DooleyBull06 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 1 hour ago, Chet said: Like many players on this roster, he’s a great depth piece on a good team. Made a few 3s this season, I wonder if, wherever he lands they will try to make him a big who steps out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 55 minutes ago, bullsbball said: Kanye Jones is also listed. No surprise there. He quit on the team in Game 9, so buh-bye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Here are my thoughts: definitely gone: Kanye, Joe, Sy, Isaiah definitely staying: Sabol, Wilson, Boldin, McVeigh on the fence: Graham, Fulcher, Williamson 3 incoming so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuchMany Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 5 hours ago, Chet said: The number of recruits brought in by this staff that are not rated by the recruiting services is shocking. I was at a game about a month ago when I told the person next to me that I could beat McVeigh one on one. Truth is he’d beat me 9 out of 10, but I could get him once. The difference between the types of athletes and players today compared to the golden era is stark. Eh, they were picking from leftovers last year having to start recruiting in April. There was no way to get highly rated recruits at that point. Whitesell didn't have anything incoming either. This year's class is unique, with guys outside the traditional circuits/rankings. Like Tee4 said, Jackson is highly regarded in Canada even though he hasn't broken through into American rankings. We have no reputation leftover from the "Golden Years" to recruit off of and no NIL to give out. Outside-the-box recruiting is going to be our norm for a while, gotta hope our staff can pick some gems and hold them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuchMany Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 5 hours ago, Chet said: Like many players on this roster, he’s a great depth piece on a good team. I'd say he's a solid rotational player on a average/bad team imo. He's really not much more than a volume rebounder without the bulk to seriously guard opponent's bigs. Offense really isn't there to be more than that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuchMany Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) Adams to the portal Edited March 26 by MuchMany 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 28 minutes ago, MuchMany said: Adams to the portal I am shocked... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblue32 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 32 minutes ago, MuchMany said: Adams to the portal He'll transfer to a better program and play well in an off-ball role that suits him, and people on this board will act like he had a miraculous improvement rather than reflect on the pile of garbage that Halcovage put on the court next to him this season. Edited March 26 by trueblue32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 34 minutes ago, trueblue32 said: He'll transfer to a better program and play well in an off-ball role that suits him, and people on this board will act like he had a miraculous improvement rather than reflect on the pile of garbage that Halcovage put on the court next to him this season. I will be very surprised if he ends up with a "good team". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, trueblue32 said: He'll transfer to a better program and play well in an off-ball role that suits him, and people on this board will act like he had a miraculous improvement rather than reflect on the pile of garbage that Halcovage put on the court next to him this season. His two season at UB were very similar. Shot worse this year. Had more assist this year. I think we just expected more from him and he didn’t live up to that. We expected a star. And he’s just a role player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblue32 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 11 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said: His two season at UB were very similar. Shot worse this year. Had more assist this year. I think we just expected more from him and he didn’t live up to that. We expected a star. And he’s just a role player. That's fine, that's always what he was. Anybody expecting a 3 year 3 & D wing to seamlessly transition to point forward in his 4th year with the least talent in UB history to support him are just day dreaming. Halcovage and fans included. It'll be what he does at a high level on a better team next year. 3rd leading scorer on the #6 team in the MAC in 2023 to "star" was never a realistic expectation. People can huff & puff about senior leaders (or whatever) but not understanding what Adams was is a failure on the staff, not on Adams Edited March 26 by trueblue32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuchMany Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 4 minutes ago, trueblue32 said: That's fine, that's always what he was. Anybody expecting a 3 year 3 & D wing to seamlessly transition to point forward in his 4th year with the least talent in UB history to support him are just day dreaming. Halcovage and fans included. It'll be what he does at a high level on a better team next year. 3rd leading scorer on the #6 team in the MAC in 2023 to "star" was never a realistic expectation. People can huff & puff about senior leaders (or whatever) but not understanding what Adams was is a failure on the staff, not on Adams For the 2020 Mr. Basketball from a state as elite as Florida to not figure out how to star in the MAC as a junior or senior under two different coaches is absolutely a failure on Adams part, but that's not the main point of this conversation. Re: expectations for next year, I don't think he'll match the contributions of a younger Curtis Jones on a team anywhere near as good as Iowa State. Adams is a fine player, but he hardly has any killer instinct or alpha traits. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblue32 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 20 minutes ago, MuchMany said: For the 2020 Mr. Basketball from a state as elite as Florida to not figure out how to star in the MAC as a junior or senior under two different coaches is absolutely a failure on Adams part, but that's not the main point of this conversation. Re: expectations for next year, I don't think he'll match the contributions of a younger Curtis Jones on a team anywhere near as good as Iowa State. Adams is a fine player, but he hardly has any killer instinct or alpha traits. I mean yeah if we just wanna close our eyes and pretend we don't have any data on what Isaiah Adams was in the 3 years between high school and now then sure. Good news everyone! We're going far this year! James Graham was a projected second round pick out of high school https://247sports.com/Player/james-graham-46058803/high-school-225312/ We haven't learned anything about him between the time that assessment was placed on him and now so this is the best analysis we can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 30 minutes ago, MuchMany said: For the 2020 Mr. Basketball from a state as elite as Florida to not figure out how to star in the MAC as a junior or senior under two different coaches is absolutely a failure on Adams part, but that's not the main point of this conversation. Re: expectations for next year, I don't think he'll match the contributions of a younger Curtis Jones on a team anywhere near as good as Iowa State. Adams is a fine player, but he hardly has any killer instinct or alpha traits. Let's be honest, if the transfer rules of today were in place when GH3 took over, Adams, Sy and Jo would all have been gone. They figured they may as well stay and do whatever they wanted like the JW system worked versus having to sit out a year. It didn't work, and the odds of it actually working were low. They were really not made for system basketball, so we got to see no system basketball because there were not enough players to buy in. Neither players nor staff adapted so what we got was a 3 win team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuchMany Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 9 minutes ago, trueblue32 said: I mean yeah if we just wanna close our eyes and pretend we don't have any data on what Isaiah Adams was in the 3 years between high school and now then sure. Good news everyone! We're going far this year! James Graham was a projected second round pick out of high school https://247sports.com/Player/james-graham-46058803/high-school-225312/ We haven't learned anything about him between the time that assessment was placed on him and now so this is the best analysis we can do. A+ snark. Unfortunately, Adams committed to UB 2 calendar years after being named Mr. Basketball. Hardly enough time for your "data" to prove anything. He was a disappointment here based on expectations, end of story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineBull Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Any body willing to defend Adams is not watching the game close enough. Adams (and Chatman) let this team down tremendously last season. Adams is one of the most selfish players to ever play at UB. He was second in the conference in turnovers per game and he had the worst shot selection of any player I have ever seen at UB. His effort on the defensive end (and rebounding) was laughable at best. This program is in a much better place with him (and Chatman) gone. I wish him the best and good riddance. I personally like what I am seeing for recruits coming in. I think this is going to be a slow build to get where coach wants this program to be. We all need to be willing to commit to that, as clearly the University and Admin have. I think that is what they were sold on when HGIII was hired. I have a feeling we will next see some experience added to the roster thru the portal, likely a PG and Big. I think we can start to see an identity forming around, unselfish players that are willing to work, stay loyal to a program for 4 years and are solid defenders who can shot and are willing to be unselfish for the benefit of the team. I like this mold and am willing to be patient to see it built. Like BB, in year 2, I suspect to see a big jump, year 3 should be when things really get rolling. I think looking back the coaches will reflect and understand the mistake they made last was to allow the players to return from Whitesell's teams. Would have been better to clean the cupboard and start over. Tere is a very stark difference in the type of player HGIII and staff covet versus those that Whitesell recruited here and more importantly there is a big difference in the system they play both offensively and defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblue32 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 8 minutes ago, MuchMany said: A+ snark. Unfortunately, Adams committed to UB 2 calendar years after being named Mr. Basketball. Hardly enough time for your "data" to prove anything. He was a disappointment here based on expectations, end of story. Based on your expectations that you made up? Did you watch his sophomore season at UCF? Or even bother to look at his stats? The only offensive statistic he didn't improve (significantly) in year one at UB was assist rate? Edited March 26 by trueblue32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 6 minutes ago, MaineBull said: Any body willing to defend Adams is not watching the game close enough. Adams (and Chatman) let this team down tremendously last season. Adams is one of the most selfish players to ever play at UB. He was second in the conference in turnovers per game and he had the worst shot selection of any player I have ever seen at UB. His effort on the defensive end (and rebounding) was laughable at best. This program is in a much better place with him (and Chatman) gone. I wish him the best and good riddance. I personally like what I am seeing for recruits coming in. I think this is going to be a slow build to get where coach wants this program to be. We all need to be willing to commit to that, as clearly the University and Admin have. I think that is what they were sold on when HGIII was hired. I have a feeling we will next see some experience added to the roster thru the portal, likely a PG and Big. I think we can start to see an identity forming around, unselfish players that are willing to work, stay loyal to a program for 4 years and are solid defenders who can shot and are willing to be unselfish for the benefit of the team. I like this mold and am willing to be patient to see it built. Like BB, in year 2, I suspect to see a big jump, year 3 should be when things really get rolling. I think looking back the coaches will reflect and understand the mistake they made last was to allow the players to return from Whitesell's teams. Would have been better to clean the cupboard and start over. Tere is a very stark difference in the type of player HGIII and staff covet versus those that Whitesell recruited here and more importantly there is a big difference in the system they play both offensively and defensively. You took the words right out of my mouth. Unselfish players will be the key. They need to act as one on offense and defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblue32 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 6 minutes ago, MaineBull said: Any body willing to defend Adams is not watching the game close enough. Adams (and Chatman) let this team down tremendously last season. Adams is one of the most selfish players to ever play at UB. He was second in the conference in turnovers per game and he had the worst shot selection of any player I have ever seen at UB. His effort on the defensive end (and rebounding) was laughable at best. This program is in a much better place with him (and Chatman) gone. I wish him the best and good riddance. Adams played more minutes on last year's 15 win team than he did on this year's 4 win team. Saying that the program is better with all 3 D1 players we had no longer on the roster is the most needlessly contrarian bullshit I've ever seen. When there's no fans at the games next year enjoy yelling that at an empty seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 4 minutes ago, trueblue32 said: Based on your expectations that you made up? Did you watch his sophomore season at UCF? Or even bother to look at his stats? The only offensive statistic he didn't improve (significantly) in year one at UB was assist rate? Just to be clear, you are arguing that he wasn't a disappointment and that it was in fact the coaching staff that let him down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblue32 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Just now, UBinMD said: Just to be clear, you are arguing that he wasn't a disappointment and that it was in fact the coaching staff that let him down? This year yes. Is your argument that Halcovage set him up to succeed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Just now, trueblue32 said: This year yes. Is your argument that Halcovage set him up to succeed? My argument is that from the time he stepped foot on the court this season, he was out to put up whatever numbers he could regardless of what that meant to the team or the win column. I think he was a turnover machine. I think that once AJ and Sabol started having some growth in their game he intentionally did not pass them the ball. I believe his defense was non-existent. If a player will not buy in to a coaches philosophy, the coach can either suck up a lost season or bench them completely. In hindsight, I wouldn't be surprised if GH3 chose the benching. However, he has hours of video to show his future teams as to how NOT to play team basketball. As to your total minutes item, he averaged 33 mpg this year and 29.7 mpg last year. He missed several games due to injury, so he would likely have surpassed that. I only mention that as you seem to be implying that GH3 failed to not play him enough this year. 22.8% on 3-Pointers with 149 attempts is deplorable for a Senior. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineBull Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 minutes ago, trueblue32 said: Adams played more minutes on last year's 15 win team than he did on this year's 4 win team. Saying that the program is better with all 3 D1 players we had no longer on the roster is the most needlessly contrarian bullshit I've ever seen. When there's no fans at the games next year enjoy yelling that at an empty seat I think you need to get a better understanding of the game of basketball and how to be successful at it. I can tell you that the games of Adams and Chatman are not in the recipe for success, they are players on bad teams that can put up solid numbers nothing more. The game is won on the defensive side of the ball and Adams and Chatman were two of the worst defenders in the country last year. There are no numbers needed to back that up. We all watched each game painlessly watching Adams playing lazy defense (especially on the glass) and Chatman trying to break the school record for blocked shots by going after everything and goaltending constantly all while lazily getting back on defense. Adams led the team in assists yes, but his passing and ball movement in the flow of the offense are sub par, cause he is a selfish player. We all saw it, we all witnessed the insanity that was his game last season. It was awful to watch. He is a low level mid major player and he should be the third or fourth option on that team, that is his role and in that setting, I agree he could be successful potentially. UB is better off with those two players gone, anyone who feels otherwise needs to get a better understanding of how basketball is meant to be played. I am not lumping Jo into this mix as I felt differently about his game. He worked hard and was on an island on the glass last season with no one willing to help him. His game on the offensive end does not translate at this level, he is too small and frail to be a big with his back to the basket and he does not have the offensive tools to play on the perimeter, his handle is too weak. I will miss Jo and thank him for all of his effort the last 2 seasons. I wish him nothing but the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineBull Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 4 minutes ago, UBinMD said: My argument is that from the time he stepped foot on the court this season, he was out to put up whatever numbers he could regardless of what that meant to the team or the win column. I think he was a turnover machine. I think that once AJ and Sabol started having some growth in their game he intentionally did not pass them the ball. I believe his defense was non-existent. If a player will not buy in to a coaches philosophy, the coach can either suck up a lost season or bench them completely. In hindsight, I wouldn't be surprised if GH3 chose the benching. However, he has hours of video to show his future teams as to how NOT to play team basketball. As to your total minutes item, he averaged 33 mpg this year and 29.7 mpg last year. He missed several games due to injury, so he would likely have surpassed that. I only mention that as you seem to be implying that GH3 failed to not play him enough this year. 22.8% on 3-Pointers with 149 attempts is deplorable for a Senior. Well said and spot on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblue32 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 minutes ago, UBinMD said: My argument is that from the time he stepped foot on the court this season, he was out to put up whatever numbers he could regardless of what that meant to the team or the win column. I think he was a turnover machine. I think that once AJ and Sabol started having some growth in their game he intentionally did not pass them the ball. So your hypothesis is that the freshmen who were already below average offensively on microscopic usage, and additionally posted pitiful assist rates had a lot of offensive potential that Adams was simply choosing not to tap into. Even though in 3 years of D1 experience that was not descriptor of Adams at any point? 7 minutes ago, UBinMD said: As to your total minutes item, he averaged 33 mpg this year and 29.7 mpg last year. He missed several games due to injury, so he would likely have surpassed that. I only mention that as you seem to be implying that GH3 failed to not play him enough this year. 22.8% on 3-Pointers with 149 attempts is deplorable for a Senior. No that wasn't what I was implying. I was implying that he played major minutes on multiple D1 basketball teams that didn't contend for bottom 15 in the country. If you want to argue that Adams actually got worse as a basketball player this year my question would be what did Halcovage break because he was doing fine prior. He posted 1.4 win shares last year vs. -0.1 this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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