Bluebird96 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) Valiant effort by UB tonight. It was a thoroughly entertaining game to watch if a little frustrating at times as Toledo couldn’t seem to miss, whether it was wide open shots or contested. They’re not the best shooting and highest scoring team in the MAC by accident. Bulls shot above their averages, 47% FG, 41% from 3 and 75% FT. 21 assists on 29 makes, and only 13 turnovers. Toledo is just a better and deeper team right now and I think will give Kent a run for their money in March. Edited January 21, 2023 by Bluebird96 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 So I guess we take from tonight a moral victory? I agree with most when it’s said that the regular season is about securing a trip to Cleveland and continuing to grow and develop the potential we have. However, when will we show anything defensively? @Erie Countysaid it best…we play no defense. It’s not and never was a trademark of Whitesell. Yet another big game loss on his ledger. At home too. We need to start winning some of these games against the league’s better half, bc that puts an awful lot of pressure on us to win games against the bottom half. And we’ve already lost to CMU and Miami. The offense was good enough to win tonight. But it was a wasted effort bc of the lack of defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuchMany Posted January 21, 2023 Author Share Posted January 21, 2023 20 minutes ago, enrique14150 said: This was the first game of the season that my voice got hoarse from yelling. I had fun tonight - I hope you did too. Well said. Toledo is a tough, skilled, detailed team with fourth-year Shumate and Dennis. We played them close and kept it within striking distance, just short-circuited on offense late with a couple charges and missed deep threes. Toledo is a top ten offense in the country, we were never going to "stop them" and it wasn't a matter of "playing no defense." Toledo doesn't play any defense either, we just failed to outscore them. Thought Whitesell had some poor moments especially getting burned on stuff out of timeouts. Our rebuilding year roster that's set to lose only two guys is 3-3 in the MAC and should probably be 4-2 - still on track for the 10 wins most predicted. That doesn't feel like the end of the world but others clearly feel differently. We can still be dangerous in Cleveland with our pace and talent, but we need to develop our bench more (even at the risk of dropping a couple extra games). Our main guys played 38 minutes tonight and looked gassed. Not sure why Kanye Jones didn't see any time after shooting well last game. The guys I brought all enjoyed watching some pretty high level hoops at Alumni, even with our sleepy old crowd sitting on it's hands. Upcoming schedule is a bit daunting, but on to the next. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sportsfan Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 9 hours ago, enrique14150 said: It kills me a little to think, though, if the band and students were back, if this place was an absolute snake pit tonight, could that have rattled Toledo? Enough to make the difference down the stretch? Come on, athletic department, get to work. You too True Blue, where the heck have you been? Why does UB have the crazy start of classes schedule for students? Most universities return from Winter break in early January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulls2684 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Sportsfan said: Why does UB have the crazy start of classes schedule for students? Most universities return from Winter break in early January. It’s moving a week earlier starting next year https://www.ubspectrum.com/article/2022/10/faculty-senate-executive-committee-begins-process-to-add-fall-break-in-2023-24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrique14150 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 I disagree with the "no defense" comment. I think the defensive workrate and intensity is miles ahead of last year. I will agree with those who say, the end product isn't consistent. Just giving up fewer points, I agree that would be an ideal thing too. Rebounds and turnovers were about even last night. In the BG game, they held them to 35% shooting. CMU shot 44% the game before, and UB beat them on the boards 51-38. They held Northern to 38% shooting and outrebounded them 50-28. They held Ohio to 37% shooting and had 10 steals. I do think that when this team clamps down the defense, that's the key aspect to when they go on a run and take over a game. The guards are active on the perimeter, it's a matter of consistently boxing out. I thought last night the defense was in the right position a lot but Toledo just hit a lot of contested shots. Some of the most frustrating things to watch in basketball are the ticky-tack fouls where the guy barely touched the shooter, but technically the call is right. And the guys that drive to the net and fling themselves in the general direction of the hoop and get a call. I think a lot of fouls happen because the defender/defense was late reacting to what was happening and thus was out of position. I think Isaac Jack has gotten a lot better defensively this season, he was fouling guys because of that early and now he's fighting more for rebounds and getting in better spots. People would rather see shootouts than defensive slugfests. More running the floor than half-court offenses at a walking pace. I think that goes both ways - it means more turnovers, more times you're caught out of shape in transition. If you're going to fire more early shots, that means you're not going to have guys set underneath for rebounds. I've also been impressed that this group has been able to switch between man defense and a zone at times, depending on the opponent and situation, and used that effectively. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) We allow 77 points per game. In our 3 conference losses we’ve allowed well over 80. I understand wanting to get up and down but here’s the thing…we don’t shoot well enough or consistently enough and we turn the ball over too much to be in track meets with opposing teams. CMU may have shot 44% and we out rebounded them but we lost the game. Bc we couldn’t get a stop on the final play of regulation. Gave up a lay up! I rather see wins. At any cost. If it means we score 70 points a game and slow down the pace slightly to cut turnovers down then so be it. Things go hand in hand. A bad shot can lead to a run out for the opposing team. Poor rebound leading to second chances. So on. I’ve often said this team needs to slow down. I’m not saying Wisconsin slow but we need to slow down. And if we play better defense we will play exciting basketball bc we will have run outs and fast breaks. It starts on the defensive end. Right now our best way to win is hoping the other team has an off night shooting. That’s not good basketball. Our offense was good enough to win last night but the defense wasn’t. Plain and simple. That was one of our better offensive games and we lost. As I said in my last post. We gotta find a way to win 1, wishful thinking 2 of the next 3 games against the league’s top teams. Otherwise we face must win games against the league’s middle. Just to claw into a bottom seed for Cleveland. Right now we stand at 3-3 in 5th. But come the end of the month we could be 3-6 on the outside looking in. I haven’t seen signs that suggest we can get a stop when needed. I’ve seen progress offensively but not defensively. Edited January 21, 2023 by DooleyBull06 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 12 hours ago, markchicago said: Enrique- good assessment This was a good game- entertaining and most competitive. Toledo is a good team. We will continue to improve Lets enjoy the journey Go Bulls I agree, Even though we lost it was a very entertaining and competitive game. Toledo is a very good team and never seemed to get rattled at all, It was a combination at times of us not playing very good defense and when we did Toledo still came up with shots that went in. It probably did hurt with Powell in constant foul trouble and Smith in early foul trouble that hurt our depth. Right now we look like a middle of the pack team and it could change if we can just win some road games.The marketing and the true blue support are very poor and this administration neither looks like they want to spend money or even earn their paychecks by working their tails off to market this team. There should be promotions for every home game to get more fans at games. Our great years with Hurley, Oats and Jack with so much success and national exposure those teams sold and marketed themselves and the administration almost hardly had to do anything. That is not the case anymore . When the students come back will they support this team will be the question?? Go Bulls!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Just touching on the marketing and promotion of things…our social media imprint has to be better. For us older ppl we don’t care but it’s what drives the younger generation. Last night there were only 2, other than the pregame, half and final tweet, in game tweets. 2! In an entertaining game. Nothing in game on IG. Unacceptable. Nothing basketball related since Jan 4th on the UBathletics IG. This is a small free way of marketing and promoting. Here’s an idea also…Victor E should have his own social handles. In which he gets into all sorts of fun stuff. Sounds silly but it’s what the kids want. Basic stuff we should be doing for all our athletic teams. Not just basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrique14150 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) Dooley - agree with you that they have to allow fewer PPG. Agree with you that it's about winning, however the best way to do that is. I do think this squad is better equipped to play at a higher pace than the last group. When I said "people would rather see shootouts", that's in reference to the significant portion of the fanbase that had enough of the plodding, careful Reggie-ball. For point of comparison, the 2018-19 Bulls averaged 46% shooting and held opponents to 42%. Outrebounded teams 40-37. 16.6 assists per game and 12 turnovers. Allowed 70.8 PPG. This year's team so far is averaging 46% shooting and holding opponents to 43%. Outrebounding opponents 38-36. Averaging 15.6 assists and 14.8 turnovers. Allowing, as you said, 77.6 PPG. Both of these teams rank nationwide offensively in field goal attempts and near the bottom in number of field goal attempts allowed - I think that's a matter of the style they play. I think the slightly higher turnover number this year is a result of a new group of guys who haven't played together yet as long as that legendary team did. The 18-19 team didn't allow as many foul shots as this one does - I think this team plays hard, and it's a high risk/reward - active on defense, but giving up a lot of fouls. What this tells me is they need to get better at some little things - foul shooting, positioning so as to not foul - but maybe statistically they're not as far off as we think. How do they shave off 7 points per game defensively - fewer trips to the foul line? 2018-19 Buffalo Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com 2022-23 Buffalo Bulls Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com Edited January 21, 2023 by enrique14150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 @enrique14150 I absolutely love your post game break downs and positive mentality. And yes I agree with you and think on a lot of points that you are right. How do we cut down 7 points? It’s a combo of things. As you said better rebounding, defending without fouling and yes playing better team defense. But ultimately I think if this team can find the right pace of play balance it will be better in the long run. I’m not asking them to be a half court team but there are many times throughout games where we are too loosey goosey. One hand feeds the other. If we are gonna be just an average defensive team then we better not turn the ball over as much as we do. Perhaps on defense instead of risking it and finding oneself out of position (resulting in a foul or defensive break down) we need to lock in for a full shot clock. Make the other team grind and then not allow a second chance opportunity. February will be when we start to show who we are. I’m just afraid these next 3 games could put us in a hole too deep to climb out of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB92 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 A good (and continuing) game thread with almost all the discussion (even when there is a difference of opinion) about performance, strategy, etc. I like it. My two cents: Toledo was just the better team. We did play hard, but we’re out of position a few times on defense and that cost us. They also hit a few contested shots. On to the next one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sportsfan Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 22 hours ago, bulls2684 said: It’s moving a week earlier starting next year https://www.ubspectrum.com/article/2022/10/faculty-senate-executive-committee-begins-process-to-add-fall-break-in-2023-24 Still don't understand the "Why". Seems like a unique idea to have a session in the middle of winter break. Students don't need 40 days off between semesters. Edited January 22, 2023 by Sportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullsbball Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) UB faded late in the second half. Short bench (only play 8 with Smith only getting 2 minutes) and they just rain out of gas. Why no Ceaser, Madding, or Kanye? At the 9:01 mark, UB was down only 1 point (68-67). By the 1:37 mark, they were down 10 (86-76). During that time, Toledo was shooting lights out and getting rebounds: FG2 7-10 (4-6 in the paint, 2-4 layups and a dunk) FG3 1-1 FT 1-3 TO-3 DRB-5 ORB-1 While UB was fading and missing clutch 3s: FG2 2-5 (1-4 in the layups/paint) FG3 1-4 FT 2-2 TO-3 DRB-3 ORB-0 Curtis Jones went 1-5 during that time. As the announcers said on the radio (postgame), Toledo was flooding the paint making it hard for UB to penetrate. But UB did manage to get 42 points in the paint (vs 36 for Toledo). Very physical in the paint and not many foul calls down low. Interesting layup stats for both teams: Toledo Buffalo 1st Half: 8-13 9-21 2nd Half: 5-11 8-13 Total: 13-24 17-34 A lot of layup attempts by UB in the first half and better defense on the layup (attempts and made) by UB in the second half. UB had several offensive (charging) fouls in their desire to drive the basket. UB did good when they could get the fast break (23 vs 2). From an entertainment point of view, I didn't think the game was very exciting. The crowd got into it once in the second half after a steal and a quick 3 but otherwise there wasn't much to cheer for. Edited January 22, 2023 by bullsbball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChubbyHubby Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I honestly thought that the crowd was louder than I expected for its size. Especially with no student section or band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Full disclosure, I am not a Bills fan in any way, shape or form. I went to UB and love UB, but not the Bills. Seeing the crazy reactions to this loss, firing coaches, Josh Allen went from Superman to trash, Beane has gone from the prototype for GMs to one of the dumbest of all times. I guess I now better understand the reason a lot of these posts end up the way they do. It's ok to be disappointed in a loss, but to jump all over everyone, want to fire/cut everyone is not the solution. Why would a FA want to sign here after seeing this display? We need to enjoy the game and the process and support who we have. If and when changes happen, we need to support them too. Take a step back and put things in perspective. It was a matter or weeks when one of the most horrific things happened on a football field to Hamlin, those vibes of togetherness was way better than the negativity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullsbball Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Did I accidently join a Bills forum? As if the Bulls discussion wasn't depressing enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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