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Kevin

Ultimate Nate Oats Thread - Future/Staying/Growth/Articles

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1 minute ago, McBulls said:

John, if you and your family got your hopes up after the extension was signed you have nobody to blame but yourself. Oats signed a well deserved contract extension with a pay upgrade. He acknowledged, as he did last year, that he would consider dream job offers. Apparently a $10 million guarantee over 5 years at a school with more money devoted to basketball than UB could dream of devoting, and playing in a conference where top schools DO compete for national championships fit the bill. 

Loyalty? Guess what. Schools aren't "loyal" to coaches, either. This is a two way transaction. Schools terminate contracts routinely before completion. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are for the coach- injuries, transfers, competing against schools paying for recruits, etc.

Lastly, John, please indulge me in an exercise. This week, please return home from work and announce to your wife and family that you have received a 25% raise. Happy days are here! You are understandably grateful to your employer, so much so that you make plans to further your career with this company. Wait two weeks. Return to your wife, and announce that you received an offer to perform the same job with the same title at another company which would pay you three times even your new salary! They would provide you with two company cars. Further, they have resources that would allow you to perform your duties to a higher level than  you ever imagined. 

Now, explain to your wife that you have declined the latest offer. You see, John, you possess loyalty and integrity. Not to your wife and children. Heavens, no. They will suffer for your public display of honor. You are the hero in your own Frank Capra movie. It seems that someone who contracts with your current employer really admires your work. You've never met him, but he has watched you from afar. He and his family have become enamored with you. You simply couldn't walk away and break his heart. Your wife will understand, as will your children. 

I'm sorry we won't be hearing from you for a while. It sounds as though you and your wife will be busy in counseling attempting to repair your marriage after your latest folly. Best of luck, John. No good deed goes unpunished. 

That was funny, and fairly worth thinking about. No matter what, I don't know that Nate and his family would've been hurting too badly with $800k+ per year however, so the example isn't quite as exact as one who has a "normal job" and is just getting by or getting by comfortably, but it is one way to think about it. With the money that gets thrown around, it's nothing that 99.9999% of people would get to experience or have the option to choose from a great and comfortable job A that pays nearly a million dollars or a potentially great but more white knuckled job B that pays 2.5 million.

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1 hour ago, squire17 said:

I don’t know exactly what Oats has said about money. I am saying that he would be a fool to walk away from what was offered. And so I must deduce that not only is he a great coach - he’s no fool either.

Fair enough and I agree with you. And I’d respect him more if he said that. Instead he said, for the record,

“I was a high school math teacher six years ago, so it’s not about the money for us.  Obviously the money doesn’t hurt. But I’d like to play for national championships. We can get to the Final Four here.”

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44 minutes ago, skrabukes said:

That was funny, and fairly worth thinking about. No matter what, I don't know that Nate and his family would've been hurting too badly with $800k+ per year however, so the example isn't quite as exact as one who has a "normal job" and is just getting by or getting by comfortably, but it is one way to think about it. With the money that gets thrown around, it's nothing that 99.9999% of people would get to experience or have the option to choose from a great and comfortable job A that pays nearly a million dollars or a potentially great but more white knuckled job B that pays 2.5 million.

White knuckle job is a good way to put it. Look at Kevin Ollie - wins it all with UCONN. Gets canned a few years later. Oats gambled. He could have stayed here forever for great dough. He flew the coop. We’ll see.

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6 minutes ago, 01bull said:

Fair enough and I agree with you. And I’d respect him more if he said that. Instead he said, for the record,

“I was a high school math teacher six years ago, so it’s not about the money for us.  Obviously the money doesn’t hurt. But I’d like to play for national championships. We can get to the Final Four here.”

It's fair to say he left for multiple reasons. Most major life decisions are multi-factorial. More money- great, but as scrabukes suggested above, once you hit a certain threshold it probably doesn't result in as great a change in lifestyle as those initial salary increases. The opportunity to compete for Final Four appearances and National Championships is a seeming long shot at either 'Bama or Buffalo, but likely a more reasonable expectation at a place like 'Bama, with all the resources it possesses. 

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2 hours ago, McBulls said:

John, if you and your family got your hopes up after the extension was signed you have nobody to blame but yourself. Oats signed a well deserved contract extension with a pay upgrade. He acknowledged, as he did last year, that he would consider dream job offers. Apparently a $10 million guarantee over 5 years at a school with more money devoted to basketball than UB could dream of devoting, and playing in a conference where top schools DO compete for national championships fit the bill. 

Loyalty? Guess what. Schools aren't "loyal" to coaches, either. This is a two way transaction. Schools terminate contracts routinely before completion. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are for the coach- injuries, transfers, competing against schools paying for recruits, etc.

Lastly, John, please indulge me in an exercise. This week, please return home from work and announce to your wife and family that you have received a 25% raise. Happy days are here! You are understandably grateful to your employer, so much so that you make plans to further your career with this company. Wait two weeks. Return to your wife, and announce that you received an offer to perform the same job with the same title at another company which would pay you three times even your new salary! They would provide you with two company cars. Further, they have resources that would allow you to perform your duties to a higher level than  you ever imagined. 

Now, explain to your wife that you have declined the latest offer. You see, John, you possess loyalty and integrity. Not to your wife and children. Heavens, no. They will suffer for your public display of honor. You are the hero in your own Frank Capra movie. 

I'm sorry we won't be hearing from you for a while. It sounds as though you and your wife will be busy in counseling attempting to repair your marriage after your latest folly. Best of luck, John. No good deed goes unpunished. 

Aw...come on, man!

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1 hour ago, squire17 said:

Aw...come on, man!

How dare you criticize me and bring my wife into this display. Because I do not agree with opinions on the site you think I should be in counseling.All that was stated is we have lost our enthusiasm for UB and college and pro sports because of the outrageous money and the way fans get treated.  We can’t do anything about the world being out of control but we can control our own lives with honesty, integrity, responsibility and accountability. As I sign off hope there are many of you that can still enjoy sports and put all the emotion and personal feelings aside.

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46 minutes ago, John said:

How dare you criticize me and bring my wife into this display. Because I do not agree with opinions on the site you think I should be in counseling.All that was stated is we have lost our enthusiasm for UB and college and pro sports because of the outrageous money and the way fans get treated.  We can’t do anything about the world being out of control but we can control our own lives with honesty, integrity, responsibility and accountability. As I sign off hope there are many of you that can still enjoy sports and put all the emotion and personal feelings aside.

You misunderstand me. I am recommending you for the Medal of Honor. Your service to the spirit of amateurism is unparalleled! Les chiens de guerre prévalent!

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John, I'm sorry, but I am at a loss for words. Please re-read what I wrote. 

If you read my post, it posits a hypothetical situation/thought experiment in which you have just turned down a life-changing career opportunity that would benefit your family. This is the exact situation Oats was in. I am not suggesting that your or your wife should be in counseling in real life. I am saying that if you acted in the manner you suggest Oats should have, your family would justifiably be irate with you for your decision for putting the feelings and wants of random fans you had never met ahead of the wants and needs of your own family. Nate Oats acted as any reasonable human being with a wife and children would. Your suggestion that he somehow owes loyalty to our program and school at their expense is laughable.

And for the record- I think most people posting here do still enjoy sports. I have had the time of my life following Buffalo basketball since the start of my time at UB, and those include some absolutely awful seasons. This year, and the rest of Nate's run, was magical. Nate left. I loved having him as coach. I'm bummed, but not bitter, emotional, or distraught. I'm not even angry with him. Our school, and the basketball program, still has the plethora of positive attributes that made us fans in the first place. I didn't start following UB with Nate as coach, and I certainly won't stop following. I think our program is in the best shape it ever has been during a coaching search. Our roster, if maintained, still should compete for a MAC title and tourney birth next year.

I'm just saying stop, take a breath, recognize that Nate is gone and acted just as you would have in the same situation, and get back to enjoying the coaches and players that represent UB.

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51 minutes ago, John said:

How dare you criticize me and bring my wife into this display. Because I do not agree with opinions on the site you think I should be in counseling.All that was stated is we have lost our enthusiasm for UB and college and pro sports because of the outrageous money and the way fans get treated.  We can’t do anything about the world being out of control but we can control our own lives with honesty, integrity, responsibility and accountability. As I sign off hope there are many of you that can still enjoy sports and put all the emotion and personal feelings aside.

After talking to my family one and only one more comment. Honesty and integrity are the cornerstones of our life. When my wife died of cancer 4 years ago our family became passionate outgoing basketball fans at UB. For 20+ years before that we were always at games but more in the silent majority type. For your information some of my family were in counseling and these last five years have been the most exciting and compelling of all. We have met and talked to many at UB in administration and made many friends that will last a lifetime. Our entire family and some friends have been to Cleveland the last five years and were on the floor celebrating with both teams when they won the MAC. We have sent more notes of thanks to coach’s and administrators alike and will have these as memories that will last for the rest of our lives. A large number of our family are UB graduates and alumni and will continue to voice their opinions on what is right and wrong at UB and in our community . Our family want to thank many on the site for their insight and different perspectives on a variety of sports related subjects. As we know there are always ups and downs in sports and in life in general we hope there will still be good times at UB. 

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Hi John- I'm sorry to hear about your wife. Cancer is a terrible disease, and I can't imagine what I would do if I lost my wife. I hope that your family members in counseling have worked through whatever troubled them, and I hope that your family passion for UB basketball offered a ray of sunshine as they did. UB basketball is a shared love for my family as well.

While I disagree with your stance on Nate Oats's character in handling this situation, I love your passion for UB athletics and your core values. I only meant to point out that it can be tricky to balance loyalty, responsibility, and accountability when choosing between doing right by your loved ones versus your school/employer. You can't always serve both masters at once.

I also hope that your return to posting on this site. Keep voicing your opinion. We may not agree on each subject (and you've seen that I'll tell you when I disagree) but I'll always share your mantra: Go Bulls! 

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8 hours ago, McBulls said:

You simply couldn't walk away and break his heart. Your wife will understand, as will your children. 

I'm sorry we won't be hearing from you for a while. It sounds as though you and your wife will be busy in counseling attempting to repair your marriage after your latest folly. Best of luck, John. No good deed goes unpunished. 

If you have marriage and family problems from sticking with a $800k job, your wife and kids suck. 

(My wife and I have discussed opportunities I've had where I can make an extra 6 figures every 4 months. She doesn't pressure me to do it (the opposite in fact - it involves being away and she prefers me home). 

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8 hours ago, McBulls said:

You simply couldn't walk away and break his heart. Your wife will understand, as will your children. 

I'm sorry we won't be hearing from you for a while. It sounds as though you and your wife will be busy in counseling attempting to repair your marriage after your latest folly. Best of luck, John. No good deed goes unpunished. 

If you have marriage and family problems from sticking with a $800k job, your wife and kids suck. 

(My wife and I have discussed opportunities I've had where I can make an extra 6 figures every 4 months. She doesn't pressure me to do it (the opposite in fact - it involves being away and she prefers me home). 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ed said:

If you have marriage and family problems from sticking with a $800k job, your wife and kids suck. 

(My wife and I have discussed opportunities I've had where I can make an extra 6 figures every 4 months. She doesn't pressure me to do it (the opposite in fact - it involves being away and she prefers me home). 

That said, the Bama job probably is more money AND likely more time with the family. Less grinding for recruits at the P5 level. Less road games in the non-conference season. More staff for administrative tasks. Private plane at your disposal means any travel away from home is quicker and more convenient.

Everyone focuses on the money, but if I was going to pitch Oats and family, I would pitch him on our resources allowing him to compete at the same level while freeing him up for 10-20 hours a week of more family time. 

Edited by bull_trojan

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7 hours ago, ed said:

If you have marriage and family problems from sticking with a $800k job, your wife and kids suck. 

(My wife and I have discussed opportunities I've had where I can make an extra 6 figures every 4 months. She doesn't pressure me to do it (the opposite in fact - it involves being away and she prefers me home). 

There is a difference between an extra 6 figures (or are you implying extra $300k/year?) and money that will provide guaranteed financial security for your family for life. Over 5 years. Guaranteed. For the same job and workload. In fact, if he coaches as most of us think he can, he may make money to support his family for a few generations before all is said and done.

Beyond that, you are supporting my assertion. You discuss opportunities with your wife. You, together, make decisions that you feel are best for your family. Not your employer. Not your potential employer. Not your fans. And you do that because you are most loyal to, accountable to, and responsible for your family. It’s not about the dollar amount alone, or even the direction of salary change. Example: you clearly value your time with family. An opportunity arises to make 6 figures less yearly but allows you to work fewer hours and exclusively from home. Now imagine you decline said offer and explain to your wife that Jim in accounting loves your presence in meetings, looks to you as a mentor, and would be gutted- betrayed, really- if you took the offer. Your wife would feel understandably upset that you put the needs of a stranger ahead of her own.

My frustration is the implication that Nate Oats (or you) should consider the desires of anyone (ie Bulls fans) outside of immediate family when making a career choice of this magnitude. 

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On 3/31/2019 at 5:03 AM, McBulls said:

There is a difference between an extra 6 figures (or are you implying extra $300k/year?)

more like $400k over a year, but who's counting. ;D

On 3/31/2019 at 5:03 AM, McBulls said:

Beyond that, you are supporting my assertion. You discuss opportunities with your wife. You, together, make decisions that you feel are best for your family. Not your employer. Not your potential employer. Not your fans. And you do that because you are most loyal to, accountable to, and responsible for your family. It’s not about the dollar amount alone, or even the direction of salary change.

 

sure, i've said as much before he decided to leave when everyone was all happy he was staying.  ;D  and i was fine and defended gill's decisions too.  all that said...

On 3/31/2019 at 5:03 AM, McBulls said:

Your wife would feel understandably upset that you put the needs of a stranger ahead of her own.

no, it would not be understandable, and my wife would still suck if there were marriage problems if i stuck with a $800k job i liked because she wanted mo' money.  

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3 minutes ago, ButlerAlumDad said:

As expected:

"Oats walked onto the UB campus last Wednesday like he didn’t know he was leaving. He took a private jet with his family to Tuscaloosa that afternoon and was introduced as the head coach on Thursday. 

The news of Oats’ departure broke on Twitter around 4 p.m. on Wednesday. Oats’ players were informed by the athletic department in a meeting at the same time, according to The Buffalo News. Not by their former coach."

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15 minutes ago, Kevin said:

As expected:

"Oats walked onto the UB campus last Wednesday like he didn’t know he was leaving. He took a private jet with his family to Tuscaloosa that afternoon and was introduced as the head coach on Thursday. 

The news of Oats’ departure broke on Twitter around 4 p.m. on Wednesday. Oats’ players were informed by the athletic department in a meeting at the same time, according to The Buffalo News. Not by their former coach."

typical of a high school coach. Did you expect more?

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11 minutes ago, ButlerAlumDad said:

Did you expect more?

1000%

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Me too. Just can’t fugure this one out. 

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48 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

1000%

We all thought that coaching staff had class.  We are now realizing that they were classless.  It is worse than just having them hired away.  It is like they never even wanted to be here and didn't care for the people here.

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6 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

It is like they never even wanted to be here...

I got bad news for you - nobody wants to be coach of UB basketball per se. They might want the money, a promotion, a stepping stone, etc, but it's not a destination job, so you're going to be disappointed in that with every coach (unless you want them to blow smoke up your butt (and they do)). 

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6 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

We all thought that coaching staff had class.  We are now realizing that they were classless.  It is worse than just having them hired away.  It is like they never even wanted to be here and didn't care for the people here.

If that is the case, we could at least as a fanbase have grace.

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