Coaching Search 2023 Edition

[Jeseph]

11 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said:

He and Fitzpatrick follow each other on Twitter.

That's proven to mean absolutely nothing during this search.

[DocCas86]

Not saying UB doesn't end up with a decent coach at the end of this, but there should be a frank assessment of the reasons why we missed on our top prospects.  Then a plan / prioritization to address these issues needs to be created, so the Bulls are in better shape for attracting talent going forward.

[Jeseph]

10 minutes ago, DocCas86 said:

Not saying UB doesn't end up with a decent coach at the end of this, but there should be a frank assessment of the reasons why we missed on our top prospects.  Then a plan / prioritization to address these issues needs to be created, so the Bulls are in better shape for attracting talent going forward.

I'm sure the department will do a great job reviewing their own shortcomings.

[dutchcountry7]

2 hours ago, DaBulls99 said:

Gonna call BS on that. Our overall budget is the largest in the MAC. Our basketball budget including operating expenses and recruiting is tops in the conference. Facilities are on par with the conference and competitive with all our peer schools. What you’re saying isn’t backed by the facts. You can look it all up. 
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

The EADA report is a governmental report that was created by politicians and bureaucrats that have no understanding of educational or athletic financial reporting.  As a result, this publicly available dataset is largely considered worthless when comparing different schools to one another.  A major reason for this is the lack of established reporting procedures that create uniform reporting to address the various different ways in which institutions operate and how their internal accounting functions are handled. 

For instance, if you pull the University of Oklahoma's data you will see that their golf program generated $502,715 in revenue last year.  Of course, this is curious since their program doesn't charge admission to contests or have any athletically related revenue for the program.  So how did this number end up in the EADA report?  Well, that is the amount of money that the University transferred to the golf program to cover it's operating shortfall.  We don't think of that as revenue, but due to the organizational structure and internal accounting processes utilized at the University of Oklahoma it is technical golf revenue.

A common issue is surrounding the accounting of facility costs.  Some schools use internal accounting to account for program utilization of facilities.  For instance, a basketball program may be "charged" against their budget each time they use their basketball arena for a game or practice.  Or they may be charged a flat fee annually from the athletic department budget and applied to the basketball team (split evenly between the genders) to cover debt service on their game or practice facility.  This is not really a true expense when you compare the school to others but is simply used for internal accounting to account for a facility that is used by all kinds of campus programs.  It can be a useful way to ration usage and give priority to different programs. 

So while some basketball (or volleyball, or wrestling, or whatever) programs have tens of thousands of dollars (or even hundreds of thousands of dollars) included in their operating budgets to cover these internal facility rental fees other programs don't have these costs as their facility costs fall under institutional or athletic department costs that are not accounted for within the basketball program's accounting.

Due to these different accounting processes and broad categorization used in EADA reporting these figures can be deceptively off by millions from what you'd expect them to be for a specific school.

As a result of these various issues, the NCAA doesn't use the EADA reports.  The NCAA has their own financial reporting guidelines for the NCAA's annual financial statements that are the golden standard in intercollegiate athletic financial reporting.  These have finely tuned reporting standards that ensure uniformity between academic institutions which allows for an accurate comparison.

The issue here is that these records are not public records.  They are provided to the NCAA only for internal reporting and program/policy review.  Very few schools make these reports public which makes it difficult to actually compare institutions.

If you'd like to compare two such reports, I have included both reports for the University of Kansas (2021-2022).  Their state laws require their NCAA Financial Report to be made public in addition to the EADA report.

EADA Report (the numbers you linked to which are not informative): https://kuathletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/2022-EADA-Survey.pdf 

NCAA Financial Statement: https://kuathletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/21-22-NCAA-Report.pdf

[dutchcountry7]

2 hours ago, DaBulls99 said:

Gonna call BS on that. Our overall budget is the largest in the MAC. Our basketball budget including operating expenses and recruiting is tops in the conference. Facilities are on par with the conference and competitive with all our peer schools. What you’re saying isn’t backed by the facts. You can look it all up. 
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

Or... if you simply want the short version...

The proof is in the pudding.  If the resources and commitment is so great, why would coaches be turning the jobs down due to resources and commitment?

[capencaper]

2 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

I'm sure the department will do a great job reviewing their own shortcomings.

At the end of the day it should be up to the University president to do an assessment, especially if he was convinced that buying out Whitesell was the correct choice.

[MuchMany]

34 minutes ago, trueblue32 said:

Austin Claunch (aside from not having known NE connections) would be a good hire. He's a well regarded up and comer. His record at Nicholls (which is still good) understates the job that he has done there. The Southland is one of the worst conferences in the country and Nicholls was rated as the worst job in that conference.
https://watchstadium.com/southland-basketball-coaches-rank-the-best-jobs-in-the-conference-08-29-2019/

KenPom ranks them as the #309 program in the country and that's AFTER the 4 successful years that Claunch has had there. He was also known as an early embracer of the transfer portal, and I'd suspect could cobble a good roster together from the portal alone in short order.

He wouldn't have been one of my top options but I'd be happy if we can land him

I always appreciate your perspective, but I'm still having a hard time getting up for this one. Our clear 6th or 7th choice who has done fine relative to his nothing program. The metrics even for their "good" seasons are still brutal. Sure the jump to the MAC should yield better recruits, but again he has no roots in the midwest or northeast so he's starting from behind.

I'm just not seeing the appeal. Are we looking for guys like Claunch and Calhoun specifically because they've had some success at shit jobs? 

[BullBoy]

I’m just asking but what would we have thought of Nate Oats if he was an outside candidate?

[MuchMany]

Just now, BullBoy said:

I’m just asking but what would we have thought of Nate Oats if he was an outside candidate?

As a high school coach or as a two-year assistant under Hurley? Fair point though, and why I won't write anyone off before seeing their performance. Hard to get excited though knowing we targeted, got somewhat close to landing, and lost the guy many of us considered to be the dream candidate. 

[Jeseph]

1 minute ago, BullBoy said:

I’m just asking but what would we have thought of Nate Oats if he was an outside candidate?

Oats felt like a stretch but he was an internal hire highly regarded by both Bobby Hurley and others in the procession. Calhoun and Claunch have already held HC positions and aren't overwhelmingly impressive in those roles (though, they've had decent success).

[dutchcountry7]

2 hours ago, Dabulls said:

90-60 head coaching career. Only 33 years old. I don’t mind this at all

They have played a pretty tough OOC schedule which means more losses too.

This stat is one that catches my eye...

In the 43 years Nicholls State has had a D1 program... they have claimed only five regular season conference championships.  Two of those have been in the last three years thanks to the young coach.

[trueblue32]

17 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

I always appreciate your perspective, but I'm still having a hard time getting up for this one. Our clear 6th or 7th choice who has done fine relative to his nothing program. The metrics even for their "good" seasons are still brutal. Sure the jump to the MAC should yield better recruits, but again he has no roots in the midwest or northeast so he's starting from behind.

I'm just not seeing the appeal. Are we looking for guys like Claunch and Calhoun specifically because they've had some success at shit jobs? 

I will say, the order in which Alnutt has reached out to them does not mean a ton to me. Claunch is more interesting to me than Calhoun, and pretty even with Halcovage and Jones. Claunch has been a hot name for people that follow the D1 landscape for a few years now.  Hiring a 33 year old with head coaching experience is good, Hodgson/Cohen are similar ages (maybe even older?) with no experience leading a program. People wanted a young up and comer and now they're confronted with what that means with a MAC program hiring from low majors and now they're scared.

[BullBoy]

17 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

As a high school coach or as a two-year assistant under Hurley? Fair point though, and why I won't write anyone off before seeing their performance. Hard to get excited though knowing we targeted, got somewhat close to landing, and lost the guy many of us considered to be the dream candidate. 

Probably either. If we had a high school coach and a two-year MAC assistant, what would we think?

[BasketBull]

19 minutes ago, BullBoy said:

I’m just asking but what would we have thought of Nate Oats if he was an outside candidate?

I think if it was the equivalent situation (ie presumptive next in line and lead recruiter for a MAC squad that just went to its first NCAA tournament) then I think you could have sold that to fans. I admittedly can’t think of a comparable assistant in the MAC I’d be excited about being involved with right now. 

[dutchcountry7]

1 hour ago, MuchMany said:

This is getting kind of grim. Nicholls State is an absolute basketball backwater in rural Louisiana. He's only cracked the top 200 on Torvik once despite racking up wins in the bad Southland. Zero regional connections to the MAC. He played D3 at Emory which is a fantastic academic institution, so I'll hold out hope that he's a bright guy. But this is not the pedigree of coach that any of us expected to be considered.

How can we expect this guy and his early rosters to compete against Boals, Kolwaczyk, Grocery, Senderoff, and their squads? I have the creeping feeling that returning Whitesell and all of our actually quite talented players for another year would have been a better option knowing what we know now. 

The fact he played at Emory is one of the benefits.  D3 players who get into D1 coaching make it there because they have some attribute that allows them to succeed in spite of their athletic resume.  Emory plays in the highly competitive UAA which is able to compete with the bottom of D1.  The Emory program is highly respected and has become a very strong program thanks to Zimmerman who Austin Claunch played under.

Zimmerman was on staff at Davidson for 11 years under the Bob McKillop system before taking over at Emory.  He was highly respected by McKillop.  In fact, when McKillop wanted his son Matt to get experience coaching outside of his shadow he reached out to Zimmerman and Matt McKillop joined the Emory staff.  Matt McKillop has now taken over his father's program in the A10.  That's a ringing endorsement of Zimmerman by Bob McKillop which lends me to believe Austin Claunch got some good coaching at Emory.

Since being at Emory, he has been on staff in the A10, ACC, and Southland where he has succeeded as a young head coach.

It's an interesting prospect for sure.

[everlast2504]

Claunch also isn't a done deal yet. We are assuming it is. 

[MuchMany]

11 minutes ago, Erie County said:

A pretty decent job is really funny. He dumpstered the program. 

The program finds itself in a strange position. It feels like he "dumpstered" the program, but the returning roster would have been picked 4th or 5th preseason in the MAC next year barring significant losses in the portal (and there's no reason to think that would have happened). Alnutt tried to pull the tablecloth with the hopes of not disturbing what was a decent dinner, but instead there are plates and cups all over the floor.

[Jeseph]

6 minutes ago, trueblue32 said:

Claunch has been a hot name for people that follow the D1 landscape for a few years now.

It looks like he "went through the process" with both New Mexico State and Idaho earlier this month. Don't see much mention of why those deals didn't get done.

[UBfan44]

2 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

It looks like he "went through the process" with both New Mexico State and Idaho earlier this month. Don't see much mention of why those deals didn't get done.

Judging from our search, it very well could’ve been him saying no to the schools (I hope?) 

[trueblue32]

4 minutes ago, Jeseph said:

It looks like he "went through the process" with both New Mexico State and Idaho earlier this month. Don't see much mention of why those deals didn't get done.

New Mexico St had a player arrested for murder and they basically cleaned house with that program. I understand not wanting to touch it with a ten foot pole if you are still on the way up. I don’t know about Idaho but it could just be that it’s Idaho. Not sure it’d have been an upgrade enough to justify starting over

[MuchMany]

7 minutes ago, trueblue32 said:

I will say, the order in which Alnutt has reached out to them does not mean a ton to me. Claunch is more interesting to me than Calhoun, and pretty even with Halcovage and Jones. Claunch has been a hot name for people that follow the D1 landscape for a few years now.  Hiring a 33 year old with head coaching experience is good, Hodgson/Cohen are similar ages (maybe even older?) with no experience leading a program. People wanted a young up and comer and now they're confronted with what that means with a MAC program hiring from low majors and now they're scared.

Curious why the order doesn't matter? It represents a clear preference that roughly matches how the industry regards s said potential candidates. I haven't seen him mentioned anywhere as a "hot name," more a good up-and-coming coach who we just saw teased about "desperately trying to get out of" his current position. I'd love to read some write-ups if he's indeed regarded as cutting edge or proficient in any particular area. Like Calhoun has had fantastic offenses, like top 25 in the country, and his name mentioned for NBA assistant jobs. Is there anything like that for Claunch?

4 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

The fact he played at Emory is one of the benefits.  D3 players who get into D1 coaching make it there because they have some attribute that allows them to succeed in spite of their athletic resume.  Emory plays in the highly competitive UAA which is able to compete with the bottom of D1.  The Emory program is highly respected and has become a very strong program thanks to Zimmerman who Austin Claunch played under.

Zimmerman was on staff at Davidson for 11 years under the Bob McKillop system before taking over at Emory.  He was highly respected by McKillop.  In fact, when McKillop wanted his son Matt to get experience coaching outside of his shadow he reached out to Zimmerman and Matt McKillop joined the Emory staff.  Matt McKillop has now taken over his father's program in the A10.  That's a ringing endorsement of Zimmerman by Bob McKillop which lends me to believe Austin Claunch got some good coaching at Emory.

Since being at Emory, he has been on staff in the A10, ACC, and Southland where he has succeeded as a young head coach.

It's an interesting prospect for sure.

This is presented well, thanks. As you saw, the Emory part caught my eye - most kids going there have 1400+ SAT scores. He's also a program legend there, so he was a real hooper. Hell, he's probably active on the court in practice which I always dig. I like the connection to the McKillop's through Zimmerman. He has a reputation for developing point guards, which in the MAC is key because the best teams usually have two on the court at the same time. It's a matter of parsing out of how much of a traditionally terrible program's relative success should he be credited for, and why are their metrics still deep in the red during that "success."

[yussi1870]

14 minutes ago, everlast2504 said:

Claunch also isn't a done deal yet. We are assuming it is. 

But does he have a southern accent?

[ChubbyHubby]

Maybe we should try ZipRecruiter.com or Indeed.com

Edited March 30, 2023 by ChubbyHubby
Spelling

[yussi1870]

1 hour ago, Jeseph said:

I'm sure the department will do a great job reviewing their own shortcomings.

They will hire CSA to do it.

[trueblue32]

18 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Curious why the order doesn't matter? It represents a clear preference that roughly matches how the industry regards s said potential candidates

It seems we all agree that Alnutt is doing a bad job so I don't know why you would assume his list is perfectly numbered and it's just everything else that is going poorly. I'm just speaking personally to my view of them as candidates.

18 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

I haven't seen him mentioned anywhere as a "hot name," more a good up-and-coming coach who we just saw teased about "desperately trying to get out of" his current position.

Yeah I mean they had a slightly down year and there are thousands of coaches so "hot name" lists tend to have a pretty heavy degree of recency bias. ESPN had him at #24 a couple years ago in their 40 under 40 list (Adam Cohen was an honorable mention). I don't see trying to leave Nicholls State as a negative thing lol

Like I said he wouldn't have been my top choice, I just wanted to provide some more context to the record checking that was posted

18 minutes ago, MuchMany said:

Like Calhoun has had fantastic offenses, like top 25 in the country

Not sure where you're getting this number from. They were 47th in the country in offense this year. His previous years at Youngstown were 177, 171, 173, 178, 242. Claunch's areas of expertise I would say are finding undervalued players in the portal and pressure defense (twice being top 10 nationally in turnover rate)

Edited March 30, 2023 by trueblue32