dutchcountry7
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Posts posted by dutchcountry7
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On 4/20/2024 at 9:43 AM, Blue03 said:
Anyone want to venture on to the conspiracy side and think they want to get rid of wrestling altogether? Either to save money or replace it with another sport, bringing baseball or men’s soccer back?
There are two sports that the boosters and alumni have been pushing for (but the admin has had no interest in)...
Men's Lacrosse and Men's Ice Hockey.
With the geographic footprint of the UB alumni base and where we recruit students these are two very popular sports. They are also two expensive sports to operate and there isn't any reason to believe that they would generate fan support that would help offset the costs.
As long as those two factions are fighting over which sport to add, you can guarantee that neither will be added. But if the supporters consolidated and got behind only one of the sports then it would be possible for there to be enough momentum to consider adding one of the sports and that would likely result in eliminating a current sport.
With the addition of UMass to the MAC, the MAC could start sponsoring Men's Ice Hockey as a conference sport. You need six schools for a conference and adding Buffalo (with Bowling Green, Miami-OH, UMass, & Western Michigan) the MAC would simply need one associate member and there are many available in Ice Hockey. This would give the MAC an auto-bid to the NCAA tournament. (Of course, the Pugulas would not be supportive as it would be increased competition for the Sabres.)
While the MAC sponsors Women's Lacrosse (Akron, CMU, EMU, Kent State with Association Members Detroit-Mecy, Robert Morris, & Youngstown State), there aren't any MAC Men's Lacrosse Schools. However, the sport is very popular within New York with many local D1 programs to play (Albany, Binghamton, Hobart, St. Bona, Syracuse, St. John's Hofstra, Stony Brook, Le Moyne, Cornell, Canisius, Iona, Manhattan, Marist, Siena, Long Island, Wagner, Army, Colgate).
The reality is that no sport will be successful at UB without the investment and fan support. And the leadership is only focused on one sport. The other successes are largely incidental.
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On 4/20/2024 at 9:43 AM, Blue03 said:
Anyone want to venture on to the conspiracy side and think they want to get rid of wrestling altogether? Either to save money or replace it with another sport, bringing baseball or men’s soccer back?
No.
The issue is simply that the admin needs a sport in the MAC to keep their minimum sponsorship requirement. Wrestling is that sport. But there is no requirement that you have to give any attention to the sport or make any investment in it.
ADMA and Co are just checking the box and are doing the absolute bare minimum required when it comes to wrestling. Over the years when resources have had to be pulled from somewhere to support the increased needs for football, sports like wrestling suffered. The previous staff was telling the admin they were doing less than the minimum required as their neglect was starting to impact the health of the athletes. That's when a change in staff was made. Can't have a staff complaining like that. From the admin's perspective, the staff should have been grateful they even had a program.
It's a smart move from the admin. Young coaches will overwork themselves and try to push through with promises of future investment that never comes. They have bought themselves some more years of neglect with a motivated young coach.
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18 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:
UB should have paid Nate Oats period to stay with all the success UB Bulls basketball had we could have been the Gonzaga of the MAC.
We did pay him! He was given a contract extension and a pay raise that was not funded. We had to fundraise for his raise because it was more than the athletic department could afford.
18 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:The heck with the $7 million dollar UB performance center that could have come later when the NCAA Tournament units were coming in yearly.
The Units aren't paid to UB. They are paid to the MAC and distributed to all of the schools in the MAC and used to fund the MAC Championships.
Also, the number one complaint from Oats was the lack of facilities. His salary wouldn't have been enough to keep him without facility upgrades. And since facilities aren't consumed annually like salaries are, the facilities are a necessary long term investment. The facilities serve the coaches who will be coaching today as well as five and 10 years from now.
18 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:Pass the hat and keep Nate Oats at UB is what should have happened and didn’t.
That is what happened.
That is how he got the raise and extension right before he left for Tuscaloosa. How much did you contribute to the fund?
18 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:Nate Oats wanted to stay in Western New York close to his home town of Michigan.
No, he didn't. He made it his home for a moment in time. But he wasn't staying long term. Buffalo isn't close to home.
18 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:Give Nate Oats a $7 million dollar contract he would have stayed.
Yes, you're right. It is a real head scratcher... Why didn't UB make Oats the 3rd highest paid basketball coach in the country in 2019? They should have just picked some notes from the money tree.
18 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:The Nate Oats situation was different from Bobby Hurley and Lance Leipold that had no intentions of staying in Western New York.
No, it isn't. Everyone talks the talk while they are in the position. And then when something better comes along they are gone.
18 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:Nate Oats really liked Buffalo and UB chose cheap which is why UB Bulls athletics will never be great or mirror anything like St Bonaventure Bonnies basketball with Mark Schmidt.
Ah... I get it. This is a troll. You're really a Bonnies fan.
18 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:UB Bulls fans valued Nate Oats UB heavy donors and UB the school itself not so much which is really sad.
Valued him with everything but their pocket book. But of course, you expect others to fund the program for you to enjoy.
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Anytime you add a team to the conference that is both in your geographic region and is historically at a level that would put them higher than the median program in the conference, you've got a massive win!
UMass to the MAC is great for UB basketball.
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This is big for UB. Conference game within easy travel distance for alums in the Capital Region and even down state.
UMass has some solid sports.
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On 2/18/2024 at 10:27 AM, Tee4three said:
JW was the modern day Reggie
You would compete year in year out but never actually win anything meaningful
Two things can be true, Jim getting too much heat from this board and it being the right time to move on from him
This is correct.
Reggie and JW both were solid MAC coaches. They could compete. But weren't likely to win anything of any significance. They were each a steady hand. Sometimes that is a good thing. But obviously we want more and after the Oats years it looked like a failure.
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44 minutes ago, rma said:
And that’s not even an accurate stereotype. Felisha Legette-Jack had a ton of energy on the sidelines and is quite a bit older than GH3. One year her energy, disagreement with the referees, or combination of both got her called for a rare technical foul.
Imagine the energy she would have shown if she was 20 years old and in that situation! ha ha
Yes, I agree with you. Not everyone slows down and has a more mellow demeanor with age. There are some pretty intense 70 year olds I know still running companies and demanding the VPs try to keep up.
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I am not too active on here... I tend to go weeks at a time without visiting and then spend a day engaging a lot before dropping off again. As a result, I don't know a lot of the drama from the board.
But the things I quickly picked up is that I have disagreed with @MuchMany a fair amount but he has always made his arguments in good faith and we ultimately want the same thing--the success of the programs... and @RapidsFan does not make good faith arguments and often tries to paint people as a bigots out of left field. @RapidsFan is new here as far as I know... so I am not sure if they are a troll or just some nieve young kid just getting exposed to the world and trying to champion social justice in every instance possible even when it isn't an issue... But this is one of many such examples... claiming someone is ageist because they don't think someone displays enough energy? ha ha Talk about a strawman... needing to paint the messenger as a bigot so you can try to undermine their arguments without addressing the issues and don't have to engage with them.
And for the record, I don't think a coach needs to display high energy on the sideline to be successful. Some do and are successful and some don't and are successful. There are some very successful coaches that many would label low energy out there in many different sports. It's also true that coaches, like all people, slow down with age so if one of your strengths as a coach was being high energy to motivate your players then that strength will diminish over time. It just happens that most coaches also develop many other skills over time that make the need to be high energy on the side line less significant.
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43 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:
Like another poster said, he was already out the door so it didn't matter.
If a guy gives 2 weeks notice and decides to yell "fuck this place" every working hour until he leaves, that's a reflection on the employer for letting things get that bad
What didn't matter? Maintaining relationships and keeping a connection to Buffalo?
How can you turn around and say Buffalo is the place for you after that?
I agree with your second comment about the employer. But it is also a reflection on the employer if they welcome that individual back. Especially when that individual is going around saying they have so many great offers that Buffalo would be lucky to have him.
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51 minutes ago, MuchMany said:
I see no scenario where Curtis Jones and Issac Jack don't leave for Iowa State and Dayton, respectively. Those options were there for them if JW stayed or not. Whatever small NIL bag UB has was not going to keep them here. Especially not after a poor year, "winning almost half their games."
That's the claim made by many when Oats left. People were saying that if Hodgson wasn't hired the whole team would transfer. They were wrong.
I agree that it was time to move on from JW but it is crazy for anyone to think that his players didn't love playing for him and the UB rosters were stable and largely free from transfers because the players wanted to stay with him.
JW likely would have had a higher performing team this year. I agree with that. But I also think it was time to move on. Though the process wasn't managed well because UB didn't understand the landscape and thought they had more to offer prospective coaches than they were actually willing to offer.
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2 hours ago, Chet said:
This is a relationship business and the fact that ADMA severed the relationship with the Oats years is poor judgement IMO. The FACT is that we cut ties to the greatest era in Bulls basketball history for GHIII and that decision appears to be an absolute joke.
Hodgson didn't seem concerned about maintaining relationships when he was burning bridges.
And I find your second comment funny.
Jim Whitesell was the continuation of the Oats era. You're picking one data point--Hodgson--and saying that if he isn't given the job then UB is turning their back on their history? What an asinine comment. Clearly hyperbole.
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41 minutes ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:
I have first hand knowledge from multiple people involved with the UB program that Hodgson was told he wasn't getting the head coaching job prior to him leaving with Oats. He told them he was going to Alabama if he didn't get the position. The fuss people have made over this is about semantics and a lack of information of things already known inside the program.
You mean in the time between Oats sitting in the athletic department staff meeting and then when the meeting ended immediately putting in his resignation before heading to the airport? That is when Hodgson had the sit down to talk about his prospect of taking over Buffalo and learned he wasn't going to get the job? All before he joined Oats at the airport?
I think you're off here.
Why else would Hodgson have told recruits not to come to Buffalo if he doesn't get the job if he didn't believe he was going to get the job?
Buffalo was blindsided by Oats' departure. There wasn't time to discuss the succession planning. You're mistaken and it always seems you're errors end up making Hodgson look better. Curious... when was the last time you communicated with Hodgson?
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Potentially better results in year one doesn't mean its a better hire for the program.
I am still of the opinion that Hodgson should not have been hired. And his performance at Arkansas State hasn't swayed my position. We have known he is a strong recruiter. That is why Oats felt it was so important to take him to Alabama on the private jet while he was still employed by Buffalo and have him talk with the players and recruits while in Tuscalusa. He has brought in talent to his new team but his team doesn't play well, just as @Tee4three has said. He has not shown he can coach and has spent hardly any time in his career coaching. He has always been a recruiter. We need a coach because we aren't going to be able to land and keep high level players in the program in the NIL era without looking the other way to behavior issues.
The risk was too great with Hodgson.Did we end up with the right coach? We won't know for some time. It's possible the ship gets turned around but its also possible we missed and didn't get the right hire.
Missing on a hire doesn't mean that Hodgson was the right hire. It just means he was one of many candidates that wasn't right for the job.
Like @DocCas86said, someone like Ben McCollum is what the program needs. Someone who can coach the game really well, get the most out of their players, and also can convince players that though they have offers from programs at a higher level they should play for him. None of those qualities Hodgson has shown except for landing players with offers to other programs.
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Remembered this article from last spring. Thought people might like it since it talks about Mid-Major NIL and gives some figures.
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On 12/13/2023 at 12:16 PM, trueblue32 said:
People keep saying this, but this isn't pro sports where we need to tank for a high draft pick. There is literally no reason that this team should be the worst in UB history by a wide margin. Is the idea that the recruiting gets easier after the mystery of what could be is gone and Halcovage is just a coach leading a team coming off of (what we can hope is) a 5 win season? Spoiler alert: even without a coaching change there is no guarantee that any of these players are here next year. We are not rebuilding anything currently. Next year Halcovage will be rebuilding from the depths that he has plummeted the program to. If he thinks rebuilding is recruiting off a 15 win season then he is about to find out what rebuilding is.
The question is what will be the new staff's strength?
Recruiting isn't likely to be because there is no money to buy players and you have to buy players in this new era. This is why a lot of coaches passed over the UB job. They may have taken it a few years prior but now they need a budget to pay players.
Which means UB needs to have someone that can coach up players. Nova did a great job of that so we hope to see that with the new staff. If we see progress throughout the season and the team is performing better come Feb and March then it will be a good foundation for the program moving forward.
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1 hour ago, RapidsFan said:
https://www.ubspectrum.com/article/2022/03/how-slaverys-power-dynamic-has-influenced-the-nfl
Yet the Combine, which is sometimes referred to as “the underwear Olympics,” shares distressing similarities with a slave auction. The participants — primarily people of color — are observed and examined by scouts and general managers, who are primarily white, and those white scouts are then the ones determining who is the fastest and strongest, and who can bring in the most money.
Slave-buyers were also found to pay attention to little details, such as speed and hand size, as they sought to purchase the enslaved human that could get the most work done in the shortest amount of time. Nowadays, as back then, the purchaser attempts to evaluate the longevity of the prospect.
These vulnerable college athletes are dying for their chance to prove themselves to capitalists to make it on the big screen, which makes them highly susceptible to the league’s imbalanced power dynamic.
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Year one of a rebuild... Let's see how this team looks in February. Lets see what players coming in over the summer.
The sky isn't always falling.
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43 minutes ago, everlast2504 said:
I still don't get why they just didn't keep JW on the "payroll" for those 4 weeks.
It may not have been an option within his contract. If his contact is specifically for the position of Head Coach of the program then moving him to another position would be a breach of contract. You can't simply require someone to do a different job they weren't hired to do when they have an employment contract specifying the job.
Also, the NCAA will only permit one head coach of a program at a time. There must be one, and only one, designated head coach. So you would have to put off the new coach taking over for four weeks.
When coaches move into an admin position, it is often based on a mutually benefitable agreement with the school--such as when the coach has really good relationships with donors that the school wants to retain and the coach doesn't want to relocate and is okay moving on from coaching.
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On 12/4/2023 at 4:28 PM, clodney said:
Not only that, he fired JW 4 weeks before the buyout would have dropped to $400k so we didn't even end up saving any money vs firing him a year earlier!
This was a big issue and one of my major complaints.
It was a complete mismanagement of the transition. It also displayed a huge misunderstanding of the coaching labor market.
You only pay the elevated buyout if you need to move quickly to secure a coach that won't be on the market long. But we couldn't do that. And we couldn't do that because the job wasn't as appealing as the admin thought it would be.
Coaching hires are not the main obligation of an AD and are done by committee with only a minority of the decision making coming from the AD. Though they tend to be given the credit and the blame for the hires since they are the ones that announce them and lead the department.
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On 11/5/2023 at 9:18 AM, rma said:
The red seats are not used for Siena games between 110-115 and 125-130. And the black seats are not set up in that configuration for Siena games either. There's about 4-6 rows of students and band on one side and on the other side it's donor seating (100 max). So okay, let's add a few hundred to the previous estimates, it doesn't change my point.
I could pull more data quantifying fan bases but at this point I'm not convincing you and you aren't convincing me. Go Bulls.
So now you agree that your figure for lower bowl seating was incorrect.
Rather than continuing with the back and forth where you start counting each individual seat and validating a body in the seat, I have to again say...
On 11/3/2023 at 4:20 PM, dutchcountry7 said:I am not really sure what your point in arguing all this is exactly... are you just trying to say that Siena doesn't have more fans that support their program than we do? Because that isn't debatable. They absolutely do.
We are talking about UB Basketball here.
My point is that Siena has more fan support. They get more buts in the seats than we get and they do it with an inferior product.
Are you trying to dispute that and say that UB gets more fans at games than Siena?
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22 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:
Can we stop arguing over Siena basketball attendance. Who cares?
Siena is an important model.
I have often felt that our marketing and fan engagement has missed the mark.
Why does Siena have so much support? It isn't simply the market. Because if that were the case then UAlbany would have a solid fan base. But they don't have the fan support in the same market.
It ruffled some feathers when I pointed out Siena's level of fan support. But it is a reality. I don't believe there is any reason UB can't have that support. But our administrations have often thought in seasons rather than years. When you have aspirations of using UB as a stepping stone you think about short term wins. While this can be great for things like making bold coaching hires that can really pay off, it also often results in a lack of long term investment in the fan base.
The reality is that you have to invest in your fan base and it is easier to do when you're at a school like Siena or St. Bona where a lot of people are intending to stay long term. At UB we get more ambitious professionals. And that can actually hold us back in some areas.
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23 hours ago, DocCas86 said:
I would be curious for theories as to why Siena has more support given they have a much smaller enrollment ~3,500 and the results for Siena have not been anything to write home about
They are projected by Kenpom to be eighth best in the MAAC for 2023-24, the second time in past three years.
I honestly don't know. They moved out of their on campus arena around 97. They had some good runs around the early 2000s but haven't been good in a while. They should have been losing fans over the last ten years. They have not had anywhere near the success of UB and they have had much more coaching turn over.
Their fans have been loyal.
It probably helps that it is a quality arena. So having a comfortable viewing experience and full-time food vendors likely give a better experience than they would be able to provide in their own arena.
The size of the venue and the ability to flex probably has been a real benefit too. Selling out a venue can actually hamper the fan experience by shutting would be fans out. They are able to flex their capacity by opening the upper level seating. So when there is a spike in draw they can accommodate those fans. It is likely that some of those fans will buy another ticket at another date due to the experience of the game they were able to get in to see.
They clearly do a really good job of keeping their fans interested and invested.
This was the point I was trying to make. While we want to excel and be playing in the NCAA tournament regularly, there has been a view expressed here often that if we aren't producing successful teams then we shouldn't expect people to come to the games.
I believe that is wrong. It is a problem to over sell the success and make that the reason to attend games. You're telling your prospective customers that they should be coming because of the rare high level performance. People will naturally be drawn to that. You don't need to sell that. What you sell is why they should come to a game. Period. Why they should come when the team is playing Saint John Fischer. Why you should come when they are below .500. You sell the experience. You build a community around that experience.
It is much easier to do this within a collegiate model than a pro-model because you have the identity with the school.
This is the reason people were upset with the branding of "New York" as they saw Buffalo as the local and school brand. But you need to sell the importance of that. If the School is Buffalo and you value your affiliation with Buffalo then you don't need to be successful to be able to show up and support your team.
Siena has found success with building a fan base that supports them even when they are not great. That's what we should have.
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5 hours ago, rma said:
The information comes directly from the bid that Albany county put out for the replacement of the seats.
I told you, these are the permanent seats not the full lower bowl.
5 hours ago, rma said:Don’t know how I can otherwise prove the seating capacity.
I told you how you can get the actual figures. Get the MVP Arena promoters packet. It has full documentation that will tell you what I am saying is accurate.
Since you didn't do that, I will do it for you.
The below image is the recommended basketball seating configuration for MVP Arena from page 39 of the arena's promoter's packet.
The seats in green are the permanent seats. The ones you were talking about being renovated. The seats in red as the expandable seats that augment the lower bowl's seating capacity and give flexibility to the arena's function. The back seats are additional floor seating that are added to the arena during basketball games.
The green seats (~6,000) with the red seats (~1,250) and the black seats (~600) is a little shy of 8,000 lower bowl seats, as I said.
5 hours ago, rma said:Yes I am. I’ve lived in both regions for over a decade. Siena has about as much local support as UAlbany does. But evidently they do a good job of marketing their brand online because of the whole premise of this back and forth.
Siena's basketball fan base is larger than Buffalo's. That is a fact. They draw more fans to their games regularly while being off campus and harder for students to get to the games. They also do it while putting an inferiors product on the floor. That is a testament to their fan base.
You may see more bumper stickers on cars that say UAlbany than Siena but that would be expected given the massive size difference. That however does not have anything to do with the people who pay money and show up to watch the basketball teams compete.
Siena has buts in the seats and those people pay for that privilege. They aren't getting tickets for free and showing up.
Damning Indictment of Administration
in Buffalo Bulls Other Sports
Posted
I am not sure if you saw former UB Ice Hockey player and assistant coach Tunney Murchie at wrestling matches.