whole season in the rankings peaking at #12 before losing second round of NCAA.  Bennett returns as head coach and they are snubbed.  Even worse this year.
2015 - Northern Iowa, spent the whole season in the rankings, peaked at #10, lost third round of NCAA. Jacobson returned and still coaches at UNI.  Has not returned to the NCAA tournament. 
2014 - Saint Louis spent most of the years in the top-20 following an NCAA bid.  Make the third round.  Returns to the school and is fired two years later after winning only 8 conference games in the two years since 2014.
2014 - San Diego State, spent the year in the top-20, peaking at #8.  Went to the third round of the NCAA.  Fisher returns but doesn't improve on this (and they were suppose to be the next Gonzaga after making the Sweet 16 in 2011).  Team is currently KenPom #147.
2013 - La Salle makes the Elite 8. Their coach returns. They never make the NCAA tournament again.  He was first for poor performance last year.
2012 - UNLV spends the season in the rankings, peaking at #11. Makes the NCAA tournament for the second year in a row. Coach returns the following year to build on his success.  Never makes the tournamnt again. Three years later he is pushed out due to poor performance.
2011 - Richmond makes the Elite 8.  Coach returns. Has never made the NCAA tournament again.

Sometimes you just get a collection of guys together that can play.  Sometimes the stars align for a season or two.  Being able to repeat it year after year is the hard part.

The talk of being the next Gonzaga are over blown and are only going to turn people off if there is a drop off.

 

 

Lets get over the comparison to Nova.  Again I wasn't comparing us to them.  Was simple saying we can break through as a non blue blood.

I 100% agree with you that there will be a drop off next season and that it will be hard to be a top 20 team annually.  However it is very possible for us to be thee perennial MAC power.  The team that runs the conference and gets the auto bid every year.  Isn't that like Gonzaga?  I think that's the heart of the comparison.  Mainly because when Gonzaga was on the come up they weren't ranked but they were still winning league titles and getting to the big dance.  And having some upsets while in it.  Then they became perennially ranked.  Took time.  I think that's why the comparison is drawn. And in the end it isn't about comparing but emulating and going further.  

1 minute ago, dutchcountry7 said:

 

Yes, they were.  If they weren't they were the nearest thing to one. They had more in common with Syracuse and UConn prior to 2016 than they did with the Buffalo of today.

 

With 1 title prior to 2016 you honestly think they were a blue blood?  UConn had 4 titles before Nova got their 2nd.  I would say prior to 2016 Nova was comparable to Cuse and UConn was ahead of them both.

And yes currently we have nothing in common with Nova, agreed.  I admit my comparison was a bit of a stretch. 

13 minutes ago, UB92 said:

Just to put this to bed:  Villanova is a blue blood. 

Evidence (since 1982)

Received a #1 seed in NCAA tournament:  2018, 2017, 2015, 2006.
Received a #2 seed in NCAA tournament:  2016, 2014, 2010
Received a #3 seed in NCAA tournament:  2009, 1996, 1995, 1983, 1982
 

Villanova's first Final Four was in 1939.  Their last was last year.

Maybe Villanova's blood isn't as blue as Kentucky or Duke or North Carolina, but they are certainly in the picture.

 

I agree 100%.  They are a blue blood now.  Wasn't the case before 2016. Before the recent title runs Wright had a reputation of never being able to win the big game. Now he runs a model program for those coaches who don't take the one and done approach.

4 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

They aren't exactly good comparisons.  Spokane is a good sized city, larger than Syracuse, and there is no competition for other sports in the city.  If you want to watch sports you only have one option in the city.  Washington State is over two hours away and Eastern Washington is up the road but they play in a weak conference.

Gonzaga has landed five star recruits. 

Austin Daye was a five star recruit and he played for them over ten years ago.  https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2007/austin-daye-40580

Zach Collins was a five star recruit who they landed just two years ago.. https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2016/zach-collins-480

And they get four star recruits every year.  They are always on the cusp of getting five star recruits.

Villanova is a big money program in a major conference.  The comparison to Nova seems out of left field to me.  If DePaul started making runs to the Final Four would people really consider them a Cinderella who made it against the odds?  And Villanova has never been as bad as DePaul.

 

 

I'm not trying to start a war here but allow me to defend myself.  The Gonzaga comparison is the best comparison hands down.  We are all making it and writers across the country are too.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2815904-could-buffalo-become-the-next-gonzaga-of-mens-college-basketball

As for referencing Gonzaga's recruiting.  Different sites have different rankings.  One might say 4 star the other 5.  So its like splitting hairs. Case in point both Collins and Daye were rated 4 stars according to 247 Sports.  And yes they get 4 and 5 stars now but that took time to build up to that level.  

https://247sports.com/player/zach-collins-58868/

https://247sports.com/player/zach-collins-58868/

As for Nova, I was speaking solely about how they aren't considered a blue blood program despite winning two titles in the last three years.  It took time for Wright to break through and finally win it all.  And even now some still don't put them on the level of a Duke or Kentucky.  Them winning isn't a Cinderella story but it wasn't common like Duke or Kentucky. 

So if we can become a perennial mid major power like Gonzaga then break through and win a title as a non blue blood that would be Nova like.  Is it a out of left field comparison, yes.  I'll admit that.  But it isn't far off. I know they are in a power conference and have resources and all that stuff that is irrelevant on the court but they are that next tier to climb to once we establish ourselves as a perennial mid major power.

He and Perkins bring a nastiness off the bench that I love. 

But yea he is the blue collar mvp so far. He always brings the fire and intensity that spark the team. And his defense is amazing. No fear in him on both ends. I said it before every time he dunks I feel he is either gonna break the rim or hurt himself lol. 6th man of the year so far.

Also Harris is starting to play like a potential conference player of the year.

His growth from year 1 to year 2 has been great. You could see it coming late last February. He’s no doubt going to be one of the leaders on the team as he finishes his career. He’s got great all around game potential. 

And if you are getting impatient with Segu and Williams, look at Graves. His growth seemingly overnight is what we can hope and expect for the two freshmen. These kids aren’t one and doners, so growth and development is the name of the game.

I agree this will heat up in March. And the further we advance the hotter his name becomes. As if it isn’t hot now. His stock will not be higher than it will be come March. And next year we anticipate a drop off bc how can we replace these 5 seniors. So Oats will have options. The question is does he want a middle of the pack P5 job or does he want to keep building the Gonzaga of the east.

I think when administration hired Hurley that was the sign that said we intend to make noise with the basketball program. Now they have to keep following up. And by that they have to make Oats the highest paid MAC coach. That’s the first thing that needs to be done. Then we have to do everything in our power to make UB thee destination of all MAC schools. And that means staying current with facilities and all those things that were listed in the chain of command article. 

Unlike football mid majors can win titles in basketball. Butler got to two titles games, Layola Chicago and Gonzaga made the final four. It can be done. So does it make sense to jump to let’s say Pitt, like Oats might have last year. Just look at Shaka Smart...hasn’t duplicated his success from VCU since he’s been at Texas. And we all know P5 schools lose patience quickly.

We keep growing and building we can do what Gonzaga and Villanova (nova not a blue blood program until recently) have done. And they really don’t even recruit 5 star talent. It’s only now that Wright is landing a few. And I don’t think Mark Few has ever landed one. 

Hope he stays. We’ll see. These are just a few thoughts to contribute to the topic. 

1 hour ago, Jeseph said:

I, for one, did not have BGSU going 4-0.

They have two solid players too, Turner and Wiggins.  Wiggins is a beast on the boards.  He is averaging a double double at 13 ppg and 12rpg.  Should be a difficult road matchup when the time comes. 

57 minutes ago, BullsFan14 said:

Nope. Students start the 28th

I think the bar was set last week when we drew large crowds without the students.  This is the 16th ranked team in the nation, we should now expect a sellout every home game.  A Friday night game should draw the community in and once the students get back AA should be loud af!

7 minutes ago, mikescherrer8 said:

THANK YOU. There are a select few on these forums who keep preaching "we have not seen a complete game from UB yet". Especially after we won by 30 against Toledo and won by 24 against Miami(OH). It's ridiculous and the spoiled aspect is starting show. 

We as fans need to remember what we have right now and to evaluate things they're saying. 

To your guys point...we don't want to be peaking right now.  Dare I even say that a loss somewhere in the regular season might be a good thing? I think what has been great about this team is that we can win any style game and get winning contributions from any player on the roster.  Last night is evidence. Keep building and growing and the wins will continue to mount. If the freshman continue to develop into their roles we are legitimately 9 players deep.  That kinda depth is going to be needed to get us to through Feb. 1st.  

10 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

Gotta win some ugly ones in the MAC but we have got to fix our defense.

Could not agree more.  Teams that can't run with us are going to try to make it ugly.  Plus we all know how great MAC refs are.  And just imagine when we take on Kent St.  We all know they like to play bully ball.  So it wasn't pretty, def not our best game and effort but it was a conference win on the road.  And yes our defense wasn't spectacular but in all we made enough plays to win.  Our schedule gets jammed packed for the next few weeks so our health and depth will be tested.

2 positives:  1) Free throw shooting was the difference in this game.  2) The freshman were given clutch minutes and they played well in them.  Love to see Williams attacking the rim without hesitation.  When he reacts you can see the talent.

Any national exposure is good exposure.  Plus games on CBSSN feature that lovely music you normally only hear in March.  Gets me exciting for what's to come every time.