‘23-‘24 Roster

[trueblue32]

1 hour ago, DooleyBull06 said:

The previous two comments are interesting. I’ll tackle them this way. I agree with @Tee4threeabout giving them playing time. Why didn’t they get playing time? Rhetorical question. They should’ve been given time when healthy. We should know what we got in a player after two years. That wasn’t the case with blocker, Williamson and Mading. Super frustrating. Sometimes you gotta learn and grow while making mistakes.  

Williamson was recruited as an undersized center who then redshirted to lose all the bulk that even made that possible. He looks like a small forward out there even when he's in at the end of the game with walk-ons. My guess is he goes D2 and is productive there. Blocker got 42% of minutes this season and was the worst contributor on the worst UB team in 10+ years. We don't need to see anything more from him. Mading is clearly raw with high upside, but the injuries/family situation was out of his or anybody at UB's control. You can only do so much development if you can't practice. The "we need to see what we have in them" comments are always weird. The coaches see SO much of them in practice, if they couldn't help our worst team in forever they're not long term pieces in all likelihood. That said I wish them all the best and appreciate the work they put in at UB even though it didn't pan out.

Edited March 13, 2023 by trueblue32

[UBinMD]

3 minutes ago, bullsbball said:

If Whitesell had said that this was a development year, this forum (and other places) would have exploded and wanted his head.

With only 2 players "graduating", it clearly was a development year even for his upper classmen.  Freshman and Sophomores develop during practice and if good enough, make it into the game. 

All coaches need to "win now" or they lose their jobs.

Look at the women's team. Only 7 real players on the team and still only player with 6 and leave the Freshman Ellis sitting on the bench.

What good is developing players anyway. If they're good enough, they want to transfer anyway. If they don't play enough, they transfer anyway. No win in this age of the transfer portal.

100% Agree, JW had to go for the wins this year. The guys he brought in could play, they just didn't play well together and the system was a bit flawed as well. If these guys were lighting it up in practice, I seriously doubt he would have relegated them to the bench just because. Isaac Jack is a good example. He wasn't seeing the court much early on and Jo Smith was the guy. It was said Jack was beast mode in practice and showed good hands and touch. He also developed a chemistry with Foster in particular and made huge strides along the way. Blocker showed flashes, but he was also a liability in several games. I don't fault him for win now, today's fan cannot wait until next year on anything, everyone wants every freshman to be a star and if not in year 1 they are a bum. Buffalo's successful seasons had a nice blend of veteran and underclassman. Guys that paid their dues, were hungry for more. Perkins and CJ had to work for everything they got, they were not 4 start recruits, they busted their ass, showed the coaches that they needed to be on the court. Playing time is earned, not given because of the stars behind your name.

[DooleyBull06]

59 minutes ago, trueblue32 said:

Williamson was recruited as an undersized center who then redshirted to lose all the bulk that even made that possible. He looks like a small forward out there even when he's in at the end of the game with walk-ons. My guess is he goes D2 and is productive there. Blocker got 42% of minutes this season and was the worst contributor on the worst UB team in 10+ years. We don't need to see anything more from him. Mading is clearly raw with high upside, but the injuries/family situation was out of his or anybody at UB's control. You can only do so much development if you can't practice. The "we need to see what we have in them" comments are always weird. The coaches see SO much of them in practice, if they couldn't help our worst team in forever they're not long term pieces in all likelihood. That said I wish them all the best and appreciate the work they put in at UB even though it didn't pan out.

Then basically what you are saying is that Whitesell failed at recruiting. Because he brought these guys in. So obviously he’s a terrible talent evaluator.

[trueblue32]

23 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said:

Then basically what you are saying is that Whitesell failed at recruiting. Because he brought these guys in. So obviously he’s a terrible talent evaluator.

I don’t care anymore. I’m just saying we’re not losing much. I’m excited for a fresh start

[DooleyBull06]

1 hour ago, trueblue32 said:

I don’t care anymore. I’m just saying we’re not losing much. I’m excited for a fresh start

Same here. I felt no connection to this team. So I’m right there with you. 

[MDBullsfan89]

Figured Ceaser was gone with or without Whitesell. At this point, if any of C. Jones/Jack/Adams want to stay, great. Beyond that, I'll take the restart with the new coach's guys.

[Billydabull]

5 hours ago, trueblue32 said:

Williamson was recruited as an undersized center who then redshirted to lose all the bulk that even made that possible. He looks like a small forward out there even when he's in at the end of the game with walk-ons. My guess is he goes D2 and is productive there. Blocker got 42% of minutes this season and was the worst contributor on the worst UB team in 10+ years. We don't need to see anything more from him. Mading is clearly raw with high upside, but the injuries/family situation was out of his or anybody at UB's control. You can only do so much development if you can't practice. The "we need to see what we have in them" comments are always weird. The coaches see SO much of them in practice, if they couldn't help our worst team in forever they're not long term pieces in all likelihood. That said I wish them all the best and appreciate the work they put in at UB even though it didn't pan out.

Blocker was one of the best players in practice everyday if you watch Buffalo practice he was always a top 3 player! We will see that when he goes else where!

[MuchMany]

12 minutes ago, Billydabull said:

Blocker was one of the best players in practice everyday if you watch Buffalo practice he was always a top 3 player! We will see that when he goes else where!

Learning how to not travel on every other jab step and pivot would go a long way. The fundamental footwork across the roster was as bad as I've ever seen. 

[MKBullsfan]

Yooo who’s left? Haha the more players leave the better the new coach has to be at recruiting. Wonder if there is an assistant somewhere out there at a top program, in a high major conference, maybe even has some history with UB in the past and maybe even is from the Western NY area that we can hire? Wonder if there’s a coach like that out there?

[trueblue32]

 

[UBinMD]

7 minutes ago, trueblue32 said:

 

Meh schools, long list but nothing exciting to me on that list.

[DocCas86]

Hopefully not Ball State!

 

[bullsbball]

What's upsetting to me is that without a coach, we aren't putting "our" names on any of these transfer players' lists.

[trueblue32]

10 minutes ago, bullsbball said:

What's upsetting to me is that without a coach, we aren't putting "our" names on any of these transfer players' lists.

We're like 1/7th of the way to the total amount of transfers that will probably hit the portal and only a handful of them have verbally committed anywhere (for whatever that's even worth). Then there's also JUCO, D2, and HS players to consider. We only need to fill 5 scholarships so far, and up to 13 if everyone were to leave. Depending where our coach comes from some of our scholarships might be filled with transfers from the coach's previous stop. Patience.

Edited March 14, 2023 by trueblue32

[MuchMany]

19 minutes ago, DocCas86 said:

Hopefully not Ball State!

 

Good for Zid - I can picture him on a lot of those teams. He's got instant offense with good size and great athleticism, plus what I imagine is one of the best steal rates in the nation. Him being from Philly, I thought during the year that he wouldn't look out of place on Temple. Would rather not see him on BSU or Bona.

I'm interested to see what he looks like in a more structured offense. As frustrating as his shaky play was at times, consider that the biggest criticism many had of JW was the stale yet out of control offensive philosophy. I have a feeling that may have exaggerated some of the worst traits in our guys.

[Tee4three]

32 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Good for Zid - I can picture him on a lot of those teams. He's got instant offense with good size and great athleticism, plus what I imagine is one of the best steal rates in the nation. Him being from Philly, I thought during the year that he wouldn't look out of place on Temple. Would rather not see him on BSU or Bona.

I'm interested to see what he looks like in a more structured offense. As frustrating as his shaky play was at times, consider that the biggest criticism many had of JW was the stale yet out of control offensive philosophy. I have a feeling that may have exaggerated some of the worst traits in our guys.

I believe he was originally committed to northern Illinois before changing coaches, watching him play I could see the fit under their previous head coach

I can see him being very interested in UAB and SMU 

[enrique14150]

On 3/13/2023 at 1:07 PM, Tee4three said:

Mading Williamson and ceasar are 3 players I never understood why they didn't get more action to try and develop them (I'd add blocker too but the staff started to finally give him more time)

All three showed signs of something elite at a mid major level

Madding has some crazy skills if he puts them all together will be an insane player

Williamson lost defensively but some great offensive moves

Ceasar his speed and ability was obvious 

I understood.  Caesar couldn't play defense (yet).   Williamson looked sluggish and wasn't physical enough (yet).  Mading wasn't good enough (yet) to get meaningful playing time in games that mattered.  

I think a big thing in terms of "big picture" this year was the immediate need to find a starting five, the next couple off the bench, and some semblance of cohesion as a unit.  It was essentially a totally new team.  I thought guys got a lot of chances early to show what they could do, and the team largely settled into starting and sub roles by Christmas.  It was hard to give guys minutes to see what they could be in a year or two when you needed to get guys minutes so they could play as a team in 2 months.

[Tee4three]

2 minutes ago, enrique14150 said:

I understood.  Caesar couldn't play defense (yet).   Williamson looked sluggish and wasn't physical enough (yet).  Mading wasn't good enough (yet) to get meaningful playing time in games that mattered.  

I think a big thing in terms of "big picture" this year was the immediate need to find a starting five, the next couple off the bench, and some semblance of cohesion as a unit.  It was essentially a totally new team.  I thought guys got a lot of chances early to show what they could do, and the team largely settled into starting and sub roles by Christmas.  It was hard to give guys minutes to see what they could be in a year or two when you needed to get guys minutes so they could play as a team in 2 months.

Agree here

Guess what I was getting at was that a good coach finds a way to get 5 minutes a game for guys that you will need in the coming seasons, guys that will be you go to guys. It doesn't have to be 10 plus meaningful minutes to develop guys. It can be 2 minutes mid way through the first half. 

Saw it when rondo segu and jeenathan Williams were freshman - on that ranked team neither one really belonged on the floor but they still got a few minutes every game

 

[enrique14150]

Regarding Rachel Lenzi's article - I agree with some of it.

I agree with a lot of her statistical breakdown.  They were interestingly/curiously/frustratingly very good in some ratings (scoring, assists, steals) but very bad in others (points allowed per game, turnovers).  It all leads to where they ended up in the end.

The questions about the culture - it was entirely fair to criticize them for cutting a corner in recruiting Mballa.  If we're going to continue to laugh at a certain place about a forged welding certificate, this is fair game too.  But I don't want to put the Malik Zachary thing on anyone but Malik Zachary and anyone else who was there.  I don't recall him bringing in a previous character issue; it wasn't an official team event; there are reasons that got out of hand and it was dealt with appropriately.  I don't see how that reflects badly on the program or the coach, I'm not sure what else they could've done.  It was bad, it was unfortunate, the people involved were dealt with, they moved on.  If there are further issues about the culture of the team, I plead ignorance but I'm all ears.

Recruiting - criticism of the recruiting for incoming players next year is absolutely warranted.  That had to be a big red flag, okay this was a transition season but where was this going?  They had a small senior class this year because they had a huge one last year.   Without knowing some specifics as to why some guys left (besides leveraging this for a better opportunity elsewhere like Skogman did), how often are guys transferring and it's about what they want to do, not the program?  She kinda painted a picture of a team where people didn't want to play...but from my seat way up in 113 I saw a team that fought pretty hard every game.  The latest example being that Miami game, down 9 at half, in a game they didn't really need, and they turned it around and won.  The games they lost were largely a matter of a difference in talent, not effort.  To me that's where the recruiting has to get better, and that criticism felt valid.

Changes over the years - I dispute the idea that it was "raucous" in the previous years.  There were a lot more people there, but most of them didn't do anything.  Today's students sit on their hands or glare at their phones, they don't see it as much of a participatory endeavor as before.  As some other people have noted - this is a Bills town first and foremost.  Even with a more attractive product this year, the Sabres have a lot of empty seats.  UB at best comes in third place. A lot of people showed up because they were really good - the shine was always going to wear off that, and you were always going to see who were the folks just showing up to check it out and be along for the ride, and who were the ones who love going to games and are with it no matter what.  

Yes, UB has played some big teams but they never get to play them here.  I struggle to call Bona "big" (they're not) but those games had a lot more energy in the building, so do Friday night MAC games against Kent or Akron.  The program didn't do much until MAC play to market the games; they still have ZERO idea how to bring any collegiate atmosphere to the one-third of a season in there without the band or students; for that lack of effort, what do you expect?  No one good will play them here - which means there are no marquee games to get the notice of the community and alums, the ones who only showed up when they were top 25, made no noise, because it was the cool place to be.  I'm old enough to have been there for the Sea of Blue games, I've been there for UConn and Pitt and BC getting a tough game at Alumni (unfortunately I missed the UNC game, I was away at school), so I know full well what the potential is and the crowd hasn't come close to that in a long time.

[MuchMany]

21 minutes ago, enrique14150 said:

I understood.  Caesar couldn't play defense (yet).   Williamson looked sluggish and wasn't physical enough (yet).  Mading wasn't good enough (yet) to get meaningful playing time in games that mattered.

100% disagree on Mading. He had forced his way into the rotation and would have stayed there if not for injuries/personal. His shot blocking presence would have helped a lot in conference play.

[enrique14150]

13 minutes ago, Tee4three said:

Agree here

Guess what I was getting at was that a good coach finds a way to get 5 minutes a game for guys that you will need in the coming seasons, guys that will be you go to guys. It doesn't have to be 10 plus meaningful minutes to develop guys. It can be 2 minutes mid way through the first half. 

Saw it when rondo segu and jeenathan Williams were freshman - on that ranked team neither one really belonged on the floor but they still got a few minutes every game

 

I agree with you on that.  There were games where I thought the same, maybe they should've made more time at the end for those guys.  I kept coming back to, the rest of the team is so new together that they need all the minutes and reps they can get.  They could put Williams and Segu in because you could assume CJ, Perkins, Dontay etc had it down.  This group didn't yet.

[enrique14150]

2 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

100% disagree on Mading. He had forced his way into the rotation and would have stayed there if not for injuries/personal. His shot blocking presence would have helped a lot in conference play.

Okay.  I'm not aware of his injuries/personal issues, so I can understand if those got in the way of contributing more.  He had a good reach and an interesting touch that showed he could do something someday.

[John]

20 hours ago, MuchMany said:

Good for Zid - I can picture him on a lot of those teams. He's got instant offense with good size and great athleticism, plus what I imagine is one of the best steal rates in the nation. Him being from Philly, I thought during the year that he wouldn't look out of place on Temple. Would rather not see him on BSU or Bona.

I'm interested to see what he looks like in a more structured offense. As frustrating as his shaky play was at times, consider that the biggest criticism many had of JW was the stale yet out of control offensive philosophy. I have a feeling that may have exaggerated some of the worst traits in our guys.

I agree Powell showed a lot of athletic ability but he was totally one dimensional. He could not hit three’s, he had no pull up jumper. All he could do was drive to the basket and he would drive irregardless if their were players in his way or not. After a few games most if not all of the MAC teams knew what to do against him.Inso many of the games I watched they would leave him out on the perimeter and just pack it in. He really did not play team ball. Again he is very athletic but like many on this team did not have the team first attitude. I really do wonder what the coaches were drawing up in their huddles. I still can’t believe it was give the ball to Powell and let him drive to the basket when it wasn’t there???? Knowing how to play the game takes more than athletic ability. Interesting to see what a new coach and different players will mean to our success or failure.

[MuchMany]

7 hours ago, enrique14150 said:

The questions about the culture - it was entirely fair to criticize them for cutting a corner in recruiting Mballa.  If we're going to continue to laugh at a certain place about a forged welding certificate, this is fair game too.  But I don't want to put the Malik Zachary thing on anyone but Malik Zachary and anyone else who was there.  I don't recall him bringing in a previous character issue; it wasn't an official team event; there are reasons that got out of hand and it was dealt with appropriately.  I don't see how that reflects badly on the program or the coach, I'm not sure what else they could've done.  It was bad, it was unfortunate, the people involved were dealt with, they moved on.  If there are further issues about the culture of the team, I plead ignorance but I'm all ears.

A colleague of mine who played AAU with Zachary for a long time described him as "not a great guy." So there's that. Also the Chanse Robinson saga that appears to have continued after his time here. Seems like this staff may have walked the line between giving kids a chance and inviting trouble. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by MuchMany
bad

[enrique14150]

One of the toughest things for us as fans, in terms of evaluating how the players are doing, is we only see the games.  I suppose there are some insiders that might see practice, or know how guys practice, I don't know - I'm not one of them.  We see someone doing badly in a game and wonder why so and so isn't playing instead- maybe they look worse in practice.  I don't know who's a problem and who is coachable.  I don't know what they're working on and who practices hard and who's picking things up and improving.  I've come to try to appreciate what I can't and don't know.