Athletic Vison and Expectations

[Sportsfan]

Buffalo =Top US Universities = Academic Ranking and Funding (see endowment image). 

Athletic Program = TBD

[SGBull]

Not sure if I missed this somewhere else, but looks like they are finally getting a proper fitness center for the athletes. https://buffalonews.com/sports/college/ub-announces-plans-for-7-5-million-sports-performance-center-project/article_de1e1686-70cf-11ed-8280-8baddc957708.html

[promotherobot]

Interesting how Buffalo lands between the G5 schools and the P5's. 

[UB Horns Up]

Yes but UB really is behind actually fans attending UB Bulls football games compared to a lot of these schools on the list because unfortunately most people in Western New York don’t like the viewing experience of UB football with a track around the football field. The soccer lines doesn’t give off big time either. They need to put UB soccer at Rotary Field and get UB soccer out of UB Stadium. The soccer lines look terrible on television we are one of a few bush league schools with it. It comes off as Division 3 athletics today in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Old Bull]

Do not make the stadium track the primary issue for poor football attendance. There are several other universities around the country with tracks. If fans want to see a college game they will indeed go track or not. Repeating this as the major reason for attendance turns into a self fulfilling prophecy. 

That said the major issue for UB is a community that has never latched on to UB  and its sports program, particularly football. When we moved to to WNY  over 50 years ago we found a Buffalo area that was very hostile to UB. It has never been "our school". Even upper middle class families paid for their kids to attend elsewhere. This has changed a bit with the growth of the campus and it's educational excellence but there are other endemic issues that hinder community and alumni support

One major issue  is the Mid-America conference. UB has outgrown the MAC as an institution but not it's sports competition. The MAC has attendance problems even among the older established schools. In other words I think UB needs to be seen in a different context to succeed. It would help if it could be perceived as a university on the rise as it is academically. This means seeking a new set of partners e.g Americani Conference.

To move in this direction we need UB leadership to make intercollegiate athletics a priority for growth and an entrepreneural AD. Athletic supporters, alumni and students will folLow if we have some set goals and a way to get there. Bill Greiner and Steve Sample were there as was Ward Manuel and Danny White.

As to fundingt issues, UB has the largest endowment of any public university not in a P5 conference. Funds can be set aside and/or earmarked for athletic development. During the recent campaign for UB I never saw anything that would inprove UB's athletic stature. 

Finally, someone recently said in jest lets have the Bills adopt the Bulls. A great idea  and let this be seen openly.  There are other communities where this is so e.g.Pittsburgh and to a degree Minneapolis.  Play a game against a quality oppene3nt at the new stadium and have Bills support it. If one looks at future non-conference football opponents it is filled with multiple games against UCONN and UMASS two eastern public schools that are defintely not on the rise. We can do better than that!

 

Comments to these opinions are welcome. Let's get the ball rolling!

[rma]

15 hours ago, Old Bull said:

There are several other universities around the country with tracks. If fans want to see a college game they will indeed go track or not.

The only other FBS school that has a track is Eastern Michigan. FBS schools that used to have a track or have a track that is not in use are Nevada, Duke, Boise State, Kansas.

I haven't been to all of those stadiums, but the ones I have (Eastern Michigan, Duke, Boise State, Kansas - not for a game) either have made renovations to improve the sight lines since removing the track (Duke) or have better sight lines than UB to begin with (the others). From a spot in the stands at UB, you can not only see the track, but you can see EVERY LANE of the track. At EMU, the stands are much closer to the field than at UB and they are also higher up from the field than UB's are.

Removing the track does nothing to improve the sightlines, but does acknowledge that we're one of the last FBS schools to finally remove it and shows that there is some investment in the general attendee's experience. Right now the track and the video board tell the typical person that UB is not invested in people watching football at UB Stadium. You could probably get a better look at a replay on your Apple Watch than our video board.

15 hours ago, Old Bull said:

If one looks at future non-conference football opponents it is filled with multiple games against UCONN and UMASS two eastern public schools that are defintely not on the rise. We can do better than that!

I understand that UConn and UMass are not blockbuster games, but I would prefer regional games where the opposing fanbase can drive to in a weekend than playing OOC opponents that make less sense from a fan perspective (Coastal, Louisiana, etc). I think our FCS games should always be an in-state opponent rather than a HBCU from a few states away (unless they bring their band).

 

I agree with a lot of what you say though. It's embarrassing that UB is in an athletics conference with schools that are not competitive. Our 25th percentile SAT score is the same as EMU and NIU's 75th percentile SAT score, and within 30 points of a whole list of other "peers'" 75th (Kent State, Akron, Ball State, BG).

[UB Horns Up]

The UB Stadium track is a major issue. As a Buffalo Bulls fan I want no part of anything besides the MAC because I am noting making the Marshall Thundering Head football mistake thinking this university UB is anything more athletically than a MAC as the way UB, New York State and SUNY are mentally wise towards athletics and Buffalo for that matter. I have a lot more to say on this subject because I think it’s the opposite from what UB alums on this board think. It isn’t Buffalo that is the problem it’s UB and SUNY as a university that are snobby for Jerry Tarkanian type of UB basketball coach.
 

Buffalo sports fans would go wild with a Jerry Tarkanian type of basketball coach. Buffalo fans wearing Tark the Shark hats with UB Bulls basketball. It’s UB, SUNY and New York State that would have major issues with that if Jerry Tarkanian like coach and Bills Mafia was anything near UB athletics. Look at all the UB alums that couldn’t stand the last major attendance game at UB Stadium of the ranked Baylor Bears football team UB alums complaining about beer cans all over UB campus. Face it UB is just too snobby. I would welcome the party because I a Buffalonian but I am minority not the majority as a UB Bulls fan base among the Ivy Tower of UB.
 

If you want a taste of that you have to go South of Buffalo like the Buffalo Bills and St Bonaventure Bonnies basketball that do things like party atmosphere and NIL. UB isn’t ready and I don’t think they ever will be. Our only hope is the Bonnies basketball today the last light on for major college athletics of anything today in Western New York. The Bonnies who had the first million dollar head coach in Western New York history Mark Schmidt. NIL the first to do it fabulous Buffalo there is hope down there UB it’s just too snobby of a school you don’t see “Captain Beer Man” fun Buffalo things like that at UB oh our image whatever. UB takes itself much to seriously to ever be big in major college athletics. UB as a university is set up best for really not even Division III just no athletics at all just school that’s it. UB alums are too busy blaming the Buffalo fans for their own university UB shortcomings and failures. UB see itself as a learning institution not a place for athletics that has been one of the elephants in the room all along which is fine. It is easy to say let’s drop all athletics let those fools like BSF go back to the Buffalo Bills, Little Three basketball and we at UB will get back to educational pursuits of higher learning. I am not knocking it that is fine just stating I always got feeling within UB when there it was lukewarm at best for Division I athletics. I guess my point is I could see a place for both education and athletics with a Jerry Tarkanian head coach. All the educational folks have to do is look the other way but UB the school just really doesn’t believe that is part of there core university beliefs in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited February 28, 2023 by UB Horns Up

[BrooklynBull]

10 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:

Look at all the UB alums that couldn’t stand the last major attendance game at UB Stadium of the ranked Baylor Bears football team UB alums complaining about beer cans all over UB campus.

That was you, other than them alum part.  After the game you posted that your prior position on beer sales at UB football games was wrong.  You changed your mind and said that beer should not be sold at UB  games, not because of the litter, but because the students were too drunk that night.

[rma]

On 3/1/2023 at 5:40 AM, BrooklynBull said:

but because the students were too drunk that night.

I Strongly advise those who believe this to not attend the Wisconsin game this fall. 

[Old Bull]

On 2/28/2023 at 1:40 PM, UB Horns Up said:

The UB Stadium track is a major issue. As a Buffalo Bulls fan I want no part of anything besides the MAC because I am noting making the Marshall Thundering Head football mistake thinking this university UB is anything more athletically than a MAC as the way UB, New York State and SUNY are mentally wise towards athletics and Buffalo for that matter. I have a lot more to say on this subject because I think it’s the opposite from what UB alums on this board think. It isn’t Buffalo that is the problem it’s UB and SUNY as a university that are snobby for Jerry Tarkanian type of UB basketball coach.
 

Buffalo sports fans would go wild with a Jerry Tarkanian type of basketball coach. Buffalo fans wearing Tark the Shark hats with UB Bulls basketball. It’s UB, SUNY and New York State that would have major issues with that if Jerry Tarkanian like coach and Bills Mafia was anything near UB athletics. Look at all the UB alums that couldn’t stand the last major attendance game at UB Stadium of the ranked Baylor Bears football team UB alums complaining about beer cans all over UB campus. Face it UB is just too snobby. I would welcome the party because I a Buffalonian but I am minority not the majority as a UB Bulls fan base among the Ivy Tower of UB.
 

If you want a taste of that you have to go South of Buffalo like the Buffalo Bills and St Bonaventure Bonnies basketball that do things like party atmosphere and NIL. UB isn’t ready and I don’t think they ever will be. Our only hope is the Bonnies basketball today the last light on for major college athletics of anything today in Western New York. The Bonnies who had the first million dollar head coach in Western New York history Mark Schmidt. NIL the first to do it fabulous Buffalo there is hope down there UB it’s just too snobby of a school you don’t see “Captain Beer Man” fun Buffalo things like that at UB oh our image whatever. UB takes itself much to seriously to ever be big in major college athletics. UB as a university is set up best for really not even Division III just no athletics at all just school that’s it. UB alums are too busy blaming the Buffalo fans for their own university UB shortcomings and failures. UB see itself as a learning institution not a place for athletics that has been one of the elephants in the room all along which is fine. It is easy to say let’s drop all athletics let those fools like BSF go back to the Buffalo Bills, Little Three basketball and we at UB will get back to educational pursuits of higher learning. I am not knocking it that is fine just stating I always got feeling within UB when there it was lukewarm at best for Division I athletics. I guess my point is I could see a place for both education and athletics with a Jerry Tarkanian head coach. All the educational folks have to do is look the other way but UB the school just really doesn’t believe that is part of there core university beliefs in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

I really don't understnd this logic.

It is possible to have a great university and big time sports. The Big Ten is mostly that and that is where I come from. What I tried to convey is that most schools in the Big Ten grew with their athletic program decades ago. Students arrive at their school supporting sports as an integral part of their university experience. Many are legacy's and  as alumni support the programs well. UB on the other hand emerged from  a mid-sized private school with little or any public support and a SUNY system mostly hostile to athletics. I was around during the Kettter years and know he had no choice but to disband fooball. Decades later several Presidents came to UB knowing the the value of an intercollgiate program. Beginning with Nelson Townsend through Danny White , AD's with the vision to grow a program were hired. That vision now seems dimished nor is their an institutional ethos for continuation of that goal.

It will be very hard to grow a program at UB. Community support is frankly an afterthought. The Bills occupy the attention of almoast everyone. Frankly many of the Bills Mafia types ever set foot in a college. We really do not need or want them. What we do want is a revewed commitment freom the toip down and some new partners by elevating to a better conference.

[Sportsfan]

20 hours ago, Old Bull said:

I really don't understnd this logic.

It is possible to have a great university and big time sports. The Big Ten is mostly that and that is where I come from. What I tried to convey is that most schools in the Big Ten grew with their athletic program decades ago. Students arrive at their school supporting sports as an integral part of their university experience. Many are legacy's and  as alumni support the programs well. UB on the other hand emerged from  a mid-sized private school with little or any public support and a SUNY system mostly hostile to athletics. I was around during the Kettter years and know he had no choice but to disband fooball. Decades later several Presidents came to UB knowing the the value of an intercollgiate program. Beginning with Nelson Townsend through Danny White , AD's with the vision to grow a program were hired. That vision now seems dimished nor is their an institutional ethos for continuation of that goal.

It will be very hard to grow a program at UB. Community support is frankly an afterthought. The Bills occupy the attention of almoast everyone. Frankly many of the Bills Mafia types ever set foot in a college. We really do not need or want them. What we do want is a revewed commitment freom the toip down and some new partners by elevating to a better conference.

It is all based on winning.  Urban schools with Pro Teams will never have the fan base of state schools with no Pro Team, but win and plenty will show.

UB appears to lack the investment to really dominate and move up in competition.  Average MAC team isn't going to drive big attendance.

[promotherobot]

On 3/2/2023 at 11:53 PM, Old Bull said:

I really don't understnd this logic.

It is possible to have a great university and big time sports. The Big Ten is mostly that and that is where I come from. What I tried to convey is that most schools in the Big Ten grew with their athletic program decades ago. Students arrive at their school supporting sports as an integral part of their university experience. Many are legacy's and  as alumni support the programs well. UB on the other hand emerged from  a mid-sized private school with little or any public support and a SUNY system mostly hostile to athletics. I was around during the Kettter years and know he had no choice but to disband fooball. Decades later several Presidents came to UB knowing the the value of an intercollgiate program. Beginning with Nelson Townsend through Danny White , AD's with the vision to grow a program were hired. That vision now seems dimished nor is their an institutional ethos for continuation of that goal.

It will be very hard to grow a program at UB. Community support is frankly an afterthought. The Bills occupy the attention of almoast everyone. Frankly many of the Bills Mafia types ever set foot in a college. We really do not need or want them. What we do want is a revewed commitment freom the toip down and some new partners by elevating to a better conference.

I'll will keep beating this drum: You have to play an annual game at Highmark to get Bills fans to notice the program. If you could fill a bye week for the Bills I bet you'd get a great turnout.

[Old Bull]

I would agree.There are thousands of UB fans who just do not have the money to attend Bills games so a trip to Orchard Park is a special treat. I don't support taking more than  one game a year in OP but it is another way to give the program recongnition..  I also agree that winning is the key here. Produce winning football against quality opponents will turn thing around.

[DaBulls99]

What’s better than averaging 7,500 butts in seats in a 26,000 seat stadium? Getting 5,000 butts in seats in a 75,000 seat stadium and paying a pretty penny to do it while also losing concessions, parking, suite revenue and more. Genius!

[UB Horns Up]

On 3/2/2023 at 11:53 PM, Old Bull said:

I really don't understnd this logic.

It is possible to have a great university and big time sports. The Big Ten is mostly that and that is where I come from. What I tried to convey is that most schools in the Big Ten grew with their athletic program decades ago. Students arrive at their school supporting sports as an integral part of their university experience. Many are legacy's and  as alumni support the programs well. UB on the other hand emerged from  a mid-sized private school with little or any public support and a SUNY system mostly hostile to athletics. I was around during the Kettter years and know he had no choice but to disband fooball. Decades later several Presidents came to UB knowing the the value of an intercollgiate program. Beginning with Nelson Townsend through Danny White , AD's with the vision to grow a program were hired. That vision now seems dimished nor is their an institutional ethos for continuation of that goal.

It will be very hard to grow a program at UB. Community support is frankly an afterthought. The Bills occupy the attention of almoast everyone. Frankly many of the Bills Mafia types ever set foot in a college. We really do not need or want them. What we do want is a revewed commitment freom the toip down and some new partners by elevating to a better conference.

How are you growing UB Bulls football without them? I disagree UB needs them. If UB is the whole answer themselves explain how me and my brother in-law are long time 30 plus years UB seasons ticket holders he went to LeMoyne College and I went to Canisius College. I have no children he has three children with my sister two of his boys graduated from UB with honors the other is only 10 years old the oldest two have good paying jobs and don’t go to UB games yet they will drive to Cleveland or Toronto to watch NBA, MLB and MLS games. They are Buffalo Bills and Sabres fans they don’t go to UB football or basketball games even during the Nate Oats ranked team years? Explain that? Trust me UB needs any fan they can get. UB folded there football team in 1971 over $200,000 with a $95 million dollar budget in 1972 UB and New York State was heavily criticized in both newspapers the Buffalo Evening News and Buffalo Courier Express. They usually didn’t agree on much this case they agreed. The Buffalo market was much bigger Dr. Ketter took the easy way out in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[BrooklynBull]

3 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:

How are you growing UB Bulls football without them? I disagree UB needs them. If UB is the whole answer themselves explain how me and my brother in-law are long time 30 plus years UB seasons ticket holders he went to LeMoyne College and I went to Canisius College. I have no children he has three children with my sister two of his boys graduated from UB with honors the other is only 10 years old the oldest two have good paying jobs and don’t go to UB games yet they will drive to Cleveland or Toronto to watch NBA, MLB and MLS games. They are Buffalo Bills and Sabres fans they don’t go to UB football or basketball games even during the Nate Oats ranked team years? Explain that? Trust me UB needs any fan they can get. UB folded there football team in 1971 over $200,000 with a $95 million dollar budget in 1972 UB and New York State was heavily criticized in both newspapers the Buffalo Evening News and Buffalo Courier Express. They usually didn’t agree on much this case they agreed. The Buffalo market was much bigger Dr. Ketter took the easy way out in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Football was dropped by the students who funded it through fees.  That is democracy.

Ketter brought football back in 1977.  By the fall of 1977 there was talk of returning to Division I.

[Sportsfan]

On 12/11/2022 at 9:11 AM, Sportsfan said:

Buffalo =Top US Universities = Academic Ranking and Funding (see endowment image). 

Athletic Program = TBD

Since the Athletic Department has only been D1 for 20+ years, the donor base/ funding shouldn't be considered along the same lines as the general endowment, but it would really help them get to the next level if a few "big" donors appeared (outside of Murchie Family) to rocket the facilities to be aligned with Cincinnati, UConn, etc.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Sportsfan

[Sportsfan]

[121Merrimac]

Fire alarms don’t matter, I guess

[rma]

13 hours ago, Sportsfan said:

I think this is the football center, right?

[Sportsfan]

9 hours ago, rma said:

I think this is the football center, right?

Yes...all that would remain would be a major stadium improvements, but don't believe I have heard of any plans in the works.

[UB Horns Up]

The USF Bulls FBS AAC Group of Five are getting a $340 million dollar football stadium seats 35,000 opens in 2026 it was approved by the USF board of trustees. I am not saying anymore as a UB Bulls football fan because nothing more needs to be said.
 

Right now UB has a choice but the day’s going to come where the choice is made for UB athletics no more FBS G5 football at UB if nothing is done about UB Stadium. This isn’t a Buffalo fan problem this is a UB as a university what is there long range goal with football, Division I athletics in general I question long term at UB and New York State problem in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Sportsfan]

On 5/21/2023 at 8:45 AM, UBinMD said:

I have the same count. Definitely an interesting setup.

I think this season we will play thru Watson. BB stated last year she would have been the best player in the MAC, which is a bold statement. Hopefully with 16 options we can get at least 8 or 9 in a rotation. We have bigs now and lots of guards/forwards, so she should be able to mix and match based upon the opponents strengths and weaknesses. 

On a final note, all 5 of the former recruits found homes and good ones by my view. Boston College being the top and Wofford being the bottom with Marshall, Toledo and Bowling Green being the middle. Looks like they have picked decent recruits, unfortunately if didn’t work. We got some solid replacements though. Looking forward to the season and hopefully the coaching staff settles in.

I would tend to agree with you.  Doesn't seem that Athletics facilities investment at UB is a priority from the state or university.  Most of the investments (other than Fieldhouse) have been small, incremental steps, not a big leap forward.  Maybe lack of big dollar donors is the foundation of the investment gaps., but for the profile and endowment level of UB verse the rest of the MAC schools, you would think athletics would mirror the massive gaps between the schools.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Sportsfan