Jeseph Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tee4three said: Does Mark Alnutt have a Bobby Hurley in his pocket? If so we may see a new coach, if not you have to let whitesell succeed or fail this coming season. This will fully be his team. Not many excuse will be able to be made I really don't think a big search from scratch this offseason for a new coach is beneficial to the school/program going forward. If you got someone ready to go I'm all for it though IMO every AD has (or should have) a list on hand unless they know they are solid I don't think this has been true for Alnutt and I think it's a large part of what has us in our current position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 43 minutes ago, Jeseph said: IMO every AD has (or should have) a list on hand unless they know they are solid I don't think this has been true for Alnutt and I think it's a large part of what has us in our current position. Totally agree. That list should be in their pocket at all times. That way they aren’t caught off guard. Which takes me to Oats…we knew he was gonna be a hot commodity and it seemed like we were unprepared for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 hours ago, skrabukes said: I can't argue/disagree with these questions. I think that next year's team builds around Skogman currently. Hopefully a new core of players bring the true "blue collar" mindset back, as it's been greatly missed and lacking on thr floor. Skogman should be a double double machine next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB92 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Tee4three said: Does Mark Alnutt have a Bobby Hurley in his pocket? If so we may see a new coach, if not you have to let whitesell succeed or fail this coming season. This will fully be his team. Not many excuse will be able to be made I think the likelihood of a new coach this upcoming season is the same as UB making the tournament this year as an at-large. Think about it: same president and same AD as when Whitesell was hired. They just gave him an extension this past summer through the 2025 season. Considering we just finished the 2021 season, that's a contract with four more years on it. AND...the AD circled back to Whitesell during the hiring process (who came much cheaper that others), so no one is buying out his contract...only to have to pay someone else. Well...I guess they could, but that will require a donor (or donors) to do this, whose money could be better spent. Remember what the AD said at the time: "We are excited about the future of our men's basketball program under Jim Whitesell's leadership," said Alnutt. "I am pleased with the trajectory of the program and I look forward to working with Jim for many years to come." --- In other words, no new coach this year (or, I strongly suspect, next year, REGARDLESS of the record). --- Last year, after we lost in the finals, I thought that Whitesell would be fired (or retire) in three years. We just finished year one of that. I suspect the next two will be challenging and then, two years from now, we will start the search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, UB92 said: I think the likelihood of a new coach this upcoming season is the same as UB making the tournament this year as an at-large. Think about it: same president and same AD as when Whitesell was hired. They just gave him an extension this past summer through the 2025 season. Considering we just finished the 2021 season, that's a contract with four more years on it. AND...the AD circled back to Whitesell during the hiring process (who came much cheaper that others), so no one is buying out his contract...only to have to pay someone else. Well...I guess they could, but that will require a donor (or donors) to do this, whose money could be better spent. Remember what the AD said at the time: "We are excited about the future of our men's basketball program under Jim Whitesell's leadership," said Alnutt. "I am pleased with the trajectory of the program and I look forward to working with Jim for many years to come." --- In other words, no new coach this year (or, I strongly suspect, next year, REGARDLESS of the record). --- Last year, after we lost in the finals, I thought that Whitesell would be fired (or retire) in three years. We just finished year one of that. I suspect the next two will be challenging and then, two years from now, we will start the search. Hypothetical: If ub misses cleveland next year, you believe ub will come back with whitesell? We seem to be on the same page and curious your opinion but if they miss cleveland I can't see them bringing him back for a 3rd year. We talk about the oats momentum on this board. This thread and the amount of posters is demonstration of that. The momentum is still here but for how much longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Chet said: Skogman should be a double double machine next year. A player I'm excited to see how he develops over the off season Think he should have been used more this season personally. When he was aggressive he was a tough match up Also his defense improved dramatically over the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) There’s no way Whitesell is fired this off season. UB isn’t gonna pay him for 3 years not to coach the team and pay another coach to coach the team. To answer @Tee4threequestion…if we miss Cleveland, I think he’s a lame duck coach headed into the final season of his contract. I believe he’s under contract for 3 more seasons and UB has a cheap track record. Edited March 11, 2022 by DooleyBull06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB92 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, Tee4three said: Hypothetical: If ub misses cleveland next year, you believe ub will come back with whitesell? We seem to be on the same page and curious your opinion but if they miss cleveland I can't see them bringing him back for a 3rd year. We talk about the oats momentum on this board. This thread and the amount of posters is demonstration of that. The momentum is still here but for how much longer If UB misses Cleveland, it would be easy to justify keeping Whitesell if you are the AD. The cliches sort of write themselves: Last year graduated the players in top-4 in minutes There was always going to be an inevitable decline after a successful run Optimistic about the future (with Skogman and Jones...and whatever name you want to put in there) Really like some of the next guys we are recruiting. I mean, if you are the AD (and you hired Whitesell), he's your guy. UB ditched some sports because of money and have went the cheap route to hire Whitesell (he is in mid-pack in coaches salary in the MAC). Do you really think he would get fired from a poor year next year? If they are 12-18, it is easy for the AD to use any of the above cliches (or say "Whitesell has been head coach for four years and his record is 67 - 49...he has earned time to work through this." --- When Reggie was fired after going 14-20, that was on the heels of 4 straight winning seasons and two straight 20 win seasons. It took alot, I am sure, for White to do that and there was a lot of negative noise about this when it happened from RW supporters. Of course, we don't hear that anymore because of what Hurley and, ultimately, Oats did. --- Many years ago (starting in the 80s) I always hoped/wished for UB to make the tournament. Once it happened, they continued to win and it exceeded my expectations (and hopes). Heck...we were ranked! I loved those teams, especially the Oats' years. Sorry, I am nostalgic for that because I feel like we are going to slowly sink and it will take a while to get back to that again. It's hard to win. Bowling Green hasn't made it to the NCAA tournament since 1968. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skrabukes Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 17 minutes ago, UB92 said: If UB misses Cleveland, it would be easy to justify keeping Whitesell if you are the AD. The cliches sort of write themselves: Last year graduated the players in top-4 in minutes There was always going to be an inevitable decline after a successful run Optimistic about the future (with Skogman and Jones...and whatever name you want to put in there) Really like some of the next guys we are recruiting. I mean, if you are the AD (and you hired Whitesell), he's your guy. UB ditched some sports because of money and have went the cheap route to hire Whitesell (he is in mid-pack in coaches salary in the MAC). Do you really think he would get fired from a poor year next year? If they are 12-18, it is easy for the AD to use any of the above cliches (or say "Whitesell has been head coach for four years and his record is 67 - 49...he has earned time to work through this." --- When Reggie was fired after going 14-20, that was on the heels of 4 straight winning seasons and two straight 20 win seasons. It took alot, I am sure, for White to do that and there was a lot of negative noise about this when it happened from RW supporters. Of course, we don't hear that anymore because of what Hurley and, ultimately, Oats did. --- Many years ago (starting in the 80s) I always hoped/wished for UB to make the tournament. Once it happened, they continued to win and it exceeded my expectations (and hopes). Heck...we were ranked! I loved those teams, especially the Oats' years. Sorry, I am nostalgic for that because I feel like we are going to slowly sink and it will take a while to get back to that again. It's hard to win. Bowling Green hasn't made it to the NCAA tournament since 1968. I am not a fan of "if ub misses Cleveland" talks 1 day after a season ends, especially having absolutely zero idea what the roster looks like next year, but if that was to happen, removal would and should be on the table. What if UB wins Cleveland next year, do you give a raise and extension/ build a statue out front of alumni? Might as well ask that same question since we literally have no clue what next year may bring as of today. Might get transfers in, out, jucos, freshmen, other schools all have mass exodus. It's all on the table in the transfer portal era in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuchMany Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 4 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said: Totally agree. That list should be in their pocket at all times. That way they aren’t caught off guard. Which takes me to Oats…we knew he was gonna be a hot commodity and it seemed like we were unprepared for that. I'm sorry, but there is zero chance that Alnutt was caught off guard by Oats leaving or was unprepared without a list of potential candidates. Nothing in the way it all transpired would indicate that was the case. Plenty of potential names leaked, plenty of speculation occurred that "half our players could leave," and we went with an in house candidate after a process that took what, two weeks? Not sure where this legend bubbled up from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MuchMany said: I'm sorry, but there is zero chance that Alnutt was caught off guard by Oats leaving or was unprepared without a list of potential candidates. Nothing in the way it all transpired would indicate that was the case. Plenty of potential names leaked, plenty of speculation occurred that "half our players could leave," and we went with an in house candidate after a process that took what, two weeks? Not sure where this legend bubbled up from. I’ll let others handle this. I’m not privy to the nuisances of that search. But from an outside perspective there was a lot of confusion mismanagement of the situation whatever you wanna call it. If I recall…it wasn’t a smooth process. And I’m not saying we were unprepared but it seemed that way. Remember Oats had just gotten an extension. Maybe Alnutt thought he was gonna be around one more year, then bang Alabama stole him. And it seemed like the AD was left saying WTF. Edited March 12, 2022 by DooleyBull06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, skrabukes said: I am not a fan of "if ub misses Cleveland" talks 1 day after a season ends, especially having absolutely zero idea what the roster looks like next year, but if that was to happen, removal would and should be on the table. What if UB wins Cleveland next year, do you give a raise and extension/ build a statue out front of alumni? Might as well ask that same question since we literally have no clue what next year may bring as of today. Might get transfers in, out, jucos, freshmen, other schools all have mass exodus. It's all on the table in the transfer portal era in my eyes. Thats also valid question to ask especially with only a few years left on his deal If he wins the Mac, barring it being a 3 day run as an 8 seed. You definitely look to extend him in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB92 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 12 hours ago, Tee4three said: Thats also valid question to ask especially with only a few years left on his deal If he wins the Mac, barring it being a 3 day run as an 8 seed. You definitely look to extend him in my opinion He has four years left on his deal. If Whitesell wins the MAC next year (and there is a chance...I mean, the games have to be played), EVERYONE would welcome that. Here's the thing. The "we are waiting out the Whitesell era" crowd has an expanding bandwagon. The "Team Whitesell" camp has but a few members on this board now. However, EVERYONE (and I can't emphasize this enough, apparently) EVERYONE would be in support of Whitesell should they win the MAC next year and go to the NCAA (considering the impression at this moment). On that, there is no debate. Otherwise, why would anyone be here on a UBfan board? Everyone wants UB to win -- period. Those in the "Waiting out the Whitesell era", should UB win the tournament, will have to eat crow...and they will eat it gladly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB92 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 13 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said: I’ll let others handle this. I’m not privy to the nuisances of that search. But from an outside perspective there was a lot of confusion mismanagement of the situation whatever you wanna call it. If I recall…it wasn’t a smooth process. And I’m not saying we were unprepared but it seemed that way. Remember Oats had just gotten an extension. Maybe Alnutt thought he was gonna be around one more year, then bang Alabama stole him. And it seemed like the AD was left saying WTF. In reading what others have wrote and reading the articles before, during and after (and parsing his and others quotes), I get the impression that while Alnutt did have things he was thinking about (i.e. coaches), perhaps he was caught off guard a bit by the monetary constraints in hiring the new coach. That's where, it seems, things looked confused and, I think, the results (from Lanier and Whitesell) tend to point in this direction. I mean, Lanier was making $425,000 as an assistant at Tennessee. If he was leaving UT, it was going to be for more money. He signed at GaState for $575,000. Whitesell ultimately was signed for $300,000. I obviously don't know what the numbers/parameters were for the salary that Alnutt had in his head when Oats left, but maybe he didn't have as much as he thought he did. Remember...Oats signed that extension (3/14/19) right before he left...that Alnutt negotiated...for $837,000. That was $600,000 from UB funds and the rest they would raise externally. He left for Alabama two weeks later. Perhaps Alnutt felt he had the $600,000 in his pocket when the search started quickly, but he ultimately found out (from the President) that he had less than that...perhaps much less. And this is where the search went awry since it had to be done very quickly. I know nothing about what actually happened, but I think what I write here is plausible considering the time frame and my life experiences/some knowledge about things like this. So, DooleyBull06 (which, I assume, means a dual grad at Emory and UB), I believe you are right when you say that Alnutt thought he was going to be around one more year...since he just finished what was probably a high-stakes negotiation to keep Oats in the fold. And then Oats left. By the way, here is an old Alnutt interview from his days as AD at SEMO. https://www.southeastarrow.com/story/2160360.html 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 43 minutes ago, UB92 said: He has four years left on his deal. If Whitesell wins the MAC next year (and there is a chance...I mean, the games have to be played), EVERYONE would welcome that. Here's the thing. The "we are waiting out the Whitesell era" crowd has an expanding bandwagon. The "Team Whitesell" camp has but a few members on this board now. However, EVERYONE (and I can't emphasize this enough, apparently) EVERYONE would be in support of Whitesell should they win the MAC next year and go to the NCAA (considering the impression at this moment). On that, there is no debate. Otherwise, why would anyone be here on a UBfan board? Everyone wants UB to win -- period. Those in the "Waiting out the Whitesell era", should UB win the tournament, will have to eat crow...and they will eat it gladly. I know it was also a pay increase but I always interpreted his extension as giving him the "tools" to be able to recruit properly I hope the majority of topics are about extensions for whitesell at this time next season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 18 hours ago, MuchMany said: I'm sorry, but there is zero chance that Alnutt was caught off guard by Oats leaving or was unprepared without a list of potential candidates. Nothing in the way it all transpired would indicate that was the case. Plenty of potential names leaked, plenty of speculation occurred that "half our players could leave," and we went with an in house candidate after a process that took what, two weeks? Not sure where this legend bubbled up from. I can't say for sure, but it certainly seemed as if he caught off guard. We can put up a number on this and it's certainly not 0. We talked to him in person after the extension and he thought he got enough done for him to stay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 43 minutes ago, Kevin said: I can't say for sure, but it certainly seemed as if he caught off guard. We can put up a number on this and it's certainly not 0. We talked to him in person after the extension and he thought he got enough done for him to stay. Pure speculation on my part, but I don't think alnutt was caught off guard by oats. I think he was caught off guard by the guys also leaving with oats to Alabama. Imagine that the line of succession was in place everyone would be promoted and moved up. Then all of a sudden a few of the employees you were counting on were in alabama gear quickly Maybe it was the money that was offered to oats support staff here in buffalo that caught alnutt off guard Something threw alnutt off and made the whole process look very disorganized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
121Merrimac Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, Tee4three said: ... I think he was caught off guard by the guys also leaving with oats ... I think the program misses the mental health coach the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubbulls84 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Can we have Felisha coach the mens team also? Pay her Whitesell salary also lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 36 minutes ago, 121Merrimac said: I think the program misses the mental health coach the most. Then hire a new one. I know that’s a specific job but I don’t think it’s a bank buster. I agree a mental health coach is crucial to the younger generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB92 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 42 minutes ago, Ubbulls84 said: Can we have Felisha coach the mens team also? Pay her Whitesell salary also lol. I don't know if you said this in jest or not, but while there has been some non-D1 programs with female head coaches, this would make a big splash and is the type of out-of-the-box thinking that could keep her with UB. Certainly we can't compete with Syracuse on most other levels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, UB92 said: I don't know if you said this in jest or not, but while there has been some non-D1 programs with female head coaches, this would make a big splash and is the type of out-of-the-box thinking that could keep her with UB. Certainly we can't compete with Syracuse on most other levels. Legit question…outside of budget, conference, fan base and facilities (which I know accounts for a lot), when was the last time SU women’s basketball and football was relevant? I hear SU I think Boeheim, lacrosse and carrier dome. The rest is overrated. And yes Jim Brown and McNabb…ages ago. School is overrated. Shots fired. Rant over hehe. Edited March 12, 2022 by DooleyBull06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, UB92 said: I don't know if you said this in jest or not, but while there has been some non-D1 programs with female head coaches, this would make a big splash and is the type of out-of-the-box thinking that could keep her with UB. Certainly we can't compete with Syracuse on most other levels. I like the idea, its bold and kinda creative I don't watch enough of the womens team to know how she would do with the in game tactics But I know she would get guys to buy in and play hard. Also love that she genuinely seems to love ub and buffalo as a whole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasketBull Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 20 minutes ago, UB92 said: I don't know if you said this in jest or not, but while there has been some non-D1 programs with female head coaches, this would make a big splash and is the type of out-of-the-box thinking that could keep her with UB. Certainly we can't compete with Syracuse on most other levels. I honestly love the idea but don’t think it would ever come to pass for many reasons. FLJ is very supportive of the men’s coaching staff and I can’t envision her ever taking a position that would force them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
121Merrimac Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, DooleyBull06 said: … I hear SU I think Boeheim, … He lost a bit of cred when his son punched another player a couple days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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