Game Day vs Niagara 7pm

[UBlearns]

1 minute ago, Ubbulls84 said:

I wouldn’t fire him this year. But if they don’t put a competitive product on the court next year than he has to be on hot seat. 

In theory this sounds fair - but what is your definition of "competitive product" (serious question, not being snarky)?

[Bullsboys]

And to think, UB is paying this staff so much more than Whitesell’s staff to be this bad. 😬

[Bullsboys]

1 minute ago, UBlearns said:

In theory this sounds fair - but what is your definition of "competitive product" (serious question, not being snarky)?

You can’t recruit a good team when you’re this bad. 

[Bullsboys]

2 hours ago, squire17 said:

I think UB is going to romp. UB 85 Niagara 72

Oops

[BasketBull]

1 minute ago, Bullsboys said:

And to think, UB is paying this staff so much more than Whitesell’s staff to be this bad. 😬

This doesn’t make firing Whitesell a bad decision, it just suggests a bad hire was made.

[Bullsboys]

8 minutes ago, BasketBull said:

This doesn’t make firing Whitesell a bad decision, it just suggests a bad hire was made.

Sure. 

[MuchMany]

14 minutes ago, BasketBull said:

This doesn’t make firing Whitesell a bad decision, it just suggests a bad hire was made.

It absolutely makes firing Whitesell a bad move if this was the plan for what followed. The firing doesn't happen in a vacuum, it was a decision of Whitesell vs the feasible alternatives. They appear to have massively overestimated the quality of the feasible alternatives.

[C1ubP1fanaticM7]

We are bad. Lack talent. Struggle to shoot the ball. Lack hustle. Poor coaching. Rough to watch. Consistently underperform at home. I mean we have to win a game at some point, but man, I’m not confident about winning any game this year. 

[Ubbulls84]

24 minutes ago, UBlearns said:

In theory this sounds fair - but what is your definition of "competitive product" (serious question, not being snarky)?

Definitely a good question. In my opinion  atleast 7 wins in the MAC. They play 18 conference games so have to atleast be competitive in conference. Right now they are light years away from this so he’s gonna have to work the transfer portal to be able get some talent in here.  

Edited December 30, 2023 by Ubbulls84

[BasketBull]

2 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

It absolutely makes firing Whitesell a bad move if this was the plan for what followed. The firing doesn't happen in a vacuum, it was a decision of Whitesell vs the feasible alternatives. They appear to have massively overestimated the quality of the feasible alternatives.

To the extent that the AD fired without viable alternatives I absolutely agree with you. Either the plan fell through or he had no plan at all. Now we are paying two head coaches, one which isn’t on our staff and another which doesn’t seem capable.

[MuchMany]

1 minute ago, BasketBull said:

To the extent that the AD fired without viable alternatives I absolutely agree with you. Either the plan fell through or he had no plan at all. Now we are paying two head coaches, one which isn’t on our staff and another which doesn’t seem capable.

Right. Since we're paying two coaches right now, which one would we all rather have on our sideline at the moment earning that paycheck? For me the answer is Whitesell 100%.

[skrabukes]

48 minutes ago, BasketBull said:

Don’t know that I’ve ever watched a D1 team this bad week after week. On the same level as the teams Chicago State fielded for many years.

There have been some great posts in this thread. I refuse to believe that we are late 90s Chicago state bad. That team literally looked like 6 guys pulled off from Delaware park. It's pretty embarrassing that we are compared to that, but sadly, it's not as far off as I'd like to think. 

[BasketBull]

2 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Right. Since we're paying two coaches right now, which one would we all rather have on our sideline at the moment earning that paycheck? For me the answer is Whitesell 100%.

Yeah of course. Would I rather be paying one head coach to do a middling job rather than two head coaches to do a very poor job? Hindsight is great. Doesn’t mean I disagree with the decision to move on from a dead end, just means it was either too soon or made by somebody who shouldn’t have been trusted with that decision.

[squire17]

I just realized that the Purple Eagles scored 49 points in the second half. And they aren’t that good. However, I underestimated them.

[DaBulls99]

53 minutes ago, Bullsboys said:

You can’t recruit a good team when you’re this bad. 

If that were true no team would ever improve. It only takes 1-2 good recruits to change your fortunes, esp in the MAC. Some of you are so weak and give up at the slightest bump in the road. This sucks. Doesn’t mean it will forever. 

[Ubbulls84]

4 minutes ago, squire17 said:

I just realized that the Purple Eagles scored 49 points in the second half. And they aren’t that good. However, I underestimated them.

They aren’t that good you are right. We are just that bad right now. The question I have is are we going to win a game in the conference? Doesn’t look like it with product on the court now. 

[MuchMany]

7 minutes ago, DaBulls99 said:

If that were true no team would ever improve. It only takes 1-2 good recruits to change your fortunes, esp in the MAC. Some of you are so weak and give up at the slightest bump in the road. This sucks. Doesn’t mean it will forever. 

Respectfully, describing what has happened here as "the slightest bump in the road" is rather ridiculous. And I don't think it's fair to call fans weak for being shocked at our program plummeting to the worst in D1. A lot of us maintained a pretty positive attitude through Whitesell's .500 season. This isn't complaining just for the fun of it - this is a shocking season, and us on a message board pretending otherwise isn't going to change that.

[skrabukes]

4 minutes ago, Ubbulls84 said:

They aren’t that good you are right. We are just that bad right now. The question I have is are we going to win a game in the conference? Doesn’t look like it with product on the court now. 

There's zero chance they go winless in MAC. Even if they are 10% to win every game (and they'll be much higher than that in most games), they will win a few. Think back to our amazing team. We were miles better than NIU and yet we took an L to them. This team, as bad as they've shown, is not capable of going winless in league unless they completely quit. If that happens, oh boy, it will be ugly. 

No Jo, no Kanye, what was going on with that tonight? 

[Chet]

9 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Respectfully, describing what has happened here as "the slightest bump in the road" is rather ridiculous. And I don't think it's fair to call fans weak for being shocked at our program plummeting to the worst in D1. A lot of us maintained a pretty positive attitude through Whitesell's .500 season. This isn't complaining just for the fun of it - this is a shocking season, and us on a message board pretending otherwise isn't going to change that.

It's nothing short of an absolute disaster right now. A blip on the radar is a little too rich for me rn. 

[Chet]

14 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Respectfully, describing what has happened here as "the slightest bump in the road" is rather ridiculous. And I don't think it's fair to call fans weak for being shocked at our program plummeting to the worst in D1. A lot of us maintained a pretty positive attitude through Whitesell's .500 season. This isn't complaining just for the fun of it - this is a shocking season, and us on a message board pretending otherwise isn't going to change that.

Good to see you back here. Always thoughtful with great perspective.

 

[skrabukes]

Just now, Chet said:

Good to see you back here. Always thoughtful with great perspective.

 

Sadly, not seeing you or MM at games any longer is disappointing.  2 staunch supporters driven out by completely unwatchable basketball.

[UB Horns Up]

18 minutes ago, DaBulls99 said:

If that were true no team would ever improve. It only takes 1-2 good recruits to change your fortunes, esp in the MAC. Some of you are so weak and give up at the slightest bump in the road. This sucks. Doesn’t mean it will forever. 

One there are a lot of things here. UB Bulls are transitioning into a NIL pay for play college basketball landscape. What happened previously has no barring. There are reasons Jim Boeheim and Jay Wright retired. The college game at the Division I level is changing so nothing from the previous thought processes of college athletics is relevant in today’s Division I landscape. First let’s get it out of the way George Halcovage isn’t a very good head coach.

UB Bulls I guarantee will get new players next year but without NIL money to offer it will definitely be bottom of the barrel the player needs a potential fresh start it was basically UB Bulls basketball or prison type of thing. So your going to get potentially some bad apples that is what happened to Canisius Golden Griffins Reggie Witherspoon when a guy Canisius brought in had a bunch of guns in his car arrest by campus police in the KAC parking lot for bringing guns over state lines if I recall correctly he was never heard from again Canisius dropped recruiting him and sweep it all under the rug because it was just a campus visit nothing to see hear folks type of thing. Buffalo Super Fan that isn’t going to happen to UB? Keep telling yourself that when you lose 20 plus games and have no NIL money to offer a young man what great basketball player that is a fine young man is going to want to go to a 20 plus loss UB basketball team for free? Think about that the damage is that bad by George Halcovage he is worse than Reggie Witherspoon.

UB Bulls basketball is going to become potentially a home for way ward boys especially as George Halcovage gets more and more desperate to win to save his head coaching basketball career in Division I the longer this goes on. I don’t think UB the school should fool around here they have two choices fire George Halcovage or UB donors find a way to raise NIL for between $1,500 to $2,000 a year for UB Bulls new starting five if you want to see George Halcovage succeed and not get desperate. If I had to guess UB AD will give George Halcovage a raise and a long term contract extension hope is around the corner and will do nothing. Then UB Bulls basketball will potentially end up on NCAA probation at some point because of George Halcovage desperation like Tim Cohane to save his basketball career as a head coach in Division I. As a UB Bulls fan I hope I am wrong but Buffalo Super Fan has been right more than he is wrong. It’s time to panic UB Bulls basketball fans George Halcovage is flying the airplane in the dark during a Buffalo winter storm with no co pilot and it’s his first time flying as a pilot scary stuff in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[RapidsFan]

.

Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[enrique14150]

It's hours later and I'm still livid about this one.  I tried to remember the last time I left Alumni that angry about a loss.  Niagara isn't a very good team, and the Bulls didn't play great in the first half, but they played decent basketball, good enough with a couple three's by Sabol towards the end to leave them with a 10 point lead at the half.  Enough to get me out of my seat for once, the closest they've had to a 'run' in some time.  They were playing good defense, forcing bad shots and cleaning up rebounds.  Like you're supposed to.  As one should be afraid, they came out sloppy after the break and Niagara went on a big run, flipping the script.  It came down to a couple possessions at the end where UB couldn't hit a shot that they needed.

When you look at the stats, yet again, when you're an undersized team you absolutely have to shoot well from outside, and this team can't.  They shot horribly from the free throw line, which was also decisive in the end.  They played good defense in the first half but they lack basketball sense to deal with things like back-door cuts.  

Chatman - the guy scores 29 points but I left furious at him. He blows foul shots when they absolutely need them. Takes a charge on a play at the end that could've given them a chance and instead of passing it off, goes right at the guy obviously set up to block him.  In the second half, in successive plays, doesn't get a call so while Niagara is dribbling past him, he's focused on complaining to the ref, and in the next possession gets torched on D.  They are missing a lot without him but I can't stand watching him a lot of the time. His in-game demeanor is terrible.  He acts like he's a big deal, on a team that has zero wins this season against fellow D1 opponents.
Sabol - again, he will be decent someday, but he's working through freshman mistakes right now.
Zakir - win that tough battle underneath, great - then miss BOTH free throws.  Come on.
Isaiah - it was great to see him back, and he played like he was a senior leader trying to be assertive.  
Graham - he has a lot of potential.  He just seems rusty.
McVeigh - plays tough defense, but at this point is less than useless shooting the ball.

I didn't miss Smith, I have nothing bad to say, he just can't match up effectively against bigger, better inside players and I don't think he ever will at this point. I didn't miss Kanye, he's sloppy with the ball.

Niagara - they're not good either. Grossed out to see Bumbalough out there against the Bulls again.  They made adjustments and got fired up at halftime to flip the script, credit to their coaches.

By the way, I don't put too much of this on Alnutt.  It's way too early to judge Halcovage, but no one saw this as a total tear-down rebuild.  Linguist looked great on paper, so did Halcovage - I would hire both myself based on their resumes.  One was a position coach in the NFL who can recruit; the other was an assistant at a Big East team with two recent national titles.  Try and tell me you wouldn't hire either of them at this level based on that.  You can't know what's to come from there.  But I do appreciate the people who say, the buck stops there (at the top). I think he hired people with good resumes but he'll be held by many to their results.

I was so fired up at halftime for once.  I hoped this team could play with a forward winning mindset, and that melted away in a couple minutes.  This was a disgusting loss, especially since I don't know who they're going to beat at all from here.  They can't defend consistently inside, they can't shoot from outside, they get torched by anyone playing on a higher thought process. 

A poster a while ago talked about how this was their worst start since 1992.  I was at those games, I was in middle school, and that's not a fair comparison.  That team was in its first year in D1, with a roster of D3 players and a D3 coach plus a senior transfer John Blalock who basically was their whole offense.  This team is an existing D1 team with D1 players. They don't get the benefit of that comparison.

Can you tell how disgusted I am with this?  I wanted to march down there afterwards and yell "where is your pride?!!" 

"The beatings will continue until morale improves."

Or like Chief Wiggum with his tie caught in the hot dog roller at the Kwik-E-Mart, "Oh boy, this is going to get worse, before it gets better."

Edited December 30, 2023 by enrique14150

[DocCas86]

Tough to follow Enrique's post, it captures my disappointment perfectly. 

I was hopeful that the team had turned the corner on some early season problems (defense and turnovers), and just needed to shoot better and they would come away with a win.  Well they shot better 50.9% eFG% - about the D1 average.  However, they turned the ball over 17 times (1 in every 4 possessions).  If they had only 12 turnovers (about the D1 average rate) they would have likely scored 6 more points. Combine that with leaving 3 or 4 points at the FT stripe - and that is the difference between a win and a loss.  

If they continue to average 3-5 more turnovers than their opponents - they start off each game with a  4-6 point deficit.  They do not have much chance to counter that.   I can't help but think back to this past summer and comments from the board that the team needed another ball handler. That may be the biggest miss so far of Halcovage's first team.