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Reflecting On The 2023/2024 Men's Season And Discussing The Future.


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25 minutes ago, UBinMD said:

No, when Graham was granted the ability to play this season, basically the court ruling said there can't be transfer sit-outs anymore so anyone can go anywhere, anytime regardless of previous transfers or what year you are in. It's currently the wild west. Maybe it will change, but it will be a court ruling and I'm sure everyone already in the portal will be protected.

Only restriction upheld was they can’t transfer in-season and be eligible immediately. 

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3 minutes ago, DaBulls99 said:

Only restriction upheld was they can’t transfer in-season and be eligible immediately. 

What a devastating blow 🤣

It's only a matter of time before they figure out how to do a trade deadline for those P5 teams trying to make a march madness push and get some injuries. Sounds foolish, but I would not be surprised. 

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3 hours ago, UBinMD said:

What a devastating blow 🤣

It's only a matter of time before they figure out how to do a trade deadline for those P5 teams trying to make a march madness push and get some injuries. Sounds foolish, but I would not be surprised. 

Once the students become employees, the game is over anyways. No one will be able to afford ny workers compensation cost for football. UB will move athletics to d3/activity level anyways or we drop football. 

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On 3/29/2024 at 11:50 PM, TheCommish said:

Once the students become employees, the game is over anyways. No one will be able to afford ny workers compensation cost for football. UB will move athletics to d3/activity level anyways or we drop football. 

The relationship between the school and player is no different from Division I and Division III.  Both will fit the definition of employer-employee relationship under New York Workers' Compensation Law. https://store.lexisnexis.com/products/new-york-workers-compensation-handbook-2015-edition-skuusSku13149  (The link is to the 2024 Edition, due to be officially published in the next two weeks.)

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4 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:

The relationship between the school and player is no different from Division I and Division III.  Both will fit the definition of employer-employee relationship under New York Workers' Compensation Law. https://store.lexisnexis.com/products/new-york-workers-compensation-handbook-2015-edition-skuusSku13149  (The link is to the 2024 Edition, due to be officially published in the next two weeks.)

The workmans comp insurance on a football player has to be daunting, especially for 85 of them plus all the other guys. It would likely limit opportunity and rosters would likely get smaller. You can't pay premiums on dead wood because they can get hurt on the practice field as well.

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20 minutes ago, UBinMD said:

The workmans comp insurance on a football player has to be daunting, especially for 85 of them plus all the other guys. It would likely limit opportunity and rosters would likely get smaller. You can't pay premiums on dead wood because they can get hurt on the practice field as well.

It will be close to $4 million for football per year is what I was told when I asked experts and that makes sense with arena football team in Albany paying $1 million/year.

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4 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:

The relationship between the school and player is no different from Division I and Division III.  Both will fit the definition of employer-employee relationship under New York Workers' Compensation Law. https://store.lexisnexis.com/products/new-york-workers-compensation-handbook-2015-edition-skuusSku13149  (The link is to the 2024 Edition, due to be officially published in the next two weeks.)

Not if they go towards the activity model which is being discussed. Preferred admissions would be gone, preferred class registration would be gone, academic tutors would be gone.

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5 minutes ago, TheCommish said:

It will be close to $4 million for football per year is what I was told when I asked experts and that makes sense with arena football team in Albany paying $1 million/year.

Well there you go, if that happens. Mid/low level college football is dead. Back to a pseudo rec sport.

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18 minutes ago, UBinMD said:

Well there you go, if that happens. Mid/low level college football is dead. Back to a pseudo rec sport.

That’s why I don’t understand the urge to remove the track when we don’t know if we will have the sport. I can’t imagine any SUNY school having millions to cover the worker’s compensation cost.

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1 hour ago, TheCommish said:

That’s why I don’t understand the urge to remove the track when we don’t know if we will have the sport. I can’t imagine any SUNY school having millions to cover the worker’s compensation cost.

Almost all schools in the G5 down through FCS and Division 2 and 3 are in the same boat. Politicians won’t let that happen and the resulting Title 9 implications. Most student athletes don’t even want to be employees. Let’s just see where it goes. 

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Have heard that Halcovage has gone into this offseason with a slightly different team building mentality. He arrived at UB last year with the intention of building the program through young players and development. I think he's aware that he needs more veterans on this team. Whether or not he'll be successful in convincing experienced players to transfer to UB is another story.

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7 minutes ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

Have heard that Halcovage has gone into this offseason with a slightly different team building mentality. He arrived at UB last year with the intention of building the program through young players and development. I think he's aware that he needs more veterans on this team. Whether or not he'll be successful in convincing experienced players to transfer to UB is another story.

I think the lack of NIL will be a bit of a hinderance to that vision. I think that may be why he is focusing on some higher level D2 and Ivy guys where UB has some better prospects for them and money may not be the carrot they need (not that money isn't nice).

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1 hour ago, DaBulls99 said:

Almost all schools in the G5 down through FCS and Division 2 and 3 are in the same boat. Politicians won’t let that happen and the resulting Title 9 implications. Most student athletes don’t even want to be employees. Let’s just see where it goes. 

Too many sharks circling. We can either accept they will be employees or not. Not one person can tell us if title ix will matter if they’re employees. Title ix doesn’t matter when hiring happens.

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1 hour ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

Have heard that Halcovage has gone into this offseason with a slightly different team building mentality. He arrived at UB last year with the intention of building the program through young players and development. I think he's aware that he needs more veterans on this team. Whether or not he'll be successful in convincing experienced players to transfer to UB is another story.

We're adding four HS seniors and a sophomore and losing a senior and four juniors as it stands. Two open spots remain. Not sure I'm seeing any evidence of the strategy you describe.

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29 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

We're adding four HS seniors and a sophomore and losing a senior and four juniors as it stands. Two open spots remain. Not sure I'm seeing any evidence of the strategy you describe.

Might be the only approach with little to none NIL or “secretive/non public” NIL

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8 minutes ago, TheCommish said:

Might be the only approach with little to none NIL or “secretive/non public” NIL

Which approach? The one we're seeing so far this year getting even younger or the one reported that we're looking to add veterans? 

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1 hour ago, MuchMany said:

We're adding four HS seniors and a sophomore and losing a senior and four juniors as it stands. Two open spots remain. Not sure I'm seeing any evidence of the strategy you describe.

There's a difference between what they want to do and what they're actually able to do. They know their roster wasn't properly constructed this past season.

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1 hour ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

There's a difference between what they want to do and what they're actually able to do. They know their roster wasn't properly constructed this past season.

they constructed the best team they could afford. We have zero NIL. How will they build the roster without going the HS route and hoping for the best.

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2 hours ago, MuchMany said:

Which approach? The one we're seeing so far this year getting even younger or the one reported that we're looking to add veterans? 

we won't be able to add any veterans that anyone wants without NIL.

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59 minutes ago, TheCommish said:

they constructed the best team they could afford. We have zero NIL. How will they build the roster without going the HS route and hoping for the best.

The high school route was their strategy last offseason. They've been actively pursuing transfers since the portal opened. The NIL situation is getting addressed as well.

These are all reasons why I said recently that I have some optimism about their program heading into the future despite what happened this past season.

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4 hours ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

There's a difference between what they want to do and what they're actually able to do. They know their roster wasn't properly constructed this past season.

I’d hope so!

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9 hours ago, TheCommish said:

we won't be able to add any veterans that anyone wants without NIL.

Lots of our peers and programs with less resources but better teams than us this past year in the same boat. Bowling Green won 20 games with a brand new coach. Think they’re handing out stacks of cash?

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19 hours ago, TheCommish said:

That’s why I don’t understand the urge to remove the track when we don’t know if we will have the sport. I can’t imagine any SUNY school having millions to cover the worker’s compensation cost.

Actually, SUNY would be in better shape than most to handle workers' compensation.  The State of New York for all intents and purposes is a self insured employer through the State Insurance Fund.  Syracuse, although a self-insured employer would have issues because they would have to increase the value of surety bonds given to New York State to cover athletes. A school like Colgate or Hobart would have major issues.  The you would have Army and the Merchant Marine Academy exempt from workers' compensation liability in New York State because they are federal.

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2 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:

Actually, SUNY would be in better shape than most to handle workers' compensation.  The State of New York for all intents and purposes is a self insured employer through the State Insurance Fund.  Syracuse, although a self-insured employer would have issues because they would have to increase the value of surety bonds given to New York State to cover athletes. A school like Colgate or Hobart would have major issues.  The you would have Army and the Merchant Marine Academy exempt from workers' compensation liability in New York State because they are federal.

It might be become a double edge sword for the now paid student athletes. Workers comp maxes out at around $1200 wk or 2/3 of pay. Imagine a player getting injured and the scholarship went from 100% to 66%.  It could end up saving schools money and also making them more willing to bench a player for being injured and paying them less. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, BrooklynBull said:

Actually, SUNY would be in better shape than most to handle workers' compensation.  The State of New York for all intents and purposes is a self insured employer through the State Insurance Fund.  Syracuse, although a self-insured employer would have issues because they would have to increase the value of surety bonds given to New York State to cover athletes. A school like Colgate or Hobart would have major issues.  The you would have Army and the Merchant Marine Academy exempt from workers' compensation liability in New York State because they are federal.

Army’s athletic staff are not employees of the federal government. 
 

What would be the cost to UB for football then?

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