Bryan Hodgson

[UBinMD]

Yep

Edited March 11 by UBinMD

[clodney]

Let me see if I have this straight.

JMU has 20,346 Undergrads and 1,878 Graduate Students and they get $2,340 out of every student for $52MM.

UB has 21,467 Undergrads and 10,865 Graduate Students and they get $480 out of only the Undergrads for $10.3MM.

If that's the case, therein lies the problem. I hope Graduate Students don't get any perks for Athletic events and are paying full price.

 

[John]

20 hours ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

 

I along with our family and many fans do totally agree. We went from Hurley to Oats who was a high school coach and learned from Hurley and we could of kept all that momentum going with another up and comer coach in Hodgson who as the successful years came began more outspoken  and comfortable on the sidelines not withstanding he had a successful recruiting record and was well known in recruiting circles. Again a local guy who we talked to many times who seemed to be engaged and genuine with fans. Whitesell was  a good assistant coach and a really nice guy and now he is a happy camper at Albany in the slot that is good for him. Again with the culture and chaos now in college basketball the power conferences will continue to succeed with their millions of dollars and who knows where the mid majors will end up.

[Big 4 Hoops Blogger]

The magic is about to run out for Arkansas State. They're down 15 in the 2nd half against James Madison.

[DaBulls99]

7 hours ago, UBinMD said:

Assuming UB is still around 28,000 undergrads, that would be $65,520,000. That well exceeds our published Athletics budget for the year. In 2021-22, we expended $39.5 Million with revenues of $40.1 Million. It likely increased last year and this year at least incrementally. UB in Fall 2023 was $265.75 per semester or $531.50 = ~$14.9 Million. Raise it to $1,500/Year and you would end at $42 Million, excluding anything you receive from ticket sales, bowl payouts, pay games for MBB/Football, merchandise, etc. Certainly something that could be considered. JMU was at $58 Million for the Athletic Department Budget (highest in the Sunbelt on Day 1 of joining the conference).

The powers that be there feel athletics is important and enhances the school's profile. UB, as of now, does not have that same commitment. 

Last I heard total enrollment was over 31,000. Not sure of the split. 

[Chet]

Loss to #68 and top rated Sun Belt team James Madison. Disappointing finish for a really good first season for BH. They play a lot like the Bulls good ‘ole days. Fun to watch and a great brand of basketball. I’ll continue to root for BH and JQ. 

[Chet]

JMU swept their MAC opponents this year including Akron, Can’t and us. To be fair, Bulls loss by 15 on the road while A-State lost by 20 on a neutral court. 

[UBinMD]

22 minutes ago, Chet said:

JMU swept their MAC opponents this year including Akron, Can’t and us. To be fair, Bulls loss by 15 on the road while A-State lost by 20 on a neutral court. 

Down 13 at the half. We lost the 2nd half by 2 points. Shot 45.3%, 34.6% 3-pointers, FT 64.3%. We were out rebounded by 8. The killer for us was 18 TO to 8 for JMU. They were 7-0 and #22 at the time. In hindsight one of our better efforts.

[rma]

6 hours ago, clodney said:

Let me see if I have this straight.

JMU has 20,346 Undergrads and 1,878 Graduate Students and they get $2,340 out of every student for $52MM.

UB has 21,467 Undergrads and 10,865 Graduate Students and they get $480 out of only the Undergrads for $10.3MM.

If that's the case, therein lies the problem. I hope Graduate Students don't get any perks for Athletic events and are paying full price.

 

UB students are going to oppose any sort of fee increase, especially one that would increase fees to our football program. Grad students especially would also oppose the athletic fee, which I can completely understand. Grad students also don't get admission to athletic events. JMU is a bit of a party school and doesn't exactly have an academic reputation.

I didn't realize until after I graduated how much of UB is subsidized, whether by taxpayers or donors. Tuition is $3,535 a semester, which is an absolute steal especially compared to our academic regional (non-SUNY) peers for in-state tuition.

UB $3,535

UMass Amherst $8,295.50 (includes athletics fee)

UConn Storrs $8,505

Rutgers NB $6,837

Penn State UP $9,836

Yet you can go on the UB subreddit and find a bunch of undergrads that will complain about the cost of tuition being too high. The ROI if you don't get a meal plan and live off campus is absurd.

[BrooklynBull]

16 hours ago, clodney said:

Let me see if I have this straight.

JMU has 20,346 Undergrads and 1,878 Graduate Students and they get $2,340 out of every student for $52MM.

UB has 21,467 Undergrads and 10,865 Graduate Students and they get $480 out of only the Undergrads for $10.3MM.

If that's the case, therein lies the problem. I hope Graduate Students don't get any perks for Athletic events and are paying full price.

 

Gradate students have to pay to go to games and to use facilities on campus.

[UBinMD]

4 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said:

Gradate students have to pay to go to games and to use facilities on campus.

Raise the fee to $1,500/year per student, grad and undergrad and give them access and free tickets. $46.5 Million assuming 31,000 students. Not a bad start.

[Blue03]

10 hours ago, rma said:

UB students are going to oppose any sort of fee increase, especially one that would increase fees to our football program. Grad students especially would also oppose the athletic fee, which I can completely understand. Grad students also don't get admission to athletic events. JMU is a bit of a party school and doesn't exactly have an academic reputation.

I didn't realize until after I graduated how much of UB is subsidized, whether by taxpayers or donors. Tuition is $3,535 a semester, which is an absolute steal especially compared to our academic regional (non-SUNY) peers for in-state tuition.

UB $3,535

UMass Amherst $8,295.50 (includes athletics fee)

UConn Storrs $8,505

Rutgers NB $6,837

Penn State UP $9,836

Yet you can go on the UB subreddit and find a bunch of undergrads that will complain about the cost of tuition being too high. The ROI if you don't get a meal plan and live off campus is absurd.

Oh it gets better. Students of families (in state) that make a household income less than $125,000 pay $0.00 in tuition. The only thing I’ve had to pay is meal plan (first 2 years), dorm (first 2 years), and fees. Graduating in 10 weeks, over the course of my 3 years (came in with AP credits and such) I’ll have paid approximately 30,000 for everything. About 25,000 of that would be room and board, as Ellicott was about 9,000 and Greiner about 10,000. This entire year (not including off campus rent) I’ll have paid the school around 2,500. It really is a steal. 

Edited March 12 by Blue03

[UBinMD]

1 hour ago, Blue03 said:

Oh it gets better. Students of families (in state) that make a household income less than $125,000 pay $0.00 in tuition. The only thing I’ve had to pay is meal plan (first 2 years), dorm (first 2 years), and fees. Graduating in 10 weeks, over the course of my 3 years (came in with AP credits and such) I’ll have paid approximately 30,000 for everything. About 25,000 of that would be room and board, as Ellicott was about 9,000 and Greiner about 10,000. This entire year (not including off campus rent) I’ll have paid the school around 2,500. It really is a steal. 

That's fantastic. I graduated in 94, got my masters in 95 (on an assistantship so I paid $0 tuition and got a stipend). I lived in Ellicott for 3 years, walked out with $0 debt and a great education, had a job before I graduated. It was a great value for sure and it's shocking more people don't take advantage of it!

[MuchMany]

18 hours ago, clodney said:

Let me see if I have this straight.

JMU has 20,346 Undergrads and 1,878 Graduate Students and they get $2,340 out of every student for $52MM.

UB has 21,467 Undergrads and 10,865 Graduate Students and they get $480 out of only the Undergrads for $10.3MM.

If that's the case, therein lies the problem. I hope Graduate Students don't get any perks for Athletic events and are paying full price.

 

I wish someone had laid out this math earlier. There's been a lot of discussion about why we can't seem to enter the same athletic "weight class" with our flagship peers in size and quality. This math is why.

Now the question is, do students pay less here for athletics because they don't care, or do they not care because they pay less? How does such a lack of interest get passed down year after year to fresh student bodies?

JMU gets accurately described as a party school, but is UB more similar to that or to Austin/Ann Arbor? When sitting in Alumni pondering empty student sections, I've felt like UB gets mostly two kinds of kids - commuters who lack interest in "the college experience" and nerds/internationals with the same lack of interest. The missing middle of average kids who like sports and aren't too cool to wear school colors is what I'm curious about.

[BrooklynBull]

12 minutes ago, UBinMD said:

That's fantastic. I graduated in 94, got my masters in 95 (on an assistantship so I paid $0 tuition and got a stipend). I lived in Ellicott for 3 years, walked out with $0 debt and a great education, had a job before I graduated. It was a great value for sure and it's shocking more people don't take advantage of it!

My tuition was $750.00 per year (not semester) when I started.  Including room and board, it was still cheaper than what my parents paid per year for 7th and 8th grade for me.

[BrooklynBull]

5 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

is UB more similar to that or to Austin/Ann Arbor?

Do not know about Austin, but Michigan is closer to JMU than we are.  I had a friend whose son went there, in part because of athletics.  In his first three years he never made it into the stadium for a football game.  Too much partying going on outside the stadium.

[MuchMany]

1 minute ago, BrooklynBull said:

Do not know about Austin, but Michigan is closer to JMU than we are.  I had a friend whose son went there, in part because of athletics.  In his first three years he never made it into the stadium for a football game.  Too much partying going on outside the stadium.

Definitely, Ann Arbor has the best of both worlds when it comes to academics and athletics/fun. So does Madison. I was wondering more about the academic vs party reputation of UB relative to a place like JMU. 

[UBinMD]

17 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

I wish someone had laid out this math earlier. There's been a lot of discussion about why we can't seem to enter the same athletic "weight class" with our flagship peers in size and quality. This math is why.

Now the question is, do students pay less here for athletics because they don't care, or do they not care because they pay less? How does such a lack of interest get passed down year after year to fresh student bodies?

JMU gets accurately described as a party school, but is UB more similar to that or to Austin/Ann Arbor? When sitting in Alumni pondering empty student sections, I've felt like UB gets mostly two kinds of kids - commuters who lack interest in "the college experience" and nerds/internationals with the same lack of interest. The missing middle of average kids who like sports and aren't too cool to wear school colors is what I'm curious about.

If I was a betting man, I would expect that the Athletic fees have never really be adjusted for the UB to be a D1 school. Maybe it's a SUNY thing, maybe it's a UB decision, not sure. schools like JMU, etc. obviously made a decision that Athletics was important to the college profile. For the first time ever, they went over 40,000 applications to their school. Athletics is a major component of college life. A friend of my daughter went to Virginia Tech instead of one of 12 other colleges she could have gone to for free because she wanted to go to football games (a stupid decision in my opinion, but it is a real thing these days). I was at UB when we went to D1. There was a little rumble, I religiously attended football, MBB, WBB, volleyball, wrestling etc. in the early days. However, in my opinion, it was not touted as the big deal it really was and felt like we missed out on that moment and things just rolled along from there. 20 years later we became pretty good and had some really nice success. Now we are back at the bottom of the bell curve. UB Administration has done a very poor job getting excitement, they couldn't even get quality gear for students and fans to buy or a way to buy online or anything for a long time, mindboggling. 

[everlast2504]

1 hour ago, UBinMD said:

If I was a betting man, I would expect that the Athletic fees have never really be adjusted for the UB to be a D1 school. Maybe it's a SUNY thing, maybe it's a UB decision, not sure. schools like JMU, etc. obviously made a decision that Athletics was important to the college profile. For the first time ever, they went over 40,000 applications to their school. Athletics is a major component of college life. A friend of my daughter went to Virginia Tech instead of one of 12 other colleges she could have gone to for free because she wanted to go to football games (a stupid decision in my opinion, but it is a real thing these days). I was at UB when we went to D1. There was a little rumble, I religiously attended football, MBB, WBB, volleyball, wrestling etc. in the early days. However, in my opinion, it was not touted as the big deal it really was and felt like we missed out on that moment and things just rolled along from there. 20 years later we became pretty good and had some really nice success. Now we are back at the bottom of the bell curve. UB Administration has done a very poor job getting excitement, they couldn't even get quality gear for students and fans to buy or a way to buy online or anything for a long time, mindboggling. 

It's 10000000000000% a SUNY thing. SUNY already made a choice to kill athletics in the 1970s. Their track record is not good. 

[UBinMD]

1 minute ago, everlast2504 said:

It's 10000000000000% a SUNY thing. SUNY already made a choice to kill athletics in the 1970s. Their track record is not good. 

So why do they keep letting more in with Stoney brook, Binghamton, Albany, etc. why beat your head against that wall?

[Blue03]

I’ll just drop this here for everyone’s reference. The comprehensive fee covers pretty much everything outside of of tuition, the break down is included in the link. Currently the fee is approximately $1,484 (so 1500). Athletics receives 12.3% of that per student, multiplied by the student body, that brought in $9,580,417 last year. Interpret all this as you choose

 

https://www.buffalo.edu/studentaccounts/tuition-and-fees/broad-based-fees/comprehensive-fee.html

Edited March 12 by Blue03

[capencaper]

19 minutes ago, Blue03 said:

I’ll just drop this here for everyone’s reference. The comprehensive fee covers pretty much everything outside of of tuition, the break down is included in the link. Currently the fee is approximately $1,484 (so 1500). Athletics receives 12.3% of that per student, multiplied by the student body, that brought in $9,580,417 last year. Interpret all this as you choose

 

https://www.buffalo.edu/studentaccounts/tuition-and-fees/broad-based-fees/comprehensive-fee.html

Keep in mind that the Athletics portion "Supports 20 competitive sports teams, open and structured recreation (payroll and infrastructure), intramurals and sports clubs."  So even the $9.58 million isn't an accurate picture of the money that goes toward D1 athletics. 

[Blue03]

9 minutes ago, capencaper said:

Keep in mind that the Athletics portion "Supports 20 competitive sports teams, open and structured recreation (payroll and infrastructure), intramurals and sports clubs."  So even the $9.58 million isn't an accurate picture of the money that goes toward D1 athletics. 

Correct. It also includes the cost of letting students use the facilities, student employees, and such

[clodney]

48 minutes ago, everlast2504 said:

It's 10000000000000% a SUNY thing. SUNY already made a choice to kill athletics in the 1970s. Their track record is not good. 

Why is it up to SUNY to determine how much we charge our student body for Athletics? Do they have control over that? 

JMU has one of the highest student fees in the country yet their applications have gone up 78% over the last 3 years and they now have more prospective applicants than UB. As usualy, there were the professionally outraged academia folks complaining about the high fees at JMU but overall the school has become more popular due to the success of their athletics programs. UB should take note.

To me it seems we had the perfect opportunity to raise that fee income substantially when we were winning a few years ago. Doing it now would be difficult though. 

[rma]

20 minutes ago, capencaper said:

Keep in mind that the Athletics portion "Supports 20 competitive sports teams, open and structured recreation (payroll and infrastructure), intramurals and sports clubs."  So even the $9.58 million isn't an accurate picture of the money that goes toward D1 athletics. 

I think that’s old and they now have a recreation fee. We also don’t have 20 D1 teams anymore

3 hours ago, MuchMany said:

Now the question is, do students pay less here for athletics because they don't care, or do they not care because they pay less? How does such a lack of interest get passed down year after year to fresh student bodies?

I think it’s a combination of a number of factors. No sports culture to begin with so nobody cares. UB is the cheap option, so lots of budget minded students that are here for the education aspect only. Pro teams in town so if you want to catch some sports you go there. (Joke’s on us, our tax dollars are still paying for those teams!)

If the school decided to increase fees and it wasn’t put to a student vote, I suspect you would hear some complaining but overall it’s not going to decrease enrollment because UB is already cheap and a better value than most/all other SUNYs. 

Edited March 12 by rma