The MAC...slow and steady.

[UB92]

For many years, the MAC has rejected turnover in the major sports (basketball and football).  Sure, a team here or there has moved in and out over the past 20+ years (Marshall left in 2005...for the second time, then there were the brief stays by Temple, UMass and UCF).  In fact, Since UB joined in 1998, the same 12 teams have been there as full members through thick and thin.

And...things are getting thin.

I remember when the powers that be made the formal split between "P5" and "G5".  Where was the MAC?  Was it 6?  Was it 7?   

Danny White pushed the AAC towards "P6" status...t

The MAC, slow and steady, kept its 12 teams.  Nose to the grindstone.  

Within the past few years we have seen the rise of the Sun Belt (no more "Fun Belt").  

The MAC, plodding away...looking around in curiosity as other conferences raid C-USA.

What is the MAC strategy?  Slow and steady.   Oh...and collect that bag during the OOC football season.

 

Now...the MAC is irrelevant, much closer to MVC than the Sun Belt, in my opinion.

And things are getting worse.   Even though C-USA looks like a sinking ship, it is still going faster than the MAC.  Liberty, which joins C-USA next year, just paid the Coastal Carolina coach $4M to bolt from the Sun Belt to C-USA.  And while Liberty has a lot of money to give, it is indicative of where the MAC is.

After nearly 25 years in the MAC, UB has settled into that comfortable slot of being a team in the MAC, with no vision beyond.  It contrasts starkly with the investment the university has made in other area.  I always thought the MAC would be a stepping stone for UB in its "run to division 1".  After all, many schools have made a similar run and used conferences as stepping stones (looking at you, UCF, who joins the Big 12 at the beginning of the next fiscal year).

UB has been dragged down by the MAC.  It is this very high research university in a large city and is a (co) state flagship institution...yet competes at the bottom of "major" football.  

https://www.si.com/college/2022/09/26/ranking-college-football-conferences-sec-big-ten

 

We just spent Friday in a death struggle against Akron to get to six wins to go to the Gasparilla Mowers Bowl against <state> + <direction> university.  "MACTION" is a fun word, but they are making fun of the MAC teams and the conference with those words.  They are laughing at us.

 

The Run to Division 1 has stalled in a muddy field somewhere in Ohio, with little hope of getting out.   I hope, once Tripathi retires (he turns 72 in January), we can get a President with a better vision about the value of college sports to a region and a flagship institution like UB.   I ain't getting any younger, either.

 

Go Bulls.

[BRJACR75]

I don’t disagree with a lick of what you’ve written.

Yesterday, I wasn’t feeling quite well, so I took it easy and turned on the Tulane/UCF game just to have some noise in the background trying to sleep, then I heard “UCF is off to the Big 12”, I immediately opened my eyes and said out loud “WTF” which prompted my wife to come in and check on me.

It also occurred to me that there was a slew of G5 conference title games on normal channels through out the day.  The MAC Championship was buried on one of the ESPN’s, early in the day, almost as a second thought.  I’m surprised that they didn’t try to make it a ESPN+ game.  
 

your right, this conference while stable, surely is a ticket to no where.  They absolutely refuse to better them selves, ever.  It’s probably why the are always trying to put their bastion of mediocrity, Ohio, on a pedestal as much as they possibly can.

 

 

[promotherobot]

The MAC is the bottom of the Group of 5. It used to be above the Sun Belt and C*USA. Not anymore.

[BrooklynBull]

5 hours ago, BRJACR75 said:

The MAC Championship was buried on one of the ESPN’s, early in the day,

It was on the mothership, ESPN.

[BrooklynBull]

For those who think that UB should have changed conferences, what conference do you think would have worked both geographically and budget wise?  In doing so remember that the only Power 5 conference that took G5 schools was the Big12 which was headed to oblivion after losing Texas and Oklahoma.

The only move to a P5 conference that makes any sense geographically would be to replace either Nebraska or UCLA in the Big 10.  However, unless we get a full share of the media deal from day 1, it will be a disaster budget wise.

[promotherobot]

14 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said:

For those who think that UB should have changed conferences, what conference do you think would have worked both geographically and budget wise?  In doing so remember that the only Power 5 conference that took G5 schools was the Big12 which was headed to oblivion after losing Texas and Oklahoma.

The only move to a P5 conference that makes any sense geographically would be to replace either Nebraska or UCLA in the Big 10.  However, unless we get a full share of the media deal from day 1, it will be a disaster budget wise.

LOL, in order to change conferences, a conference has to want you. C-USA invited FCS schools to join instead of asking any MAC school. UB is in the MAC forever unless they kick us out. "One of us!...One of us!..."

Edited December 4, 2022 by promotherobot

[rma]

1 hour ago, promotherobot said:

LOL, in order to change conferences, a conference has to want you. C-USA invited FCS schools to join instead of asking any MAC school. UB is in the MAC forever unless they kick us out. "One of us!...One of us!..."

I don't think any MAC schools would have seriously considered that, us included. Who knows, they might have reached out, the AD and presidents said "lol no" and that was the end of that.

[promotherobot]

48 minutes ago, rma said:

I don't think any MAC schools would have seriously considered that, us included. Who knows, they might have reached out, the AD and presidents said "lol no" and that was the end of that.

Nobody wants Buffalo. Too much of a pro shorts town.

[RecoveringHillbilly]

CUSA is not going to be something special next season when they lose their best teams/markets. No MAC team was going to accept joining that dumpster fire Judy has brought into existence. Liberty was not wanted by any other league. They can pay a coach $4mm due to their online diploma-mill budget, and wanting to be the Evangelical version of ND/BYU/Baylor. They will own the depleted CUSA, with some resistance from La Tech and WKU.

SBC did very well with who they brought in, dumping Little Rock/TX-Arlington, and it was humble pie for Southern Miss. fans who thought for the past decade they were bound for the AAC. 

MAC is steady as they only want WKU and MTSU. JMU and ODU were going with Marshall, and no way MAC/Herd #3. If MTSU was not gun-shy about losing out on all that yummy exit fee revenue they would have jumped to the MAC with WKU. And, in time, they still might. The MAC wont expand just to expand, or else a blunder like adding EKU or YSU would occur. Delaware has brought up FBS again but would be an outlier. Stony Brook has budget tightening and seems destined to just settle in a CAA mid-regional core with Delaware, Hofstra, Drexel and Towson. 

Even if the MAC takes on 2 more the big MAC issue is, only UB is increasing its enrollment/budget/endowment. Best case for us is 1) Big10 takes no other PAC12 schools 2) The ACC GOR opens up early legally or waiting it out 3) Big10 and SEC want to go MEGA and take the best properties from the ACC (Clemson, FSU, UVA, UNC, Miami, ND, NCST, GT) and 4) WVU, Cincy, UCF are just happy in the Big12, which has a nice media deal even with losing TX and OK. Then we have a shot at the ACC academic snobbish leftovers really needing 6-10 football schools. AAC just wants to be another southern-markets G5 league above the other 2, to the chagrin of Temple and Navy.

[RecoveringHillbilly]

57 minutes ago, promotherobot said:

Nobody wants Buffalo. Too much of a pro shorts town.

Best local tv ratings in the MAC, no P5 that owns WNY, and the largest MAC fanbase based on many studies. At one time, nobody could have imagined Rutgers to the Big10 or Cincy to the Big 12.

[rma]

2 hours ago, RecoveringHillbilly said:

Then we have a shot at the ACC academic snobbish leftovers really needing 6-10 football schools. AAC just wants to be another southern-markets G5 league above the other 2, to the chagrin of Temple and Navy.

Yep, I really think the best chance of an upgrade is ACC falls apart and Navy and Temple want out of AAC. I don't see that happening soon unfortunately.

That would make a conference of UMass, Army, Navy, Temple, Boston College, Syracuse, Buffalo, Pitt. Lots of appeal playing those schools both for locals and students.

 

2 hours ago, RecoveringHillbilly said:

Even if the MAC takes on 2 more the big MAC issue is, only UB is increasing its enrollment/budget/endowment.

This is a huge issue. Besides the academic gap between Buffalo/Miami and everybody else, there's huge enrollment issues at a ton of MAC schools. I looked it up at some point, but I think UB, MU, and OU were the only schools that have really increased enrollment.

[UB92]

10 hours ago, RecoveringHillbilly said:

Even if the MAC takes on 2 more the big MAC issue is, only UB is increasing its enrollment/budget/endowment. Best case for us is 1) Big10 takes no other PAC12 schools 2) The ACC GOR opens up early legally or waiting it out 3) Big10 and SEC want to go MEGA and take the best properties from the ACC (Clemson, FSU, UVA, UNC, Miami, ND, NCST, GT) and 4) WVU, Cincy, UCF are just happy in the Big12, which has a nice media deal even with losing TX and OK. Then we have a shot at the ACC academic snobbish leftovers really needing 6-10 football schools. AAC just wants to be another southern-markets G5 league above the other 2, to the chagrin of Temple and Navy.

I don't disagree with this.  But the President of UB has to be willing to act if something like this were to occur.  Even if all of those dominos fall in the way you mention, what we have learned about this President is:

• He made athletic budget cuts to soccer (M), swimming & diving (M), baseball, rowing (W)
• You can read between the lines on why we hired Whitesell (he was cheap)

 

Here is UB's Boldly Buffalo campaign for UB athletics:  https://www.buffalo.edu/campaign/priorities-and-goals/UB-athletics.html   ($30M)

I did a random Google search on an athletics campaign or a university.  The first one is UNC.  https://ramsclub.com/campaign-for-carolina/   ($500M)

It is very easy to find other schools raising $100s of millions for athletics.

$30M is UB's target...and they have 85% of their goal.

Cincy?  Going to B12?  Raising $100 M  https://foundation.uc.edu/news/athletics-day-one-ready-campaign-launch

I LOVE this quote from their AD:    "We didn’t wait for this moment, we worked for it. And now that it’s here, we’re not getting complacent—we’re coming for the head seat at the table."

 

Now I expect the typical response to this information to be "UB doesn't have those donors", "Buffalo is a professional shorts town", etc., etc.   Same old, same old excuses.

We need better leadership in this area, plain and simple, and it starts with the President and the AD.  We are going to have to wait out this President.

 

 

 

[DaBulls99]

Bowling Green FB HC signed a 3 year extension. Closed the second half of the season well. 

[UB Horns Up]

On 12/5/2022 at 8:45 AM, UB92 said:

I don't disagree with this.  But the President of UB has to be willing to act if something like this were to occur.  Even if all of those dominos fall in the way you mention, what we have learned about this President is:

• He made athletic budget cuts to soccer (M), swimming & diving (M), baseball, rowing (W)
• You can read between the lines on why we hired Whitesell (he was cheap)

 

Here is UB's Boldly Buffalo campaign for UB athletics:  https://www.buffalo.edu/campaign/priorities-and-goals/UB-athletics.html   ($30M)

I did a random Google search on an athletics campaign or a university.  The first one is UNC.  https://ramsclub.com/campaign-for-carolina/   ($500M)

It is very easy to find other schools raising $100s of millions for athletics.

$30M is UB's target...and they have 85% of their goal.

Cincy?  Going to B12?  Raising $100 M  https://foundation.uc.edu/news/athletics-day-one-ready-campaign-launch

I LOVE this quote from their AD:    "We didn’t wait for this moment, we worked for it. And now that it’s here, we’re not getting complacent—we’re coming for the head seat at the table."

 

Now I expect the typical response to this information to be "UB doesn't have those donors", "Buffalo is a professional shorts town", etc., etc.   Same old, same old excuses.

We need better leadership in this area, plain and simple, and it starts with the President and the AD.  We are going to have to wait out this President.

 

 

 

UB Bulls have tried for over two decades unfortunately there are a lot of sports fans in New York State that feel more comfortable giving there money to PSE Terry Pegula or MSG James Dolan including New York State politicians it is what it is in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[UB Horns Up]

On 12/4/2022 at 9:55 PM, RecoveringHillbilly said:

Best local tv ratings in the MAC, no P5 that owns WNY, and the largest MAC fanbase based on many studies. At one time, nobody could have imagined Rutgers to the Big10 or Cincy to the Big 12.

Rutgers had a willing New Jersey Governor Chris Christie I think was in at that time. Cincinnati is in a very good high school football and college football state. New York doesn’t have such a college football culture like Ohio which helped Cincinnati or New Jersey that plays good football that helped Rutgers. Syracuse Orange struggle because of the limited amount of college football FBS players available that are any good in New York. If Syracuse Orange didn’t play football then sure UB might have gotten a Rutgers FBS Power 5 spot that went to Syracuse that represents New York State in the Power 5 structure like Rutgers does for the state of New Jersey in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited April 13, 2023 by UB Horns Up

[UB Horns Up]

On 12/4/2022 at 8:49 PM, promotherobot said:

Nobody wants Buffalo. Too much of a pro shorts town.

Well that is on New York State fans and politicians that are more comfortable giving all their money to PSE Terry Pegula and MSG James Dolan in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[BrooklynBull]

1 minute ago, UB Horns Up said:

Rutgers had a willing New Jersey Governor Chris Christie I think was in at that time. Cincinnati is in a very good high school football and college football state. New York doesn’t have such a college football culture like Ohio which helped Cincinnati or New Jersey that plays good football that helped Rutgers. Syracuse Orange struggle because of the limited amount of college football FBS players available that are any good in New York. If Syracuse Orange didn’t play football then sure UB might have gotten a Rutgers FBS Power 5 spot that went to Syracuse in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Christie had nothing to do with getting Rutgers into the Big 10 as Big East Football collapsed.  Rutgers got into the Big 10 because of Fox owning most of the Big 10 Network and the YES Network.  It was an illegal tie-in deal in violation of the Anti-Trust laws.  They got away with it since the Anti-Trust laws have not been enforced for years.

[promotherobot]

12 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:

Well that is on New York State fans and politicians that are more comfortable giving all their money to PSE Terry Pegula and MSG James Dolan in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Because the pro sports teams generate significant jobs and revenue. Duh.

[promotherobot]

On 12/4/2022 at 9:55 PM, RecoveringHillbilly said:

Best local tv ratings in the MAC, no P5 that owns WNY, and the largest MAC fanbase based on many studies. At one time, nobody could have imagined Rutgers to the Big10 or Cincy to the Big 12.

I agree. Buffalo has it's pros. But as proven by the recent conference realignments, whatever pros we have aren't enough to generate an invite, even to the LOL-worthy C-USA.

[rma]

3 hours ago, promotherobot said:

But as proven by the recent conference realignments, whatever pros we have aren't enough to generate an invite, even to the LOL-worthy C-USA.

It would be a negative for us to join CUSA. Sure FAU’s run is giving them some additional money but the geography is awful. Most people know which state our schools are in. The future CUSA not so much. 

[clodney]

32 minutes ago, rma said:

It would be a negative for us to join CUSA. Sure FAU’s run is giving them some additional money but the geography is awful. Most people know which state our schools are in. The future CUSA not so much. 

All I have witnessed is that every other conference, including the CUSA, has been raided by the big boys while the MAC sat with the same members for a decade and a half. It's great that we had stability but I'm not confident any opportunities will present themselves while wallowing in this FBS bottom-feeding conference. The MAC will always be a spot for irrelevant younger siblings of the Big Ten. We need to disassociate ourselves with that persona and try another path if we have any aspirations of seeking a higher conference. Otherwise, we can just expect to fall into that category for the long run.

[BrooklynBull]

17 minutes ago, clodney said:

All I have witnessed is that every other conference, including the CUSA, has been raided by the big boys while the MAC sat with the same members for a decade and a half. It's great that we had stability but I'm not confident any opportunities will present themselves while wallowing in this FBS bottom-feeding conference. The MAC will always be a spot for irrelevant younger siblings of the Big Ten. We need to disassociate ourselves with that persona and try another path if we have any aspirations of seeking a higher conference. Otherwise, we can just expect to fall into that category for the long run.

Do you mean the conference that had the highst winning percentage in bowl games last season?

[rma]

3 hours ago, clodney said:

All I have witnessed is that every other conference, including the CUSA, has been raided by the big boys while the MAC sat with the same members for a decade and a half. It's great that we had stability but I'm not confident any opportunities will present themselves while wallowing in this FBS bottom-feeding conference. The MAC will always be a spot for irrelevant younger siblings of the Big Ten. We need to disassociate ourselves with that persona and try another path if we have any aspirations of seeking a higher conference. Otherwise, we can just expect to fall into that category for the long run.

Location. Since UB went D1, no G5 north of the Mason-Dixon has been offered, accepted, and played a football game in a P5 conference. The southeast is filled with D1 schools that can play musical chairs. It doesn't make sense for UB to lose the location advantage (cost, fan experience of going to away games) and jump out of the MAC into one of those conferences.

I hate being in a conference that has a bunch of failing glorified community colleges, but right now it's the only thing we can do. In the future we can hope the ACC falls apart, which will probably leave the northeast schools left out of the SEC/Big Ten. If they raid the AAC or other conferences we want to be at the top of the list with schools like Temple, even UMass. If they look south (App State, Georgia Southern, ECU, etc) like the AAC is doing, we get left out. We aren't getting there with our current stadium though.

[promotherobot]

7 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:

Do you mean the conference that had the highst winning percentage in bowl games last season?

What does that mean, really?

[BrooklynBull]

15 minutes ago, promotherobot said:

What does that mean, really?

The MAC is not a wallowing FBS bottom-feeding conference.