Bryan Hodgson

[eyjee]

I may be off because my memory is horrible but didn't a ton of energy in the Oats days not just come from Nate? I'm talking like I remember the athletic trainer, whose name escapes me, being one of the most hype guys on the bench.

It doesn't have to only be the HC, or it can be someone besides the HC. Energy is culture based, in my opinion.

[MuchMany]

6 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:

Gregg Popovich sat like a rock on the bench for his last 15 years of coaching and still won a championship.

If you know when to pick your battles and delegate responsibility to your assistants, a team can still play with confidence. Hurley was both over-dramatic and a good coach, so we were spoiled by that.

Now we have George mouth-breathing and clapping on the sidelines when his team's down by 20.

Lol, yes if you're one of the greatest basketball minds in the game's history like Pop, you can be quiet and stoic. That's not an applicable reference.

Care to answer my question? Did Whitesell, his staff, or his teams show enough energy? To me they absolutely did not, but I have no idea why you think I'd need to couch my real feelings about him. People here will tell you, I was one of his longest defenders, too long in hindsight.

Halcovage is a mute on the sideline. He has zero energy.

Edited February 6 by MuchMany

[MuchMany]

1 minute ago, eyjee said:

I may be off because my memory is horrible but didn't a ton of energy in the Oats days not just come from Nate? I'm talking like I remember the athletic trainer, whose name escapes me, being one of the most hype guys on the bench.

It doesn't have to only be the HC, or it can be someone besides the HC. Energy is culture based, in my opinion.

Nate is one of the most high-energy coaches in the country. As is Hurley. Where else would the program culture and resulting energy trickle down from if not the HC and the qualities that he values?

[eyjee]

Just now, MuchMany said:

Nate is one of the most high-energy coaches in the country. As is Hurley. Where else would the program culture and resulting energy trickle down from if not the HC and the qualities that he values?

Yes great clarification. It can come from the coach but he doesn't need to be the only one to show it, and he certainly doesn't need to show it to instill it in the culture. I think Oats -> Whitesell -> GH3 is like a Pokemon who is devolving. 

Oats was a major hype guy, it went from top to bottom in the org, and it's no surprise that Hodgson coaches the same way.

Whitesell was more reserved, but I think his teams still had some buzz. Could easily be trickle down from the Oats days but I think of a guy like Hardnett who always had that swag and energy on the court and Quill never played for Oats.

GH3 is... a lemon 😅

Basically what I'm saying is I'm afraid that the "energy" we're seeing from the Bulls these days is the GH3 culture. More reserved.

[Bullsboys]

47 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Considering the fact that Halcovage was our 4th or 5th preference, I've been wondering if this season isn't more the product of the larger program at UB and the shape that Whitesell left it in. Why else would so many seemingly interested and qualified candidates turn us down?

My guess is two things: our non-participation in NIL (which Alnutt, Whitesell, and Mo should have started three years ago) and the condition of the roster moving forward. It may have felt like being set up to fail for guys looking at their own career prospects.

Remember: there's a reason so many people wanted JW gone. The rosters were getting worse, the in-game coaching was bad, no energy. Things were bad and it felt like they were going to get worse. Now we're dealing with the leftovers of his mediocre guys and a random collection of last-minute freshmen. Of course it's worse. 

Without the resources to compete for certain prospects and left with a roster comprised of misfit holdovers and zero incoming recruits, what exactly was the appeal? Basketball isn't like football where you can scheme your way out of things and hide a lack of talent across 100 guys. It's about 12 guys making shots in the end, Jimmys and Joes etc. The cupboard here was essentially bare.

And the coaching this year has been horrific too. It's not to excuse that. I'm just trying to understand how we got to this point. I wrote the most scathing preview of this season out of anyone, predicting 6-12 MAC, but even that didn't go far enough.

I thought Whitesell and Co had good energy out there, not on the level of Oats and Hurley but that was their style and not his, I felt that Whitesell had a presence on the sidelines and I still felt that his teams played with a blue collar mentality.

As far as NIL, under Whitesell the players had NIL infrastructure that was there for the team. When JW was let go so did the NIL Money. 

If JW had of stayed we would have been an upper team in the MAC this season maybe even competing with Akron if they had brought the right transfer PG in to replace Foster.
JW had a full rebuild last season, developed players like Curtis Jones, Isaac Jack, Isaiah Adams etc, they played one of the top non-conference schedules in the nation according to Kenpom and brought in a lot of money for the University through the Buy Games - Made it to Cleveland and won almost half of their games in a full rebuild season! 

Now we are in a full rebuild situation again - We have a win against a NON-D1 school and a directional Michigan school. 

ADMA in my mind is the one who should be held responsible with his mishandling of the JW Firing and this poor hire in GH. 

 

[MuchMany]

2 minutes ago, Bullsboys said:

I thought Whitesell and Co had good energy out there, not on the level of Oats and Hurley but that was their style and not his, I felt that Whitesell had a presence on the sidelines and I still felt that his teams played with a blue collar mentality.

I guess we saw that differently. JW was certainly exasperated at times, but he, Thorpe, Foley, etc were mostly bumps on a log. His last two teams, once the Oats DNA was gone, were as sleepy and passive as they come.

4 minutes ago, Bullsboys said:

As far as NIL, under Whitesell the players had NIL infrastructure that was there for the team. When JW was let go so did the NIL Money

I know we have the minimum NIL infrastructure, I don't think that's enough. Whatever JW did was not enough compared to what we hear from Ohio, etc. And this is the first I've heard of any of our meager NIL backers defecting with JW.

6 minutes ago, Bullsboys said:

If JW had of stayed we would have been an upper team in the MAC this season maybe even competing with Akron if they had brought the right transfer PG in to replace Foster.
JW had a full rebuild last season, developed players like Curtis Jones, Isaac Jack, Isaiah Adams etc, they played one of the top non-conference schedules in the nation according to Kenpom and brought in a lot of money for the University through the Buy Games - Made it to Cleveland and won almost half of their games in a full rebuild season! 

I see no scenario where Curtis Jones and Issac Jack don't leave for Iowa State and Dayton, respectively. Those options were there for them if JW stayed or not. Whatever small NIL bag UB has was not going to keep them here. Especially not after a poor year, "winning almost half their games."

[dutchcountry7]

2 hours ago, Chet said:

 This is a relationship business and the fact that ADMA severed the relationship with the Oats years is poor judgement IMO. The FACT is that we cut ties to the greatest era in Bulls basketball history for GHIII and that decision appears to be an absolute joke. 

Hodgson didn't seem concerned about maintaining relationships when he was burning bridges.

And I find your second comment funny.

Jim Whitesell was the continuation of the Oats era.  You're picking one data point--Hodgson--and saying that if he isn't given the job then UB is turning their back on their history?  What an asinine comment.  Clearly hyperbole.

[dutchcountry7]

51 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

I see no scenario where Curtis Jones and Issac Jack don't leave for Iowa State and Dayton, respectively. Those options were there for them if JW stayed or not. Whatever small NIL bag UB has was not going to keep them here. Especially not after a poor year, "winning almost half their games."

That's the claim made by many when Oats left.  People were saying that if Hodgson wasn't hired the whole team would transfer.  They were wrong.

I agree that it was time to move on from JW but it is crazy for anyone to think that his players didn't love playing for him and the UB rosters were stable and largely free from transfers because the players wanted to stay with him.

JW likely would have had a higher performing team this year.  I agree with that.  But I also think it was time to move on.  Though the process wasn't managed well because UB didn't understand the landscape and thought they had more to offer prospective coaches than they were actually willing to offer.

[RapidsFan]

.

Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[Chet]

13 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Hodgson didn't seem concerned about maintaining relationships when he was burning bridges.

And I find your second comment funny.

Jim Whitesell was the continuation of the Oats era.  You're picking one data point--Hodgson--and saying that if he isn't given the job then UB is turning their back on their history?  What an asinine comment.  Clearly hyperbole.

Let’s agree to disagree. Lol with the assnine comment though. 

[Chet]

7 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

That's the claim made by many when Oats left.  People were saying that if Hodgson wasn't hired the whole team would transfer.  They were wrong.

I agree that it was time to move on from JW but it is crazy for anyone to think that his players didn't love playing for him and the UB rosters were stable and largely free from transfers because the players wanted to stay with him.

JW likely would have had a higher performing team this year.  I agree with that.  But I also think it was time to move on.  Though the process wasn't managed well because UB didn't understand the landscape and thought they had more to offer prospective coaches than they were actually willing to offer.

This take is completely reasonable though. I’m with all this. No assnine comments here.

[dutchcountry7]

43 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:

Like another poster said, he was already out the door so it didn't matter.

If a guy gives 2 weeks notice and decides to yell "fuck this place" every working hour until he leaves, that's a reflection on the employer for letting things get that bad

What didn't matter?  Maintaining relationships and keeping a connection to Buffalo?

How can you turn around and say Buffalo is the place for you after that?

I agree with your second comment about the employer.  But it is also a reflection on the employer if they welcome that individual back.  Especially when that individual is going around saying they have so many great offers that Buffalo would be lucky to have him.

[MuchMany]

1 hour ago, MuchMany said:

Lol, yes if you're one of the greatest basketball minds in the game's history like Pop, you can be quiet and stoic. That's not an applicable reference.

Care to answer my question? Did Whitesell, his staff, or his teams show enough energy? To me they absolutely did not, but I have no idea why you think I'd need to couch my real feelings about him. People here will tell you, I was one of his longest defenders, too long in hindsight.

Halcovage is a mute on the sideline. He has zero energy.

Cat got your tongue @RapidsFan?

[RapidsFan]

.

Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[MuchMany]

1 minute ago, RapidsFan said:

You never responded when I asked if you were being ageist, so why would I dignify your Very Not Mad comment with a response

"Care to answer my question? Did Whitesell, his staff, or his teams show enough energy? To me they absolutely did not, but I have no idea why you think I'd need to couch my real feelings about him. People here will tell you, I was one of his longest defenders, too long in hindsight."

I clearly said I don't think he showed enough energy. I have seen coaches old and young show energy. Not sure how I was supposed to answer your begging question.

[Chet]

7 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Cat got your tongue @RapidsFan?

The amount of frustration on this board is nuts. I don’t think anyone on UBfan is more frustrated than me. As fellow Bulls fans, I love all on this board (almost all)….there were never enough Bulls fans around to begin with and because of the current state of affairs, I fear there will be even less. 
 

[MuchMany]

Just now, Chet said:

The amount of frustration on this board is nuts. I don’t think anyone on UBfan is more frustrated than me. As fellow Bulls fans, I love all on this board (almost all)….there were never enough Bulls fans around to begin with and because of the current state of affairs, I fear there will be even less. 
 

Eh, we can be frustrated without making horseshit, baseless assumptions about each other's well thought out, paragraphs-long posts. At least in my opinion, maybe @RapidsFan disagrees.

[RapidsFan]

.

Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[MuchMany]

1 minute ago, RapidsFan said:

Hounding fellow users because they don't respond to your posts is a "you" problem

Engaging someone in bad faith and then abandoning the conversation when called out is most certainly a YOU problem.

[RapidsFan]

12 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Engaging someone in bad faith and then abandoning the conversation when called out is most certainly a YOU problem.

[MuchMany]

2 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:

You're a clown man. Good luck promoting the semi-pro team.

[RapidsFan]

.

Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[MuchMany]

Just now, RapidsFan said:

I don't work for UB Athletics

Putting this troll on ignore. Anyone who cares about the discourse here is welcome to follow suit. 

[UBinMD]

18 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Putting this troll on ignore. Anyone who cares about the discourse here is welcome to follow suit. 

I beat you by 2 weeks on that front! Welcome to the fresh air on this side. 

[dutchcountry7]

I am not too active on here... I tend to go weeks at a time without visiting and then spend a day engaging a lot before dropping off again.  As a result, I don't know a lot of the drama from the board.

But the things I quickly picked up is that I have disagreed with @MuchMany a fair amount but he has always made his arguments in good faith and we ultimately want the same thing--the success of the programs... and @RapidsFan does not make good faith arguments and often tries to paint people as a bigots out of left field.  @RapidsFan is new here as far as I know... so I am not sure if they are a troll or just some nieve young kid just getting exposed to the world and trying to champion social justice in every instance possible even when it isn't an issue... But this is one of many such examples... claiming someone is ageist because they don't think someone displays enough energy?  ha ha  Talk about a strawman... needing to paint the messenger as a bigot so you can try to undermine their arguments without addressing the issues and don't have to engage with them.

And for the record, I don't think a coach needs to display high energy on the sideline to be successful.  Some do and are successful and some don't and are successful.  There are some very successful coaches that many would label low energy out there in many different sports.  It's also true that coaches, like all people, slow down with age so if one of your strengths as a coach was being high energy to motivate your players then that strength will diminish over time.  It just happens that most coaches also develop many other skills over time that make the need to be high energy on the side line less significant.