Women's Basketball Limps into February

[1975]

On 2/4/2023 at 5:53 PM, dj_paige said:

So UB loses by 10 today to Northern Illinois, getting badly out-rebounded 51–25, and NIU's center A'jah davis picks up 21 rebounds, 18 points and shoots 8-for-10. What choice does UB head coach Becky Burke have here? Essentially, none. There is no one on the bench (until Salmons returns) that she can put on the floor that would provide better rebounding or better interior defense. And so, when the season began, and we had a team with lots of names that we didn't know, it still looked like a big front line by MAC standards, but then injury to Kiara Johnson, and the absence of Ronni Nwora, and the (hopefully temporary) absence of Kayla Salmons, and suddenly we've got no effective big players. Hattie Ogden, despite being 6-2, has been effective from the perimeter recently, but not on defense in the paint, and hasn't demonstrated any strong rebounding abilities. So the bad news is we're stuck with what we have right now, and that has major weaknesses. The optimism of early January is gone, and I think there's no real solution. I'm not trying to blame Becky Burke here, she was, and is, in a tough situation that wasn't of her making.

As an aside…the all-woman officiating crew was a refreshing change from the stale, piss-poor (some say biased) refs we usually see in AA…very few “marginal” fouls were called (and I was glad to see a usually overlooked “3 second lane violation” draw a whistle). 

[John]

43 minutes ago, 1975 said:

As an aside…the all-woman officiating crew was a refreshing change from the stale, piss-poor (some say biased) refs we usually see in AA…very few “marginal” fouls were called (and I was glad to see a usually overlooked “3 second lane violation” draw a whistle). 

It was a definite change and we thought they called a decent game with not too many fouls for three quarters but then is usually the case the game is called different in the 4th quarter in most games. 

[dj_paige]

I'm going to have to disagree with the comments that the all-female ref crew was any different than the previous home game, a 3 pt loss to Bowling Green. In the BG game there were 2 male officials, and they called 11 fouls on UB all game. Why? Did it have anything to do with the gender of the officials? Of course not. The reason there were only 11 fouls on UB against BG and only 14 the other day against NIU was that head coach Becky Burke has told her team to be less aggressive on defense, because we can't afford to have players foul out. Similarly, we are not aggressive on the boards, again because we don't want players fouling out. In both games, the refs called the game appropriately, there were simply not a lot of fouls to call.

Also, when a team is less aggressive on defense, its a lot easier for the refs to get the calls right (i.e. fewer mistakes or questionable calls).

Also, the lead official in the game against NIU, Maggie Tiernan (you might remember) called an intentional foul on Teresa Onwuka with about 2 seconds left in double overtime (before the ball was alive) with Central Michigan ahead by 1 in early 2020 (when Central Michigan/UB rivalry was the best in the MAC). Did she do this because of her gender? I doubt it. Would a male official have made the same call? Yes I think so. https://www.ubbullrun.com/2020/1/30/21116045/wbb-about-that-intentional-foul-with-2-seconds-left-in-2ot-against-cmu

[CheerUB80/84]

3 hours ago, dj_paige said:

And now I have figured out how to block someone here at UBFan. So UB Horns Up is now blocked, and I will never see his posts again. 👦 If you'd like to do this yourself, go to the top of the screen, click on your user name, a drop-down menu appears and you can then select Ignored Users. From there, select any user you wish to ignore. 

High fives gratefully accepted!

I blocked him as a Christmas gift to myself.  Now if we can get everyone else to block him so I do not read his stupidity when other people quote him to mock him. 

[bullsbball]

On 2/6/2023 at 3:35 PM, dj_paige said:

Yes, I agree that Salmons has not put up big numbers, but I think some of the things she does will not show up in the box score. She boxes out. She takes up space on defense, opposing players decide not to shoot over her. The NIU center, in my opinion, wouldn't have had such an outstanding game if a player like Salmons was on the court. And she does score when the guards get her the ball, pick and roll or similar type of plays. But will she solve the team's problems? A little certainly, but other problems aren't going away.

I assume Salmons is not longer on the team since she no longer appears on UB Women's Roster. 

So very sad that we can barely field a team.

[bullsbball]

52 minutes ago, dj_paige said:

The reason there were only 11 fouls on UB against BG and only 14 the other day against NIU was that head coach Becky Burke has told her team to be less aggressive on defense, because we can't afford to have players foul out. Similarly, we are not aggressive on the boards, again because we don't want players fouling out. In both games, the refs called the game appropriately, there were simply not a lot of fouls to call.

I wonder how you know this.  And if true, so very sad.

Here are some foul stats for UB in the last 7 games.

10 players 18 total fouls, 2 players with 3 fouls
8 players 14 total fouls, Perkins fouled out, one other with 3 fouls.
7 players 17 total fouls, Perkins fouled out, 3 others with 3 fouls
7 players 11 total fouls, 3 players with 3 fouls
8 players 14 total fouls, 3 players with 3 fouls.
6 Players 10 total fouls, 1 player with 3 fouls.
6 Players 14 total fouls, 4 players with 3 fouls.

By these numbers, it doesn't appear UB has been in foul trouble except for Perkins. They can throttle back their aggression once they get closer to foul trouble. They probably are less aggressive to save energy.

Also, if UB needs a break/rest, why are they going into the locker room at the end of the game with unused timeouts?

[1975]

1 hour ago, dj_paige said:

I'm going to have to disagree with the comments that the all-female ref crew was any different than the previous home game, a 3 pt loss to Bowling Green. In the BG game there were 2 male officials, and they called 11 fouls on UB all game. Why? Did it have anything to do with the gender of the officials? Of course not. The reason there were only 11 fouls on UB against BG and only 14 the other day against NIU was that head coach Becky Burke has told her team to be less aggressive on defense, because we can't afford to have players foul out. Similarly, we are not aggressive on the boards, again because we don't want players fouling out. In both games, the refs called the game appropriately, there were simply not a lot of fouls to call.

Also, when a team is less aggressive on defense, its a lot easier for the refs to get the calls right (i.e. fewer mistakes or questionable calls).

Also, the lead official in the game against NIU, Maggie Tiernan (you might remember) called an intentional foul on Teresa Onwuka with about 2 seconds left in double overtime (before the ball was alive) with Central Michigan ahead by 1 in early 2020 (when Central Michigan/UB rivalry was the best in the MAC). Did she do this because of her gender? I doubt it. Would a male official have made the same call? Yes I think so. https://www.ubbullrun.com/2020/1/30/21116045/wbb-about-that-intentional-foul-with-2-seconds-left-in-2ot-against-cmu

My poor sentence structure seemed to imply that the gender of the referees influenced their treatment of the players. That was not my intention. I should have separated my thoughts (1) I was happy to see an all female officiating crew on a day when & where women’s athletics was celebrated; (2) I was pleased to not see the usual crews; (3) I was pleasantly surprised with the calls. As a national referee of another sport I appreciate materiality when violations are called…this crew seemed better than most at that. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by 1975
Typo

[ChubbyHubby]

What is materiality?

[John]

17 hours ago, bullsbball said:

I assume Salmons is not longer on the team since she no longer appears on UB Women's Roster. 

So very sad that we can barely field a team.

Do agree. With Salmons not even on the roster  and Nwora not active but still on the roster we have no true frontline type post players that can overcome the bigger frontline players on the other MAC teams. How this coaching staff can try to get this depleted team to play with some positive vibes will truly be the toughest part of a coach’s job. Will continue to show support and look to the future for better days ahead. Go Bulls!!!

[UBinMD]

19 hours ago, bullsbball said:

I assume Salmons is not longer on the team since she no longer appears on UB Women's Roster. 

So very sad that we can barely field a team.

I thought she was a solid contributor and had some games where she did well. Not sure what happened, but there was a change order several games ago when Ogden began to start and Salmons seemed to be in the doghouse. Not sure what deteriorated there, but it has been a rough season, not unexpected but there was a flicker of hope for a period of time, but playing 6 people is not going to work long term. Hopefully they all finish the season healthy and then we basically will get a new roster. 

Headed into 2023-24 we will have: Ellis, Nwora (assuming her personal issue gets resolved), Mashaire (solid piece but not going to take over a game from what I've seen), Ogden and Watson (who BB says is the best player in the MAC, unfortunately we haven't seen that). Not sure if they will try to get a medical redshirt for Johnson. That gives us between 4-6 returners (pending Nwora and Johnson). I believe BB had a recruiting class of 7 so far. If Salmons is gone, then maybe she looks for another transfer potentially to take that and maybe one more to get us in the range of 14 real players.

[promotherobot]

Watching them at Toledo is painful. After hanging with the Rockets for a few minutes they are getting run off the floor. At one point all 4 players were running back to play defense while the shooter was attempting a 3. You'd think someone would get into position for a rebound.

[UBinMD]

24 minutes ago, promotherobot said:

Watching them at Toledo is painful. After hanging with the Rockets for a few minutes they are getting run off the floor. At one point all 4 players were running back to play defense while the shooter was attempting a 3. You'd think someone would get into position for a rebound.

7 points in a quarter, 28% shooting. This team is painful to watch. I’m giving BB a pass on this season, but it’s confirmed Salmons left the program. The season probably can’t end soon enough. I hope we have a couple bigs. Regardless of the shooters, etc. we need some size to compete in this league.

[bullsbball]

I was listening on the radio (painful) and the announcer said that in his pregame conversation with BB (which I didn't hear), she said that she has already written off this year and touting the recruits for next year.

Give me something to look forward too. Who are these recruits and why would they still commit to UB after this season we've had?

[UBinMD]

4 minutes ago, bullsbball said:

I was listening on the radio (painful) and the announcer said that in his pregame conversation with BB (which I didn't hear), she said that she has already written off this year and touting the recruits for next year.

Give me something to look forward too. Who are these recruits and why would they still commit to UB after this season we've had?

Timberlynn Yeast (5’10” G - Kentucky)

Madison Heiss (5’10” SG - Texas)

Paige Kohler (5’7” PG - Ohio)

Ella Take (6’0” G/W - Ottawa)

Jakayla Thompson (5’8” CG - Kentucky)

Ella Weaver (6’0” SG/W - Virginia)

Paula Lopes (5’8” G - Spain)

[121Merrimac]

This year’s problem: no post players. 
Next year’s solution: recruit more guards?

[UBinMD]

1 minute ago, UBinMD said:

 

Timberlynn Yeast (5’10” G - Kentucky)

Madison Heiss (5’10” SG - Texas)

Paige Kohler (5’7” PG - Ohio)

Ella Take (6’0” G/W - Ottawa)

Jakayla Thompson (5’8” CG - Kentucky)

Ella Weaver (6’0” SG/W - Virginia)

Paula Lopes (5’8” G - Spain)

I would say they are coming because they connected with Coach Burke and the staff plus they can compete for a starting job as a true freshman. BB tried to get game ready players to fill the gap and unfortunately the team she thought she had didn’t pan out, some injuries and a couple weird “personal issue” players. The players we have a marginal shooters at best, we need 4/5 players to go 40 minutes a game, not a plan for success. They coaches get visibly frustrated with the players and they had a lot of attitude early in the year and maybe they is back. Best she can do was a drag them thru the season and move on. Hopefully the few players that will still be on the team can learn from this and work hard in the offseason to improve 

[121Merrimac]

20 minutes ago, 121Merrimac said:

This year’s problem: no post players. 
Next year’s solution: recruit more guards?

Sure, I understand seniors need to be replaced, but still…

[DaBulls99]

2 hours ago, bullsbball said:

I was listening on the radio (painful) and the announcer said that in his pregame conversation with BB (which I didn't hear), she said that she has already written off this year and touting the recruits for next year.

Give me something to look forward too. Who are these recruits and why would they still commit to UB after this season we've had?

Tell me you don’t follow sports without telling me you don’t follow sports. This happens all the time with new coaches. We’ve been an ultra successful program very recently and the recruits buy into her vision and want to be a foundation of things to come. BB’s track record is pretty good building programs. 

[John]

3 hours ago, UBinMD said:

7 points in a quarter, 28% shooting. This team is painful to watch. I’m giving BB a pass on this season, but it’s confirmed Salmons left the program. The season probably can’t end soon enough. I hope we have a couple bigs. Regardless of the shooters, etc. we need some size to compete in this league.

It does look like the entire team and coaches have mentally and physically checked out. Sad to see when they have lost so many players and have no D1 players accept Winfield, Stone and Young. Will still be there the rest of the year to show support for the team.

[UBinMD]

7 hours ago, John said:

It does look like the entire team and coaches have mentally and physically checked out. Sad to see when they have lost so many players and have no D1 players accept Winfield, Stone and Young. Will still be there the rest of the year to show support for the team.

Coach Burke’s post game tweets for patience and hang with us have dried up. I’ll still support, but have tempered expectations. I will selfishly admit I’m a little happy Syracuse is 6-7 in conference and hanging out in 9th place. I don’t want our fans to be the only miserable group in the transition year. Go Bulls!!🤘🏻🤘🏻

[bullsbball]

9 hours ago, 121Merrimac said:

This year’s problem: no post players. 
Next year’s solution: recruit more guards?

And I presume these 4 will be returning:

Caelan Ellis G Freshman
Emerita Mashaire G/F Sophomore
Hattie Ogden G/F Freshman
Chellia Watson G Redshirt Junior

I just can't see Johnson returning for her 6th year (assuming she could).

That would make a lot of Guards and no true Forwards. I think that leaves 3 scholarships still open. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by bullsbball

[1975]

22 hours ago, ChubbyHubby said:

What is materiality?

It’s what governs, or should govern, whether a referee calls a particular infringement. Some fouls should always be called, but for others the referee must decide if the infringement was “material” to the play or game.

[ChubbyHubby]

2 hours ago, 1975 said:

It’s what governs, or should govern, whether a referee calls a particular infringement. Some fouls should always be called, but for others the referee must decide if the infringement was “material” to the play or game.

Thank you.  I'm familiar with that process, but had never heard it called materiality before.  Much appreciated.

[UBinMD]

4 hours ago, bullsbball said:

And I presume these 4 will be returning:

Caelan Ellis G Freshman
Emerita Mashaire G/F Sophomore
Hattie Ogden G/F Freshman
Chellia Watson G Redshirt Junior

I just can't see Johnson returning for her 6th year (assuming she could).

That would make a lot of Guards and no true Forwards. I think that leaves 3 scholarships still open. 

Looks like all of our recruits are 6' and under, most are highly skilled offensive players by the looks. I think the staff needs to find at least 2 larger bodies that have defensive prowess and shot blockers/changers. I'm good with a smaller lineup at times, but that cannot be 100% of the time in the MAC.

[UBinMD]

For all of the challenges this year, do want to shout out to Jazmine Young for sticking with the program and getting to 1,000 points. Good accomplishment from her.