Miami (OH) @ UB MBB. 7 PM. 1/9.

[Tee4three]

3 minutes ago, RapidsFan said:

GH clapping when they're down by 20+ is obnoxious

Strong "win or lose, I'm buying you all ice cream" energy

Besides a couple players the entire team is really young and at this point trying to take anything to build on is the right move. It's the first time playing a D1 season for most

But yeah a team of seniors and experienced players yeah major ice cream vibes 

[RapidsFan]

.

Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[UB Horns Up]

2 hours ago, Ubbullsfan09 said:

What do you want him to do, be an emotionless statue on the sideline? I’d much prefer a coach with energy and passion than one like Whitesell

It means zero if George Halcovage jumped up and down with emotion. You need to be able to coach which he can’t. You need to be able to recruit which goes back to George Halcovage can’t coach. He has no idea what he’s is doing and things aren’t going to be all that much different next season. The UB Bulls should cut there losses now fire George Halcovage and make Turner Battle the new UB Bulls head coach tomorrow. I would rather lose with a UB man Turner Battle if I am going to lose and have on the job coaching training. I have seen enough of George Halcovage era it’s just not going to happen for him here at Buffalo. Hire Turner Battle and move on in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[enrique14150]

I was pretty optimistic at halftime.  Down 2, pretty even game, they were hitting some outside shots.  Then Miami shot the lights out in the second half.  A couple stats stood out - Miami shot 65% for the game.  That's obscene.  You pretty much can't lose if you're shooting that well.  UB slightly beat Miami on rebounds, but Miami won the points in the paint 56-38.  I had a feeling a few weeks ago that UB was going to have a big problem in the MAC against some of these teams that could out-match them inside, and this was one of them.

Fulcher - I've been tough on him, maybe too much for a freshman, but he had his best game so far tonight.  He took care of the basketball a bit better, and used his speed to the basket to great effect.  Keep it up.
Adams - one of his worst games. Nothing was working.
Smith - he works so hard.  I really want to see him do well.  He's winning some good second chance rebounds for them.
Sabol - continues to improve. Getting more confident with his shooting and his release looks quicker.
Chatman - pretty invisible today.
McVeigh - actually hit a couple of his shots today. Playing with some more confidence.

Miami - I was really impressed last year by Mirambeaux, and he impressed again this time.  His touch around the net is excellent.  It left me wondering if he dropped 20 pounds, would he be able to play more than half the game? Or would that take away from some of his effectiveness?

Crowd - about what you expect for a 2-win team, on a weeknight, with bad weather, and the students are still on break.  Every game we enjoy the look-back-in-time Castle 'Clean the Glass' trivia, and they screwed it up, using Shannon Evans' picture while describing Mitchell Watt.  Come on, guys.

Halcovage - I'm one of those who doesn't care if the coach yells and screams or not.  Maybe because I coach kids and adults and I don't yell and scream (though I have my moments, they're rare) and I don't think it has anything to do with my effectiveness.  Everyone has their own style.  I get why some people want to see some kind of response or reaction to games like these.  But I don't think for a minute that he doesn't care, or cares any more or less than a lunatic like Hurley.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.
 

[DocCas86]

I wonder what is going on with Adams, his stats are well below what he contributed last year (last year MAC - 52.3% eFG%, 36.7% from 3, 12.8 ppg).  Is he still not 100% physically, are other teams defending him tighter or is he not playing with confidence.  Hopefully he returns to last year's level, and produces at the level commensurate with his ability.  This team needs him scoring more efficiently to be competitive.

[trueblue32]

1 hour ago, DocCas86 said:

I wonder what is going on with Adams, his stats are well below what he contributed last year (last year MAC - 52.3% eFG%, 36.7% from 3, 12.8 ppg).  Is he still not 100% physically, are other teams defending him tighter or is he not playing with confidence.  Hopefully he returns to last year's level, and produces at the level commensurate with his ability.  This team needs him scoring more efficiently to be competitive.

I think the fact of the matter is that he's just a better ancillary piece than he is a lead player. Too much is being asked of most players on this team due to the low talent level and the fact that we're not scheming our way out of talent deficits. Last year 62.8% of Adams' baskets (not shots) were assisted, down to 45.2% this year. I'm sure if there was a way to calculate "potential assists" on shots rather than makes the decrease would be greater than that. Please go rewatch the ATO with 33 seconds left in the first half and tell me what Halcovage drew up there. The highlight of the game for me was my brother's comment "UB thought they were getting Jay Wright, but they got Jay Wrong"

Edited January 10 by trueblue32

[trueblue32]

To expound on my previous point, for all of our players who have D1 experience (with some small sample caveats):


Everybody's offensive rating has gone down compared to their previous D1 season, except for Zaakir Williamson, who is notably the only player who hasn't had an increase in usage. Sy Chatman is the only player whose percentage of makes assisted has increased (I suspect this mostly to be due to a decrease in his offensive rebounding rate, which eliminates some unassisted putbacks). This is an indictment on the general talent level, notably at the PG position, as well as Halcovage not making up for it in anyway schematically.

[UBinMD]

34 minutes ago, trueblue32 said:

I think the fact of the matter is that he's just a better ancillary piece than he is a lead player. Too much is being asked of most players on this team due to the low talent level and the fact that we're not scheming our way out of talent deficits. Last year 62.8% of Adams' baskets (not shots) were assisted, down to 45.2% this year. I'm sure if there was a way to calculate "potential assists" on shots rather than makes the decrease would be greater than that. Please go rewatch the ATO with 33 seconds left in the first half and tell me what Halcovage drew up there. The highlight of the game for me was my brother's comment "UB thought they were getting Jay Wright, but they got Jay Wrong"

I felt Curtis Jones was in a similar situation his last year with us. He was a very good player, but not THE MAN type. He is a good piece, but you need that guy that has the confidence to hit the shot or take over during a small stretch to get things back in order. Sy Chatman has done that a bit, but inconsistently. Our biggest issue is we need all 5 guys to contribute every night to have a chance. Getting 3 out of 5 is not going to cut it unfortunately. 

[MuchMany]

1 hour ago, trueblue32 said:

The highlight of the game for me was my brother's comment "UB thought they were getting Jay Wright, but they got Jay Wrong"

That's way too clever and damning a nickname to be deployed yet. However, next year at this time I may be stealing it if things remain the same.

We don't have the requisite talent to compete at this level. The freshmen are decent and the returning JW guys are decent. There's a missing middle of playable, experienced transfers that GH3 failed to supplement the roster with. At minimum grad transfer PG and a Maceo Jack-style wing shooter.

[enrique14150]

Great points about some of these guys - if they're able to carry more of the play themselves, if they need better players around them, and if they've improved.

I don't know if this year to last year is an appropriate 'apples to apples' comparison, but some of the roster did carry over.  The lost Jones and Jack but gained Chatman, lost Zid but gained Sabol, lost Caesar but gained Fulcher. They got a lot more production from Adams. They had a lot of the same problems inside, but this year they're missing Jack and Hardnett and didn't seem to replace them besides Chatman - is that the difference?  The talent level didn't seem great last year (especially compared to so many previous teams) but it seems a lot lower this year...is it really?  Did they actually get a lot more out of that group last year than others would've? Or are these guys getting much less or as much as expected out of this group? I agree with all that say there just isn't the talent there right now to compete (though I am optimistic about the progress of the freshmen Sabol, Boldin, and Fulcher).  But it made me think, was there all that much talent last year? Did that .500 team overachieve based on its actual talent, or is this one underachieving.  Statistically trueblue32 just showed that there are guys that have actually done better than they are this year.  There are some guys on this team where I shrug and think, they're probably not going to get any better, they are what they are.  At the MAC level you can get some really raw players as freshmen but with good, consistent coaching in a good culture, if they stay 4 years they can become really solid players.  Calvin Cage (who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn his freshman year), John Boyer (who became statistically one of the most efficient point guards in the country his senior year) come to mind.  I think the program hit on some guys talent-wise - Jones, Skogman, Jack - and in today's NCAA they take offers out of here.

Edited January 10 by enrique14150

[skrabukes]

50 minutes ago, enrique14150 said:

Great points about some of these guys - if they're able to carry more of the play themselves, if they need better players around them, and if they've improved.

I don't know if this year to last year is an appropriate 'apples to apples' comparison, but some of the roster did carry over.  The lost Jones and Jack but gained Chatman, lost Zid but gained Sabol, lost Caesar but gained Fulcher. They got a lot more production from Adams. They had a lot of the same problems inside, but this year they're missing Jack and Hardnett and didn't seem to replace them besides Chatman - is that the difference?  The talent level didn't seem great last year (especially compared to so many previous teams) but it seems a lot lower this year...is it really?  Did they actually get a lot more out of that group last year than others would've? Or are these guys getting much less or as much as expected out of this group? I agree with all that say there just isn't the talent there right now to compete (though I am optimistic about the progress of the freshmen Sabol, Boldin, and Fulcher).  But it made me think, was there all that much talent last year? Did that .500 team overachieve based on its actual talent, or is this one underachieving.  Statistically trueblue32 just showed that there are guys that have actually done better than they are this year.  There are some guys on this team where I shrug and think, they're probably not going to get any better, they are what they are.  At the MAC level you can get some really raw players as freshmen but with good, consistent coaching in a good culture, if they stay 4 years they can become really solid players.  Calvin Cage (who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn his freshman year), John Boyer (who became statistically one of the most efficient point guards in the country his senior year) come to mind.  I think the program hit on some guys talent-wise - Jones, Skogman, Jack - and in today's NCAA they take offers out of here.

The players who were here have regressed from last year to this year. Adams was good, now struggling. Jo is only good when the coach doesn't get in his head, pulling him immediately after a miss or turnover. Sy would've been a force last year, and is talented now, but is completely alone at times. They ran off Kanye. Curtis and Jack saw what this was going to be and left town early. Williamson didn't help before and still isn't.  Sabol, Fulcher and Bolden are solid role player additions, and have been afforded big time opportunities. They've played well at times,  but struggled in others. Overall, this team showed little heart on D yesterday and tends to get over run by the leader on the other side of half court. It's so hard to watch as this team is 1st year MAC bad right now. Sadly, I think this team has much more top end talent than that team, and a few solid ancillary players alongside them. But they are proving to be much, much worse right now. Best quote from yesterday...

"Where's your paper bag for covering your face?"

"This team isn't good enough to even deserve a paper bag".

Thats a sad, but poignant exchange from 2 long time ub supporters and fans.

[trueblue32]

15 minutes ago, skrabukes said:

They ran off Kanye.

I haven't said anything in case he does have things going on in his personal life, so I hope all is well, but I don't buy their story on him. He's slowly had his role reduced, didn't get into the last couple of games before break, then disappeared after Christmas break. It sure seems like he just quit or was told not to come back. He was also in the group that didn't play a half in Cancun Fort Myers for what Jay Wright alluded to as attitude issues. Diovion Famakinde wasn't dressed the first few games (I assumed injury), and then disappeared off the bench. Bryson Wilson was brought in with 4 mins left when we were getting blown out and then pulled for no apparent reason with two minutes left? The vibes surrounding this team are dogshit. Maybe its some "bad eggs" but at a certain point Halcovage is responsible for who he brings in and how he handles it. Halcovage didn't want to use the 13th scholarship so we now have 8 healthy players who Halcovage seems willing to play. People are really underselling what a mess of a situation Halcovage has made. I repeat that none of this is going to get easier next year with at a minimum Chatman gone and maybe a 5 win record to recruit with.

Edited January 10 by trueblue32

[enrique14150]

We talked about that a few weeks ago, does it get to the point of "bags on heads" by the end of the season. Right now - I don't know, I can't bring myself to treat college kids the same I would professionals.  They're trying, they're just not very good.

[enrique14150]

And for Kanye Jones - I don't know any facts about what's going on with him right now, so it would be unfair and inaccurate of me to speculate.

[skrabukes]

44 minutes ago, enrique14150 said:

And for Kanye Jones - I don't know any facts about what's going on with him right now, so it would be unfair and inaccurate of me to speculate.

While I have no idea as to what happened (or is happening), he's not here, along with others who were originally supposed to be on this roster. This team suited up 9 yesterday.  As was stated in an earlier post,  Wilson finally gets in down 20 and is pulled with a minute left. McVeigh,  who was finally playing decently is playing well, they pull him. It's crazy to watch what is happening here. We've gone from the penthouse to skid row way too fast. Yes, transfer portal eats us alive. Yes, NIL paying players doesn't happen for us. But this is dumb. There's no way JW and Co have UB with 1 win in the 2nd week of January, and without any hope for anything remotely close to a silver lining on the horizon. Whether you liked or disliked him, the team at least was watchable. Sadly, many times this season, this has not been, and has felt like JV basketball. Whether it's been a lack of on the floor awareness/IQ and/or effort, it's just so so sad to see. Yesterday was the quietest game I've seen in 25 years. A player on UB blocks an opponent out of bounds and there was literally not one clap heard from the crowd. That's how checked out everyone has gotten (much like the Mitchell Watt/Shannon Evans error).

[enrique14150]

18 minutes ago, skrabukes said:

While I have no idea as to what happened (or is happening), he's not here, along with others who were originally supposed to be on this roster. This team suited up 9 yesterday.  As was stated in an earlier post,  Wilson finally gets in down 20 and is pulled with a minute left. McVeigh,  who was finally playing decently is playing well, they pull him. It's crazy to watch what is happening here. We've gone from the penthouse to skid row way too fast. Yes, transfer portal eats us alive. Yes, NIL paying players doesn't happen for us. But this is dumb. There's no way JW and Co have UB with 1 win in the 2nd week of January, and without any hope for anything remotely close to a silver lining on the horizon. Whether you liked or disliked him, the team at least was watchable. Sadly, many times this season, this has not been, and has felt like JV basketball. Whether it's been a lack of on the floor awareness/IQ and/or effort, it's just so so sad to see. Yesterday was the quietest game I've seen in 25 years. A player on UB blocks an opponent out of bounds and there was literally not one clap heard from the crowd. That's how checked out everyone has gotten (much like the Mitchell Watt/Shannon Evans error).

Well said.  I wondered that last weekend - if you can't get minutes on this team, this year, then I don't know.  I totally agree with you when you say there's an alarming lack of basketball awareness and sense out there.  Especially from some experienced guys who should know better at this point.

Looking back, it's not hard to go down in the standings if the recruits you brought in don't pan out.  However well regarded they are, maybe they just don't have the same ceiling, or drive, or don't fit as well together. Look at what happened after Battle/Bortz/Bird/Gilbert - Betts/Robinson/Gamble/Pierce were decent, but not as good.  Then you had teams with Watt, McCrea, that had a really good couple players but without a lot of depth.  Even when you think you're recruiting the next batch of players to take over, they might not be the same.  Segu/Williams/Mballa - we thought they were going to be awesome.  For various reasons, they didn't do as well as their predecessors, and it wasn't all because of talent...

I've been trying to think of what went right in the past.  What were some of the qualities of the players, the culture, etc.  
1. Building something - I don't want to speak for them, in case this is wrong, but I got the sense there was pride in some of those teams where they were building something new, taking the program where it hadn't gone before.
2. Drive - they tended to get guys who had a chip on their shoulder, who wanted to play at a higher level but were overlooked.  They wanted to prove those places wrong.  CJ, Perkins, and on the football side, Khalil and Brandon Oliver come to mind.  Mitch Watt had to learn how to walk again!  McCrea was passed over despite his talent because he was 6'7" and not 6'10".  Segu and Williams had to follow that and they were different players, I didn't see them with the same level of motivation and drive.  Battle, CJ, Watt, Perkins, Dontay, those guys had a competitive fire that burned bright when it mattered most.
3. Getting guys to buy into a culture, a way of doing things, a way of playing, and that it may take a couple years of work to get to be a starter, good enough to play regularly in that group.  For years this program was known, under several coaches, as one that played good defense. That has completely melted away.  You seemed to have a torch passed along between guards that took pride in their craft at being a shutdown defender.  We have been missing that person for years now.  Who among this group has the competitive fire out there that leads by example, sets the tone and the standards, and picks up everyone else? As someone else said, you have some complementary parts.  You'd think 'maybe' Chatman but I've been vocal about his terrible demeanor out there at times.

Personally, when I take on a new team or a new group, you have to find out what everyone can do.  Losing provides a good indication of who gets frustrated/angry and tries harder; who emerges as a leader; who stops trying; who doesn't care.  You build with the former and move on from the latter, you set those expectations and that culture.  Is that what Halcovage and company are doing right now?  Will anyone they want to keep after this season actually want to stay?

Edited January 10 by enrique14150

[UBlearns]

39 minutes ago, skrabukes said:

Sadly, many times this season, this has not been, and has felt like JV basketball.

Anecdotal, but I watched one of the non-conference games with my girlfriend.  She's a basketball fan and follows her high-major alma mater closely; she doesn't know anything about mid-majors but she generally knows her way around college basketball.  I forget which game we were watching, she just mindlessly asked me, "what level this is - is this D3?"  I said something to the effect of "uh, no, this is D1.  UB was ranked a couple of years ago and made tournament 4 out of 5 years."  She just kinda blankly looked at the TV, confused, and said "well, this looks like a high school team."  

Not ideal.

[Chet]

7 hours ago, MuchMany said:

That's way too clever and damning a nickname to be deployed yet. However, next year at this time I may be stealing it if things remain the same.

We don't have the requisite talent to compete at this level. The freshmen are decent and the returning JW guys are decent. There's a missing middle of playable, experienced transfers that GH3 failed to supplement the roster with. At minimum grad transfer PG and a Maceo Jack-style wing shooter.

Always enjoy your perspective. Think u nailed it.