TheCommish Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 44 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said: Money for NIL is for NIL. Travel and buy games are expenses for the school. Schools cannot pay NIL money. As to your question at the end the answer is, no. I think that other for years when a donation has been made for a major infrastructure project has been made, athletics has not received $4,000,000.00+ in donations in total, let alone for basketball alone. Schools will eventual need to be paying for NIL. We could also earmark the money for charter flights and buy games or we don’t donate it. I’ve never donated to ub athletics and I know of others that won’t as well but we could get them on board with a plan. I know it’s your job to fundraise but we have to win. Doing it, the old fashion way, won’t work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBull Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, TheCommish said: I’ve never donated to ub athletics and I know of others that won’t as well but we could get them on board with a plan. Then you are part of the problem. What bothers me the most is people who complain about the situation at UB, but have done nothing (donated nothing) to help improve it. You can donate to UB Athletics and designate the money for anything that you want, other than NIL. You want to set up a NIL group, speak with UB to do it the right way and start raising funds for NIL purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCommish Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 hours ago, BrooklynBull said: Then you are part of the problem. What bothers me the most is people who complain about the situation at UB, but have done nothing (donated nothing) to help improve it. You can donate to UB Athletics and designate the money for anything that you want, other than NIL. You want to set up a NIL group, speak with UB to do it the right way and start raising funds for NIL purposes. You can't win without NIL, this is not 2020. I want to start NIL, redirect the donors away from you, form a real powerhouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, TheCommish said: You can't win without NIL, this is not 2020. I want to start NIL, redirect the donors away from you, form a real powerhouse. Nobody donates to me. My donations are ear marked for projects and naming rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCommish Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, BrooklynBull said: Nobody donates to me. My donations are ear marked for projects and naming rights. That will win a lot of games, naming rights for a door knob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 minutes ago, TheCommish said: That will win a lot of games, naming rights for a door knob. To paraphrase Lance Leipold's, football is football and to paraphrase Sabrina Ionescu's, if you can shoot, shoot; money is money and it can be used for anything. Since you have given a total of of $0.00, you do not have the right to mock anyone who donates anything for athletics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCommish Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 33 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said: To paraphrase Lance Leipold's, football is football and to paraphrase Sabrina Ionescu's, if you can shoot, shoot; money is money and it can be used for anything. Since you have given a total of of $0.00, you do not have the right to mock anyone who donates anything for athletics. Thats fine, I hope we can launch the NIL fund soon, redirect money that would normally go towards a project or naming rights. There is more value in 1.4 million starting 5 than naming rights of a brick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1975 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 hours ago, BrooklynBull said: To paraphrase Lance Leipold's, football is football and to paraphrase Sabrina Ionescu's, if you can shoot, shoot; money is money and it can be used for anything. Since you have given a total of of $0.00, you do not have the right to mock anyone who donates anything for athletics. He has the right to mock anyone he wants and you have the right to not like it. Until UB gets serious about building and supporting winning programs, and until someone can show me a positive correlation between private donations and success on the court/field, I’ll keep my money in my pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 45 minutes ago, 1975 said: He has the right to mock anyone he wants and you have the right to not like it. Until UB gets serious about building and supporting winning programs, and until someone can show me a positive correlation between private donations and success on the court/field, I’ll keep my money in my pocket. So UB needs to get "serious about building and supporting winning programs" before making a donation. That is an assumption without basis, that UB does not want build and have winning programs. But they need money to get "serious about building and supporting winning programs". You have a created a chicken or egg situation, with the result of UB not having the money that you believe that they need. That makes you part of the problem and not the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCommish Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 33 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said: So UB needs to get "serious about building and supporting winning programs" before making a donation. That is an assumption without basis, that UB does not want build and have winning programs. But they need money to get "serious about building and supporting winning programs". You have a created a chicken or egg situation, with the result of UB not having the money that you believe that they need. That makes you part of the problem and not the solution. I’m disappointed that is how you treat alumni. When you speak to donors and they say I’m cutting back or pulling my money, is your rebuttal “you’re part of the problem,”? by the way, ub is not funding athletics properly if we must rely on body bags game to fund our athletic department. Do we ask professors to sell books to have a class? Do we ask the dance program to sell candy bars to have a performance? Actually, I think I’m a sound investor that doesn’t throw money at a bad thing. Ub needs to fund athletics, play more home game, less body bag games. Is the president is not asking why we need a check from Missouri to function. He's a very smart man and he is not asking the questions? If we rely on another school supporting us because that is how things have always work then we have the wrong leadership and simply can’t afford d1 athletics. I can’t believe the president wants to be associated with directional schools rather Penn st, Rutgers, or even Tulane. Edited February 20 by TheCommish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everlast2504 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 35 minutes ago, TheCommish said: I’m disappointed that is how you treat alumni. When you speak to donors and they say I’m cutting back or pulling my money, is your rebuttal “you’re part of the problem,”? by the way, ub is not funding athletics properly if we must rely on body bags game to fund our athletic department. Do we ask professors to sell books to have a class? Do we ask the dance program to sell candy bars to have a performance? Actually, I think I’m a sound investor that doesn’t throw money at a bad thing. Ub needs to fund athletics, play more home game, less body bag games. Is the president is not asking why we need a check from Missouri to function. He's a very smart man and he is not asking the questions? If we rely on another school supporting us because that is how things have always work then we have the wrong leadership and simply can’t afford d1 athletics. I can’t believe the president wants to be associated with directional schools rather Penn st, Rutgers, or even Tulane. Thats not how any of it works. Every single University needs athletic donations do function. Out of the 120 D1 football school maybe 10 can afford to operate under your reasoning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 27 minutes ago, TheCommish said: ub is not funding athletics properly if we must rely on body bags game to fund our athletic department Almost every school not in the now power 4 conferences fund their programs with payday games. Kent State takes three a year. 37 minutes ago, TheCommish said: play more home game, less body bag games Do you think that UB clears more money for a home game than a payday game? Of the four non-conference football games how many do you want at home? Schools like UB will rarely have three of the non-conference games at home. 29 minutes ago, TheCommish said: I’m disappointed that is how you treat alumni. I have no idea who is and is not an alumni member. 29 minutes ago, TheCommish said: When you speak to donors and they say I’m cutting back or pulling my money, is your rebuttal “you’re part of the problem,”? I do not speak with donors, other than people I personally know who donate. I am not a fundraiser for athletics, anymore. There was a time frame when directors of the Blue and White Club made fund raising calls. That stopped in the late 1990s. I have not made a fund raising call for any part of UB since, and yes I donate to more than Athletics. Those who cut back or stop and have a reason for what they are doing and are better than people who donated $0.00 and complain that there is not enough money for athletics. Almost regardless of what you economic situation is, people can probably scrape together something to donate. I started at $15.00 a year and created a plan over the years to increase my donations on a yearly basis. Put your money where your fingers are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCommish Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said: Almost every school not in the now power 4 conferences fund their programs with payday games. Kent State takes three a year. Do you think that UB clears more money for a home game than a payday game? Of the four non-conference football games how many do you want at home? Schools like UB will rarely have three of the non-conference games at home. I have no idea who is and is not an alumni member. I do not speak with donors, other than people I personally know who donate. I am not a fundraiser for athletics, anymore. There was a time frame when directors of the Blue and White Club made fund raising calls. That stopped in the late 1990s. I have not made a fund raising call for any part of UB since, and yes I donate to more than Athletics. Those who cut back or stop and have a reason for what they are doing and are better than people who donated $0.00 and complain that there is not enough money for athletics. Almost regardless of what you economic situation is, people can probably scrape together something to donate. I started at $15.00 a year and created a plan over the years to increase my donations on a yearly basis. Put your money where your fingers are. It’s called NIL. Explain to everyone why donating to name a building is more valuable than getting a starting 5 that can win a national championship. Please explain. whether we get more money from playing Missouri or a home game is irrelevant. What Kent st is doing is irrelevant. Danny white made a point when he went to ucf, no more body bag games. He agreed to only home and home, why don’t we have the same approach? “That’s how we’re funded,” we spent $9m on adjunct professors. The money is there on the campus, they're choosing to spend the money on things they want to fund. if people truly care about ub athletics, we would start funding an NIL. By the way, I graduated from ub. I’ll take the apology any minute. Edited February 20 by TheCommish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 15 minutes ago, TheCommish said: It’s called NIL. Explain to everyone why donating to name a building is more valuable than getting a starting 5 that can win a national championship. Please explain. NIL "donations" are not donations. They are payments for which an athlete is supposed to do something. If they do something for you are they could be your employee? Do you have the proper insurance if they get hurt? Donations to name things after yourself or another leaves a legacy for the future. NIL is fleeting at best. 18 minutes ago, TheCommish said: we spent $9m on adjunct professors. The money is there on the campus, they're choosing to spend the money on things they want to fund. That money is to keep the number of actual employees of the school lower. It saves the school millions of dollars by not having to provide health insurance and retirement benefits. UB is not alone in moving to more adjunct professors than full time employee professors. 22 minutes ago, TheCommish said: if people truly care about ub athletics, we would start funding an NIL. By the way, I graduated from ub. I’ll take the apology any minute. You will get an apology as soon as you make a donation to athletics or a payment into a NIL fund. Until then I stand by my statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everlast2504 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 24 minutes ago, TheCommish said: we spent $9m on adjunct professors. The money is there on the campus, they're choosing to spend the money on things they want to fund. There not choosing were to spend the money out of one pot. There are very specific budgets and that money must be spent there. Cutting $9m from an adjunct professor fund is most likely illegal, at the very least politically damaging. It also pays and employees close to 100 people. Moving it to Athletics, we can't pay the student athletes thats not what NIL does. Its not a significant amount to do any dramatic changes through capital improvements. All that could really happen is taking $9 million to pay 100 people to increasing the salaries of a handful of people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCommish Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 50 minutes ago, everlast2504 said: There not choosing were to spend the money out of one pot. There are very specific budgets and that money must be spent there. Cutting $9m from an adjunct professor fund is most likely illegal, at the very least politically damaging. It also pays and employees close to 100 people. Moving it to Athletics, we can't pay the student athletes thats not what NIL does. Its not a significant amount to do any dramatic changes through capital improvements. All that could really happen is taking $9 million to pay 100 people to increasing the salaries of a handful of people. What will happen will be the school's will be paying for NIL. I think you're being hung up on $9m, there is so much waste on that campus, it's unbelievable. $1.4 million would change UB basketball in a positive way, $4.4 million would change UB basketball in the best way possible. You need better CBAs, also how many adjunct professors are full-time professors but they're on sabbaticals? Apparently, it's okay to avoid paying adjunct professors benefits, etc but if they're making $90k that is okay. "There not choosing were to spend the money out of one pot," - yes, they're. The president could simply allocate more money to athletics rather than the countless waste. You really don't think there is $20 million dollars of waste on that campus? Edited February 20 by TheCommish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCommish Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 44 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said: NIL "donations" are not donations. They are payments for which an athlete is supposed to do something. If they do something for you are they could be your employee? Do you have the proper insurance if they get hurt? Donations to name things after yourself or another leaves a legacy for the future. NIL is fleeting at best. That money is to keep the number of actual employees of the school lower. It saves the school millions of dollars by not having to provide health insurance and retirement benefits. UB is not alone in moving to more adjunct professors than full time employee professors. You will get an apology as soon as you make a donation to athletics or a payment into a NIL fund. Until then I stand by my statements. "NIL "donations" are not donations," - false. NIL payments are donated to plenty of non-profit orgs. "NIL collectives are tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organizations," https://www.alston.com/en/insights/publications/2023/10/the-irss-latest-play-on-nil-collectives "They are payments for which an athlete is supposed to do something," So let's say hypothetically a high level donor wants their relative to get a job and they're one of the least qualified candidates, fast forward, years later, the results proved they were unqualified IMO. Did that ever happen at UB? 😃 "You will get an apology as soon as you make a donation to athletics or a payment into a NIL fund. Until then I stand by my statements," I'm trying to start NIL fund with people on this board. Will you donate? Start at $150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) NIL fund idea: Ubfan message board hosts weekly meat raffles in the buffalo area, all proceeds go towards NIL! (Initially said this in jest but now I'm thinking about it and it might actually make bank depending how it's set up and marketed) Edited February 20 by Tee4three Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 12 minutes ago, TheCommish said: "NIL "donations" are not donations," - false. NIL payments are donated to plenty of non-profit orgs. "NIL collectives are tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organizations," https://www.alston.com/en/insights/publications/2023/10/the-irss-latest-play-on-nil-collectives The IRS has said the NIL payments are not deductible. The link is earlier in this thread. "They are payments for which an athlete is supposed to do something," So let's say hypothetically a high level donor wants their relative to get a job and they're one of the least qualified candidates, fast forward, years later, the results proved they were unqualified IMO. Did that ever happen at UB? 😃 Not that I can think of. "You will get an apology as soon as you make a donation to athletics or a payment into a NIL fund. Until then I stand by my statements," I'm trying to start NIL fund with people on this board. Will you donate? Start at $150 Prove to me that the fund exists and approved so that it does not result in any NCAA violations (See Virginia and Tennessee) and I would consider it, if I get the ok from Compliance to donate to it. However, if the only donations are from me and you, no, because it will be meaningless. Responses in bold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everlast2504 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 13 minutes ago, TheCommish said: What will happen will be the school's will be paying for NIL. I think you're being hung up on $9m, there is so much waste on that campus, it's unbelievable. $1.4 million would change UB basketball in a positive way, $4.4 million would change UB basketball in the best way possible. You need better CBAs, also how many adjunct professors are full-time professors but they're on sabbaticals? Apparently, it's okay to avoid paying adjunct professors benefits, etc but if they're making $90k that is okay. "There not choosing were to spend the money out of one pot," - yes, they're. The president could simply allocate more money to athletics rather than the countless waste. You really don't think there is $20 million dollars of waste on that campus? You used the $9m number. It could be any amount of money Athletics can't touch it. Also a CBA states very clearly that UB must spend X amount of money on the CBA group. How would 4.4 million change things. All it would get is a coach for a few years out on a money grab. Our facilites need closer to $40 million in upgrades. Which are also capital improvements and being a public university needs a lengthy approval and political process, and possible bond that needs to be voted on by various stake holders. "There not choosing were to spend the money out of one pot," - yes, they're. The president could simply allocate more money to athletics rather than the countless waste. You really don't think there is $20 million dollars of waste on that campus? Your reasoning here is 100% false and illegal in many cases both civilly and criminally. It would open up UB civil actions brought on by the CBA groups. There would be also criminal liability for the president do such action because it amounts to fraud. Again a University can not directly pay into an NIL that is still not allowed. NIL are meant for outside groups to be able to pay student athletes for services that use there name image or likeness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 15 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said: Responses in bold. It's not black and white. It depends on how the NIL is setup and administered. You cannot tell me at these large institutions donors are paying into NILs and not getting tax benefits. Most of the donors with the deepest pockets are attorneys, brokers and accountants. They are figuring out a way to get the full tax break: NIL Collectives Generally NIL collectives are often established by supporters of university athletic programs, but they are legally separate from the university and its athletic departments. These organizations pool donations and develop paid NIL opportunities for student-athletes of the university they support, often in partnership with one or more for-profit businesses or in the case of a 501(c)(3) collective with one or more charities. NIL collectives that have received tax-exempt status from the IRS under Section 501(c)(3) have qualified for exempt status due to these relationships with partnered charities. Their exempt purpose, as required under Section 501(c)(3), is typically promoting and supporting other 501(c)(3) charitable organizations. If an NIL collective is not tax-exempt, then contributions to it would not be tax deductible for the donor and income generated by the collectives would be taxable. NIL collectives that are exempt under Section 501(c)(3) carry out this charitable purpose by identifying and facilitating opportunities for the student-athletes that will ultimately benefit the partnered charities through increased visibility for particular events or increased fundraising. These NIL opportunities often include promoting the collective or its partnered charity through social media posts, attending fundraising events, or autographing items to be sold by a partnered charity, often at no cost to the charity. The NIL collective then pays the student-athlete for participating in the charitable promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCommish Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 36 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said: Responses in bold. And the AG offices of VA and TN are suing and going to hand the ncaa another L Edited February 20 by TheCommish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCommish Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 39 minutes ago, UBinMD said: It's not black and white. It depends on how the NIL is setup and administered. You cannot tell me at these large institutions donors are paying into NILs and not getting tax benefits. Most of the donors with the deepest pockets are attorneys, brokers and accountants. They are figuring out a way to get the full tax break: NIL Collectives Generally NIL collectives are often established by supporters of university athletic programs, but they are legally separate from the university and its athletic departments. These organizations pool donations and develop paid NIL opportunities for student-athletes of the university they support, often in partnership with one or more for-profit businesses or in the case of a 501(c)(3) collective with one or more charities. NIL collectives that have received tax-exempt status from the IRS under Section 501(c)(3) have qualified for exempt status due to these relationships with partnered charities. Their exempt purpose, as required under Section 501(c)(3), is typically promoting and supporting other 501(c)(3) charitable organizations. If an NIL collective is not tax-exempt, then contributions to it would not be tax deductible for the donor and income generated by the collectives would be taxable. NIL collectives that are exempt under Section 501(c)(3) carry out this charitable purpose by identifying and facilitating opportunities for the student-athletes that will ultimately benefit the partnered charities through increased visibility for particular events or increased fundraising. These NIL opportunities often include promoting the collective or its partnered charity through social media posts, attending fundraising events, or autographing items to be sold by a partnered charity, often at no cost to the charity. The NIL collective then pays the student-athlete for participating in the charitable promotion. Brooklyn is just worried people will start donating towards the NIL instead of vanity projects. Ohio State's NIL is non-profit - https://www.thefoundationohio.com/faq/ says on the web site. "your membership is tax-deductible" Ohio Bobcats NIL "Your donation will be tax deductible through our partnership with the BPS Foundation, a national 501c3" https://1804sportcollective.com/ “ name things after yourself or another leaves a legacy for the future. NIL is fleeting at best,” is that from a phablet or response sheet? I bet a lot of donors would be happy knowing they funded a winning basketball program. How many donors are happy with the current state of fb and mbb? Edited February 20 by TheCommish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 hours ago, TheCommish said: Brooklyn is just worried people will start donating towards the NIL instead of vanity projects. What vanity projects are there? Has athletics built something that was not needed? Naming rights can go on buildings, suites, rooms or lockers. The beauty of naming rights is that a name goes on somthing that is already there or being built, for very little money. That allows the bulk of the money to be used for other things that are needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCommish Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 33 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said: What vanity projects are there? Has athletics built something that was not needed? Naming rights can go on buildings, suites, rooms or lockers. The beauty of naming rights is that a name goes on somthing that is already there or being built, for very little money. That allows the bulk of the money to be used for other things that are needed. Plenty of them on campus. We can argue need and want all day. I noticed you won’t take the L on NIL donations being tax deductible. You skipped right over that… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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