UB MBB Thoughts at 1 - 9

[UB Horns Up]

On 12/9/2023 at 8:16 PM, Fedup said:

Face it. UB athletic program is broken and unfixable. What should be done?: 1. Fire Allnuts. 2. Go down to Div III in bball. Great rivalry will ensue with Buff St. and Fredonia. 3. Discontinue football. No more Mo will be awesome. As a taxpayer, I resent my tax dollars being wasted on this joke.

You realize your tax dollars will just be spent on another joke that is of no real use for Western New York right? UB athletics can be 0 wins and a 1,000 consecutive losses and Western New York is still better off funding a Division I college football and basketball team at UB just from the stand point the money stays in Western New York, it keeps young people out of trouble and it educates young people that otherwise can’t afford to go to college on a road to being future residents potentially of our Western New York community. I get next to nothing out of a bridge going over the Hudson River or the Carrier Dome renovations but I help fund those things because it’s part of the deal. You realize your tax dollars are going to that money pit Syracuse Orange athletics that suck. I noticed you don’t say anything much about them just UB? How come? Again I am critical of UB football and UB basketball but I don’t believe in dropping the program. That was a huge mistake in 1971 for Western New York. As a matter of fact I want more of your tax dollars to fund renovations to UB Stadium what do you think about those apples.

I don’t care about your tax dollars because you have no idea how much New York State waste money on many many things. You like funding former New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo’s book? He used his secretary staff to type his book on your tax dollars. I noticed you fail to mention that. I also noticed you just come out from under your rock when UB basketball sucks right now and UB football is struggling isn’t that too convenient. Now run along while I spend your tax dollars on UB Stadium upgrades like every other state in America does. If you don’t like that there is the door no one is forcing you to stay in Buffalo, Western New York, New York State or America now run along. Too UB athletics keep spending the tax money that is one thing UB athletics is actually doing right. I just wish as a UB Bulls fan UB athletics would ask New York State for more taxpayers money in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[UB Horns Up]

On 12/12/2023 at 9:57 AM, zigo230 said:

 

That's a complete embarrassment.  Wow, UB men's sports has fallen.  I'll give this coach another recruiting season of course to show what he's got...but i guess there's nowhere to go but up.

Unfortunately until UB donors are able to come up with $1,000 to $2,000 a year to pay the basketball players like St Bonaventure Bonnies do these are the results we are going to get. Remember Nate Oats and Bobby Hurley never had to deal with NIL money at UB. You want a point guard that is the going rate for the top mid majors basketball programs. That is the real reason why George Halcovage went young no NIL money to offer I would guess. If NCAA plan goes through we (UB Bulls) are going to have to come up with NIL trust funds for all the players men’s and women’s sports the same for everyone regardless if it’s a revenue generating sport or not or face being downgraded or left behind. I think if that NCAA NIL trust fund idea happens programs will just drop more Olympic sports like Wrestling, Rowing etc to help fund the NIL trust funds for all the remaining programs that the schools keep. Canisius, Niagara and St Bonaventure I believe keep there basketball programs Division I by dropping more Olympic sports. I don’t know what UB will do because the state has a say in that because UB isn’t private like the other three Big 4 schools. So the Little Three basketball schools will just drop Olympic sports unfortunately just to keep basketball Division I and have a chance for the NCAA basketball tournament in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[RapidsFan]

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Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[SGBull]

4 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:

College should be free. Dangling it as a carrot in front of disadvantaged youths doesn't help anyone.

Or are you worried the modern-day slave trade that is the NFL Combine would go away if the pipeline of black college athletes disappeared?

Just admit you're a racist shithead, Mike. Stop being a coward for once in your life.

Did you really just compare the NFL Combine to slavery?

[NC_UBfan]

35 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:

Or are you worried the modern-day slave trade that is the NFL Combine would go away if the pipeline of black college athletes disappeared?

I mean wrong sport right how did we get here 🤡

[RapidsFan]

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Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[dutchcountry7]

1 hour ago, RapidsFan said:

https://www.ubspectrum.com/article/2022/03/how-slaverys-power-dynamic-has-influenced-the-nfl

Yet the Combine, which is sometimes referred to as “the underwear Olympics,” shares distressing similarities with a slave auction. The participants — primarily people of color — are observed and examined by scouts and general managers, who are primarily white, and those white scouts are then the ones determining who is the fastest and strongest, and who can bring in the most money.

Slave-buyers were also found to pay attention to little details, such as speed and hand size, as they sought to purchase the enslaved human that could get the most work done in the shortest amount of time. Nowadays, as back then, the purchaser attempts to evaluate the longevity of the prospect.

These vulnerable college athletes are dying for their chance to prove themselves to capitalists to make it on the big screen, which makes them highly susceptible to the league’s imbalanced power dynamic.

 

[dutchcountry7]

On 12/13/2023 at 12:16 PM, trueblue32 said:

People keep saying this, but this isn't pro sports where we need to tank for a high draft pick. There is literally no reason that this team should be the worst in UB history by a wide margin. Is the idea that the recruiting gets easier after the mystery of what could be is gone and Halcovage is just a coach leading a team coming off of (what we can hope is) a 5 win season? Spoiler alert: even without a coaching change there is no guarantee that any of these players are here next year. We are not rebuilding anything currently. Next year Halcovage will be rebuilding from the depths that he has plummeted the program to. If he thinks rebuilding is recruiting off a 15 win season then he is about to find out what rebuilding is.

The question is what will be the new staff's strength? 

Recruiting isn't likely to be because there is no money to buy players and you have to buy players in this new era.  This is why a lot of coaches passed over the UB job.  They may have taken it a few years prior but now they need a budget to pay players.

Which means UB needs to have someone that can coach up players.  Nova did a great job of that so we hope to see that with the new staff.  If we see progress throughout the season and the team is performing better come Feb and March then it will be a good foundation for the program moving forward.

 

[rma]

1 hour ago, RapidsFan said:

https://www.ubspectrum.com/article/2022/03/how-slaverys-power-dynamic-has-influenced-the-nfl

Yet the Combine, which is sometimes referred to as “the underwear Olympics,” shares distressing similarities with a slave auction. The participants — primarily people of color — are observed and examined by scouts and general managers, who are primarily white, and those white scouts are then the ones determining who is the fastest and strongest, and who can bring in the most money.

Slave-buyers were also found to pay attention to little details, such as speed and hand size, as they sought to purchase the enslaved human that could get the most work done in the shortest amount of time. Nowadays, as back then, the purchaser attempts to evaluate the longevity of the prospect.

These vulnerable college athletes are dying for their chance to prove themselves to capitalists to make it on the big screen, which makes them highly susceptible to the league’s imbalanced power dynamic.

How do you feel about the NHL Combine, where 17 and 18 year olds across the world are sent to Buffalo to be similarly evaluated?

[RapidsFan]

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Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[rma]

2 hours ago, RapidsFan said:

NHL, its workforce 84% white

The report released Tuesday found that 83.6% of the NHL’s workforce is white and that men make up nearly 62% of the total, based on the 4,200 people who participated in a voluntary and anonymous survey (about 67% of all employees).

That nearly mirrors the situation on the ice, where more than 90% of players and nearly all coaches and officials are white.

This doesn't really answer my question.

[RapidsFan]

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Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[rma]

21 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:

The vast majority of hockey players are white and from upper middle class/wealthy backgrounds

Elite talent: The private school education of NHL All-Stars

Fitz-Gerald cites a series of 2016 articles by Teri Pecoskie at the Hamilton Spectator. The series looked at players in the Ontario Hockey League (Major Junior A) and found 80 per cent came from neighbourhoods with median family incomes above the Ontario average of $80,987.

The MLB combine?

[RapidsFan]

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Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[MuchMany]

This thread is a mess. Comparing men doing something they love and competing to be the most well-compensated professionals in the history of the world to a slave auction is in the immortal words of Bob Uecker...juuuuust a bit outside. I'd watch ESPN if I wanted my sports stuffed with hysterical, misguided political themes. Maybe take a few plays off?

Edited December 16, 2023 by MuchMany

[RapidsFan]

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Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[MuchMany]

That's a completely different conversation than relating multimillion dollar athletes to the slave trade, but ok. 

17 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:

Is this not the same forum that mocked Javon McCrea's semi-pro team because you didn't want to be reminded that a majority of UB's players are left struggling for work?

Most college basketball and football players don't get scholarships and end up with nothing but student loan debt in return. It's a racket.

The poster I was responding to stated that taxpayers funding Division I basketball and football helps to educate disadvantaged youth. For a vast majority of student athletes, that's not true.

Free tuition and a minimum wage for all athletes is the absolute least the NCAA should be able to provide. Minor league baseball players got treated like dirt for years until they recently unionized - there's no reason why college athletes can't do the same.

Dartmouth's men's basketball team has a pending petition with the National Labor Relations Board to unionize:

Dartmouth starts season while pushing for union

I did no such thing, no idea what you're talking about. If you're referring to the board as a whole as "you," I'd suggest being a bit more precise with your language. There are a lot of people here, all with their own views.

Free tuition is a hell of a head start compared to, you know, regular college students. Student athletes should be educated on and prepared for the fact that they are unlikely to be professional athletes. There's no reason that "the vast majority" of student athletes, disadvantaged or not, should be failing to utilize the opportunity their athletic talents have afforded them in the classroom.

[rma]

6 hours ago, RapidsFan said:

29% of all D-I college baseball players make it to MLB

7% of all D-I college hockey players make it to the NHL

2% of all D-I college football players make it to the NFL

1% of all D-I college basketball players make it to the NBA

I don't know what this is supposed to mean or the point you are trying to make, but I can guarantee you that 29% of D1 players do not make it to the majors.

4 hours ago, RapidsFan said:

Is this not the same forum that mocked Javon McCrea's semi-pro team

Nope, you have us confused with somewhere else. Perhaps The Buffalo News comments or local news Facebook comments?

4 hours ago, RapidsFan said:

you didn't want to be reminded that a majority of UB's players are left struggling for work?

Most college basketball and football players don't get scholarships and end up with nothing but student loan debt in return. It's a racket.

This is not true for UB student athletes at all.

If you're comparing UB to colleges that do not give athletic scholarships that's comparing apples to avocados.

[BrooklynBull]

On 12/16/2023 at 4:14 AM, RapidsFan said:

Free tuition and a minimum wage for all athletes is the absolute least the NCAA should be able to provide. Minor league baseball players got treated like dirt for years until they recently unionized - there's no reason why college athletes can't do the same.

First the NCAA would not be providing anything to the athletes, it would be the individual schools.

Do you count the value of the education and fees as income against "minimum wage" payments.  That would require taxes to be paid.  Where does an 18 year old get the money to pay taxes on the value of their education?  Think about a kid at Duke.  Where do they get the money to pay taxes on over $60,000.00?

As for unionizing, only 14 FBS schools are subject to the National Labor Relations Act.  The rest are public employers and only subject to their individual state laws on employer-employee definitions and unionization.

Have you also taken into account all of the extra expenses that go along with students being employees?  For example New York State employees vest for a pension after five years of employment.  Do the athletes qualify for a pension and lifetime health insurance like of New York employees?  How much will it cost schools to cover all of their athletes for workers' compensation benefits?

This would not be limited to football and basketball teams.  It would have to apply to all teams.  Furthermore, everything that wants people give these benefits to Division I athletes, the same relationship between schools and athletes apply at Division II and Division III schools as well, as it relates to employer-employee relationship.

[RapidsFan]

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Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[BrooklynBull]

2 hours ago, RapidsFan said:

Ah, this board and it's constantly shifting goalposts.

Hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer money for new sports stadiums - "good investment!"

Investing in the health and financial well being of student-athletes - "FILTHY COMMUNISM, WHERE WILL WE GET THE MONEY, THEY SHOULD USE THEIR DEGREE TO BOOTSTRAP THEMSELVES" etc. etc.

Just admit once these kids graduate and you can no longer place bets on their performance, you don't care at all about what happens to them

City after city shows that investments in stadiums/arenas is bad economically.

The student athletes get scholarships, medical care and now over the last few years mental health assistance.  Not sure how giving students that is communism.

Not paying students for paying sports is a position that I have believed in for decades.

[RapidsFan]

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Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[rma]

2 hours ago, RapidsFan said:

why don't cheerleaders and band members also deserve pensions for all the time they spend practicing/traveling/performing?

Where do you propose the ~million dollars a year for this comes from? The UB band's operating budget isn't anywhere near that currently.

5 hours ago, RapidsFan said:

Hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer money for new sports stadiums - "good investment!"

Nobody here has been making that argument. Only lawmakers make that argument because they don't want a team to move on their watch. 

5 hours ago, RapidsFan said:

Just admit once these kids graduate and you can no longer place bets on their performance, you don't care at all about what happens to them

Are you even in New York? In New York you can't bet on college sports that involve New York teams. I don't bet on sports and I know this.

You've successfully derailed yet another thread from discussing our subpar sports teams to insane conservative conspiracy theories. Isn't there a more appropriate place for this, that's not this forum?

[squire17]

I think we can all agree that we want an athletic department of the athletes, by the athletes, and for the athletes. Lifetime medical, and full pensions are the least that should be provided. 

[dutchcountry7]

Remembered this article from last spring.  Thought people might like it since it talks about Mid-Major NIL and gives some figures.

 

https://www.on3.com/nil/news/nil-plays-role-in-michael-eleys-decision-to-stay-at-siena-saints-march-on-collective/