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Dooley - agree with you that they have to allow fewer PPG. Agree with you that it's about winning, however the best way to do that is. I do think this squad is better equipped to play at a higher pace than the last group. When I said "people would rather see shootouts", that's in reference to the significant portion of the fanbase that had enough of the plodding, careful Reggie-ball. For point of comparison, the 2018-19 Bulls averaged 46% shooting and held opponents to 42%. Outrebounded teams 40-37. 16.6 assists per game and 12 turnovers. Allowed 70.8 PPG. This year's team so far is averaging 46% shooting and holding opponents to 43%. Outrebounding opponents 38-36. Averaging 15.6 assists and 14.8 turnovers. Allowing, as you said, 77.6 PPG. Both of these teams rank nationwide offensively in field goal attempts and near the bottom in number of field goal attempts allowed - I think that's a matter of the style they play. I think the slightly higher turnover number this year is a result of a new group of guys who haven't played together yet as long as that legendary team did. The 18-19 team didn't allow as many foul shots as this one does - I think this team plays hard, and it's a high risk/reward - active on defense, but giving up a lot of fouls. What this tells me is they need to get better at some little things - foul shooting, positioning so as to not foul - but maybe statistically they're not as far off as we think. How do they shave off 7 points per game defensively - fewer trips to the foul line? 2018-19 Buffalo Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com 2022-23 Buffalo Bulls Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

I disagree with the "no defense" comment. I think the defensive workrate and intensity is miles ahead of last year. I will agree with those who say, the end product isn't consistent. Just giving up fewer points, I agree that would be an ideal thing too. Rebounds and turnovers were about even last night. In the BG game, they held them to 35% shooting. CMU shot 44% the game before, and UB beat them on the boards 51-38. They held Northern to 38% shooting and outrebounded them 50-28. They held Ohio to 37% shooting and had 10 steals. I do think that when this team clamps down the defense, that's the key aspect to when they go on a run and take over a game. The guards are active on the perimeter, it's a matter of consistently boxing out. I thought last night the defense was in the right position a lot but Toledo just hit a lot of contested shots. Some of the most frustrating things to watch in basketball are the ticky-tack fouls where the guy barely touched the shooter, but technically the call is right. And the guys that drive to the net and fling themselves in the general direction of the hoop and get a call. I think a lot of fouls happen because the defender/defense was late reacting to what was happening and thus was out of position. I think Isaac Jack has gotten a lot better defensively this season, he was fouling guys because of that early and now he's fighting more for rebounds and getting in better spots. People would rather see shootouts than defensive slugfests. More running the floor than half-court offenses at a walking pace. I think that goes both ways - it means more turnovers, more times you're caught out of shape in transition. If you're going to fire more early shots, that means you're not going to have guys set underneath for rebounds. I've also been impressed that this group has been able to switch between man defense and a zone at times, depending on the opponent and situation, and used that effectively.

It kills me a little to think, though, if the band and students were back, if this place was an absolute snake pit tonight, could that have rattled Toledo? Enough to make the difference down the stretch? Come on, athletic department, get to work. You too True Blue, where the heck have you been?

Last year's team really frustrated me, because they reached the MAC final the year before and we saw what they were capable of. And I felt like several guys weren't playing hard enough. We saw their ceiling and you couldn't get more than that out of them. This year, the situation is different, there's so much room for potential and growth and I'm heartened to see guys playing their hardest. Zid had a play where he ran a Toledo guy down the court and forced it out of bounds. Curtis drew two charges in the first half. That's the kind of effort I want to cheer for. There are games I'll be mad about (if they lost to a team like Northern like this, for instance) - today isn't one of them.

UB was good tonight, but Toledo was better. Toledo had to be, to win this one. UB matched them pretty well statistically. Toledo had this aggravating habit of hitting contested shots - you could hear the groans from the crowd. The defense did their job, Toledo did theirs. Toledo is a good team. The Bulls moved the ball around well but paid for it when they made a mistake, as you do when you play a quality opponent. I have zero problems with the level of effort the Bulls brought tonight. Whitesell has been showing he'll call a timeout right away when something doesn't look right, he's not waiting for them to take another possession or two to figure it out. Curtis - they did their homework, they were not giving him open looks outside. Foster - can't hit from outside but drives to the net well. Hardnett - it took years but he developed the combination of toughness and touch to be a really effective inside player at this level. Did well at the line. Jack - along with Hardnett, moves well inside and the guards are finding them in traffic. Zid - he's confident. And that works both ways. Confident in that he'll score points, confident in that he'll use all five fouls. Leaves it all out there. Adams - hit more shots today I wish UB marketed the heck out of this game - a Friday night game, national TV, quality opponent, Sabres weren't playing. What more do you want. Toledo - in my younger days we would've been riding Kowalczyk all game. "The pressure is on, Todd, you haven't won anything and your pink slip is already filled out, they just need to sign and date it." They are definitely one of the top 3 teams in the MAC. They rarely lost their cool tonight. They had to be at their best to see this one out. This was the first game of the season that my voice got hoarse from yelling. I had fun tonight - I hope you did too.

I don't have to imagine it - I was there. Sea of Blue I and II. It blew away any crowds during the top-25 season.

Attendance lately - has athletics made much of an effort to market these games? Is it the coach's job to coach, or is he also responsible for whether the fans feel like coming or not? There is ZERO collegiate atmosphere there right now besides the cheerleaders. No band, no students, at least the basketball is fun to watch. I would rather he concentrate on coaching up the players and delegate the marketing to others. I agree, winning sells. So the fanbase is so spoiled now that they won't show up for anything short of a top 25 team? I think what happened here - the team got good, the coach moved on to a bigger opportunity - was totally what was expected to happen at this level. It happens everywhere, every year. I've been incredibly disappointed by the attendance this season. I'll give people a pass to some degree for the games against D3 opponents. But they're missing a team that's a lot easier to watch than last year's, with Mballa's "I don't care" body language, and seniors with clear limitations who weren't going to get better (and who shot the ball horribly). Is the public's attention so tied into the Bills and Sabres right now that even for alums, the Bulls don't register? I'm curious, how many people who have already made up their mind against Whitesell (in many cases, before he coached a game as head coach) are willing to change their mind? I'm not saying it's time yet, but if it was at some point. How many would rather stick with their opinion than think they were wrong? I know this, because I thought this way about many Bills coaches over the years. There are a lot of people who are mighty quiet when the Bulls have a good game, or even a good stretch in a game, but sure enough they're ready and waiting to chime in after a bad game or bad run within a game. Waiting in the wings. A win doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme, but a loss (or a 10 point swing) is proof of a strategic failure by the school. (I talked to someone yesterday who said something like this). They've made up their mind, so no amount of good news counts, but anything bad is definite proof. Again, I know this mindset because I've been that person. Oh I believe you do care, if you're upset about the state of things. You're angry because you care. Are there fans who are actually afraid that the team might do well, in which case the coach they don't like would stay (or they'd have to change their tune?)

Also - this whole thing about how they're doing on the road compared to at home - I thought about the strength of schedule. Look at who they've played at home versus who they've played on the road/neutral sites. It's not a perfect comparison, but they had Canisius, Daemen, Fisher, and Canton at home. WVU, UConn, Michigan State on the road. Those wins over Colgate, Bona, Mason, and Ohio were solid. I keep being mindful of the big picture: the team looks much better now than in early November, and the point of this is to see progress leading up to the MAC tournament. I don't care about KenPom or RPI ratings. UB is in a one-bid conference, all that matters in the end is league play and what you do in March (and put the Little Three teams to the sword). Get better and play your best then.

What an outstanding performance tonight by the Bulls, start to finish, front to back. Every phase. Usually basketball games ebb and flow, each team takes turns going on a run...except tonight UB went on a run mid first half and never looked back. Defense, offense, they were focused on the task and sharp in execution. 30 assists! Thirty! 56% shooting, held BG to 35%. BG had twice as many foul shots, rebounds were the same...UB made their shots. Credit to everyone for a great response tonight after the last two on the road. Curtis - he can shoot from anywhere. He's getting deadly from three; he can drive to the net; he's working on those CJ or Lamonte-like floaters. Zid - his best game so far? Plays with so much purpose and confidence - sometimes too much, but just right today. Looks to be healthy and rolling. Foster - as time goes on we're seeing him try more and more ambitious passes. When they work they're really nice. Jonnivius - his best game so far? He has REALLY picked up his intensity and workrate, he fights a lot harder for the ball now. You could tell how pumped he was too by his reactions during the game and after. Great to see him taking positive steps. Jack - compare to where he was 2 months ago. His defense is a lot better, and his movement inside to the basket for passes is getting really good. Teams are going to start watching that on film, I'm curious to see if they back off to guard that, what other things that opens up for the Bulls offense. Kanye and Kidtrell - it's great to see guys coming off the bench and playing meaningful minutes like this, they have good depth at guard Adams - got in some early foul trouble, which limited his minutes. Caesar - I don't know what's up but I'm not going to speculate, nor am I interested in speculation. BG - it was just not their day. We expected a close game since they had the same record. They matched the Bulls on rebounds but that wasn't enough. I thought early that with Hardnett out, BG would try to get inside and get the big guys into foul trouble, which would limit UB's options. UB is getting better at boxing out and battling under there, tipping the ball, keeping it alive. Agee looked like he was so mad he was going to do something worthy of a technical at some point. For a guy averaging 11 points a game, they gave him a hard time. The game was topped off by a sour old BG fan behind us whining about his own team, UB, everything afterwards. The next steps for this team are to play better on the road, but first, how they match up against Toledo, one of the best in the conference. Tonight the three's were dropping and they were moving it around at will. We saw on the road that they have to figure out what to do when the outside shots aren't dropping, or the big guys get in foul trouble, or they have to play a different way because the opponent is shutting something down. All part of the progress process. Great job tonight Bulls, keep it up. I'm trying my best to just ignore the people who get down after the first ten minutes or have already made their mind up about everything. This team keeps being fun to watch and I really want to see what they can do with a fired up crowd backing them up.

Reggie-ball was the old style, work it around till you found THE shot you wanted. When Hurley came in, and Oates and Whitesell have kept this going, it's the modern idea of: up-tempo, hit them in transition, so you take way more shots than the other team, even if you miss a lot of them, statistically it works out better. And either go for layups (take turns driving to the net) or take 3's. It makes for a lot of ugly basketball at times; it absolutely BURIES opponents when you're shooting well; it's hard to set up rebounders underneath sometimes; when it works it's fast and entertaining. I think they are playing the way the style dictates. But yeah, I hear you, the team has been built around this style for years. I'm not saying go back to what it was before (this year's team plays that higher tempo a LOT better than the past couple years did). I will say that I love a good 2 point jump shot, beat that guy on the perimeter and instead of driving all the way, drain that 2. Then they have to guard you everywhere on the court. Driving to the net and getting fouled works too...provided you're hitting your foul shots. Foster seems best at going to the net, he hasn't been consistent from outside. Powell is all over the place with his intensity, in the end he has points and steals but there's an element of brute force about his game. I feel like Curtis is the one that can hit from anywhere - three's, jumpers, layups, floaters (he doesn't have the height for a classic Yassin Idbihi hook shot though 🙂 ). Last night, I think the outside shooting wasn't working, and it made them have to rely on driving to the net. Since they were drawing lots of fouls (THREE guys on the Deadhawks fouled out), this would've worked if they could've made their foul shots.

I agree with you that this is going to be up and down, because of the nature of the team right now. I hope people realize how much better this team looks now than it did 2 months ago. And how much some players have progressed. Curtis didn't play much last year, look at him now, in just his sophomore season. Look at Isaac Jack, starting to become a regular piece of the equation, how much he's come along in just a couple months. "play more team ball" - the Bulls are 3rd in the MAC right now with 14.5 assists per game. Assist-to-turnover ratio isn't as good...but those tell me that they're trying to work it around, sometimes they don't do it well. I feel like as they get better as a team, those turnovers may come down. And turnovers will be more of a problem for teams like UB that, since Hurley, want to run the floor at a high tempo (as they say in football, "live by the blitz, die by the blitz."). I totally agree that they can get better at this, but in terms of assists they're actually one of the best in the conference right now. www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/conferences/statistics/team/_/id/14/stat/assists/sort/avgAssists I feel like yesterday they were trying to play team ball and pass it around, but Miami was doing a good job of shutting that down. Curtis wasn't getting good looks outside. Down the stretch, 'Foster taking it to the net' was the thing that was working best (in this game).

Road games are tough. And when you win them, it usually isn't pretty. Miami did their homework, they didn't give UB good looks from outside and they matched the Bulls for intensity on rebounds. In the end, a close game that went back and forth was finally opened up by 4 straight turnovers by UB down the stretch. This team looked good at the free throw line earlier in the year but it's been a problem the last couple games. Today that caught up with them. I liked the competitiveness today, I liked how some other guys stepped up. Curtis- not his best game today. Miami kept him from hitting from outside, and he is the team's best outside shooter. Foster - his best game as a Bull so far? His best quality is his quick first step to the net and kept beating Miami with it. Zid - he's great at stealing the ball. He looked like he was back up to speed tonight. Played hard to the end. Miami - Lahry is a good all around guard. That big guy 45 was a handful inside. They kept finding a way to hit threes even when they were contested. Miami had some good movement inside to the basket, they got the Bulls spread out on the perimeter and drove inside where someone had no option but to foul. We put down our own attendances but that sure looked like a sparse crowd there. Lessons learned, MAC road game experience, work in progress. I like the fight but they probably know that they need to clean up some things to get the win on a night like this. This UB team is one that shouldn't overlook anyone, nor should any opponent do likewise.

Still a work in progress - but progress is definitely evident.

The Bulls controlled this one from start to finish. Unlike the last one, they came out of the gates fast with a couple three's and other than a point in the second half where NIU pulled to within 10, that's as close as they were going to get. The passing was outstanding today! Except for a few that were overly ambitious. NIU tried a zone and UB moved it around fast enough and hit outside shots, it blew it apart. That one sequence near the end of the first half, it moved quick between 3 or 4 players and got Jack cutting underneath for a layup, that was one of the prettiest setups we've seen in a while. Rebounding - the Bulls destroyed them 50-28 on the boards. 19 offensive rebounds. The 3's were dropping today, that helped a lot. The only thing was the foul shooting was poor, for a team that was doing that well earlier in the season. 15 turnovers on some plays they got too fancy or were getting sloppy when they were up 15+. The activity and intensity was there on defense again. 2-0 start in MAC play - we'll see what they can do with the next challenge, which is to show they can win on the road. Curtis - I keep reminding myself he's just a sophomore. He's been that dead-eye outside shooter that this team has been missing for a couple years. But he's good at rebounding too - developing into an all-around player. Jack - I've noticed that he's getting minutes ahead of Jo Smith. His offensive movement is great, he's getting smarter under the basket on rebounds and is reacting quicker, which means he isn't fouling as much. Possibly his best game so far. Adams - shot better today than on Tuesday. He's very active at keeping the ball alive for rebounds. Foster - I thought he had a strong game, other than that he's in a funk at the line. He's tougher underneath the basket for rebounds than his stature would suggest. Zid - this was a good game to get him back in the swing of things. He's forceful - the kind of player who will take as many charges as he draws. And yet has a creative eye for passes. He scores in spurts. Hardnett - another solid game, building one on another. Almost another double-double. He has so much more confidence with the ball than he used to. Jo Smith - he's been a little fumbly with the ball, I think he's pushing to play tougher and more assertive. Blocker - he's playing a lot of minutes off the bench, which shows the depth this team has right now. Only hit one of his shots but he's like the rest, he has a lot of potential. NIU - for the fact that I thought they battled well underneath and got more put-backs than I liked...UB destroyed them on rebounds. They got behind and didn't have the ability to shut UB down and grind back into it. My brother noted that NIU tended to drive to the left side of the basket, then try to kick it back the other way. I wonder if that's something they saw on tape that UB was vulnerable to, and if that's something other teams will try. I have noticed that for some veteran-heavy teams, if there's a bad stretch the coach will let it ride and let the players figure it out. I feel like Whitesell has been doing the opposite this season - when he sees something wrong, or maybe 2 bad possessions, he's calling timeout or pulling that person off to correct them. This team is a lot better than they were 2 months ago. They really brought their game this week and there's just so much potential there, individually and collectively. I hope more of you get to the arena because they are fun to watch.

That goes both ways - I dropped off this forum for chunks of time because of the negativity.

Clodney - fair points. Given the state of the roster going in, I had zero expectations to compete against those top teams. I liked how they hung within 10 of Michigan St and WVU for a good deal of the game. UConn was been top 5 in the country. Even the UB teams that went to the tournament, I would expect they could compete at those places but I wouldn't expect a win. The team looks a lot better at this point in early January than they did two months ago. I'd like those Howard and Drake games back; but I feel like those games over Colgate, George Mason, Bona, and Ohio were solid wins. Glass half full.

Can I ask a better question? Are we ever going to see Sy Chatman play?

I've tried to just avoid acknowledging it. I put some of the usual people on my ignore list. Though when I look at these without logging in, I see some people post when things aren't going well, and nothing when things are good. I think there are some that made up their mind already and nothing is going to change that. Whatever, it's not taking anything away from me having fun this season so far. (I'm trying to put this in a way that's not starting crap, and to be fair to people who have strong opinions BECAUSE they care. I get that, I became a miserable Bills fan years ago before I just let it all go.) As for season ticket renewals - I think any program that reaches a pinnacle, one that it's been striving towards for a long time, wonders, "okay, what now?" (The answer is, "do it again, keep pushing to win and go as far as you can.") I think for a lot of fans, what comes next pales in excitement to that and it's harder to get motivated. I would imagine that places at our level like Akron, Kent, Ohio have come up against a similar problem. People get bored or complacent, it ebbs and flows. The wild card game comeback vs Houston in 1993 didn't sell out. 20 years later, fans would've done gross things for a playoff game. Maybe I'm the wrong person to ask, my dad started taking me to UB games as a kid in the 1980's, UB has been part of our life my whole life. I'm not going or not going based on whether the team is good, but for a lot of people they are. But I'll finish with this: this team is a breath of fresh air after the stifling stagnation of the previous group. They reached their zenith with that MAC run to the final in 2020-2021. These guys are fun to watch and they play really hard. They don't have recognizable names (yet) but they're worth checking out. Whether or not you're bummed that they don't go to the NCAA's every year, whether or not you like the coach, that was a fun game on Tuesday and it's always satisfying to beat Ohio.

UBinMD - absolutely. Buffalo News pointed out that Hardnett made both buckets at the end, off assists from Foster. Harnett earned that blue hard had last night, double double. I wonder whether he was told to, or if he figured out himself, that "you're the returning upperclassman, YOU have to be the one to set the tone and the level of intensity for others to follow." Great stuff.

I joked with a couple people around me, "was there a gas leak in the locker room?" Sometimes I shake my head because basketball is a game of runs. How many times have these games come down to the last 3 minutes/6 possessions? Last night did. All game I kept thinking, this won't be easy and it'll be close at the end. I'm not on the bench so I don't know this - but I wonder if, down the stretch, the coaches wanted them to protect the ball and don't give it back right away off a fast break turnover. And to someone else - the only thing that went cold at the end was their foul shooting. Two big buckets in the last couple minutes gave them a 5-6 point cushion and left Ohio chasing it. Do better at the free throw line and they win this going away. But I'm trying to realize that this was a tough game and wasn't always going to look pretty. There are a lot of guys on this team who are not the finished article yet - or the complete package - but so far they're finding a way to combine those things into something like a team. Which coming into this season was a serious concern.

You have to like this game and this result. Starting MAC play against Ohio was a tough one but they really stepped up tonight. When they were focused and intense they were winning. Make no mistake, this was a physical MAC conference game and after a slow start, UB came to play. When they clamped down on defense they opened up some leads. Like it often does, this one came down to the last half dozen possessions for each and UB did better with them. Make more of their foul shots (which this group tends to be better than they were tonight) and they're winning this no problem. I don't know if they can play like this every game - but I hope this answered some questions for some people. They did a much better job tonight at boxing out, being tough on the boards, and this group fights like hell on defense (their steals stats). Foster - he's confident going to the net. He got some real tough rebounds first half. He hasn't been good from outside. And I think he was a bit rattled at the end at the line. Don't overlook 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals. Jack - getting more time as his defense improves. He moves well off the ball, cutting through traffic to the net. Most teams don't let them do that, but Ohio let them get that space a few times early. Hardnett - remember when we had this guy transferring in from Cincinnati, and we figured if he's coming from there he must be good? It took a while. But this is a sharper, stronger, more confident version of the Laquell we've seen the past couple years. He battled hard on both ends tonight, finished underneath, and made one from three. He's playing like a senior setting the example for the rest. Curtis - he can hit shots from all directions and every way. He's getting better at defense and rebounding (9 boards tonight). The development of this guy, in just his sophomore year (after not getting a ton of minutes last year) is pretty impressive. Adams - hit some big three's and only traveled once. 4 for 15 but three of those were big three's. Caesar - energy off the bench but missed his shots Mading - some good minutes off the bench first half and hit his free throws Blocker - stepping up as some guys are hurt Jo Smith - playing tougher out there. He has to, to get minutes. Had a falling-away layup first half that seemed like he didn't need to fall for. Ohio - they're tough, physical, they go really hard to the net if you're not paying attention. Hit some open three's till the UB defense figured that out and didn't give them many of those looks anymore. Both teams shot about the same, both teams played tough defense, they made you work for every bucket. This team looks a lot better than they did in early November (as they should). They're fun to watch, they play so hard on defense. I hope more UB fans make the time to see this team. This was a really good win tonight. They're a work in progress but there is definite progress to be seen. Crowd - I know it's a rainy Tuesday but come on, this was a good matchup and we should be a better fanbase than one that only shows up if they're already good. We desperately need more bodies and more noise. The athletic department has to figure out how to market to the commuter kids to get some life in that end zone. This team is worth your time.

From what I read in the past - Niagara didn't want to play anymore. My brother counts it as a "forfeit" by them every year now 🙂 I agree that it should be possible to play the other SUNY D-1 teams (Albany, Stony Brook, Binghamton). And yeah, as someone mentioned, try to play where the school has a lot of alums. NYC area. And as I've suggested over the years - football and/or basketball should try to play a game every year down in Florida. The school can set up a tailgate and make a big deal for Buffalo people who have moved down there. As for last night - D3 opponent, D3 crowd (I was a kid at those games). But this team needs games, all these players need reps. They're not the finished product yet but I do feel like they're as ready as they're going to be for MAC play. They look a lot better than they did a month and a half ago. Caesar and Jack will get more playing time once they get better on defense. Both have good moves on offense, which will get them minutes off the bench. But they're freshmen - I don't expect to see the finished article yet. It makes Curtis Jones, in the first semester of his sophomore year, look like he's pretty far along. I'm looking forward to the MAC games and the increased intensity out there. I'm interested to see how the team handles that, and grows with it.

In other news - UConn is ranked #2 in the country right now. Losing by 20 on the road to them doesn't seem so bad. I like that comment about testing yourself to find out what you need to work on.

I'm fine with performances like this. The team is being challenged and it's good experience. Shooting percentage was good. As others said, they gave up too many free throws, but for this team that's often a matter of playing very aggressive. Jack has a ton of potential and when he gets to next year, it's all going to start coming together consistently.

I don't like all the non-D1 games on the schedule either. But this team needs games. So it's better than nothing. Teams with anything to lose won't come here. It's a bummer as a fan. I don't have any comments about this one other than - no one got hurt, they got some more game experience as a group, especially the rest of the bench, and that these look a little sloppy at times because the game intensity and focus isn't naturally as high.