Future of the Bulls

[DooleyBull06]

Go…

[enrique14150]

Future/overall thoughts on this season:

They were okay.  Not bad, but when they played the top teams, clearly a level behind.  We have grown to expect more.  This season was always going to be a challenge, with so much of the roster turning over from last year.  What I liked about this team was their effort was rarely lacking.  This was a hungry, motivated group, albeit one that just wasn't good enough in the end.  Props to the coaches and players for visibly improving from November to the start of MAC play; however, I feel like the team kinda plateaued over the course of the league games.  The top teams were just more talented, played with fewer mistakes, and no amount of scheming was going to get around that.  Like today - Akron was a more talented team.  Freeman is a better inside player than Hardnett or Smith. Castenedas is a better guard than Jones or Powell.

My favorite parts: like I said, the fact that (as opposed to some times with the previous group), these guys fought hard.  Beating Bona and Canisius by double digits.  Lighting up the scoreboard at Ball State in front of a couple hundred people (I guess there were more entertaining things to do in downtown Muncie on a weeknight - "come see our multiple laundromats!").  They could put up a lot of points sometimes, they could really move the ball around creatively at times.  They could clamp down on defense...sometimes.

My least favorite parts: How comprehensively they were beaten most times by the top 4 teams.  There were clear divides in the MAC this season.  The top four-five plus either Ohio or Ball State; then the .500 teams UB and Northern; then a lot of crap.  UB was a level better than the teams below them, but a level worse than the ones above.  I have nothing wrong with some convoluted games early on, they were part of the process of them becoming a team.

The transfer rules allowed them to quickly fill in the gaping holes left in the roster after last year.  But I wonder what the ceiling is for some of these guys.  In the long run, would it have been better to get a lot of freshmen this year, take our lumps, but have a greater potential 2 years ahead?  That's assuming they turned down freshmen and took transfers instead, which I do not know.

Lots of potential:
Isaac Jack - he improved a lot over the year.  He showed some good inside moves early, but it was his defense that got a lot better by the end of the season.  To the point that he was their best defender against Mirambeaux on Miami.
Curtis Jones - he was on fire by holiday time, but cooled off as league play wore on.  I don't know why.  I do think, since he's only a sophomore, he can get significantly better from here and truly be the go-to guy.  With Hardnett gone, he has to take the lead and make this his team.
Blocker - he grew in confidence with the ball.  He's primed to start playing some serious minutes.

Kinda/not sure:
Caesar - he might be something, we don't know yet.  He has to get better at defense.
Jonnivius - he's working hard but he needs to put on some pounds, till then he's not effective enough on defense.

I think they are what they are:
Adams
Powell

I would rather say "they need to get some players who are just better than who they have" than "they need this or that certain position." Just an overall upgrade in the talent base.  I think they went as far as they could this year with who they had.  Like Foster was okay, and they missed him when he wasn't there, but against the good teams you could tell he wasn't as good as his opponent.  To me it's more of a recruiting challenge than a coaching thing.

I have remained positive all year because I like going to games, rooting for the team, and these guys were fun to root for.  I don't feel like they under- or over-achieved in the end, they were right where they were.  (Someone said a couple months ago they were a .500 team - at the time I thought they still had the potential to be better, but in the end, they were right).  I had fun and I hope you did too.

Edited March 10, 2023 by enrique14150

[DooleyBull06]

Most of my criticism falls on the head coach. If you take away two wins against high school teams we were 13-17. Unacceptable. Lots of our loses were blowouts. In his tenure he cannot beat the top MAC schools. Since our title game appearance, with Oats holdovers, we have regressed as a program. My fear is that we will retain Whitesell and the program will continue to plummet. First losing season in 10 years!

He shows me nothing in terms of player development. Lots of his high school recruits don’t even see the court (Williamson, Caesar, Mading). Blocker will be a junior, is he ever gonna develop? He misses with transfers. That’s a long list. And players seem to regress under him. Graves is an example. The offense is basically iso ball. There doesn’t seem to be any plan of attack other than go fast and faster regardless of how reckless you are. 

I have no confidence in this coach. Many have made the argument that this team is young and just needs to gel. Well our best ball came early in the season and we regressed as conference play rolled on. Ask yourselves why didn’t we gel? What were the reasons? What gives you confidence that you can project growth in the future?

If Whitesell couldn’t win with Segu, Williams and Graves then he isn’t gonna win with this bunch. Yes in the end we finished roughly where we all expected. But this team didn’t pass the eye test. It’s about the how and why. As per usual, in his tenure I’m left saying we could’ve been and should’ve been better. 

As for next year, we haven’t heard a peep all season about recruiting. Nothing. That’s a concern. Yea we are returning most of the roster but that doesn’t give me much hope. We don’t have lengthy wings, no shooters and we don’t have a true PG. The longer we stay with Whitesell the further the Bulls brand name fades. And given we play in the MAC East we are looking at being the 5th best team in the conference at best. Behind Akron, Kent, Ohio and Toledo. Is 5th what everyone is happy with going forward? 

Whitesell isn’t the guy that’s going to get the most out of any roster. Give me someone who has P5 ambition and vision. 

[UB Horns Up]

I am not surprised by the results tonight and the sad thing is I don’t think UB Bulls basketball has hit rock bottom yet but it’s coming because we are stuck with these players. I highly doubt any of these selfish basketball players that play as individuals instead of as a team are going to be desirable in a transfer portal and obviously Jim Whitesell is here at least two more years because of the mistake UB made of thinking Jim Whitesell would be desirable in the open market if he won at 62 years old? UB athletics bid against themselves for Jim Whitesell? Think about that you don’t need to see the scary movie Scream VI in 3D the scary movie is watching UB Bulls basketball every night knowing we have 2 more years of this crap before UB athletics can buy there way out of the rest of Jim Whitesell’s contract mistake the UB athletics department made thank you Mark Alnutt in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited March 10, 2023 by UB Horns Up

[UB92]

I think both of these takes from @enrique14150and @DooleyBull06 are interesting and provide two viewpoints.  One more focused on the players and the other more focused on the coaching.   Thanks for sharing your opinions on this.

 

[DooleyBull06]

2 minutes ago, UB92 said:

I think both of these takes from @enrique14150and @DooleyBull06 are interesting and provide two viewpoints.  One more focused on the players and the other more focused on the coaching.   Thanks for sharing your opinions on this.

 

Thank you. I value @enrique14150and his views all season. He’s at the games and sees the players firsthand. Obviously when coach and players are in sync you get championship results. I just feel there’s a growing disconnect there. Almost as if Whitesell is trying to force a square block in a round hole.

[DocCas86]

Heading into the season I was thinking 10-8 in MAC, but trending up at the end to be competitive in MAC tourney.  While the miss on MAC regular season record was only one game, how the team got there is important.  The gap between the current team and top teams in MAC is larger than I was hoping and they did not finish on a high note.  I attribute some of the gap to them being a young team.  How do you think a freshman Enrique Freeman would do guarding a senior Enrique Freeman?  There is upside potential with this team, if they keep the core together, and they address their weaknesses.   I would get a sense of the players belief in their potential and their faith in the coach to help them achieve that potential.  The answer to that would be my primary consideration.

[enrique14150]

9 hours ago, UB92 said:

I think both of these takes from @enrique14150and @DooleyBull06 are interesting and provide two viewpoints.  One more focused on the players and the other more focused on the coaching.   Thanks for sharing your opinions on this.

 

I don't want my take to come across as, I'm letting the coaches off the hook.  It's a results-based business.  (But at some universities, HOW you go about it matters too).

I try to realize what I know and what I don't, what I possibly can know and what I can't.  While I've been a long-time season ticket holder, and I can observe some things about basketball, I don't know a lot about the structure of plays and the details behind the movement and the defense.  I can't possibly know what's going on in practices or what the game plan is - so I can't tell if they're not being instructed well, or if they are and the players aren't executing the instructions.  I notice effort, I notice stats, I notice things like rebounding position and if people are actually open for shots.  I notice overall style and overall progression.

I responded to a comment on facebook this season, to someone calling for Whitesell's job, with "explain to me what's going wrong?  If you know more about basketball.  What plays are they running wrong, what plays should they be running, how are they mis-using talent?"  I want to be better informed, by someone who knows more than me.  That guy threw it back that it wasn't his job to explain that (to me it was, if you're going to criticize something/someone, back it up).  

The program isn't getting the results we have grown to expect.  We expect to compete in the top 4 of the MAC.  I can't explain in detail what the coaches are or aren't doing and what they should've done.  From the results and the looks of things, the team was not as talented as the teams above them.  Ultimately at some point that's going to fall on the coaches.  For some of these guys, I don't know if they have more to improve from here, no matter who's coaching them.  Going forward, without knowing what's being instructed and what's being said, it feels to me like a recruiting challenge, to increase the talent level on the team.  Transfers are nice, but even with the guys they brought in during Hurley and Oats, most of those guys were as-is - they didn't get much better during their time.  For the freshmen it's a matter of, what's their potential?  And without seeing or knowing what goes into it behind the scenes, all we can judge is by the progress on the court.  Those first two years in college are incredibly important from a development standpoint.  Can they bring in guys this offseason who are better than who they have?  Can they bring in freshmen recruits with the potential to be better than who they have in 3 years time?  That's essentially my "Future of the Bulls" comment

[ButlerAlumDad]

I've known coach since his Loyola days. IMO he's a good bench coach and a mediocre game coach. He complimented NO's fiery style. UB lost and has not replaced Bryan's recruiting chops. It's time to plan for the future before all is lost. Bring home one of the 2 Berkuns or Adam Cohen. UB can't compete in the NIL era for top talent in the portal. I'd use a strategy of recruiting kids from PG prep programs that might be 1-2 and done (going to p6 programs). The dreams of leaving the MAC to go to a multi-bid conference is over. Totally change the direction of the program. When was the last time UB produced an Academic All-American? 

[enrique14150]

ButlerAlumDad - I have heard something similar, that he was the behind-the-scenes glue amongst the team.  I was actually impressed how much he took a more active approach during games this year, to take timeouts right away to fix something.  Rather than let it play out.  I think that was a matter of coaching a new team.  Again, I don't know who does what in practices and game planning.  So I'm hesitant to criticize anyone specifically in any direction there.

I don't think anything is ever 'all lost'.  Especially at this level where there's so much turnover.  You're likely to lose good coaches (and now, players) because they'll get a better opportunity.  But that's an opportunity for new, hungry coaches and players.  I never forget that some of the qualities that made Massinburg, Perkins, Carruthers, McCrea, etc. so successful was that chip on their shoulder, that drive to prove themselves.  So it is very possible to turn anything around pretty quickly - "quickly" depends on who you get.

I like what you had to say about direction - what kind of team/program are they trying to be?  What is the priority, the selling point?  Beyond just "best basketball players, apply here."  What kind of people?  They have a game style, it's left over from Hurley and Oats.  And they've largely recruited players to play that style.  As I said last week, that Mirambeaux guy on Miami was interesting for them but would've been useless in UB's style.  At this level, especially with all the transferring now, can you afford to be picky?  I thought Reggie was VERY picky about who he brought in.  Hurley and Oats started cutting corners in order to win (Justin Moss, Raheem Johnson).

Edited March 10, 2023 by enrique14150