Conference Realignment

[promotherobot]

1 hour ago, dutchcountry7 said:

We knew we weren't going to be considered from day one.

The American Conference set a strategic vision a few years ago and made the decision that they will be a southern based conference.  The believe that football is the driving force that matters and that demographic shifts will make the south even bigger moving forward.  They look at Syracuse, BC, and other northern schools and don't see the interest in football. 

It was known that they would only be considering Southern schools.  Temple isn't going to get any regional partner.

And the reality is that App State is delivering.  Look at their Wednesday night win against Coastal.  They sold out the stadium and had a huge crowd on a Wednesday night.  Their fans are engaged.

Yes, Buffalo is a bigger media market than Boone but media markets don't matter anymore.  Streaming and national broadcasts have changed the game.  If it is a national broadcast then the media market size doesn't matter.  It's more about general interest.  And if you're not on national TV then it is about streaming viewership and App State has some very energetic and loyal fans.

Rice seems like an odd ball but that serves their Southern Strategy.  It gives them a presence in Houston where teams want to be able to recruit and it continues some Texas rivalries.

I have said it before and I will say it again.  UB should be in a conference with Temple and UMass.  Those should be the peer schools we should be with.  But even they don't have a good fit.  It's unfortunate but if we are going to be in a conference then the MAC is our only option.

The American isn't what it use to be.  Travel would have killed the budget and other than a few schools there wouldn't be been a step up in games.  

There aren't enough Northeast schools floating loose to make a conference. UB, UMass and Temple is a start. UCONN maybe but just for football. Basketball is happy in the Big East. Army? Possibly. After that, I can't think of anyone other than FCS schools like URI, Maine and UNH. Or maybe SUNY centers like Albany, Binghamton and Stoney Brook?

[clodney]

Dutch is right. Boone, North Carolina metro has just over 50k people and managed 31k (103% of capacity) fans for the App St game against Coastal Carolina. Buffalo, NY has 1.125Million people and our game against the same Coastal team brought out 16k - and it looked like nearly all of them were students.

There's one huge difference between these cities outside of their general population - there is NOTHING ELSE to do in Boone, NC. It is THE big ticket in town and people come from all over to attend games. Our city is too preoccupied with the Bills to possibly pay any attention to the Bulls. I am still convinced of that.

Edited October 25, 2021 by clodney

[dutchcountry7]

1 hour ago, promotherobot said:

There aren't enough Northeast schools floating loose to make a conference. UB, UMass and Temple is a start. UCONN maybe but just for football. Basketball is happy in the Big East. Army? Possibly. After that, I can't think of anyone other than FCS schools like URI, Maine and UNH. Or maybe SUNY centers like Albany, Binghamton and Stoney Brook?

UMass won't leave the A10.

UConn won't leave the Big East to play the teams you mentioned (would probably be interested in a football only membership though).

Army may be interested in football only membership.

Temple won't leave the American for the conference you proposed unless UConn basketball came into the fold. (They won't give up games with Memphis and Wichita State for the ones proposed.

Even with those numbers you still don't have enough for a conference.

And there is the issue that you can't start a new conference and get auto-bids to the NCAA tournament without continuity.  So if a new all-sports conference was formed then our basketball team wouldn't have a path to the NCAA tournament for a few years.  I think it takes four years of playing as a conference to get an auto-bid granted to you.  The only way to get bids to a new conference is to split off from an established conference and you have to take six or seven schools with you.

This isn't possible because all of the schools we are talking about are all in other conferences.  It isn't like when the New Big East broke off from the American and took half the teams with them.

Sure, we could try to get America East schools to break off to form a new conference.  But do you think it helps UB to be in the same conference as the rest of the SUNYs?  We lose that advantage if we are all in the same conference.  And do you think UMass, UConn, and Temple want to be in a new version of the America East?  

[UBlearns]

7 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

UMass won't leave the A10.

UConn won't leave the Big East to play the teams you mentioned (would probably be interested in a football only membership though).

Army may be interested in football only membership.

Temple won't leave the American for the conference you proposed unless UConn basketball came into the fold. (They won't give up games with Memphis and Wichita State for the ones proposed.

Even with those numbers you still don't have enough for a conference.

And there is the issue that you can't start a new conference and get auto-bids to the NCAA tournament without continuity.  So if a new all-sports conference was formed then our basketball team wouldn't have a path to the NCAA tournament for a few years.  I think it takes four years of playing as a conference to get an auto-bid granted to you.  The only way to get bids to a new conference is to split off from an established conference and you have to take six or seven schools with you.

This isn't possible because all of the schools we are talking about are all in other conferences.  It isn't like when the New Big East broke off from the American and took half the teams with them.

Sure, we could try to get America East schools to break off to form a new conference.  But do you think it helps UB to be in the same conference as the rest of the SUNYs?  We lose that advantage if we are all in the same conference.  And do you think UMass, UConn, and Temple want to be in a new version of the America East?  

This is basically what I was thinking.  UConn basketball is a plus, Army football is a plus, and Temple's programs are a plus.  The rest of that is frankly far worse than the MAC, and UConn/Army would never join that conference for basketball/football (respectively).

And if you think UB is a geographical outlier now, it's just as much a geographical outlier in a proposed conference like this.  Buffalo to Binghamton is about the same drive as Akron/Kent, Buffalo to Albany is about the same as Toledo/BG, Buffalo to Amherst (UMass) about the same as Ohio.

Hell, the only two MAC schools that are a further drive (per Google Maps) than Stony Brook are CMU (by 10 minutes - and that's assuming they have to drive in the US only and can't cross the border through Canada), and NIU, which is a fair point and a 2-hour further trip.

[dutchcountry7]

12 minutes ago, UBlearns said:

This is basically what I was thinking.  UConn basketball is a plus, Army football is a plus, and Temple's programs are a plus.  The rest of that is frankly far worse than the MAC, and UConn/Army would never join that conference for basketball/football (respectively).

And if you think UB is a geographical outlier now, it's just as much a geographical outlier in a proposed conference like this.  Buffalo to Binghamton is about the same drive as Akron/Kent, Buffalo to Albany is about the same as Toledo/BG, Buffalo to Amherst (UMass) about the same as Ohio.

Hell, the only two MAC schools that are a further drive (per Google Maps) than Stony Brook are CMU (by 10 minutes - and that's assuming they have to drive in the US only and can't cross the border through Canada), and NIU, which is a fair point and a 2-hour further trip.

Yup.  The ideal conference for UB would be something like:

- Buffalo

- Ohio U

- Miami-OH

- Toledo

- Kent State

- Marshall

- UMass

- UConn

- Temple

- Army (football only)

 

This would be the perfect balance of geography and talent for UB right now and would make a nice conference for basketball and football with perfect locations for recruiting.

But there is no reason for the other schools to move to a conference that makes UB the center of the conference. 

[UB92]

1 hour ago, clodney said:

Dutch is right. Boone, North Carolina metro has just over 50k people and managed 31k (103% of capacity) fans for the App St game against Coastal Carolina. Buffalo, NY has 1.125Million people and our game against the same Coastal team brought out 16k - and it looked like nearly all of them were students.

There's one huge difference between these cities outside of their general population - there is NOTHING ELSE to do in Boone, NC. It is THE big ticket in town and people come from all over to attend games. Our city is too preoccupied with the Bills to possibly pay any attention to the Bulls. I am still convinced of that.

There is a lot to the "there is nothing else to do" argument.    Certainly Boone benefits from that.  Many other places benefit from that as well.

 

But, of course, it doesn't preclude a program from having attendance success in a larger market, like Buffalo.  It just hasn't happened yet, for a variety of reasons.

I categorically reject the notion that it can't happen (as several people, here and elsewhere, are obsessed to point out).  It could happen...but the right strategy (and I use that word in a very broad way) has not been identified and/or implemented.

 

[dutchcountry7]

16 minutes ago, UB92 said:

There is a lot to the "there is nothing else to do" argument.    Certainly Boone benefits from that.  Many other places benefit from that as well.

 

But, of course, it doesn't preclude a program from having attendance success in a larger market, like Buffalo.  It just hasn't happened yet, for a variety of reasons.

I categorically reject the notion that it can't happen (as several people, here and elsewhere, are obsessed to point out).  It could happen...but the right strategy (and I use that word in a very broad way) has not been identified and/or implemented.

 

It absolutely can happen at UB.

But there is no doubt that the strategies that have been employed are generic ones that try to replicate what seems to have worked elsewhere and are not ones that work for UB's unique situation.

App State has captured students.  That is how they were able to benefit.  They had nothing to do as students and so they went to football games.  Students went to "small time" FCS games and the school made it feel big time.  And they produced winners in FCS.  Those students returned to campus to see their friends and did so when the leaves would change in the Fall.  The most beautiful time in Boone I have been told. (Never been myself.)  Over the years alums would continue to make the trips back to campus in the fall as it could be a nice weekend getaway to the mountains.  The same way UB fans might go to Letchworth, ADK, or the Catskills.

And when those fans return to Boone they would catch a football game.  They would stay semi engaged, if not fully engaged.  And because football was a success and something people shared they would talk about it with other alums even if they didn't follow the program closely themselves.  "How is the team doing this year?  I was thinking of heading up for a game next month."

Over the decades this built.  And when they moved to FBS there was a backing of casual and loyal fans to build a base around.  But now they actually had something to really get behind.  It was now the big time.  (Sure, the Michigan win really helped.)

UB has a very different situation.  Buffalo is not seen as a destination for a fall getaway.  Much of the alumni is downstate.

The locals in the region who follow football are largely die hard Bills fans who already dedicate their weekends to watching the Bills.  They don't have time available to be UB fans and get their fall chores done and spend time with the family.  They will casually observe and might watch some of a game if it is on TV but they aren't planning a day around it and aren't planning a trip for it.

I absolutely believe that UB can get there but the strategy and vision has been gimmicky and trying for a quick start which just isn't going to happen.  It requires an unconventional approach for UB's unique situation.  

[Tee4three]

The football stadium is absolutely miserable. The stadium gets fixed the crowd will come

College football in the north especially in pro football towns will always be a tough draw. The weather is a killer. Does the die hard football fan in buffalo want to spend both Saturday and Sunday in 30 degree weather out doors on a weekend? 

Would a roofed facility be beneficial? (If money wasn't an issue)

[dutchcountry7]

20 minutes ago, Tee4three said:

The football stadium is absolutely miserable. The stadium gets fixed the crowd will come

College football in the north especially in pro football towns will always be a tough draw. The weather is a killer. Does the die hard football fan in buffalo want to spend both Saturday and Sunday in 30 degree weather out doors on a weekend? 

Would a roofed facility be beneficial? (If money wasn't an issue)

The facility is a major issue.  
 

I would much rather have the stadiums at Albany or Stony Brook. 
 

Removing the track doesn’t solve the problem. 
 

The problem is that the seats are just too far away.  
 

Lower the field and you can add 8 rows of seating but you’re still left with  20,000 seats no one wants to sit in. 

[CheerUB80/84]

9 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Yup.  The ideal conference for UB would be something like:

- Buffalo

- Ohio U

- Miami-OH

- Toledo

- Kent State

- Marshall

- UMass

- UConn

- Temple

- Army (football only)

 

This would be the perfect balance of geography and talent for UB right now and would make a nice conference for basketball and football with perfect locations for recruiting.

But there is no reason for the other schools to move to a conference that makes UB the center of the conference. 

How about adding Iona College (basketball only) Downstate for NYC, Long Island And Westchester Alumni 

Edited October 26, 2021 by CheerUB80/84

[dutchcountry7]

8 hours ago, CheerUB80/84 said:

How about adding Iona College (basketball only) Downstate for NYC, Long Island And Westchester Alumni 

No.  
 

There would be zero reason to add them.  They add no value to a conference that UB would be in.  
 

That doesn’t mean you don’t play OOC games downstate though.  Just no value in Iona. 

[Gxtrex]

25 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

No.  
 

There would be zero reason to add them.  They add no value to a conference that UB would be in.  
 

That doesn’t mean you don’t play OOC games downstate though.  Just no value in Iona. 

Why don't they play ooc games downstate? 

[dutchcountry7]

1 minute ago, Gxtrex said:

Why don't they play ooc games downstate? 

*Shrugs*
 

One of the great mysteries that makes no logical sense when you market yourself as the flagship State Public Powerhouse. 

[clodney]

1 hour ago, Gxtrex said:

Why don't they play ooc games downstate? 

The locals made it very clear that UB doesn't represent anything East of ROC. 

[DooleyBull06]

1 hour ago, clodney said:

The locals made it very clear that UB doesn't represent anything East of ROC. 

That’s a shame from a recruiting standpoint and marketing standpoint. 

[UB92]

21 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

It absolutely can happen at UB.

UB has a very different situation.  Buffalo is not seen as a destination for a fall getaway.  Much of the alumni is downstate.  

Imagine trying to capture that massive downstate alumni audience in some way (considering they aren't driving 8 hours to a game)...

If only someone tried that...   

 

At any rate, the stadium is not a good experience and that needs to be worked on -- wherever it may end up.

I may not be alive to see the next (large) steps of UB athletics, but at least I got to see them win a bowl game in my lifetime AND win some games in the NCAA tournament.  20 years ago, that seemed like a pipedream.

 

 

[BrooklynBull]

5 hours ago, Gxtrex said:

Why don't they play ooc games downstate? 

Very simple money.  UB would like home and home games.  However, there are so many schools in so many conferences in the New York metro area that there is no need to spend the money, even for a bus, plus hotel rooms to play UB.  Whey spend all of the money to go to UB?

America East: 2

Atlantic 10: 1

Big East: 2 (not counting UConn)

Colonial: 1

Ivy: 1

MAAC: 6

Northeast: 5

Patriot: 1

With all of these schools to choose from why would they do a home and home?  For the schools in the MAAC why would they want to make a second trip to Buffalo?  Wagner could literally have a travel party of 25 and play at LIU and St. Francis for a total of $275.00.

[dutchcountry7]

2 hours ago, clodney said:

The locals made it very clear that UB doesn't represent anything East of ROC. 

This is a cop out.  
 

The push to remove the Buffalo name was a poor plan that was clunky and had the worst execution. 
 

Buffalo is the name of the school. Just like Syracuse is the name of a school.  That doesn’t stop the Orange from playing in NYC to reach an alumni base.  The same with how many other schools play games in large metro areas where they have a large concentration of alumni.  

The athletic department never made a push to reach alumni by bringing the teams to them.  The thinking was that the team needed to play home games to try to cultivate local fans (while trying to remove the Buffalo brand at the same time).    
 

And the idea was that it was more important to get a paycheck from the highest bidder no matter where they were located and only play other mid-majors in tournaments if they couldn’t get into top tournaments. 
 

The issue was that the strategy wasn’t consistent.  They were constantly at odds with their strategy as it changed constantly based on whatever they wanted at any given moment. 
 

Think about it…

 

(1) We are New York’s team and need to drop the Buffalo brand because it holds us back from down state alums caring about us but (2) we need to have a major push to engage the local fans and sponsors because they are the lifeblood that will keep the program alive.
 

(1) We need to make sure that we brand ourselves as New York’s team to gain favor with downstate so they will follow the team but (2) we need to play games in Texas against big name schools because that will get people in Texas familiar with the the Buffalo brand.  
 

(1) We need to play a non-D1 team every season because we don’t have the budget to play anyone else but (2) we can’t play a home/home with Hofstra, Albany, or Iona in front of alumni because they aren’t big time enough. 
 

(1) We need to play games that get on Regional sports networks in California and Florida because that will get people familiar with Buffalo who haven’t heard of them but (2) can’t play games against Siena, Colgate, or Cornell that will be shown across New York on cable because it will only reach people in the Eastern part of the state or downstate despite being New York’s Public Powerhouse.  

 

(1) We need to focus on recruiting in the Great Lakes region because that’s where our conference is located and where recruits are familiar with us but (2) need to drop the Buffalo brand because it makes the alumni and prospective students down state seem like they are we are in the Midwest.  
 

(1) Need to play a game against Canisius at Key Bank Center so that we are in front of our fans who don’t travel to Amherst while getting experience playing in a game that mimics the NCAA tournament but can’t play a home/home deal with Fairfield (Webster Bank Arena) which would be closer to the alumni base. 
 

 

[dutchcountry7]

24 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said:

Very simple money.  UB would like home and home games.  However, there are so many schools in so many conferences in the New York metro area that there is no need to spend the money, even for a bus, plus hotel rooms to play UB.  Whey spend all of the money to go to UB?

America East: 2

Atlantic 10: 1

Big East: 2 (not counting UConn)

Colonial: 1

Ivy: 1

MAAC: 6

Northeast: 5

Patriot: 1

With all of these schools to choose from why would they do a home and home?  For the schools in the MAAC why would they want to make a second trip to Buffalo?  Wagner could literally have a travel party of 25 and play at LIU and St. Francis for a total of $275.00.

That only accounts for a few games.
 

They aren’t filling up their home/home slate with subway rides.

UB hasn’t wanted these games.  Most of the NYC area schools would love to get a home game against a team of our quality.  

A sampling from 2019 season (season before Covid):

Hofstra played home/home deals with CSU Fullerton, Bucknell, and Kennesaw State.  
 

Marist played at Stetson and New Hampshire because both offered a home/home deal.  The only NYC team they played was LIU and that was in a tournament (same tournament that brought Marist to Buffalo). 
 

Columbia went to Colgate, Binghamton, and Delaware. Despite already playing at neighboring Cornell and Penn every year.

Fordham was in the middle of a home/home with ETSU and Maine. (Though they don’t travel a lot because they have money and need wins.)
 
Stony Brook played at Norfolk State in a home/home. 

St Pete’s played a home/home with Hampton.  
 

Wagner was in the middle of a home/home with American and Lowell. 
 

St Francis Brooklyn played home/homes with Presbyterian, Delaware State, and Longwood. 

There are a few teams that tend to stay in the greater metro NYC area but most play a handful of games outside to get their team some quality games and get in front of recruits in other cities. 

[dutchcountry7]

1 hour ago, UB92 said:

Imagine trying to capture that massive downstate alumni audience in some way (considering they aren't driving 8 hours to a game)...

If only someone tried that...   

 

At any rate, the stadium is not a good experience and that needs to be worked on -- wherever it may end up.

I may not be alive to see the next (large) steps of UB athletics, but at least I got to see them win a bowl game in my lifetime AND win some games in the NCAA tournament.  20 years ago, that seemed like a pipedream.

 

 

Don’t need to capture the massive NYC audience. 
 

Just need to engage the former True Blue members who now live downstate and have them come to one game a year in NYC and give a little money to the program every year. 
 

That alone would lead to a substantial increase in donations to the program, increase in viewership on streaming services (which is a metric used for conference realignment), increase in engagement between alumni and fans in the NYC area (creating a downstate booster chapter stronghold) which would end up with the teams getting invited to the showcase events at Barclays and MSG that you see Iona, Hofstra, and Monmouth getting invited to from time to time where they get to play major programs. 
 

It’s a snowball.  Yes, it will start small. But every year you build on it.  That’s how you build a fan base.  You can’t jump around with no vision and strategy.  
 

[UB92]

1 hour ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Don’t need to capture the massive NYC audience. 
 

Just need to engage the former True Blue members who now live downstate and have them come to one game a year in NYC and give a little money to the program every year. 
 

That alone would lead to a substantial increase in donations to the program, increase in viewership on streaming services (which is a metric used for conference realignment), increase in engagement between alumni and fans in the NYC area (creating a downstate booster chapter stronghold) which would end up with the teams getting invited to the showcase events at Barclays and MSG that you see Iona, Hofstra, and Monmouth getting invited to from time to time where they get to play major programs. 
 

It’s a snowball.  Yes, it will start small. But every year you build on it.  That’s how you build a fan base.  You can’t jump around with no vision and strategy.  
 

That's not a snowball...that's a snowflake.   Our robot overlords will be well in place before we get to a reasonable fanbase using what you mention.

[dutchcountry7]

1 hour ago, UB92 said:

That's not a snowball...that's a snowflake.   Our robot overlords will be well in place before we get to a reasonable fanbase using what you mention.

You’re wrong

Leta assume that this is simply limited to the “True Blue” and not simply a proxy for former people who had an affiliation with or interest in UB who now live in the metro area.  

True Blue was established in 2007.  It’s been around for nearly 15 years and there are thousands of students who join each year of which approximately 25% are freshmen—a proxy for graduation year. 

That’s somewhere in the ballpark of 10,000 former True Blue members who are no longer at UB.

If only 5% of those members who have since left school are now located in the metro area (a low number for sure), then that would be 500 people. 
 

But they aren’t likely to attend a game alone.  Some will bring friends and family.  2,000 people would be over 10% of capacity at MSG or Barclays Center.  
 

That’s more than the traveling team allotment of tickets for any midMajor in the NYC area and is enough fans to give UB the home court advantage.  I would love to see UB fans take over a road game, even if if is against LIU, Hofstra, Columbia, or some other school we don't consider to be our peer.
 

Of course not all of these people would go to one game.  But we also wouldn’t be limiting the prospective fans to only former True Blue members especially considering most people here were probably never a member.  
 

There are many people who would attend. Graduates from the 90s, long before the True Blue existed would bring their kids.  Graduates from the 70s would bring their grand kids.  

If the games are on breaks you’d have current students from the metro area meeting up to catch the game.  Possibly with their parents or just Westchester kids meeting their friends from Long Island at the game.  
 

You may scoff at 500 people attending a road game but I can tell you that it is a solid start and is how you build a great base.  And your attitude is part of the problem with the lack of vision.
 

Let’s put it another way, Hofstra got to host Kentucky in a home game at Barclays center in 2017 (in front of a crowd of 7,500 mostly Kentucky fans) all because the promoter knew Hofstra could sell a few thousand tickets to their alumni for a big game.  That assurance of a few tickets made it so there wasn't risk for the promoter.  Hofstra home games averaged 1,800 people that year.  
 

The same exact thing happened in 2018 when Monmouth got to host Kentucky at Madison Square Garden in front of a crowd of 10,000 people because the promoters knew that Monmouth could sell a few thousand tickets despite only averaging 2,300 fans a game to their home games and the game being an hour away from campus. 
 

This is the exact same way that Manhattan College got to play South Carolina and LIU got to play Temple each in NBA arenas in a city with their alumni base.  The same way that Fordham is hosting Miami at Barclays this year. 
 

The Bulls have got the call before but not delivered and that’s because it hasn’t been cultivated.  You need to lay the ground work to get there.  You can’t snap your fingers and expect people to care. 

I don't know about you but I would be okay with hosting a home game with Florida in NYC.   I wouldn't mind having to play a neutral site game against UConn where they were at the (relative) home court advantage of playing in NYC.  

The New York team lines were always lines.  I am of the opinion that we need to act like New York's Public Powerhouse and actually walk the walk to build it.  Not just try to pretend that our name is New York.   We are The University at BUFFALO and we are New York's Public Powerhouse.  And that means being able to attract fans in the largest city in the state.   If that happens then we will be getting games with top programs in NYC.  And from there we can grow to home games.

Edited October 26, 2021 by dutchcountry7

[CheerUB80/84]

1 hour ago, UB92 said:

That's not a snowball...that's a snowflake.   Our robot overlords will be well in place before we get to a reasonable fanbase using what you mention.

I agree with everyone saying bring UB downstate.  I do not think we need a home and home even.  One game a year during Thanksgiving or Christmas break. Then you get some Alumni and some current Students.  Make it an annual thing and it builds on itself

[dutchcountry7]

5 minutes ago, CheerUB80/84 said:

I agree with everyone saying bring UB downstate.  I do not think we need a home and home even.  One game a year during Thanksgiving or Christmas break. Then you get some Alumni and some current Students.  Make it an annual thing and it builds on itself

No home/home?  

You want to give away a game?

Who do you propose to play?  Where do you propose to play?

 

[DocCas86]

44 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

You’re wrong

Leta assume that this is simply limited to the “True Blue” and not simply a proxy for former people who had an affiliation with or interest in UB who now live in the metro area.  

True Blue was established in 2007.  It’s been around for nearly 15 years and there are thousands of students who join each year of which approximately 25% are freshmen—a proxy for graduation year. 

That’s somewhere in the ballpark of 10,000 former True Blue members who are no longer at UB.

If only 5% of those members who have since left school are now located in the metro area (a low number for sure), then that would be 500 people. 
 

But they aren’t likely to attend a game alone.  Some will bring friends and family.  2,000 people would be over 10% of capacity at MSG or Barclays Center.  
 

That’s more than the traveling team allotment of tickets for any midMajor in the NYC area and is enough fans to give UB the home court advantage.  I would love to see UB fans take over a road game, even if if is against LIU, Hofstra, Columbia, or some other school we don't consider to be our peer.
 

Of course not all of these people would go to one game.  But we also wouldn’t be limiting the prospective fans to only former True Blue members especially considering most people here were probably never a member.  
 

There are many people who would attend. Graduates from the 90s, long before the True Blue existed would bring their kids.  Graduates from the 70s would bring their grand kids.  

If the games are on breaks you’d have current students from the metro area meeting up to catch the game.  Possibly with their parents or just Westchester kids meeting their friends from Long Island at the game.  
 

You may scoff at 500 people attending a road game but I can tell you that it is a solid start and is how you build a great base.  And your attitude is part of the problem with the lack of vision.
 

Let’s put it another way, Hofstra got to host Kentucky in a home game at Barclays center in 2017 (in front of a crowd of 7,500 mostly Kentucky fans) all because the promoter knew Hofstra could sell a few thousand tickets to their alumni for a big game.  That assurance of a few tickets made it so there wasn't risk for the promoter.  Hofstra home games averaged 1,800 people that year.  
 

The same exact thing happened in 2018 when Monmouth got to host Kentucky at Madison Square Garden in front of a crowd of 10,000 people because the promoters knew that Monmouth could sell a few thousand tickets despite only averaging 2,300 fans a game to their home games and the game being an hour away from campus. 
 

This is the exact same way that Manhattan College got to play South Carolina and LIU got to play Temple each in NBA arenas in a city with their alumni base.  The same way that Fordham is hosting Miami at Barclays this year. 
 

The Bulls have got the call before but not delivered and that’s because it hasn’t been cultivated.  You need to lay the ground work to get there.  You can’t snap your fingers and expect people to care. 

I don't know about you but I would be okay with hosting a home game with Florida in NYC.   I wouldn't mind having to play a neutral site game against UConn where they were at the (relative) home court advantage of playing in NYC.  

The New York team lines were always lines.  I am of the opinion that we need to act like New York's Public Powerhouse and actually walk the walk to build it.  Not just try to pretend that our name is New York.   We are The University at BUFFALO and we are New York's Public Powerhouse.  And that means being able to attract fans in the largest city in the state.   If that happens then we will be getting games with top programs in NYC.  And from there we can grow to home games.

How about a game against Alabama instead of Florida?