Women's Basketball vs Bowling Green, 1/25/2023

[dj_paige]

On paper, Bowling Green stacks up as a very strong opponent, with two losses all season, and only one MAC loss. In addition, BG returns most of last year's team.

But, when Buffalo gets strong play from their three starting guards, Winfield, Stone and Young, they have showed they can carry the team against anyone. On the other hand, they ALL need to play well, if one or more of them have sub-par games, we will struggle against anyone. It would be great if someone else would start consistently playing well. I thought that might be Perkins, who had a good game against Ball State, but then not productive at all at WMU. It would be great if the two freshman, Ogden and Ellis, start making some shots, as they are purported to be the best three point shooters on the team, but so far no sign of that in actual games.

[UBinMD]

9 minutes ago, dj_paige said:

On paper, Bowling Green stacks up as a very strong opponent, with two losses all season, and only one MAC loss. In addition, BG returns most of last year's team.

But, when Buffalo gets strong play from their three starting guards, Winfield, Stone and Young, they have showed they can carry the team against anyone. On the other hand, they ALL need to play well, if one or more of them have sub-par games, we will struggle against anyone. It would be great if someone else would start consistently playing well. I thought that might be Perkins, who had a good game against Ball State, but then not productive at all at WMU. It would be great if the two freshman, Ogden and Ellis, start making some shots, as they are purported to be the best three point shooters on the team, but so far no sign of that in actual games.

For whatever reason, Ogden and Ellis don't get a lot of PT. Not sure if BB doesn't have faith in them yet, she doesn't think their defense is up to par yet or what. Salmons is very productive in stretches, but then ends up on the bench never to be seen again. It's an odd dynamic. Perkins looked lost in early action and has gotten better throughout, hopefully that can continue. Coming in off the bench for 5 minutes and being expected to consistently hit 3's as a freshman is unrealistic. It's not like they are Paxton or BJ Armstrong from the Bulls runs. I would have liked to see a 7-8 person rotation, but the coaching staff doesn't seem to have faith in 4-8 really. It could bite us in the ass eventually. Boeheim had that philosophy for years, rarely went 7 deep and in the tournament it was always exposed. You have to develop players and that has to happen on the court sometimes, even if it's 10-15 minutes a game.

[dj_paige]

I think Ogden and Ellis haven't shown that they can be productive in actual games. So yeah, BB doesn't have faith in them at this time and (if it matters at all) I don't either.

[John]

2 hours ago, UBinMD said:

For whatever reason, Ogden and Ellis don't get a lot of PT. Not sure if BB doesn't have faith in them yet, she doesn't think their defense is up to par yet or what. Salmons is very productive in stretches, but then ends up on the bench never to be seen again. It's an odd dynamic. Perkins looked lost in early action and has gotten better throughout, hopefully that can continue. Coming in off the bench for 5 minutes and being expected to consistently hit 3's as a freshman is unrealistic. It's not like they are Paxton or BJ Armstrong from the Bulls runs. I would have liked to see a 7-8 person rotation, but the coaching staff doesn't seem to have faith in 4-8 really. It could bite us in the ass eventually. Boeheim had that philosophy for years, rarely went 7 deep and in the tournament it was always exposed. You have to develop players and that has to happen on the court sometimes, even if it's 10-15 minutes a game.

I do agree. The bottom line is when the Ogden’s and Ellis’s come off the bench the way to get more playing time is hit some shots and neither has been close at all. They seem to be rushed and just throw shots up. As is the case with many first year players the game has not slowed down for them. Making some shots on a consistent basis from one game to the next is what results in some confidence. Do agree the BG game will be very tough as they have an experienced team with both an inside and outside presence. With our non existent bench not sure if we will have enough energy in the 4th quarter which has been the case in the last few games. Go Bulls!!!

[dj_paige]

1 hour ago, John said:

I do agree. The bottom line is when the Ogden’s and Ellis’s come off the bench the way to get more playing time is hit some shots and neither has been close at all. They seem to be rushed and just throw shots up.

So, I would say something different. I think the coaches have encouraged Ogden and Ellis to take three pointers when they are open, and told them not to pass up the opportunity. The coaches know that they are good three point shooters (in theory). So in general, I don't mind the shots they have taken. Maybe a few times, they took the shot when they weren't open, hard to remember, those would not be good shots.

[dj_paige]

4 hours ago, John said:

With our non existent bench not sure if we will have enough energy in the 4th quarter which has been the case in the last few games. Go Bulls!!!

I wish it were that simple. Dyaisha Fair averaged over 37 minutes per game last year, and Summer Hemphill averaged nearly 36 minutes per game, and Georgia Woolley (once she became a starter) averaged 36 minutes a game, and I don't recall fatigue being a problem. There's really no way of knowing if the problem in the last two games was fatigue or something else.

Against Ball State, the Cardinals used a different center for most of the second half, compared to the first half, and perhaps she was more effective than the starting center at clogging up the paint, and so this had nothing to do with fatigue.

[UBinMD]

51 minutes ago, dj_paige said:

I wish it were that simple. Dyaisha Fair averaged over 37 minutes per game last year, and Summer Hemphill averaged nearly 36 minutes per game, and Georgia Woolley (once she became a starter) averaged 36 minutes a game, and I don't recall fatigue being a problem. There's really no way of knowing if the problem in the last two games was fatigue or something else.

Against Ball State, the Cardinals used a different center for most of the second half, compared to the first half, and perhaps she was more effective than the starting center at clogging up the paint, and so this had nothing to do with fatigue.

Wooley and Fair were far better shooters, so there were fewer lulls in scoring than our current group. Fair was also a volume shooter and needed to get 20+ shots to get close to 20 on most days. She was a solid distributor too. Hemphill was a very good inside presence, Salmons has moments and Kiara would have been a force. Also, BB was hoping Watson was going to be eligible, but unfortunately that is not in the cards this year. By the sounds, she would have put us at another level if she were able to play with Winfield, Stone and Young. Gotta roll with what you have and hope for the best. They play hard, every game, beginning to end. I can't really ask for more than that.

[John]

13 minutes ago, UBinMD said:

Wooley and Fair were far better shooters, so there were fewer lulls in scoring than our current group. Fair was also a volume shooter and needed to get 20+ shots to get close to 20 on most days. She was a solid distributor too. Hemphill was a very good inside presence, Salmons has moments and Kiara would have been a force. Also, BB was hoping Watson was going to be eligible, but unfortunately that is not in the cards this year. By the sounds, she would have put us at another level if she were able to play with Winfield, Stone and Young. Gotta roll with what you have and hope for the best. They play hard, every game, beginning to end. I can't really ask for more than that.

I understand what the comments are regarding the minutes Fair and Woolley played but that UB team seemed to have other players that contributed than this group and just observations this UB team has been having more offensive woes in the 4th quarter and I understand a lot of factors contribute to that. Do agree this is a totally different team with the younger players trying to find their way. Not a knock on any of the players and Coach Burke and staff are doing a good job with a limited roster. Just staying positive and hope to get some wins. Go Bulls!!

[DaBulls99]

Hell of an effort tonight by the ladies. 3 pt loss. 

[Bluebird96]

6 minutes ago, DaBulls99 said:

Hell of an effort tonight by the ladies. 3 pt loss. 

Had a chance right to the end. Just couldn’t get the potential game-tying shot off. Gave BGSU all they could handle.

[dj_paige]

Impressive performance despite the loss. I hope that ends the "fatigued in the 4th" narrative.

[John]

12 hours ago, DaBulls99 said:

Hell of an effort tonight by the ladies. 3 pt loss. 

Agree. A great effort tonight and a very entertaining game against one of the better MAC teams. With no post presence and very little frontline scoring it is what it is for this year. Too bad Stone, Winfield and Young does not have another year with a potential good recruiting class coming in next year. Go Bulls!!!

[dj_paige]

I like the positivity here

 

[John]

8 minutes ago, dj_paige said:

I like the positivity here

 

 

[1975]

On 1/25/2023 at 8:39 AM, UBinMD said:

For whatever reason, Ogden and Ellis don't get a lot of PT. Not sure if BB doesn't have faith in them yet, she doesn't think their defense is up to par yet or what. Salmons is very productive in stretches, but then ends up on the bench never to be seen again. It's an odd dynamic. Perkins looked lost in early action and has gotten better throughout, hopefully that can continue. Coming in off the bench for 5 minutes and being expected to consistently hit 3's as a freshman is unrealistic. It's not like they are Paxton or BJ Armstrong from the Bulls runs. I would have liked to see a 7-8 person rotation, but the coaching staff doesn't seem to have faith in 4-8 really. It could bite us in the ass eventually. Boeheim had that philosophy for years, rarely went 7 deep and in the tournament it was always exposed. You have to develop players and that has to happen on the court sometimes, even if it's 10-15 minutes a game.

I’m a fan but confess I’m not a “basketball guy”. Please explain the coaching philosophy here. What is the point of three 5th year players getting the bulk of the minutes while using a (very) short bench? Even if you win enough games to qualify for the post season wouldn’t you go into a grueling week with exhausted starters and a bench with likely inadequate game experience? Additionally, how does this approach develop younger players for the future? 

[DaBulls99]

You play to win the game. We’ve shown we can go toe to toe with the best in the conference. Why not us?

[dj_paige]

1 hour ago, 1975 said:

I’m a fan but confess I’m not a “basketball guy”. Please explain the coaching philosophy here. What is the point of three 5th year players getting the bulk of the minutes while using a (very) short bench? Even if you win enough games to qualify for the post season wouldn’t you go into a grueling week with exhausted starters and a bench with likely inadequate game experience? Additionally, how does this approach develop younger players for the future? 

What needs to be explained? You play your best players, in an attempt to win the game. Are there other competing goals? Sure. Could she do things differently? Sure. And that's why Becky Burke gets the big bucks, to use her judgment on these competing goals. She doesn't have to do it my way, she doesn't have to do it your way, she doesn't have to do it Jim Whitesell's way, she is getting paid to make her own judgments on how to proceed.

Edited January 27, 2023 by dj_paige

[1975]

3 hours ago, dj_paige said:

What needs to be explained? You play your best players, in an attempt to win the game. Are there other competing goals? Sure. Could she do things differently? Sure. And that's why Becky Burke gets the big bucks, to use her judgment on these competing goals. She doesn't have to do it my way, she doesn't have to do it your way, she doesn't have to do it Jim Whitesell's way, she is getting paid to make her own judgments on how to proceed.

From my view, maybe skewed a tad by strong teams in the recent past, the goal was to win the conference championship. That’s more likely to happen with a strong bench. But sure, let’s play to win now. Why not? Thanks for responding. 

[bullsbball]

4 hours ago, dj_paige said:

What needs to be explained? You play your best players, in an attempt to win the game. Are there other competing goals? Sure. Could she do things differently? Sure. And that's why Becky Burke gets the big bucks, to use her judgment on these competing goals. She doesn't have to do it my way, she doesn't have to do it your way, she doesn't have to do it Jim Whitesell's way, she is getting paid to make her own judgments on how to proceed.

I always feel bad when bench players get little to no playing time (especially if they transferred into the program).  I guess that's why I'm not a coach.

I understand the need for wins, but in this day of the "Transfer Portal", how much playing time does a bench player need to get before they decide the "grass is greener" elsewhere?

Why wasn't Perkins dressed?

Edited January 27, 2023 by bullsbball

[bullsbball]

No	Name	Year	Schools	Position	Minutes	Points
1	Latrice Perkins	5th	2	Guard	276	58
2	Zakiyah Winfield	5th	2	Guard	587	238
3	Jazmine Young	5th	2	Guard	566	226
22	Kiara Johnson	5th	3	Forward	120	41
20	Re'Shawna Stone	Gr.	2	Guard	577	237
11	Briyanna Baron	Sr.	1	Guard	5	3
30	Olivia DeBortoli	Sr.	1	Forward	1	0
35	Chellia Watson	R-Jr.	3	Guard	0	0
10	Ronni Nwora	R-So.	3	Forward	0	0
13	Emerita Mashaire	So.	2	Guard/Forward	469	66
23	Kayla Salmons	So.	2	Forward	266	75
4	Caelan Ellis	Fr.	1	Guard	156	28
33	Hattie Ogden	Fr.	1	Guard/Forward	177	30

[dj_paige]

1 hour ago, bullsbball said:

Why wasn't Perkins dressed?

I'm told she was injured. I don't know what the injury was or how serious it is.

[UBinMD]

Any idea what is up with Nwora? I just heard personal issues. Next year we will have Watson (who is supposed to be a star and has at least been practicing with the team), Salmons, Mashaire, Ogden and Ellis along with 7 talented freshman coming back. Not sure if they will try to get a medical redshirt for Johnson (I would guess no, but you never know). Next year should be interesting again. The beginning will likely be rough and then better. If the freshman pan out, we should have good scorers.

[dj_paige]

30 minutes ago, UBinMD said:

Any idea what is up with Nwora? I just heard personal issues.

That's all I know.

[BrooklynBull]

3 hours ago, 1975 said:

From my view, maybe skewed a tad by strong teams in the recent past, the goal was to win the conference championship. That’s more likely to happen with a strong bench. But sure, let’s play to win now. Why not? Thanks for responding. 

She also had to build a team from scratch in about a month.  She ended up with one player from the entire roster from last season.  That is why it is heavy with fifth year players.

[121Merrimac]

22 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said:

… That is why it is heavy with fifth year players.

I understood the question to be more along the lines of; why not develop the future, by playing some of the younger members a little more.