Scheduling in-season home/home series. What do you think? Is it a good solution?

[dutchcountry7]

This post and discussion lead to think about this...

 

We all know that the Bulls are a good team that can't get any good games for the home fans.  

This year the team finally broke down and did an in-season home/home deal with Southern Illinois in order to get a good home game for once.  Now the Bulls have a big non-conference game.

 

My question is this:  Would you be open to seeing more in-season home/home series?

 

This would get bigger games at home but it might reduce some of the high level games.

Would you be willing to trade the LeMoyne game at home and the Marquette game on the road for an in-season home/home with UNC-Greensboro, Vermont, Furman, Murray State, Belmont, or Wofford?

If the Bulls were in a good tournament, it might not be too big of a hit to a schedule because you could still get some major games in a tournament (like the USF game this year).   

It is much easier to identify the teams that are going to be good this season than it is to forecast two years out.

What do you think?  Would you have a problem with two in-season home/home games to get rid of playing the non-D1 or sub-300 games at home?

[Jeseph]

TBH I don't take the time to consider at-large opportunities. I think our schedule should exist to prepare us for late/post-season play. I don't love the idea of playing SIU twice outside of the fact that they're a gritty team that will keep us on our toes. For the most part, I don't see the draw unless it was a cross-town (or close proximity) rival.

UB is in a position to control their destiny but the goal should always be to win the conference championship, barring significant injury this year coming short of that would be a major disappointment. If we do get upset in Cleveland an at-large bid is still probably unlikely unless we win-out OOC.

[hurley]

Do one in season home/home series as we are with Southern Illinois.  I would not be willing to give up the Marquette game for a second series of a similar stature.  Great experience for the kids, tough test that prepares them for top quality teams.  LeMoyne does nothing for us. Rather than schedule a second set of home/home each year I would gladly give up LeMoyne and go play another tough road game.  More resources for the program as it would likely be a buy game.  I find it hard to believe the LeMoyne game will pull in more revenue than a tough road game that would be better for our resume and game experience.  I see literally 0 benefit of LeMoyne game.  

[BullsFan14]

I wouldn't for now. Let me say that I am no expert. 

I would rather have the sub-300 games at home to be used as a buffer for bigger games on the schedule. As the program builds, I would be more open for a home/home game with top 100 programs. At our stage, programs like us need those big road wins against the Power 5's. If we win against Vermont or Furman (road and home), I don't see us ranked nor do I see us at a potential for an at large bid.

I guess it is more a high risk/high reward (playing Power 5 at their turf) or medium risk/low reward (playing home/home).

[dutchcountry7]

16 minutes ago, BullsFan14 said:

I guess it is more a high risk/high reward (playing Power 5 at their turf) or medium risk/low reward (playing home/home). 

But you're ignoring the students and fans.

They want home games to care about.

Right now it is games at home that don't matter and all interesting games are on the road.  Might as well just be a Syracuse or Duke fan at that point as all their interesting games are also on TV. 

[BullsFan14]

1 minute ago, dutchcountry7 said:

But you're ignoring the students and fans.

They want home games to care about.

Right now it is games at home that don't matter and all interesting games are on the road.  Might as well just be a Syracuse or Duke fan at that point as all their interesting games are also on TV. 

I am not sure that games against SIU, Murray State, etc that you have mentioned would really get the public and students excited. They still don't know those programs (students and general public alike) Students don't even know what conference we are in. Playing Power 5's away helps. Here is a general conversation I have had with people that know nothing about Buffalo men's basketball:

Me: "You watching the game tonight?"

Person: "I don't know. Who are they playing?"

Me: "Syracuse!"

Person: "Really? I didn't think Buffalo plays Syracuse. Cuse will probably crush them."

Games against high mid majors doesn't necessarily help us from public/student attendance angle. (In my opinion)

[dutchcountry7]

4 minutes ago, BullsFan14 said:

I am not sure that games against SIU, Murray State, etc that you have mentioned would really get the public and students excited. They still don't know those programs (students and general public alike) Students don't even know what conference we are in. Playing Power 5's away helps. Here is a general conversation I have had with people that know nothing about Buffalo men's basketball:

Me: "You watching the game tonight?"

Person: "I don't know. Who are they playing?"

Me: "Syracuse!"

Person: "Really? I didn't think Buffalo plays Syracuse. Cuse will probably crush them."

Games against high mid majors doesn't necessarily help us from public/student attendance angle. (In my opinion)

Oh, no, I agree 100%.  That casual conversation is real.

But the problem is that you need competitive games for fans.  You're not going to attract a student or casual fan to a game to watch UB blow out LeMoune.  No one wants to sit through a lopsided game.  Even the UB season ticket holders are making the way for the exits before the end of the game against Dartmouth. 

You need people to see competitive games with drama.

It isn't like there will be a lack of games against big name teams. There will still be those games.

It isn't like there still won't be a MAC championship and an auto-bid.  

This is how you build a fan base and don't use a program as a stepping stone.  Anyone can schedule road games.  Few programs actually build a fan base and a fan following. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by dutchcountry7

[Jeseph]

1 minute ago, dutchcountry7 said:

But the problem is that you need competitive games for fans.  You're not going to attract a student or casual fan to a game to watch UB blow out LeMoune.  No one wants to sit through a lopsided game.  Even the UB season ticket holders are making the way for the exits before the end of the game against Dartmouth. 

You need people to see competitive games with drama.

While I agree with this in theory it's more of a business decision than a decision that's "good for the team". The team needs to focus on winning and winning consistently. Leave the sales up to marketing/ticket office.

[dutchcountry7]

6 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

While I agree with this in theory it's more of a business decision than a decision that's "good for the team". The team needs to focus on winning and winning consistently. Leave the sales up to marketing/ticket office.

You're not giving a product to market.

The reality is that UB playing road games makes them like any other college team.  What people want is a team to cheer for in person.  I have like 10 sports channels that I can watch college basketball games on at any time and then there are all the streamed games.  If I want to see a top-25 team play a quality team, I can watch it.

But how many students get to watch their own school, as a top-25 team, play at home, in a dog fight?  That is what makes programs.

Seeing games in person is the novelty these days.  Seeing them on TV is too easy.  If all the games worth watching are away from Buffalo, then what's the point in even being a Buffalo fan while living in Buffalo?  Might as well be a Syracuse fan.  You can' still turn the TV on for the occasional Buffalo game while not attending games in person.  It is no different than any other team you watch on TV without ever attending a game.  By that logic, I am Loyola Marymount fan since I watched them play at UCLA this weekend.  Of course, it wasn't in person. 

 

[fosterclogfear]

I have no problem scheduling a cupcake two days after a twelve hour flight from Belfast.....Did any of you catch the nail biter between Duke and Stetson Saturday? Cameron looked pretty crazy for a 60+ point blowout. Every program schedules cupcakes. I'm a season ticket holder and I'll be there Wednesday to watch the Bulls, not LeMoyne. 

[dutchcountry7]

14 minutes ago, fosterclogfear said:

I have no problem scheduling a cupcake two days after a twelve hour flight from Belfast.....Did any of you catch the nail biter between Duke and Stetson Saturday? Cameron looked pretty crazy for a 60+ point blowout. Every program schedules cupcakes. I'm a season ticket holder and I'll be there Wednesday to watch the Bulls, not LeMoyne. 

This is not about the Lemoyne game.  That isn't the problem.

No one game, in a vacuum is the problem and playing a cupcake isn't a problem.

The last five years have been the glory years, right?

 

Last five years: Number of home non-conference games and top-two non-conference games:

2019 - 5, Southern Illinois & Marist

2018 - 6, St. Bona & NJIT

2017 - 3, Coppin State & Maine

2016 - 6, St. Bona & Canisius

2015 - 5, South Dakota State & Drexel

 

The non-conference covers two months.  There should at least two big games at home in that time.  Marist is #212 in KenPom and they are one of the biggest games?  Really?  According to KenPom, St. Francis PA is actually the second biggest home game for the Bulls.  

You don't need not-20 teams.  But you need at least top-150 teams at home.  Not a full schedule.  You can have a few scrubs.  But two games need to be played at home before the new year.  Luckily we get St Bona every other year so that is one big game.  

[hurley]

@dutchcountry7  your making some valuable points.  I think I may reconsider my stance and agree with you.

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, BullsFan14 said:

I am not sure that games against SIU, Murray State, etc that you have mentioned would really get the public and students excited. They still don't know those programs (students and general public alike) Students don't even know what conference we are in. Playing Power 5's away helps. Here is a general conversation I have had with people that know nothing about Buffalo men's basketball:

Me: "You watching the game tonight?"

Person: "I don't know. Who are they playing?"

Me: "Syracuse!"

Person: "Really? I didn't think Buffalo plays Syracuse. Cuse will probably crush them."

Games against high mid majors doesn't necessarily help us from public/student attendance angle. (In my opinion)

Exactly.

Being the official UB ambassador in ROC and having a slight Twitter following, I try to push UB all the time. But that is literally a conversation I have once a day. 

I think people are finally realizing that UB is a top 20 program and have some legit talent. Although many people (my wife included) only know us for CJ Massinburg, and MAYBE Nate Oats. 

The amount of UB is "overperforming" comments I get are kind of baffling. The support for Syracuse being 2+ hours away is annoying. 

I, however, don't see the benefit to a home/home. The public doesn't even know who SIU is. I'd however gladly entertain this against a high mid-major. The top half of A-10, Conf USA, Big East, WCC, American, Big East, or Mountain West.

The public wants to see a team that is/was in the tournament previously. 

[xDerekRx]

6 minutes ago, Kevin said:

 

The public wants to see a team that is/was in the tournament previously. 

This is actually more true than anything. Cinderella type teams that people remember from their brackets like Stephen F Austin and Florida gulf Coast actually make better pub and more even challenge. Or like you said a Richmond, George Washington, Davidson type provides good challenge.

You're not getting Uconn or Pitt in here again. They were both ranked #2 and we could have easily won both of those in the last minute. 

As far as students go, no excuse. Name opponent should not matter at all. Back in 2004-2007 they were drumming up interest based on the BULLS and how much fun they were and the different team personalities. Students are spoiled now to have a TOP 25 team to go see! Im not sure Eddie Asbie or whatever his name was did everything by the book but the dude got everyone on campus wanting to go.

[Jeseph]

2 minutes ago, xDerekRx said:

As far as students go, no excuse. Name opponent should not matter at all. Back in 2004-2007 they were drumming up interest based on the BULLS and how much fun they were and the different team personalities. Students are spoiled now to have a TOP 25 team to go see!

This. It's so frustrating. From 2004-2008 when I was a student, I would have watched them play an intramural team if we were ranked #17.

Have some pride in your team(s)... Even if you don't, no matter who we are playing ONE OF THE TEAMS IS TOP 20 IN THE COUNTRY (it just so happens to be us).

[UB92]

1 hour ago, BullsFan14 said:

 Here is a general conversation I have had with people that know nothing about Buffalo men's basketball:

Me: "You watching the game tonight?"

Person: "I don't know. Who are they playing?"

Me: "Syracuse!"

Person: "Really? I didn't think Buffalo plays Syracuse. Cuse will probably crush them."

Me:   "Well...UB played Syracuse very tough last year...it was close late and they lost by 7 points.   This year, UB is ranked nationally ahead of Syracuse.   You should check them out.    Game starts at 8:00 on ESPN2."

Person:  "Wow...I didn't know...maybe I will check out the game".

Me:  "Great...you should come with me to the next UB home game...I'll contact you."

Person:  "Okay...thanks".

 

 

[MillenniumBull]

These general public fans you want to cater to may only be able to name 10 college basketball programs, may not even realize UB plays Div 1.  SIU has made 2 sweet sixteens, won the NIT, has an alum in the basketball HOF.  UB is lucky to play them.  Fans who now this, true fans of the sport are who you need to cater to and will actually show up.  And what’s better, it is actually possible to cater to them!  Cause those 10 teams that your general public knows, are not coming here.  SIU going into this season had at large dreams of there own, I would play 4home and homes a year if we could find 4 SIUs.

the Marist and Dartmouth games were part of the Belfast classic.  That tourney did right by UB and USF, getting them free home games and putting the best 4 teams on one side of the N Ireland bracket.

also look at Detroit Mercy. Decent program but OOC will play 7 MAC schools.  Hard to differentiate yourself that way.  The school did one hell of a job with this schedule.  Smart, good spacing of hard games, the gimme game at the appropriate time.  Ramping up right before conference play.  Perfect schedule.

[mikescherrer8]

1 hour ago, dutchcountry7 said:

They want home games to care about.

I would like to see the valid survey ran to support that. 

[Kevin]

11 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

This. It's so frustrating. From 2004-2008 when I was a student, I would have watched them play an intramural team if we were ranked #17.

Have some pride in your team(s)... Even if you don't, no matter who we are playing ONE OF THE TEAMS IS TOP 20 IN THE COUNTRY (it just so happens to be us).

Exactly.

I had to sit through some really bad Reggie teams. I think I might have had one year with a converted SF playing PG that the team was watchable, maybe one of those UCONN/PIT Games. But AA's power was on display during a packed house against a #2 team. We were pretty average ourselves. 

If the fans/students came out every game like we used to, we'd never lose another game. 

The fact is now they are just choosing to pick some ESPN MAC games at the back end of the schedule. 

[MillenniumBull]

Side note, you want to get the city involved, the people representing the city need to get involved.  The mayor needs to show up to some games, maybe start a Twitter feud with Phili, put the big 4 up against Phili’s big 5 (minus Villanova of course).  Scheduling is tough and outside the box thinking is necessary. Plus would get us eyes in a rich recruiting market.

[dutchcountry7]

1 minute ago, MillenniumBull said:

Side note, you want to get the city involved, the people representing the city need to get involved.  The mayor needs to show up to some games, maybe start a Twitter feud with Phili, put the big 4 up against Phili’s big 5 (minus Villanova of course).  Scheduling is tough and outside the box thinking is necessary. Plus would get us eyes in a rich recruiting market.

Which mayor?

Buffalo or Amherst?

I am not sure how motivated Buffalo will be to promote a team that plays in another city.  "Buffalo Mayor tells residents to go to the suburbs."

[MillenniumBull]

Buffalo mayor.  What’s good for the region is good for the city.

[Jeseph]

4 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

"Buffalo Mayor tells residents to go to the suburbs."

This is an understated aspect of our inability to draw crowds. People in the Buffalo area think/talk about UB like some regional school. There is no allegiance to the program in our own community. You have a newspaper that can't get over Danny White and a sports radio station that occasionally bumps our wins on sports updates. People think we're some tax-hogging public school tucked away from the city.

[bull_trojan]

I think the in-season home and home won't work for most major programs, they'd only do a 2- year home and home.

For a 2-year home and home...

The dilemmas for the other team is:

1) Is Buffalo going to be good in the 2nd year of the home and home? If not sure, we don't want to sign up and play a team that will damage our SOS and
2) If Buffalo will be good, how will a loss affect us? Look at WVU, they lost to UB and fell 12 spots out of the rankings. If they had play a more significant power like UConn and lost, they probably stay in the 20-25 area, just public perception.

The dilemma for Buffalo is we can schedule 2 games many ways:
1) 2 road buy games = 200k
2) 1 road buy game + 1 home game = 100k - cost to bring team to alumni + revenue at alumni.
3) Home and  home = Revenue at Alumni

Financially, do we think #3 makes us more than #1 or #2, I don't.

Finally, I hear a lot about how 10-3 UB football had 3 chances to "win" Buffalo and blew it. If that's how the local community feels, why take a top 20 game at home, for all the marbles? Betting the whole season on one big game early, that's like betting the mortgage on Black in Vegas.

[bull_trojan]

I like the idea of hosting a MTE as host, if we could get 2 games at home, and then play 2 games at Keybank or Air Canada, it might help us attract some bigger named teams, get a better home game on the schedule and help us market in the city of buffalo or regionally in Toronto.

I'd love the Big 4 classic:

Pre tourney round:
Michigan @ UB
UCF @ Cansius
UConn @ Bona
Va Tech @ Niagara

Round 1 (all games at Alumni arena)

1) UB- Canisius
2) UCF (AAC) - UConn (Big East)
3) Bona-Niagara
4) Michigan (Big 10) - Va Tech (ACC)

Round 2 (all games at Keybank Center or Air Canada Centre)

5) winner 1 vs winner 2
6) winner 3 vs winner 4
7) loser 1 vs loser 2
8 ) loser 3 vs loser 4

Round 3 (all games at Keybank Center or Air Canada Centre)
9) Championship (winner 5 vs winner 6)
10) 3rd place game (loser 5 vs loser 6)
11) 5th place game (winner 7 vs winner 8 )
12) 7th place game (loser 7 vs loser 8 )

Edited December 3, 2018 by bull_trojan