Game against Hofstra 7:30pm 11/20/23

[rma]

7 minutes ago, Tee4three said:

I'm worried the coaches that Nate oates beat by 30+ for a couple years in a row still remember and will take their turn doing right back to ub this season

There are a couple Mac teams that might beat this team by 50+

The only coaches left are Senderoff (Kent), Groce (Akron), and Kowalczyk (UT).

But unfortunately those are the teams that can beat this team by that amount.

[UB92]

One of the things that really stood out watching this game was that the team didn’t really look organized or with a plan on either side of the ball. I wonder what practices look like.  
 

The contrast with Oats is stark.  When Oats took over UB, he already had like ten years as a head coach (albeit in HS), but he apparently ran things like you would in a D1 program.   He sort of knew what he was doing right from the jump.  
 

Our new coach may have a lot of experience in doing a variety of jobs in a top notch D1 program like Nova, but no one could have watched that game today and not be concerned with the the future.  At times, it looked like an intramural team playing together (or worse…a pickup game). Even Reggie ball…with those handoffs on the perimeter, was a plan.  
 

I know it is only a few games, but I am sort of scratching my head about what that was.   Maybe there was a disciplinary issue.  Maybe he is trying out different players in different groupings.  But whatever it was, it looked non-competitive.  That’s about the most damning thing I could say. 

[Tee4three]

18 minutes ago, rma said:

The only coaches left are Senderoff (Kent), Groce (Akron), and Kowalczyk (UT).

But unfortunately those are the teams that can beat this team by that amount.

I thought boals first season as well, thinking about it that's a lot of turnover for a conference in 4 or 5 years

[Tee4three]

Been very pessimistic about this current team but I do like the 3 freshman sabol/boldin/Wilson the minutes they got together tonight they seemed to have some chemistry. (The five of sabol/boldin/Wilson/Adams/Smith had some semblance of an offense and ball movement)

Should be 3 good building blocks for the future hopefully the culture being built will keep them here to see them reach their potential 

[DocCas86]

I am with giving a coach 3 years.  That said I think that a better philosophy in building the team year 1 would have been getting two more transfers and one less freshman (use all 13 scholarships).  Especially given the teams trajectory so far.  Unfortunately with the portal the way it is, it is more difficult to foster loyalty and build a team.  A modicum of success would help encourage players to stay another year.  What we have seen so far...not so much.   Let's hope things improve some over the remainder of the season, that is up to players and coaches to drive.

[Chet]

Someone on the board mentioned that the bench looked like a funeral. That was funny, but it appeared true. Where is the energy coming from? 

[Tee4three]

1 hour ago, Chet said:

Someone on the board mentioned that the bench looked like a funeral. That was funny, but it appeared true. Where is the energy coming from? 

It should look like a funeral. Tough to look energetic when a minute into the game you're already down 10, and half way your down 20 and at half 33

[clodney]

I think someone said it on here before but perhaps we should avoid hiring longtime assistants from big programs that have never experienced the unique challenges of being a head coach. Mo and Halcovage both fit that mold and seem to be learning on the job. Are we really a testing ground for first time head coaches? Why can't we steal and up and comer from a school in a smaller conference like the NEC?

Edited November 21, 2023 by clodney

[rma]

9 minutes ago, clodney said:

Why can't we steal and up and comer from a school in a smaller conference like the NEC?

Did that with women’s basketball

Turns out nobody wants to play for her or work for her. 
 

Our best football/basketball coaches have been:

High school head coach turned UB assistant

D3 head coach

P5 head coach

P5 position coach/NFL front office

A10 assistant

 

No secret recipe for success

[Tee4three]

12 minutes ago, clodney said:

I think someone said it on here before but perhaps we should avoid hiring longtime assistants from big programs that have never experienced the unique challenges of being a head coach. Mo and Halcovage both fit that mold and seem to be learning on the job. Are we really a testing ground for first time head coaches? Why can't we steal and up and comer from a school in a smaller conference like the NEC?

I think halcovage is gonna be fine, where I think he is running into trouble is that he never got the upperclassmen that knew his style, knew how he he wants guys to practice etc.

He doesn't have that guy on the floor that knows exactly what he is looking for. The guys he is counting on for that are guys that came here/recruited here to play a completely different style. So it's gonna be a bit longer than usual 

Now that I think of it maybe that guy was James Graham 

[enrique14150]

12 hours ago, Kevin said:

What did we do to deserve this?

They got really good (for the MAC level).  Like Icarus, they flew too close to the sun and the wings melted off.  The price of winning at this level is turnover, and keeping all that going is not easy.  The only in-between is to be good but don't win trophies - Reggie's teams here, or Kowalczyk's in Toledo.  This isn't an indictment of anyone, it isn't an "I told you so", it isn't for or against any of these previous coaches - it just is.  You get good, and win, and you have to start over, and it isn't a guarantee that it will continue.  This applies to every team, UB isn't special/brilliant/stupid.  The lesson is: enjoy every minute of those highest points that you can, while you can, because they will be fleeting by their nature.  I know I did - I still have the confetti I picked up on several occasions on the floor in Cleveland.  I'm hopeful/confident we'll be back again, I'm just not sure when.

One can both be shocked and appalled at what this team looks like right now, AND realize that any coach's project gets several years to see if it matures.  I can't extrapolate what this program will look like in 3 years yet, but I can say this team currently doesn't look like one that's going to win many, if any, games this season.

[enrique14150]

13 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said:

Didn’t write a blank check for Nate.

Seriously, with whose money?

I still don't understand the idea that these ambitious people - Hurley, White, Oats - were going to stay here forever, in spite of offers of vastly more money at higher levels. They were compensated very well for the MAC level and for what UB could afford.  They were very successful here and that success naturally led to greater opportunities.  By taking those, it wasn't a snub to UB.  UB doesn't have blank checks - but Alabama does.

Bart: "Krusty, how could you?"
Krusty: "They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house! I'm not made of stone!"

Western really screwed up when they didn't keep PJ Fleck.  Miami REALLY screwed up when they didn't write a blank check to Bo Schembechler.

[MuchMany]

11 hours ago, enrique14150 said:

They got really good (for the MAC level).  Like Icarus, they flew too close to the sun and the wings melted off.  The price of winning at this level is turnover, and keeping all that going is not easy.  The only in-between is to be good but don't win trophies - Reggie's teams here, or Kowalczyk's in Toledo.  This isn't an indictment of anyone, it isn't an "I told you so", it isn't for or against any of these previous coaches - it just is.  You get good, and win, and you have to start over, and it isn't a guarantee that it will continue.  This applies to every team, UB isn't special/brilliant/stupid.  The lesson is: enjoy every minute of those highest points that you can, while you can, because they will be fleeting by their nature.  I know I did - I still have the confetti I picked up on several occasions on the floor in Cleveland.  I'm hopeful/confident we'll be back again, I'm just not sure when.

One can both be shocked and appalled at what this team looks like right now, AND realize that any coach's project gets several years to see if it matures.  I can't extrapolate what this program will look like in 3 years yet, but I can say this team currently doesn't look like one that's going to win many, if any, games this season.

Good post. I only take issue with "you have to start over," even though I don't think you meant it as "start from scratch."

JW and staff had as advantaged a head start and as harmonious a transfer of power that anyone could ask for at this level. The game was on easy mode. Sure, there were always going to be some fans who would grumble when they inevitably didn't reach the heights of 30-win seasons and Rounds of 32 that Oats did. But there was a real opportunity to continue establishing sustained success here.

JW was handed the best roster in the MAC, the most momentum in program history and in any WNY program since the 70s, and a fanbase that was becoming a real thing. But he failed to recruit, simple as that. There were far too many strikeouts and empty classes. The roster rotted from the inside out and honestly the player development with the guys that did come was bad too.

It's impossible to say how a different coach would have done post-Oats, but I don't think it was inevitable that we'd sink to where we are now. I am squarely in the "knew it wouldn't be forever and enjoyed every moment" camp, but this is hard to deal with right now. We'll see where GH3 takes the program, but my frustrations remain with JW, his staff, Malik Zachery, Chanse Robinson, Savion Gallion, David Nickelberry, Keishawn Brewton, and on and on.

Edited November 22, 2023 by MuchMany

[DooleyBull06]

48 minutes ago, enrique14150 said:

Seriously, with whose money?

I still don't understand the idea that these ambitious people - Hurley, White, Oats - were going to stay here forever, in spite of offers of vastly more money at higher levels. They were compensated very well for the MAC level and for what UB could afford.  They were very successful here and that success naturally led to greater opportunities.  By taking those, it wasn't a snub to UB.  UB doesn't have blank checks - but Alabama does.

Bart: "Krusty, how could you?"
Krusty: "They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house! I'm not made of stone!"

Western really screwed up when they didn't keep PJ Fleck.  Miami REALLY screwed up when they didn't write a blank check to Bo Schembechler.

I was being comical. Or sarcastic. Or frustrated. Take your pick. I fully understand UB couldn’t write a blank check…hence the joke. 

[Chet]

7 hours ago, MuchMany said:

Good post. I only take issue with "you have to start over," even though I don't think you meant it as "start from scratch."

JW and staff had as advantaged a head start and as harmonious a transfer of power that anyone could ask for at this level. The game was on easy mode. Sure, there were always going to be some fans who would grumble when they inevitably didn't reach the heights of 30-win seasons and Rounds of 32 that Oats did. But there was a real opportunity to continue establishing sustained success here.

JW was handed the best roster in the MAC, the most momentum in program history and in any WNY program since the 70s, and a fanbase that was becoming a real thing. But he failed to recruit, simple as that. There were far too many strikeouts and empty classes. The roster rotted from the inside out and honestly the player development with the guys that did come was bad too.

It's impossible to say how a different coach would have done post-Oats, but I don't think it was inevitable that we'd sink to where we are now. I am squarely in the "knew it wouldn't be forever and enjoyed every moment" camp, but this is hard to deal with right now. We'll see where GH3 takes the program, but my frustrations remain with JW, his staff, Malik Zachery, Chanse Robinson, Savior Gallion, David Nickelberry, Keishawn Brewton, and on and on.

Booooom

[Chet]

Truth be told, I am shocked and disgusted that we are one of the worst teams in the Country. I'm sure we lose to a good handful up of D-2 teams too. Who saw this coming? I don't need to look at any of the metrics.....it looks bad all the way around....coaching, offense, defense, recruiting and fan support.